Men and marriage proposals-does it really matter?

[PAdreamer]

No man is going to be completely perfect. All of them will have SOME aspect of who they are that doesn't exactly sit well with us. You have to ask yourself if that flaw is worth throwing away your relationship over.

[Mun]

Sadgirl, what you do is remind yourself the kind of man that you want, and if he is not it... you walk away. I don't think anyone should settle for "accepting" something that is not making you happy. I understand that sometimes we have invested to so much it is hard to let go, but wouldn't it be better to cut your losses and move on than to spend years with someone who is not right for you-- Making excuses to yourself and others about his behavior.

 

Luciana, I'm concerned about the things you say that your man doesn't want to be whooped and such. It makes me wonder if he will always be afraid of being taken for a ride and will never be a generous partner--with his heart or otherwise. I picture he will want all things split right down the middle--to protect himself. He will be afraid to be vulnerable to you, so will always be "closed off"

 

 

"Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly."~~Rose Franken

[Mun]

I should add that while nobody is perfect, are those things that bother you minor things that you can live with... or huge things that are dealbreakers?

If he is a great guy who treats you wonderfully, then who cares if he talks when he eats, or bites his fingernails sometimes? Unless those are things you cannot live with .

[PAdreamer]

Exactly.

[Luciana]

"I have a couple questions for you - what were YOUR parents like? Were they close, affectionate, showed their love openly?"

 

RayKay, my parents are a "terrible" example for me

They've been very happily married for 45 years My father is very affectionate with my mother, calling her pet names and vice versa. They have a playful and flirty way of talking to each other that is rare in couples who are 70 years old. They do everything together and miss each other terribly when apart. They hold hands when they walk. If one dies I think the other will not last long.

 

So there you go. I am spoiled, and I do believe your parents marriage affects your expectations of what a relationship should be like.

[Luciana]

Because of this thread and the proposal issue, I yesterday (maybe I was bored) asked my fiance how he proposed to his first wife. I know from him that he was madly in love with her and did everything for her. She was unfaithful twice and broke his heart and left him.

 

When I told him I would love to know how and where he proposed, he became very defensive and told me it's none of my business.

 

I know it is not, but it would shed some light in our relationship. And maybe the reason he can't tell me is because it may have been a thoughtful, planned and romantic proposal.

 

Just makes me sad. I feel like second best. I am paying for someone else's mistakes. Just because she betrayed him and broke his heart he now doesn't want to do it all again.

 

He agreed to talk to my therapist, who specializes in second marriages. But so far she has not opened her mouth; I do all the talking. I get more feedback from this website.

[RayKay]

See, I don't think you are spoiled at all, I think you were fortunate to see that such great things DO exist, my mother and stepfather are much the same way. There are many people who get into abusive, emotionally vacant, painful relationships and stay in them because that is what they grew up with, and they don't believe that there is anything better out there. So I am curious then as to why you seem to settle for less in your own relationships!

 

I know seeing my mom and stepfather together has spoiled me as well in a sense (having seen what my real father did to my mother showed me what I DON'T want - he cheated on her a few times and left her while she was pregnant with my sister, etc) but you know, in the end I found exactly what I wanted - a true partnership, true love, respect, and I don't feel second best as you do, not ever, even though he has been in love before/lived with someone before, etc. I have no doubt that I am the one he was looking for all along. He has even told me he always knew I was out there somewhere, and is very very fortunate to have found me

[shes2smart]

Just makes me sad. I feel like second best. I am paying for someone else's mistakes. Just because she betrayed him and broke his heart he now doesn't want to do it all again.

 

As a veteran of several "ignore me more & I'll try harder" feeling-second-best relationships, I feel for you. After lots of therapy, it occurred to me I sought that type of situation out because it was the way my parents treated me. Their relationship was/is no great shakes either. When I was in grade school, I used to wish they'd get divorced because they were/are both clearly miserable.

 

So, how'd I wind up with a guy who treats me like I'm the center of his world?

