Is wearing makeup dis-loyal? BPD/Emotionaly unstable disorder roller coaster relationship.....

[Unreasonable]

I feel like i struggle with my own convictions on the matter, i know how he treats me is wrong, i also know that he has a condition that makes it hard for him to understand that and where the boundaries lie, i also know i love who he is beyond the disorder and the thought of leaving him breaks my heart but i don't know if i can go on with the Jekyll and Hyde lifestyle.

Love isn't enough, and if his "condition" makes him abusive, you should absolutely, positively, leave. Trust me you marry this man and you will regret it.

[DancingFool]

OP, one thing about BPD is that they select partners who are co-dependent and come already with low self esteem. This may be a surprise for you certainly, but while you are so busy trying to fix him, you are ignoring your own issues and the real reasons you keep sticking around tolerating abuse.

 

This link might be helpful for you to read a little about it [url="

[RainyCoast]

you keep going on about his behavior and his condition- they do nothing to explain why YOU continuously choose to ruin your life by subejcting yourself to behavior you don't like and don't expect to change.

 

there is no jekyll and hyde. he is one single person. the habit of splitting people like that is not realistic, it is a defense mechanism.

 

if you need to stay/keep returning, that's nobody's business but your own- sometimes when we feel genuine enjoyment isn't possible, the pathological kind will do just fine. but then it's still a choice of your own, a package deal with it's consequences, and when you choose your own preferred form of satisfaction, you've bartered the right to complain about it.

 

since you've been so diligent as to follow him to all his appointments, have you considered taking responsibility for your own feelings and behavior by taking up counseling yourself to see why you keep living like this? pathologizing him and victimizing yourself is easy- and also cheap since it's not intended to help you improve your situation, it's intended to help you complain and regress. and even that leaves you with choices: ending it, or accepting you simply like this miserable dynamic and this is the right relationship for you at this point in time.

[BornOfChaos]

SophieC- Only you can convince yourself. Others are trying to educate you on the matter. Go to their links (such as DancingFool's link) and educate yourself. Learn and understand that what you're doing isn't anything new, that it's a time-proven pattern others in your shoes have followed too. To their own detriment, clinging to that last bit of hope. You are a prisoner thinking "inside the box", instead of "outside the box". Regardless of every little hope you see in him (which is often an illusion to manipulate you into staying codependent), BPD is a serious issue that you have no idea how to fix in others. Even trained therapists aren't perfect, many times they get fooled too. But do read the links others provide to understand the relationship dynamic you're currently in. Then get out while you can, instead of letting yourself continue to be trapped in the web of codependency.

[MissCanuck]

OP, I hear you.

 

My ex is also diagnosed BPD and started making insane, controlling demands like yours. I did not go along with them, though, and I know exactly what you mean when you describe "the aftermath" of not complying with his wishes. It's not pretty. The further away I pulled from him (ie. not permitting him to put me on the proverbial leash) the more irrational and rage-filled he became. On the rare occasion I conceded just to avoid another tantrum, especially in public, he still found reason to be angry at me. No, he wasn't always this raging emotional terrorist. He could also be the sweetest, most loving guy you'd ask for. But both of those sides are who he is. I couldn't separate Jekyll from Hyde - he is both. These guys aren't always horrible, which is precisely what makes them so hard to break free form. You become addicted to the loving bits. But OP, that controlling warden is also who your guy is.

 

My ex refused to seek any treatment after he'd been diagnosed. He believed - and probably still does - that his explosive outbursts and "rules" for relationships were completely justified and my fault. If only I would have followed his orders, everything would have been fine, he said. But it never was. There was always something else that set him off. We were on-off for around a year.

 

And then one day, the abuse crossed the line from emotional/verbal to physical. I knew I had to get away from him, for good. I fear that this will be you, too. It's absolutely already headed in that direction.

 

Couples counselling won't even begin scratch the surface of this man's problems. It is not the appropriate treatment for him at this time. He needs much more intensive, long-term, medically- and psychologically-oriented treatment if he truly suffers from BPD. Some BPD folks do the very hard and learn to cope and manage. Many do not. Your guy falls very clearly into the latter category, given his belief that this type of control and emotional abuse is just him "expressing his opinion."

 

Do not marry this man. It will get worse. Much worse. Please, do what I did and seek counselling for yourself. To be truly free of this, you first need to understand why you keep going back for more mistreatment, disrespect and abuse. Above all, start taking care of yourself. I recognize a lot of what I went through in your posts. Self-love is so important, and more of it will help you stop attaching yourself to extremely unhealthy people such as your fiance.

[abitbroken]

I've stopped sharing any information on it with my parents for exactly that reason, i don't want to worry them and i understand it would be awful. To be honest i havn't slept with him much at all recently, the stress brings me to a level where im not interested. I've been the one to support him financially and after living together a while we have some bills to pay off in both of our names but nothing more, we are living with his dad at the moment and literally everything i own is in their house. I don't think he should be allowed to dictate my life but despite trying to solve things i just seem to be sinking further down. I've told him in arguments before i'm leaving but never got very far away before i go back, he also more often than not follows me down the road telling/shouting/begging me not to walk away from him.

 

You need to tell people because you need help. You need to be talked into your senses to leave him. You need to take anything that is important out of your boyfriend's family's house even if its one thing in your purse at a time that he won't notice -- i am talking your identification papers, any heirloom photos, etc --- basic household items and clothing can be replaced. You need to create an escape plan. That may involve lying - to make sure you are home after he goes to work and have your parents come by to pick you up with your things. If someone is there, he may turn on the charm for them, or they may witness the abuse. Who knows who cares.

 

And if he follows you shouting down the road -- then let him and let him make noise so the neighbors call the police or just dial 911 and tell them you are afraid.

