Complainers

[Batya33]

My mom and I have a joke complaining session on my part reminiscent of when I was a child called "and then what happened??" as I list my woes - (which I list as mostly a joke -she knows) - so I agree with the sense of humor approach plus I can relate a lot to whether it involves the person complaining and hogging the conversation or stopping themselves with "ok, so enough about me -how are you??" and meaning it. And yes if that is every time that would get a bit old too just not as quickly!

[IAmFCA]

My mom and I have a joke complaining session on my part reminiscent of when I was a child called "and then what happened??" as I list my woes - (which I list as mostly a joke -she knows) - so I agree with the sense of humor approach plus I can relate a lot to whether it involves the person complaining and hogging the conversation or stopping themselves with "ok, so enough about me -how are you??" and meaning it. And yes if that is every time that would get a bit old too just not as quickly!

 

Fun idea! Celebrates your bond the whole time. :)

[Hollyj]

Depending on what the nature of the complaint is, and how close I am to that person, I tend to take space.

 

A friend of mine complains nearly constantly - about her boyfriend's mother, her boss, her landlords. Every time we meet, it's a b**ch session with her doing nearly all of the talking. Always about the same things, over and over. I was happy to listen to her vent, to a point. After a while, even after she asked for my suggestions and seemingly did little to rectify any of the issues, it just became irritating and boring to listen to. I have also pointed out to her that she seems stuck in a unnecessarily negative loop.

 

So now? We don't meet nearly as often. I can see her maybe once every couple or 3 months, and that's fine. That way, we can maintain the friendship without feeling like I'm just her dumping ground for her chaotic emotions.

 

I would think that people would want to change this annoying behavior, but I guess it is so ingrained it is a part of them.

 

The thing that makes it difficult is that the majority of the convo is not this messy stuffy, things are injected in, in bits. I am going to simply have a convo with her the next time this happens, as I don;t want to lose the friendship, and do think that she would try to pull back on this stuff. She may get her things resolved-I don't care-but at least I will not hear about it.

 

I can totally relate to the woman above,, as I used to have a friend who would whine about her bf, non stop. It was so exhausting, but this was a huge part of her. The friendship ended, as she was simply a user.

[Wiseman2]

I've noticed this in people with varying degrees of inertia and they seem to confuse talking with doing. They use a ton of conditional phrases 'should, need to, have to' etc. They are looking for attention or making excuses for whatever they think they "should" be doing. Stand way back. No engagement, no suggestions, not listening on and on, etc. Resolve to make their behavior and their chronic problems, inertia and shoulds something you are not invested in. Be indifferent to the gradient between what they say and what they do. They tend to think of people as a canvas on which to paint their inner conflicts. What a mess. lol.

[Batya33]

Fun idea! Celebrates your bond the whole time. :)

 

Yes- and also I am ok with self-aware people in general "Ok if I just vent for a minute?" Because most often people who say that understand it's a temporary reprieve from the typical give and take. Also I find that chronic complainers usually don't have actual crises - in fact my friends who do don't dwell on it and just forge ahead and indeed it can be hard to give them support since they seem so resilient.

 

I don't think people want to change as long as they have an audience for it.

[Hollyj]

Unfortunately it's so common a Johns Hopkins psychiatrist had to coin a phrase for it:

 

The Help Rejecting Complainer is a term coined by Jerome Frank, MD to describe a person who is so invested in being miserable and is evidently unable to pull him/herself out of the hole they are in and is also unwilling to let others help them out . If you have someone in your life who is a help rejecting complainer, you know first hand how exhausting it is to listen to multiple complaints, one after the other. When someone feels sorry for themselves all (or a lot) of the time and then refuses to accept advice or take new action steps, it is normal to feel frustrated and/or struggle to feel genuine empathy for them.

 

Tips on dealing with a help rejecting complainer:

 

1. Ask: “Do You Want My Opinion?” It might be uncomfortable at first, to be so direct. However, being honest is a great way to allow someone to know where they stand and also set boundaries for yourself. If what you said isn't well received, the help rejecting complainer will eventually realize you aren't aligned with their viewpoint and may move onto someone else.