 

Therapy. Lots and lots of therapy. Reading lots of books about relationships. Reading lots of books about conscious creation of one's reality. And a little sheer dumb luck.

 

One of those pithy sayings I am so fond of collecting came to mind as I've been following this thread.

 

Don't marry the one you can live with....marry the one you can't live without.

[RayKay]

 

One of those pithy sayings I am so fond of collecting came to mind as I've been following this thread.

 

Don't marry the one you can live with....marry the one you can't live without.

 

I beat you to it on a post I put on the last page! LOL. But great minds think alike and all that...

[shes2smart]

 

One of those pithy sayings I am so fond of collecting came to mind as I've been following this thread.

 

Don't marry the one you can live with....marry the one you can't live without.

 

I beat you to it on a post I put on the last page! LOL. But great minds think alike and all that...

 

LOL...Truth is truth is truth.....

[Beec]

OK, here's the question. What do you want Luciana?

 

I don't think you are seeking to get him to rescind the proposal and ask you again in a more romantic, but possibly contrived manner. Unless you want to get rid of him and seek someone else, I don't see that as a real option. And if you pushed for it and I were in his shoes, I'd be angry. He did what he did and you are engaged, and you don't seem to want any different than that. You cannot change what has occurred to date.

 

So what do you want? What do you want to happen from here forward and how are you going to get it.

 

Well, I think you want him to be a bit more, or maybe just be a little, romantic from time to time. So, how do you get it? How do you get it and get him to make you feel the way you want to feel?

[Luciana]

I have no clue Beec! None.

 

No, it's too late for the proposal. It would be a nice surprise if he did decide to propose again...after all, he never asked me to marry me. He did not say the famous words. But that will only happen when cows start talking.

 

I am counting on my therapist helping me with this one. He is blocked. I know he loves me but he just can't show it. That's why I think it has to be linked to the profound hurt his ex-wife caused him. He closed himself.

 

Maybe my experience can show other guys that you don't have to invest in an incredible proposal (it's not a onemanship), but do it with feeling. One nice thing to do it take her to the spot you two first met and slip it in her finger, look into her eyes and ask the question. Many simple romantic ideas. No need to go down on your feet or to spend loads of money.

 

As for making him more romantic, I know this is an impossible task. I noticed that more feminine guys (not gay, just more artsy and feminine) are better at that. Guys who like art, movies, fashion, museums, ballet, dance, etc). My guy is the ultimate man's man. It's all about engines and cars and tech toys and boats and cell phones. I can be wearing Target or Prada that he sees no difference.

 

Still, I know that even the macho types can say "hi honey" on the phone. Or say "I love you" in important moments. Or say "Will you marry me".

So I got myself a defective guy. Beec, there is no hope. I have talked to gim many times about this, about how I feel, I have even cried about it.

 

Do you know what the solution would be? If he lost me. If I met a man I really liked and said those things to me. Then my fiance would probably realize that he should have paid attention to these things.

 

Or maybe I will NEVER be the woman of his dreams. Maybe deep down the only woman who could make him melt was the ex-wife. The one who got the nice proposal (can't be sure of that, but he refused to tell me how it went-so I guess it was nicer than mine).

[Beec]

Luciana,

 

I think one of the things you need to see is that you got him because you need less romance than some women. And you must be getting something because you know he loves you, which means he must show it somehow.

 

But if you need less, you also need to realize that you let him give you less. When you expected it and got nothing, he got away with giving you nothing. Boyfriends, girlfriends, spouses, fiances, etc. all are in some ways like children. They will test your bounds and do only that which they need to do and get away with what they can get away with. So, in large part, you created the problem.

 

But you can change it, gradually, and maybe just a little. People can modify their behaviors. Maybe it is training him like Pavlov's dogs, but it can happen. You just need to make him chase you now and them and find the right triggers and reward him well when he gives you something.

[Luciana]

How can you make a guy chase you when you live with him? I already have my plate full: work all day, work out every evening, read, I don't get in his way much.

