Who is right? Dispute about health and travel

[ThatwasThen]

We don’t have any evidence that SIL is sick or anything of that ilk so I’m not sure why we are even discussing such scenarios.

 

Yes. I also wonder how things ended up and if they were able come to a suitable compromises and if op is getting to the bottom of why she can’t sleep.

[Batya33]

We don’t have any evidence that SIL is sick or anything of that ilk so I’m not sure why we are even discussing such scenarios.

 

Yes. I also wonder how things ended up and if they were able come to a suitable compromises and if op is getting to the bottom of why she can’t sleep.

 

Never said there was- advised to check with SIL whether she is vaccinated. And many people catch things on planes.

 

I hope she does resolve this -what a nightmare.

[Seraphim]

I never asked my family members their vax status. If the child is vaccinated they are fine. I took my child everywhere. He was held by all 35 people at his baby shower. I didn’t run around asking if they were sick or vaccinated. And in Canada if you were born before 1970 you are considered immune to mumps, measles and rubella. They said you either had the disease or been exposed to it so many times it doesn’t matter . I just went through all this because I work in a daycare .

Would say most adult born and raised in North Americans are probably vaccinated .

[Batya33]

I never asked my family members their vax status. If the child is vaccinated they are fine. I took my child everywhere. He was held by all 35 people at his baby shower. I didn’t run around asking if they were sick or vaccinated. And in Canada if you were born before 1970 you are considered immune to mumps, measles and rubella. They said you either had the disease or been exposed to it so many times it doesn’t matter . I just went through all this because I work in a daycare .

Would say most adult born and raised in North Americans are probably vaccinated .

 

Not where I live - lots of unvaccinated people. So yes I've asked as appropriate. My baby was born during the H1N1 flu scare and only immediate family was allowed to hold him the first 5 months. His first mild cold was at 8 months old. First fever closer to 2 years old. I didn't "run around" -I simply was aware of who had direct contact with my baby or in my home and kept him out of situations where he was in close contact with sick people or unvaccinated people. I wasn't always the most popular in asking that question or having people remove shoes etc but my child's health was my priority, not accommodating people's desires to hold the baby "I just want to touch his foot!", etc. Many ways to interact with a baby without being in close contact -and my young son who loves babies knows this too.

 

And yes going back to the OP it's great if the SIL wants to interact with the baby and I'd take those safeguards. With her insomnia she doesn't need to be worrying about exposing the baby to illness.

[Seraphim]

Well, I wasn’t “ exposing him to illness “ and not making his health not a priority I just know the majority of people here are vaccinated especially my age group. And kids get colds it is a fact of life. I am not saying drag everybody with the plague into your home but people get sick.

[journeynow]

The OP has left the building. I wonder how it was actually handled. Such a stressful situation....:icon_sad:chi

 

I hope she is sleeping a good rejuvenating sleep! It's horrible to be chronically sleep deprived.

[Batya33]

Well, I wasn’t “ exposing him to illness “ and not making his health not a priority I just know the majority of people here are vaccinated especially my age group. And kids get colds it is a fact of life. I am not saying drag everybody with the plague into your home but people get sick.

 

I never suggested you were! I was just saying what I did not what you should do - I have no judgment or opinion on your choices. You implied I was somehow running around telling people what to do. That wasn't what I did- no reason to do that. Colds are fine and I'm not going to expose a baby to someone with a cold intentionally. My child is exposed to colds every day at school and he often has the sniffles. Different with infant/baby especially if you don't know if it's just a cold. We've got a flu epidemic around here. Often that illness starts with respiratory symptoms. People who visit and have traveled by plane often arrive sick or getting sick.

[ThatwasThen]

You Hoo, Opeeeeeeee!

 

Where are you? Are you feeling a little less put-upon by your husbands request that you don't go to your mother's while leaving your baby behind for him to care for? Have you and he come up with a solution? Have you contacted your doctor about a stay in a sleep lab to help figure out what's going on with you? Or, are you still just feeling like he should be happy you're leaving and continuing to feel even more tired because he's not on board with you going? Is your sister in law there now?

