Two dates and a lot of questions, opinions wanted

[Jibralta]

That's not what happened. He was just surprised by her actions. As he stated in his last post, he got the impression that she was boyfriending him before he may have been ready for it.

 

Here is what he said:

 

As strange as it may sound to all of you, these plans made me nervous and scared because I pictured myself set up for the next several months and chained to a relationship/person while we've been on just three dates and I hardly know her.

 

It's just a metaphor. He used the word "chained;" I used the word "shackled." They're synonyms.

 

He is not hung up on her.

 

Never said he was.

 

You don't know this. You don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. She could contact him within the next 5 minutes and ask him to come over and have sex with her. You don't know how it's going to go.

 

So what?

 

Or she may have been really into him and had a health issue in the family come up. This is all baseless speculation.

 

And?

[katrina1980]

To the OP, you have said in several posts that, with this girl, you feel "scared."

 

What are you scared of exactly?

 

You said you envision yourself "chained." What does this mean?

 

Boxed in a cage (relationship) unable to escape or something?

 

Escape from what? A woman who likes you and wants a relationship with you?

 

What does a "relationship" mean to you? Do you know?

 

What's interesting is you did not use these words with the last girl. Probably because she never wanted a relationship with you, so in essence she was "safe."

 

Did you know that these words (scared, nervous, pressured, chained) are the same exact words a "commitment-phobe" uses? Verbatim!

 

My brother who I mentioned earlier who is a self-admitted huge commitment-phobe uses these words or some variation thereof all the time.

 

He also claims to want a relationship but whenever he encounters a woman who likes him and expresses her interest and is responsive to him, he suddenly starts envisioning himself married with five kids, when all she did was ask him to the movies! It's crazy.

 

Then he starts in with the "scared" "feels pressure" "chained" etc. and pushes her away.

 

Any thoughts on that?

 

I agree with what Jibralta posted. Relax! Get out of your head and stop jumping ahead and psyching yourself out.

 

This girl likes you, or liked you, and wanted to spend time with you, and that's all!

 

You have no idea if she even wants a relationship with you and you act like she wants to lock you down into marriage with six kids.

 

You realize this is all in your own head don't you?

 

She is just a girl who likes (or liked) you and was expressing that.

 

That is how it's supposed to be!

 

If she is moving too fast, don't get scared for heavens sake, speak up and slow it down.

 

Easy peasey.

[bbogdanov]

I am not a commitment-phobe at all, I do want a relationship and I liked the girl. I just thought she was moving too fast after just three dates. Like we were already in a relationship. I don't know her yet so I want things to progress slower and to get to know her. The fact that I like her doesn't mean there could not be some deal-breaker for me (or for her as well). Her acting like that (or me interpreting her actions wrongly, it may be that as well!) made me feel what I felt.

 

Never mind. I didn't act cold or distant on the last date and I didn't show that something bothers me as I didn't realize it at the moment really. We parted ways with a kiss and a good night so I don't think I've done something that can push her away. That doesn't mean she couldn't sense it so it may be a reason for her to disapper. I don't know and I don't care. Just another rejection in my long list

[Careerchoice]

Just another rejection in my long list

 

You don't know that it's a rejection. And even if it is, if you really don't care as you say, it wouldn't be any harm in reaching out once again.

[bbogdanov]

What else could it be? She hadn't opened her Viber for couple of days and my messages were just "delivered" but I saw she was online several hours ago and the status of the messages is the same. I won't message her anymore as I value myself now, I think 2 or 3 messages in a row is the most I can afford to send without the other person even seeing them. It really is strange to me, but she is doing what she wants to do so I go on with my life.

[Jibralta]

Do you notice how you’ve gone from one extreme to another? First she’s trying to tie you down, now she’s left you in the dust. Could it be that the truth is somewhere in the middle?

[katrina1980]

OP fair enough, I am gonna give you benefit of doubt here. In your mind, she came on strong, talking future plans etc and it was too much too soon. Turned you off a bit or as you said it "scared" you.

 

My ex came on super strong like that. But instead of allowing it to "scare" me or jumping ahead envisioning feeling "chained" in a committed RL after two dates, I talked to him! Communicated my feelings.