 

I do not believe in the technique some women have of refusing sex to a man to get what they want. I tried that once with him and I get too horny-I just can't live without touch myself.

 

Not be affectionate and not call him honey? He couldn't care less. He is very independent and prefers to do stuff without me anyway. He is the type of man who does not need a woman. He has an interesting life without me. Lot's of toys, money now, interests.

 

So I am the weak spot in this relationship. He has more money and thereforeeee more power. The only thing I have better than him is that I am good looking, tall, fit and sexy, educated and cultivated, while he is short, has a belly and is not an attractive or refined man. Believe me, I have always had lines of men after me.

 

I have a government job which is safe but not exciting. It is difficult for me to make my life more exciting, since I don't have the money. And I sincerely like to be with him. I don't need to be jumpring from airplanes or climbing Mount Everest to have fun or look more exciting for a man.

 

So how do I make him WANT to be more romantic.....a big mystery. Somehow his ex wife was able to. So he is capable of. But I am second best...

[CarrieB123]

I don't need to be jumpring from airplanes or climbing Mount Everest to have fun or look more exciting for a man.

 

I agree with that statement... and I also think that "becoming" someone else to be more exciting for a partner is a mistake. They fell in love with you for a reason, because you were you. And I think after being with the same person for a long time things tend to become less exciting for both partners, it doesn't mean the love is gone, its just changed.

 

Have you two ever had a "break" in the relationship to see what else is out there, and do you think that's a possibility? And if it is would you be interested in that?

[Beec]

First, you need to realize what he does get from you. It's more than sex.

 

If you really wanted to do something little to make him feel special, what would it be? Attention, probably.

 

If you want him to chase, then you give it, give it, give it, withdraw it. When you withdraw what he wants, he will come looking for it.

[annie24]

Hi - Hmmm...

 

So I am the weak spot in this relationship. He has more money and thereforeeee more power. The only thing I have better than him is that I am good looking, tall, fit and sexy, educated and cultivated, while he is short, has a belly and is not an attractive or refined man. Believe me, I have always had lines of men after me.

 

I dunno if you can make him more romantic. It kinda sounds like he is who he is. I can't help but wonder from you above statement if perhaps you wouldn't be more suited with another handsome, exciting, refined man who is a tad more affectionate.

 

It sounds like on the romance scale, your man is a 0, while the Argentinian doctor who proposed on the bridge in paris is a 10. It sounds to me like you're looking for someone in between, not necessarily a 9 or a 10, but at least a 3 or 4.

 

I think Shes2smart brought up a very interesting point. Like you said, you've always had men waiting in line for you. What if you get married, get more bored than you already are with your man, and then you will meet some handsome, sexy, romantic man who will whisk you off your feet. And you will be stuck in the marriage. I think it's only a matter of time before you meet someone more romantic, and you may be greatly tempted....

 

On another note, perhaps you should ask your therapist to start talking.... After all, you're paying him a lot - tell him you'd like to hear a few words out of his mouth....

 

When I used to get my nails done, the ladies at the salon were my therapists. For $25 an hour, they would tell me EVERYTHING and even more than I wanted to hear. I think that they're just as qualified to deal with love situations, probably even more so than a therapist.

[DN]

There was a line in 'Notting Hill' where a guy said something like "It's pretty amazing when anybody says they want to be with you."

 

It's ironic to me that there are many people who have posted on here desperate for a boyfriend or girlfriend at all because they are so lonely, and sad. There are also people who would kill for any sort of proposal because they love someone who doesn't love them back and they are frightened of a life alone.

 

And this is such a long thread because a proposal wasn't romantic enough.

[Luciana]

Hi Annie, I laughed with your last post. Funny.

 

When men cheat, it is usually for sex, when women cheat, it is usually for attention.

 

So you are right. I haven't met anyone in the last 6 years who was able to divert the attention from my BF, but who know what can happen in the future..

This is a lesson to all men who think they can treat their GF's as sisters or roomates after a while. Women crave some romance, some more than others.