[boltnrun]

OP is here somewhere because she's responding on other threads.

 

I too am curious about what was decided.

[tiredofvampires]

Holy sheet. Looks like I've gotten to this thread too late -- OP, I hope you're still checking in.

 

But even if you're not, I have to say something. I haven't read all the posts, but the ones I have, and I've skimmed well through the read, leave my jaw gaping. MY blood pressure just shot up reading these things.

 

This thread is SHOCKING, for the posts here that are:

 

1. Defending the husband for ANYthing in this scenario -- his actions are utterly selfish and condemnable.

 

2. Telling the OP to get therapy -- she is anxious because she can't sleep, not the other way around!!

 

3. Suggesting that this is postpartum depression or some other mental disorder.

 

4. Putting social niceties and obligations above a health imperative/crisis.

 

5. Insinuating that she somehow inconsiderately "planned" this trip away to be at her mom's at a "bad time", and that if she's that tired, she should check herself into a hospital -- does anyone believe that the OP can be both too tired to function, but well enough just to be able to drive to a relative's quiet, peaceful, familiar house for respite, instead of going to a place (the hospital) where they are CONSTANTLY WAKING YOU UP AND DISRUPTING YOUR SLEEP, AND THERE IS NOISE AND COMMOTION??

 

6. Telling the OP to get a sleep study when we already know the diagnosis: she HAS A SLEEP DISORDER, aka CHRONIC SLEEP LOSS INDUCED BY MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL CHANGES, AND here is the Rx: HAVING A BREATHER OF TIME TO GET HER BODY BACK INTO RHYTHM! A sleep study isn't going to tell her jack you-know-what, except that she's not sleeping (she's not being evaluated for sleep apnea, narcolepsy, etc.), and the only answer will be sleep medications, so this is useless.

 

7. Suggesting that baseline sleep hygiene measures, designed for the average person, like turning off electronics, sleep environment, etc. is going to remotely cut it.

 

To the OP (and anyone else who cares to listen):

 

My younger sister had her first (and only) child 10 years ago. Her pregnancy AND delivery were hard on her. Then, once born, her baby developed severe colic, and couldn't stop screaming. It was the usual wakings of a new baby x1000. Consequently, she went from being a normal sleeper to having a severe sleep disorder, where her body simply wouldn't let her sleep. Even when she lay down to sleep, the littlest thing would cause some internal alarm to go off and she was wide awake again. She reported that as soon as she was falling into a sleepy mode, it was almost like a vicious cycle where her body told her "wake up" and it was as if something were shocking her awake. Like a completely viscerally-mediated, internal, automatic switch being tripped. It was an absolute nightmare. You would think the body would somehow have a safety shut-off mechanism forcing a person to go to sleep, but no. Her body kept jerking her awake to the point that she started to have severe heart palpitations, she was losing tons of weight, and finally, she had to go to a psychiatrist by train (she was in a foreign country, and she feels that alone contributed the most to it: that she was displaced from all that she knew) and got a prescription for a type of anti-depressant that induces sleep. It wasn't so much for the depression aspect of the medication but the hypnotic effect, and that it causes weight gain, which she needed. I visited her at this time, and she was at the brink of a nervous breakdown, if not there.

 

Sleep deprivation is a known torture method. The OP has undergone more sleep deprivation than happens in a short-term sleep deprivation torture situation.

 

Sleep deprivation is considered to be the most rigorous of the Navy Seals training exercises. If you don't make it to Seal status, it's most likely that you've failed the sleep deprivation portion. NAVY SEALS, people.

 

Episodic sleep deprivation in labs has turned college athletes into arthritic invalids.

 

The body can do without air for about 5 minutes, max.

 

After 3 days of no sleep, death occurs. Thanks to my doctor for that bit of trivia factoid. Next to air, the body needs sleep the most urgently of all needs.

 

Hallucinations and insanity and immune system breakdown occur at half that length of time. Good time to be talking politely and congenially to the in-laws, is it, about how one is a little under the weather and needs a little nappie?