 

I know novel idea, right? Actually communicating? lol

 

He listened, things slowed and we were together six years.

 

It's quite possible this girl "sensed" your ambivalence and "fear" and is now backing off. Or perhaps she's just not "feeling it" anymore, these early stages are always so precarious.

 

It is also possible "you" misinterpreted her actions to mean something they didn't.

 

Like I said before, my brother does the same thing and all the girl wanted was to spend time with him and get to know him.

 

I am glad to hear you value yourself and have chosen to not call AGAIN (chase her).

 

With all due respect to Careerchoice, you followed his advice with the last girl and she ended up dumping you for good.

 

I'm no expert (hardly!) but my advice would be to continue meeting and dating different girls. Get lots of different experiences.

 

Strike up random conversations, attend meet-ups, on line, use all avenues.

 

When you meet a girl you like and click with, take her out on a date and relax!

 

Try to not overthink (I know easier said than done) and enjoy the process of getting to know each other, see where it leads.

 

Communicate what you want, take control. Don't allow her to run the show!

 

You need a bit of backbone to do that, so work on that if necessary.

 

YOU set the pace.

 

With this girl you have reached out a few times and she's not responding?

 

No don't call again, "you" pull back which your gut is telling you to do. Follow your gut. Perhaps in a few days she will wonder why you're not chasing her and reach out to you. If that happens, see how you feel then. Don't write her off just yet.

 

Careerchoice's advice works for him because he has a different energy from you and it comes natural to him to behave that way. You project a different energy.

 

Nevermind following "rules" or self-help gurus like the dreaded Corey Wayne, it's all about the energy you project.

 

The energy we project trumps everything else, looks, success everything in my opinion.

 

Two men could do the same exact things and have two entirely different results because they each project a different energy.

 

This may sound hokey but get in touch with the energy you project. Look within. Introspect.

 

Is it positive, bold, confident, self-assured? Or is it negative, anxious, fearful, passive?

 

Get to know yourself and how you react in different situations. What triggers your anxieties.

 

JMO but these things are way more important and will take you a lot further in the long term than following advice that works for another man, or following the advice of some self-help guru.

 

It's all a journey OP, enjoy it and best of luck!

[bbogdanov]

Do you notice how you’ve gone from one extreme to another? First she’s trying to tie you down, now she’s left you in the dust. Could it be that the truth is somewhere in the middle?

 

What do you mean? I am lying?

[bbogdanov]

...

 

I really don't know what happened but I am not trying to analyze it. It's just what it is, she does what she wants to and I can't be bothered less. I am curious, of course, but nothing like what I was doing with the previous girl. I will continue dating girls, if I have that opportunity. I may have a date for Sunday so let's see what happens. And another interesting thing - the current girl hasn't been online in the dating site for 5 days now, the last time she's been is a day before our last date. Go figure Most probably she's found the love of her life outside that dating site.

[katrina1980]

I really don't know what happened but I am not trying to analyze it. It's just what it is, she does what she wants to and I can't be bothered less. I am curious, of course, but nothing like what I was doing with the previous girl. I will continue dating girls, if I have that opportunity. I may have a date for Sunday so let's see what happens. And another interesting thing - the current girl hasn't been online in the dating site for 5 days now, the last time she's been is a day before our last date. Go figure Most probably she's found the love of her life outside that dating site.

 

Probably for the best she "disappeared."

 

I always sensed you weren't all that into her anyway.

 

She may have sensed that as well. You know, your "energy" and all that.

 

Good luck on Sunday! Assuming it's a go,

 

Have fun!

[bbogdanov]

Thanks! Meanwhile I was on a date with a young girl the previous weekend but she's divorced with a 3-year-old kid. I enjoyed the date and she is a kind person but I just can't picture myself in that situation... She reached out the next day to see if I'd liked her because she'd liked me but I had to be honest about it and she seemed disappointed... I felt really bad...

[Careerchoice]

With all due respect to Careerchoice, you followed his advice with the last girl and she ended up dumping you for good.

 

And it's not possible that the advice was correct, but his execution was what messed things up?