 

2. Whatever you do, don’t tell them “It Isn't So Bad.” No one likes to be told that they are wrong. I have found that most help-rejecting people aren't trying to alienate or frustrate others. Likewise, they do truly feel stuck and alone in carrying their struggles. Pep talks don't work well for people who truly feel paralyzed by their circumstances. The best strategy is to express sympathy as best you can and try to make it as authentic as possible.

 

3. Recognize their feelings. Psychologist, Peter Fonagy, is one of a number of experts who have been looking at the importance of mirroring from others. According to him, in order to know what we feel, we need someone else to reflect/mirror our emotions back us . Being listened to and having our feelings validated by others can make us feel accepted and therefore can be very healing.

 

4. Set limits for yourself. While loving other people, it's also equally (if not more) important to remember to love and be kind to yourself. Set limits to how often you will listen to chronic complaints. Additionally, set boundaries on how you will be supportive. Ask yourself: Can I agree to listen without feeling obligated to solve others problems and/or offer advice?

 

5. Redirect the conversation. Is there a way you can change the conversation without making it obvious that you don't want to revisit the same complaint again? For so many of us complaining has become a habit. A simple redirect is sometimes all it takes to shift their mindset back on to something else. Example: “That's really annoying you had to work overtime without pay again. I can understand why you are exhausted today. Tell me again about your upcoming vacation? I need to also plan something soon.”

 

Thank you for the article, Wisey!

[Hollyj]

My mom and I have a joke complaining session on my part reminiscent of when I was a child called "and then what happened??" as I list my woes - (which I list as mostly a joke -she knows) - so I agree with the sense of humor approach plus I can relate a lot to whether it involves the person complaining and hogging the conversation or stopping themselves with "ok, so enough about me -how are you??" and meaning it. And yes if that is every time that would get a bit old too just not as quickly!

 

Great idea.

[Hollyj]

I've noticed this in people with varying degrees of inertia and they seem to confuse talking with doing. They use a ton of conditional phrases 'should, need to, have to' etc. They are looking for attention or making excuses for whatever they think they "should" be doing. Stand way back. No engagement, no suggestions, not listening on and on, etc. Resolve to make their behavior and their chronic problems, inertia and shoulds something you are not invested in. Be indifferent to the gradient between what they say and what they do. They tend to think of people as a canvas on which to paint their inner conflicts. What a mess. lol.

 

Yup, yup, yup! You get to a point where you don't give a crap about any of it. You're sitting there thinking, shut up already!

[Hollyj]

Yes- and also I am ok with self-aware people in general "Ok if I just vent for a minute?" Because most often people who say that understand it's a temporary reprieve from the typical give and take. Also I find that chronic complainers usually don't have actual crises - in fact my friends who do don't dwell on it and just forge ahead and indeed it can be hard to give them support since they seem so resilient.

 

I don't think people want to change as long as they have an audience for it.

 

Exactly, they are not crisis issues, or one could sympathize.

[catfeeder]

Not personal stuff.

 

I'll give an example: she has been talking about organizing the papers in her office for 1.5 years, but it never gets done- This is something that would take 1-2 days. Every time I see here the damn papers would come up as to how she has to get it done. Things of this nature.

 

"Since you've been telling me about these papers every time I see you, I'm offering two options. You can either let me know how I can help you do something about the papers, OR, you can avoid mentioning the subject with me until the day you would like to announce that you have resolved the paper issue. Then I'll take you to lunch, and we can celebrate."

[Hollyj]

"Since you've been telling me about these papers every time I see you, I'm offering two options. You can either let me know how I can help you do something about the papers, OR, you can avoid mentioning the subject with me until the day you would like to announce that you have resolved the paper issue. Then I'll take you to lunch, and we can celebrate."

 

LOL!