 

Pregnancy and related hormones are known notorious disruptors of sleep.

 

So, what is the upshot of all this?

 

It seems that the people writing on this thread that the husband has a point have never been so sleep deprived that they felt their lives were in danger, that they were losing their mind and body -- which is exactly what is happening because sleep loss is such a serious assault on the body. You've never had more than a garden variety postpartum phase like every other mom if you think this is livable, let alone something you can negotiate around for the sake of relatives. If you are a man and think this thread is about misplaced "feminism" because the OP's condition is being linked to the shoddy treatment many women's health issues are subject to, then heads-up, this is about a physiological insider reality that you are apparently ignorant about, not politics. And you also have not dealt with sleep loss so serious that your basic functioning is crumbling.

 

Newsflash: you cannot get your body back on track with sleep if you know that there are guests, babies, and commotion to attend to. The whole thing about sleep is that you need to allow your body to let go of other people's needs, and this can't be the focus if you're having a selfish husband, an infant, and a sister-in-law who you've never met before in your house. The wakefulness reaction is entirely automatic, it's not under your control once your brain has become this hypervigilant. And the only solution is to not give it anything external to have to attend to. You'd have to become lobotomized to "forget" that you have a guest in the other room, and a husband and baby always there needing you in some way. This is NOT conducive to regaining a sleep cycle, and the OP's intuition is not being supported at all here!

 

Women should be encouraged to listen to their bodies and their bodies' needs, and instead, a chorus of people here are framing that as somehow self-indulgent, socially irresponsible, making excuses, and standing on some "feminist" soapbox!

 

If the OP feels that she can't function but to drive herself another four hours to a safe place, that is what people should be supporting as a get-away strategy to manage an emergency, not telling her what she can and cannot do, as if she is either well enough to carry on, or check herself into ER. Doesn't she have the ability to make the judgment call that it's neither of those, but rather, her plan is the best one because she knows that's where she'll rest best? Isn't she in her own body to know what she can and can't handle with driving, since she is quite aware of her symptoms and what they feel like?

 

What happened to affirming what people know about their own bodies?

 

EGADS.

 

So, what happened to my sister? Well, the medication saved her life. She didn't need a hospital and nor would that have been helpful, for the reasons named above. She didn't need a sleep study, because you don't need a study to figure out what kind of sleep you are missing and why when it's plainly obvious. You can't test hormonal imbalance either with a sleep lab. So my sister did none of the things. And she continued to take the medication, and another couple as well (a benzodiazepine and beta blocker, for the heart palpitations). Her complaints that her body "just wouldn't LET her sleep" eventually decreased, but it took YEARS, and to this day, she is not the same person at night. She will not have stimulating conversations at night, even good/fun ones. She still freaks out when guests come over to stay, and I, myself, am not welcome any longer than 2 weeks. I used to be able to stay as long as I wanted. Bedtime is still a subject of ritualistic care and concern, with her meds, now greatly reduced but not eliminated, at her bedside. She feels permanently changed by the experience. She was never a totally carefree person. But nor did she have an anxiety disorder, and now she does. And what broke her was the sleep loss, she didn't get the problems she suffers from as a result of pre-existing anxiety. And, not saying this will happen to you, OP, but all of this was the reason she didn't have a second child, which she deeply wanted. She was so destabilized from that shock to her body, that continuing to be on medications, even a little, worried her about another pregnancy. To this day, she mourns this whole stream of events, all caused by an internal clock gone haywire.

 

And, I know what this is like because I take a nightly sleep medication, myself. My problems go back much further, and are deeply rooted in earlier traumas in my life. But what I do know is that when you don't have sleep, you don't have a life. AND IT CHANGES THE WAY YOUR BRAIN WORKS. You can't breathe, think, move, articulate, socialize, eat, or do anything a person does to look and act halfway decent. For anyone to suggest that her husband has the slightest leg to stand on here, however long he's planned his sister's arrival, is stunning, if for no other reason than his wife is SUFFERING, AND THAT TAKES PRIORITY OVER A SISTER'S VISIT!