[annie24]

I dunno if I agree with you DN. I think that part of the reason that the divorce rate is so high is that some people settle for something that doesn't feel quite right.

 

I think that we should look to a higher degree of compatibility. Something more than just, oh this man wants me, I should stay with him.

 

I think that we all agree that two people will never be 100% compatible, but it seems like the issue that we are dealing with now is what do you issues do you set aside, and which are the dealbreakers?

 

What is a deal-breaker for me may not be a deal-breaker for someone else. I don't think that the issue is anymore the proposal. I think now this debate has morphed into 'how much romance do you need?' I think this is different for everyone.

[annie24]

Luciana - your story kinda reminded me of this guy I dated when I was 18. To make a very long, convoluted story short, we dated for 4 months, but he was very distant and showed me very little affection. We were best friends in high school, but once we started dating, things went downhill. Furthermore, I always suspected that he was cheating on me. But, even worse, I've never felt so neglected before in my life. So, I finally broke things off with him.

 

I moved away to college, 3 years later, out of the blue, I get a call from him, like "you were the best gf I've ever had, I'm in love with you, I need you back" blah blah blah. Then, he started sending the romantic cards and the flowers and the teddy bears and etc...

 

And it upset me, because when we first dated, I just figured that he wasn't the romantic type, but then 3 years later, when he tried to get me back, it just upset me even more, because I saw that he WAS capable of those feelings and actions - but he chose not to do them with me the first time around.

 

I asked him if he cheated on me, and he said, "umm... can we talk about this later?" Long story short, I told him I never wanted to speak to him again. Once my trust is broken, I can never trust them again.

 

So, that's my story. He was capable of being romantic, just didn't do it with me while we were dating. I guess he needed to chase me to be romantic, but the bottom line is, I want nothing to do with him.

[CarrieB123]

The divorce rate is so high, not because of settling, but because of everyone's expectations being so high, and when ppl say "til death do us part" what they really mean "until I get board, there's always divorce" ppl expect that everyday of their marriage is going to bring them bliss, romance and perfection.

 

We never get to see what happens to Cinderella and the prince because that's not exciting enough, we don't see Prince Charming strolling around in his boxers scratching himself or Cinderella's with a mud mask on. My belief is that ppl who stay married for 50 years do it not because everyday is like their honeymoon, and not because their partner blows there mind in everyway, but because of respect and companionship!

 

And if you've got those two things you are luckier than most.

[DN]

I dunno if I agree with you DN. I think that part of the reason that the divorce rate is so high is that some people settle for something that doesn't feel quite right.

 

I think that we should look to a higher degree of compatibility. Something more than just, oh this man wants me, I should stay with him.

 

.

 

I agree with that. My point is that I think the romance thing can get way out of proportion and people want something from a Harlequin book and their expectations get overblown. It is important to make your partner feel important, of course, but lets also see what is important.

 

The mere fact that someone loves you enough to want to spend the rest of their life with you is romantic.

 

The fact that thy chose you from millions of other people is romantic.

 

The fact that they put up with your irritating little habits is romantic.

 

The fact that they worry when you are late is romantic.

 

The fact they are lonely when you are not there is romantic.

 

The fact that they want to have kids with you is romantic.

 

The fact that they want to show you off to their friends and family is romantic.

 

The fact that you put a smile on their face when they see you is romantic.

 

The fact that they put up with your friends and family is romantic.

 

The fact that they do things for you is romantic.

 

The fact that they forgive you is romantic.

 

The fact that they let you win an argument, or at least, get over an argument with you, is romantic.

 

All these things may be prosaic, seemingly everyday things. But they say, over and over again, every day of your lives together:

 

"I love you".

 

Isn't that romantic.

[DN]

 

When men cheat, it is usually for sex, when women cheat, it is usually for attention.

 

.

 

With respect I think that very sexist. It's essentially saying men cheat because they are bad and women cheat because their men are bad.

[CarrieB123]

=D> DN