 

Actually, the paper issue had been resolved, as I told her I couldn't hear about it anymore- I had been hearing about it for 1.5 years. I would bet money that they still have not been dealt with :( Ugh! I was using it as an example, as it is similar to a lot of other situations. I like the idea of taking her out to celebrate when she gets one of these things resolved.

[catfeeder]

I like the idea of taking her out to celebrate when she gets one of these things resolved.

 

That's you're offering to sweeten the more important message: you can't mention it again until you've resolved it.

 

The other option offers support instead: tell me what I can do to help.

 

This offers an either/or choice: tell me how I can help you OR shut up and help yourself.

[Hollyj]

That's you're offering to sweeten the more important message: you can't mention it again until you've resolved it.

 

The other option offers support instead: tell me what I can do to help.

 

This offers an either/or choice: tell me how I can help you OR shut up and help yourself.

 

I have offered. She likes the advice but makes some excuse as to why it can't be done. The advice is never followed through on, as she really does not intend on doing these things. These are simple things that she has to do on her own. I can't be her parent and hold her hand. I can't make her work out and eat properly, I can't help her get rid of art so she can make more room in her apartment, i could't help her make a decision about a contractor- this took a year- I can't help her decide on where she wants to go in Japan. The list goes on.

 

The "shut up and help yourself is the best solution".

[Cherylyn]

A trick I've since learned is to steer the conversation in another direction should the chronic complainer start to complain again. I'll change the subject, ask them pleasant questions or throw them off track so they won't complain during the conversation anymore.

 

My mother complains about her heart wrenching childhood, nightmarish young adulthood and marriage made in hell. It's nothing I hadn't heard before ~ ever since I was 13 years old. She has repeated her same repetitive complaints millions of times during my lifetime. I know already. I'm sick 'n tired of it. Instead of admonishing her, I either simply change the subject abruptly or tell her, "I don't want to talk about it." Talking about it repeatedly is like beating a dead horse. It's an effort in futility. She has a good life, turned her life around by the sweat of her brow, became supremely content during her retirement yet every now and then she'll get that dark look in her eyes and here it comes. She'll rehash all the dead people who were so cruel to her when she was younger. I shut it down by simply letting her know, our conversation will not go there. We will not open that door. I feel bad that she gets depressed because no one can ever forget bad memories. I feel sorry for her due to her heavy baggage. She will take those haunted stories to her grave. All I can do is distract her with news about me, ask her for my childhood recipes and let her know that she has a lot to be grateful for nowadays. Usually, my strategy works and we hang up on a good, pleasant note. I focus on the positive in her life and give her uplifting news from my end. I ask her about her animals such as her dog, indoor cat, outdoor cats which she feeds and spays, her caged birds and the like. We'll discuss history, philosophy, human psychology and intellectual subjects, too. She is very wise and I ask her for advice frequently. Or, eventually she'll go off on a tangent and concentrate on various superficial topics. Whatever works.

 

A lot of people either can't make changes or simply refuse to stop repeating themselves. Either remain patient with them, be a good listener, be that shoulder to cry on, give moral support or try what I do with my mother. Be kind and careful though. If retorts are insensitive, in the worst case scenario, it could lead to estrangement which is not advisable.

 

As for my BFF, we complain to each other a lot and even apologize to each other for repeating our gripes or whatever is weighing heavy on our minds. We're close enough where we allow each other to vent, offer advice, give our opinions, input, comments and it's actually helpful. We even infuse intelligent humor in there, too. Also, new insights are always welcome from each person and when we part ways, we both learned something. It always helps to have a fresh pair of eyes for any situation just like on this forum. It helps to hear everyone's perspective. I'm grateful. Other opinions are something I hadn't heard before and it helps to see issues from a different lens or angle.

 

I try to cut chronic complainers a lot of slack because I'm a chronic complainer myself whenever I have troubles. In the past, it was money woes, it could be chronic aches 'n pains, relationship problems, bitterness, resentment, betrayal, deceit, being lied to, strained dynamics, holding grudges, retaliating in a passive aggressive manner, missing my Golden Retriever immeasurably after she passed away recently or coping with whatever is bothering me. Since others have been patient enough to hear me out more than once, I tend to return the same courtesy.