 

Furthermore, she offered for her mom to take care of the baby so she COULD be there. Well, he balked at that, saying he didn't think she could handle taking care of their child. But, he would not agree to her compromise, either: that SHE be the one to go to her mother's. Look, if the guy won't allow grandma to take care of a child (how many grandmas throughout history have done childcare?), and he feels he can't take care of their baby solo, I question his ability to be a decent father and husband. That is INDECENT behavior.

 

OP, I am not sure if this marriage is all that it should be, to tell you the truth. This to me is a violation of the marriage vows, for him to care for you in sickness and health. He should be SENDING you to your mother's house, hoping it will help you, and telling his sister exactly why this needs to be done! You are sick now, and part of taking care of you is listening to what YOU think you need to get well, not what he wants or someone else says, or god forbid, what society says you should be doing as a sister-in-law and hostess. This is an emergency, and there will be many years to meet the SIL, you don't need to do it when you are broken. And for him to be forcing his way upon you and causing you more stress breaks my heart for your sake.

 

It also breaks my heart how little people who have not suffered a certain disorder can make the sufferer to blame in some way, or trivialize or patronize their suffering.

 

I'm so sorry this is happening, OP, and I hope you will do what YOU need to do, let your husband fume, and after you've had time AWAY from the triggers that keep you in the wakeful cycle, which is what you know you need, come back and then face whatever there is to face.

 

I'm not sure why you didn't see this side of your husband before you got married, but it's very troubling and I think, forboding.

 

This is not something you can compromise on, as other things in a marriage.

 

/rant over (maybe)

[tiredofvampires]

Also, though, I would suggest that you look further into either natural or alternative sleep remedies/medications.

 

I'm sure you know about what types of sleep medications there are, and the potential side effects, as a healthcare professional. But I do think at this level of seriousness, you need to find something that will interrupt the pattern, physiologically.

 

There are many natural substances out there, herbs and various nutrients, such as amino acids that work on brain receptors responsible for relaxation, with fewer side effects as well, and other approaches, such as acupuncture. I have an acupuncturist (very traditional, from China), and he puts needles in my scalp, and it's quite amazing that whenever he does this, I can't help but fall asleep on his table. And later, it's like I took a drug and need to go to sleep early.

 

I would look into various modalities and medications to see what might help, besides just relying on your own body at this point.

[tiredofvampires]

She'd probably be taken more seriously than with her passing off a good night's rest at ma's as the solution to cure her chronic and dangerously physically debilitating insomnia. And, while I can't assume, is she actually planning on driving there? If so, it may be that much harder for him to treat her seriously if she's claiming it's that bad while still having the mental capacity and motor skills to drive that long.

 

Here to attest to the fact that I can drive feeling almost like passing out, but if I know sleep is near the end, I can do it. I don't need a hospital, and CAN drive, physically, but that doesn't mean I can sustain anything else!

[Batya33]

I see your point TOV and I don't think we can assume that there is nothing going on in her body. For example, I had a stroke (from which I recovered quickly and 100% so it seems) shortly after my son was born and it was blamed on the pregnancy. It wasn't diagnosed until three days after I had it -required not just a cat scan but an MRI. My point is - sometimes there can be a stroke or other event that happens and especially with a new mom who is so distracted/intensely focused on baby she might ignore typical signs in her body of a problem. I ignored my stroke symptoms -my husband made me go to the ER shortly after I had my episode. So I do think she should be checked out in addition to everything else just in case and it really could be something going on that is causing or exacerbating it.

 

I had a thread about my "new mom insomnia" many years ago. Thank goodness it did not quite get to the extremes here. But I experienced the "alert" on switch you described and just was a total mess. So I really do get it and sleep meds are often not the answer because you want to be ok in the middle of the night if the baby needs you. I took them very, very rarely and never when I was alone.

 

I also think we can't assume that the distractions of just having houseguests will make it worse- in my experience it's often very particular distractions that cause the cycle to start -for me it was the baby plus my husband's snoring and even anticipating that he would snore in the brief time periods I had to sleep until the baby woke up again or could wake up.