 

I'm no expert (hardly!)

 

Let's discuss this. You offer up a lot of advice, but how much experience/success do you have in dating other women? (not that it's even completely relevant, because dating women as a woman is very different than as a man). How many women have you been with, and did you pursue them or was it the other way around? Other than wild speculation, on what else can you base your opinion?

 

I'm out there in the field every day. I currently have two girlfriends, am about to add a third, and still date other women. And I don't even think I'm an expert yet. Who's opinion carries more weight?

 

Careerchoice's advice works for him because he has a different energy from you and it comes natural to him to behave that way. You project a different energy.

 

No. My advice works because this is what I have learned to do and I practice it. It has nothing to do with my energy, whatever that means.

 

Nevermind following "rules" or self-help gurus like the dreaded Corey Wayne, it's all about the energy you project.

 

Corey Wayne doesn't know what he's talking about, but don't stereotype all self help gurus. There are some excellent ones out there. We discussed this in a different thread. You don't know everything about PUA, or even a lot from what I can glean, so don't paint it with such a broad brush.

 

The energy we project trumps everything else, looks, success everything in my opinion.

 

Two men could do the same exact things and have two entirely different results because they each project a different energy.

 

This may sound hokey but get in touch with the energy you project. Look within. Introspect.

 

You have no basis for this opinion. This is not an episode of Dragonball Z, where you can become so powerful by concentrating on your energy output.

 

JMO but these things are way more important and will take you a lot further in the long term than following advice that works for another man, or following the advice of some self-help guru.

 

And instead he should take advice from a woman who has essentially no experience in attracting women? Your statement makes no sense.

[katrina1980]

Thanks for your post Cc but disagree with virtually everything you said, but don't have the "energy" or desire to debate with you about it, we are on completely different "wavelengths."

 

Just to say, no I have not dated women. I "am" a woman, and therefore know what I respond to and having many female friends and acquaintances, know what they respond to. More or less, every woman is different and will therefore respond to different things.

 

You say you "execute" your advice in such a way it "works" for you. THAT is your energy talking, you have good positive energy, bold, confident which is precisely why you "are" able to execute it well.

 

But you don't understand it and don't know what I'm talkng about?

 

That's fine, not many do, think it's all a bunch of hoke.

 

I do, I understand different energies and how each of us project our own unique energy, and so will just leave it at that.

 

It works for ME!

[Careerchoice]

Just to say, no I have not dated women. I "am" a woman, and therefore know what I respond to and having many female friends and acquaintances, know what they respond to.

 

By way of crude analogy, I would never ask a chicken how to make chicken noodle soup; I would ask a chef. Although many of you have the best of intentions, my experience has been that women do not give effective dating advice for men. I am not the only one with this view. On the other hand, other men who used to be failures with women and who have learned how to succeed, can give terrific dating advice for men.

 

More or less, every woman is different and will therefore respond to different things.

 

That has not been my experience. The more I learn, the more predictable dating is becoming. I see a lot of commonalities in what women respond to.

 

You say you "execute" your advice in such a way it "works" for you. THAT is your energy talking, you have good positive energy, bold, confident which is precisely why you "are" able to execute it well.

 

My "energy" is exactly the same as it was 6 months ago. The only difference is that I learned new viewpoints/techniques and have practiced them. Practice improves execution.

 

It works for ME!

 

I think we have established that it doesn't work. You have never attracted another girl.

[katrina1980]

 

I think we have established that it doesn't work. You have never attracted another girl.

 

Oh to the contrary, I attract quite a few women, without meaning to of course; I project good positive energy and therefore attract many people to me, both men and women.

 

Four years ago I worked with a woman who literally fell in love with me!

 

I have never considered myself bisexual, in any way shape or form, but gotta admit there was some sort of unique energy between us, but I was in a serious relationship at the time so nothing ever became of it, then I left the firm. I told my bf all about it.

 

Since then, hell I constantly have women approaching me, propositioning me.

 

But my interests lie only with men.

 

Am dating a great guy now, same guy I started a thread about on which you gave me some sound advice, which I followed, so thanks for that!