[Hollyj]

Thanks, Guys! I appreciate all of the amazing advice. I value the friendship, and for it to continue, I must be upfront re. the issue, or it will deteriorate. I think that it is best to be honest and upfront, and I would hope that a friend with do the same with me.

[Cherylyn]

It's good that your friend is receptive to your being upfront and honest. That's a good friend.

 

Some people can't be transparent with others and it creates WW3 due to different personality, characteristic traits and dynamics. However, I'm glad you can have a frank talk with your friend and she won't be offended. If there is mutual respect, then it's a sign of intelligence, high emotional intelligence (EQ), empathy and maturity from both parties and a win win situation. Unfortunately, some relationships require walking on egg shells.

 

I'm glad it will work out for you, though Hollyj.

[Hollyj]

A trick I've since learned is to steer the conversation in another direction should the chronic complainer start to complain again. I'll change the subject, ask them pleasant questions or throw them off track so they won't complain during the conversation anymore.

 

My mother complains about her heart wrenching childhood, nightmarish young adulthood and marriage made in hell. It's nothing I hadn't heard before ~ ever since I was 13 years old. She has repeated her same repetitive complaints millions of times during my lifetime. I know already. I'm sick 'n tired of it. Instead of admonishing her, I either simply change the subject abruptly or tell her, "I don't want to talk about it." Talking about it repeatedly is like beating a dead horse. It's an effort in futility. She has a good life, turned her life around by the sweat of her brow, became supremely content during her retirement yet every now and then she'll get that dark look in her eyes and here it comes. She'll rehash all the dead people who were so cruel to her when she was younger. I shut it down by simply letting her know, our conversation will not go there. We will not open that door. I feel bad that she gets depressed because no one can ever forget bad memories. I feel sorry for her due to her heavy baggage. She will take those haunted stories to her grave. All I can do is distract her with news about me, ask her for my childhood recipes and let her know that she has a lot to be grateful for nowadays. Usually, my strategy works and we hang up on a good, pleasant note. I focus on the positive in her life and give her uplifting news from my end. I ask her about her animals such as her dog, indoor cat, outdoor cats which she feeds and spays, her caged birds and the like. We'll discuss history, philosophy, human psychology and intellectual subjects, too. She is very wise and I ask her for advice frequently. Or, eventually she'll go off on a tangent and concentrate on various superficial topics. Whatever works.

 

A lot of people either can't make changes or simply refuse to stop repeating themselves. Either remain patient with them, be a good listener, be that shoulder to cry on, give moral support or try what I do with my mother. Be kind and careful though. If retorts are insensitive, in the worst case scenario, it could lead to estrangement which is not advisable.

 

As for my BFF, we complain to each other a lot and even apologize to each other for repeating our gripes or whatever is weighing heavy on our minds. We're close enough where we allow each other to vent, offer advice, give our opinions, input, comments and it's actually helpful. We even infuse intelligent humor in there, too. Also, new insights are always welcome from each person and when we part ways, we both learned something. It always helps to have a fresh pair of eyes for any situation just like on this forum. It helps to hear everyone's perspective. I'm grateful. Other opinions are something I hadn't heard before and it helps to see issues from a different lens or angle.

 

 

I try to cut chronic complainers a lot of slack because I'm a chronic complainer myself whenever I have troubles. In the past, it was money woes, it could be chronic aches 'n pains, relationship problems, bitterness, resentment, betrayal, deceit, being lied to, strained dynamics, holding grudges, retaliating in a passive aggressive manner, missing my Golden Retriever immeasurably after she passed away recently or coping with whatever is bothering me. Since others have been patient enough to hear me out more than once, I tend to return the same courtesy.

 

Did your mother seek any counseling? She is lucky to have you!

[Cherylyn]

Hollyj, Ha! I've been her counselor for decades and no, she will not seek professional counseling in a million years. That ship has sailed long ago. She's a very private person despite a professional counselor's strict code of confidence. Thank you for the kind words about my being a daughter to her. I've since honed my skills and had a lot of practice from trial and error!