 

So understand, I'm mostly with you, just wanted to add this in. Thanks so much for all this information because I think it will help a lot of people and not just the OP.

[superfan]

Right. And women are responsible adults perfectly capable of knowing their limits and addressing them any other time than the entire week an out-of-town guest has long been due in, and I respect them well enough to hold them to such a standard.

 

She IS addressing her limits. This is a limit for her. She is saying she is not physically capable of going any longer without sleep and that the visit is the only time she can get off to try to fix that. She is saying she is not physically up to entertaining a guest, nor is she able to functionally care for her child. She is TELLING her husband this (and my guess has been telling him this for some time) and no one is listening or taking her seriously. Even on this thread, her own needs are being dismissed by people claiming to know better than her what she should be doing to take care of her body.

 

I suffer from chronic pain on an almost daily basis from debilitating migraines. Sometimes I am able to push myself, other times, not. I thankfully have a husband who, when I say to him, "I cannot parent right now", will step in and do what needs to be done without complaint or questioning me. There are times I have called him while he was at work and I was caring for the baby and said "you need to come home right now. I am not capable of caring for her safely." He didn't question me, or tell me I was over reacting, he just DID IT. And he would do it until I said I was able to handle being a parent again.

 

If I said, "I need to go away for a week because the migraines are too much and I need to re set", he wouldn't tell me I was being selfish, or a bad mother, or a bad hostess for not wanting to entertain his sister, he would just take our daughter and parent her for a week until I was ready to come back. That is something a good father does. And THAT is respecting a woman for speaking up and voicing her needs. Which is what she has done. Repeatedly it seems and on deaf ears.

 

To say that "she is a responsible adult capable of voicing her needs" and then at the same time state that it is only acceptable for her to do so "at certain times of the week when it is more convenient and in line with what is socially acceptable" is not respecting the OP's limits or her medical issues at all. It is dismissing what she is going through as something "that can wait" because a social visit is more important. I can hardly think of anything less respectful.

 

And without knowing the sacrifices the husband has or hasn't made, I'm not ready to treat this thread as a case study for feminist theory.

 

And it's very lucky (and privileged) for you, that you don't have to. My guess is, that if the husband is not willing to look after HIS child for a week or compromise and let HIS child be looked after by grandma, then he is not pulling his parental weight. The fact that simply pointing out that women's health issues often and routinely get dismissed as being unimportant once a child comes along is not a case study in feminist theory, but fact. She is expected to either suck it up and parent/host or she has to be ready to drop and be checked herself into a hospital with something life threatening before anyone will consider that she herself knows what she needs.

 

I don't even think she needs to have a medical issue to justify taking a couple nights off at mom's to catch up on rest while the guest is around. But for her to approach the husband with a, "I'm going to my mom's for the duration of your sister's stay," and for her or us to crucify him for being a bit "w t f?" about it is pretty incredible. Should she come at him with some form of compromise and discussion and he insist on his way or nothing, I'll gladly join you in smashing the patriarchy on this one.

 

The fact that my comment gets dismissed because it is somehow seen as an attempt to shoe horn feminism in, rather than point out a very real issue proves my point. She shouldn't HAVE to be ready to drop in order to say "hey, I'm not up to hosting your sister, and I need a few days for my own mental health away from everything". The amount of physical and emotional labour that women take on is (most of the time) is immense and exhausting and if she is not up to hosting HIS family member a simple "I'm going away for a few days" SHOULD be more than enough. It is HIS family member, not hers and honestly she doesn't need to be there if it is detrimental to her mental health. And yeah mental health is JUST as important. She shouldn't need to offer a compromise on her mental health in order to appease her husband.

[Seraphim]

Maybe the husband could take the baby and go visit his sister himself? That way he gets to see his sister and his sister gets to see the baby . And she gets rest mom's or at her own house.

[Capricorn3]

As it seems the OP has left the building and/or chosen to no longer respond to this thread, thread closed.

 

OP, if you decide you want to continue with this thread, please send me a PM and I will gladly re-open. If not, feel free to start a new thread with an update if you wish.