[katrina1980]

 

That has not been my experience. The more I learn, the more predictable dating is becoming. I see a lot of commonalities in what women respond to.

 

I got a chuckle out of that; I can only speak for myself of course, but my behavior and the things I respond to are hardly what one would call "predictable."

 

Many men I have dated would attest to this too, including my ex-boyfriend/fiancé whom I was in RL with for six years.

 

I never respond or react the way most men expect me to. Their "strategies" get completely lost on me; I can see right through them (most of the time), and I tend to take most things at face value.

 

That said, there was a man last year who I believe was "gaming" me to a certain extent, I knew it and was "gaming" him too; it was rather fun actually!

 

The reason I responded the way I did was because, like you, he knew how to execute and it pulled me right in.

 

But I was aware of it the entire time, and frankly we had such a unique energy, that had he not used his particularly "strategies" I still would have like him!

 

He just had a really good "energy" about him and attracted many women because of it.

 

But you don't believe in 'energy' which is OK. Like I said, not many people do, or they don't understand it.

[Careerchoice]

I got a chuckle out of that; I can only speak for myself of course, but my behavior and the things I respond to are hardly what one would call "predictable."

 

Many men I have dated would attest to this too, including my ex-boyfriend/fiancé whom I was in RL with for six years.

 

I never respond or react the way most men expect me to. Their "strategies" get completely lost on me; I can see right through them (most of the time), and I tend to take most things at face value.

 

That said, there was a man last year who I believe was "gaming" me to a certain extent, I knew it and was "gaming" him too; it was rather fun actually!

 

The reason I responded the way I did was because, like you, he knew how to execute and it pulled me right in.

 

But I was aware of it the entire time, and frankly we had such a unique energy, that had he not used his particularly "strategies" I still would have like him!

 

He just had a really good "energy" about him and attracted many women because of it.

 

But you don't believe in 'energy' which is OK. Like I said, not many people do, or they don't understand it.

 

Your individual experience and observations are not relevant. The only thing that matters is what the majority of women respond to.

[katrina1980]

Your individual experience and observations are not relevant. The only thing that matters is what the majority of women respond to.

 

Well they may not be "relevant" to you, but they're relevant to me which is why I posted it.

 

My experiences are not all that unique either, I am fairly certain not every women in the universe responds in the same exact way, or even the "majority" of women.

 

To think otherwise is either pure arrogance or pure naiveté on your part.

 

However, obviously you have found a common ground, fair enough and good for you.

 

I am now done debating with you, I usually love a good debate but not enjoying this at all.

 

Wish you the best and have a great day!

[Pleasedonot5]

I have dated many other women (from FWB, to LT dating) and think that katrina1980's advice on this thread was very helpful and accurate.

[Jibralta]

What do you mean? I am lying?

 

Not at all. I meant exactly what I said. No hidden meaning.

[Jibralta]

don't stereotype all self help gurus.

 

The only thing that matters is what the majority of women respond to.

 

Don't stereotype all women.

[Careerchoice]

Don't stereotype all women.

 

Majority of women. And stereotyping a group of individuals for their chosen occupation versus stereotyping a gender for genetically based characteristics are two completely different things.

 

Not all PUA instructors are bad. Some are quite good and those are the ones I listen to. I'm not concerned with the bad ones. Not all women are predictable, but a large number are becoming so, to me at least. What am I supposed to do, ignore this information as a matter of principle? No, I'm going to use it to help be attract X number of girls. I see nothing unethical about this and I'm not going to stop it.

[bbogdanov]

Not at all. I meant exactly what I said. No hidden meaning.

 

Could you be more specific? I really don't understand.

[Jibralta]

I see nothing unethical about this and I'm not going to stop it.

 

I wasn’t really asking you to stop. It’s your life, and it doesn’t matter much to me how you choose to see the world. I was just parroting your statement to highlight the contradiction. I don’t think you recognize it, but again, it’s your life. You do you.

[Jibralta]

Could you be more specific? I really don't understand.

 

You went from one extreme to another, and missed the broad gray area between the two. The one option that you didn’t assume is that things are progressing at a healthy pace, ebbing and flowing in the natural rhythm of a relationship between two individuals.