[catfeeder]

I have offered. She likes the advice but makes some excuse as to why it can't be done. The advice is never followed through on, as she really does not intend on doing these things. These are simple things that she has to do on her own. I can't be her parent and hold her hand. I can't make her work out and eat properly, I can't help her get rid of art so she can make more room in her apartment, i could't help her make a decision about a contractor- this took a year- I can't help her decide on where she wants to go in Japan. The list goes on.

 

The "shut up and help yourself is the best solution".

 

The point is not that you're offering help because you're invested in her taking it. You're presenting a kind way to frame the statement that you really want to make, "shut up and help yourself,' by sandwiching it between an illusion of 2 choices.

 

The same technique that helps to raise healthy children by offering a choice between 2 options gives you ownership of the situation with adults as well. It's essentially getting another to believe that the limits you impose are THEIR choice, because when they won't take you up on your offer to help them, their fallback behavior is removed from the equation while they accept the potential of an eventual reward--being treated to celebrate--instead.

 

Skip breaking the sandwich down into literal parts, and present it instead as the whole meal. It addresses numerous psychological components that will preserve your relationship while getting YOUR needs met.

 

EnjOy!

[catfeeder]

A trick I've since learned is to steer the conversation in another direction should the chronic complainer start to complain again. I'll change the subject, ask them pleasant questions or throw them off track so they won't complain during the conversation anymore.

 

Yes, this is a terrific technique. You can play the scatterbrain that's just distracted by another topic that's popped into your head--time and time again. Dr. Joy Browne called this method, 'stupid and cheerful,' and she claimed it's 'like Teflon' because everything rolls right off of it and nothing can penetrate it.

[SarahLancaster]

My biggest issue with a friend is her non stop talking, jumping from one topic to another. No one can get a word in edge-wise. If you manage to get the floor for one second, she immediately steers it back to her narrative.

 

Other than that she's a lovely person.

[Hollyj]

The point is not that you're offering help because you're invested in her taking it. You're presenting a kind way to frame the statement that you really want to make, "shut up and help yourself,' by sandwiching it between an illusion of 2 choices.

 

The same technique that helps to raise healthy children by offering a choice between 2 options gives you ownership of the situation with adults as well. It's essentially getting another to believe that the limits you impose are THEIR choice, because when they won't take you up on your offer to help them, their fallback behavior is removed from the equation while they accept the potential of an eventual reward--being treated to celebrate--instead.

 

Skip breaking the sandwich down into literal parts, and present it instead as the whole meal. It addresses numerous psychological components that will preserve your relationship while getting YOUR needs met.

 

EnjOy!

 

The thing is, is that I have offered to help and she has declined. She has also asked my advice and not followed through. I am tired of all of this, as I have been going down this road with her for some time. The sandwich has to be broken up, I no longer have the patience..

 

Plus, these are things that I cannot help her with. This is a one person job. These are not complex things. This is what makes it so frustrating!

 

I can always just change the subject. Jesus, if I were doing this to my friends, I would want to know.

[Hollyj]

My biggest issue with a friend is her non stop talking, jumping from one topic to another. No one can get a word in edge-wise. If you manage to get the floor for one second, she immediately steers it back to her narrative.

 

Other than that she's a lovely person.

 

Yikes. That is not good.

 

Are you being facetious?

[Wiseman2]

People whose coping style is being passive-aggressive are masters of frustration, procrastination and no-win situations. When someone offers help, a suggestion or a solution it's the perfect opportunity for them to do their favorite things. Reject and frustrate. They feel "in control" by doing this. This is why taking the bait and entertaining their rhetorical questions or chronic complaints is a poor investment of time and energy. Complete indifference is the best way to handle them.

The thing is, is that I have offered to help and she has declined. She has also asked my advice and not followed through.

 

This is what makes it so frustrating!

[SarahLancaster]

Yikes. That is not good.

 

Are you being facetious?

 

Not at all. Don't you know any non-stop talkers?