 

If you do not get out of this situation, believe me, you will be even more of a shell of a woman than you are today.

 

I escaped a very abusive marriage --- i took the narrow opportunity when he left the house to disappear myself.

[Hell_On_Heels]

People are asking why the OP is staying in this abusive relationship. Why doesn't she just leave? They questions are reasonable to ask...so here is my attempt at an answer.

 

Manipulative abusive people take very specific steps to alter the identity of their partner. They brainwash them.

 

First are the attacks on the person...you're not good enough, tall enough, short enough. You aren't clean enough, you're too clean, you wear makeup, you don't wear makeup. The attacks are persistent and are aimed for the heart of their partner. However the partner identifies herself, this is where the attack will come from.

 

It is emotional torture, and the identity weakens over time.

 

Next comes the guilt/blame. The partner is held accountable for every bad thing the abuser does. A weakened self identity can't stand up to that for long, and begins to agree that they are responsible for bad behaviors...so they try hard to make sure the bad stuff doesn't happen.

 

Now the identity has been twisted in how it sees itself, and how it behaves.

 

Third, by altering behaviors to satisfy the abuser, the partner begins to abandon themselves. They quit doing things that makes them feel good (see steps 1 and 2 for why), and become consumed with seeing the world from the abuser's viewpoint. As the partner's identity slowly dies, there really isn't any other world view.

 

Fourth, the abuser begins to gaslight the partner. The partner still has a small grasp on reality, but any moment of clarity is immediately and viciously attacked. "That never happened. You're crazy!" or "You're sick in the head if you think that about me!"

 

This is the point where the partner realizes they no longer know who they are.

 

Fifth, the abuser will now offer moments of kindness, of love, of whatever it was that drew the partner in at the beginning. These moments of kindness are tiny, but seem huge to the partner because they are so rare. This binds the partner even tighter, as they hope for better days. The partner thinks if they can just do more of whatever brought on the kindness, everything will be all right again.

 

Sixth, the partner now internalizes all the abuse, and claims it as her own. Every bad thing is because of her. Every good thing is because of her. The partner is now completely responsible for 2 people. The partner will go to great lengths to avoid the bad stuff...and since the identity is just about gone, there is no reasonable standard for the partner to judge by. Everything in life is judged by the abuser's opinions and demands.

 

Seventh, the partner feels shame and guilt. They feel anything they think, feel, or do is inherently wrong. They know they are punished when they are wrong.

 

Eighth, the partner shifts their belief system to match the abuser's. They often feel terrible for ever thinking or behaving in a way that doesn't mesh with the abuser's.

 

It's not surprising that the OP hasn't left, yet. It takes a LOT of courage since her world is now one of fear and punishment. Her sense of sense is under attack, and is badly damaged.

 

OP, there are support systems for this, who know where you are emotionally, and how you can help yourself. The only way to getting yourself back is to leave him. Please, please contact an abused women's group so you can get this support.

[DancingFool]

People are asking why the OP is staying in this abusive relationship. Why doesn't she just leave? They questions are reasonable to ask...so here is my attempt at an answer.

 

Manipulative abusive people take very specific steps to alter the identity of their partner. They brainwash them.

 

First are the attacks on the person...you're not good enough, tall enough, short enough. You aren't clean enough, you're too clean, you wear makeup, you don't wear makeup. The attacks are persistent and are aimed for the heart of their partner. However the partner identifies herself, this is where the attack will come from.

 

It is emotional torture, and the identity weakens over time.

 

Next comes the guilt/blame. The partner is held accountable for every bad thing the abuser does. A weakened self identity can't stand up to that for long, and begins to agree that they are responsible for bad behaviors...so they try hard to make sure the bad stuff doesn't happen.

 

Now the identity has been twisted in how it sees itself, and how it behaves.

 

Third, by altering behaviors to satisfy the abuser, the partner begins to abandon themselves. They quit doing things that makes them feel good (see steps 1 and 2 for why), and become consumed with seeing the world from the abuser's viewpoint. As the partner's identity slowly dies, there really isn't any other world view.

 

Fourth, the abuser begins to gaslight the partner. The partner still has a small grasp on reality, but any moment of clarity is immediately and viciously attacked. "That never happened. You're crazy!" or "You're sick in the head if you think that about me!"

 

This is the point where the partner realizes they no longer know who they are.

 

Fifth, the abuser will now offer moments of kindness, of love, of whatever it was that drew the partner in at the beginning. These moments of kindness are tiny, but seem huge to the partner because they are so rare. This binds the partner even tighter, as they hope for better days. The partner thinks if they can just do more of whatever brought on the kindness, everything will be all right again.

 

Sixth, the partner now internalizes all the abuse, and claims it as her own. Every bad thing is because of her. Every good thing is because of her. The partner is now completely responsible for 2 people. The partner will go to great lengths to avoid the bad stuff...and since the identity is just about gone, there is no reasonable standard for the partner to judge by. Everything in life is judged by the abuser's opinions and demands.

 

Seventh, the partner feels shame and guilt. They feel anything they think, feel, or do is inherently wrong. They know they are punished when they are wrong.

 

Eighth, the partner shifts their belief system to match the abuser's. They often feel terrible for ever thinking or behaving in a way that doesn't mesh with the abuser's.

 

It's not surprising that the OP hasn't left, yet. It takes a LOT of courage since her world is now one of fear and punishment. Her sense of sense is under attack, and is badly damaged.

 

OP, there are support systems for this, who know where you are emotionally, and how you can help yourself. The only way to getting yourself back is to leave him. Please, please contact an abused women's group so you can get this support.

 

Thank you for this brilliantly informative post. One of the issues with abuse that is highly neglected in terms of why the victim won't leave is precisely because quite often the victim doesn't see themselves as a victim of abuse. They see themselves as the strong caretaker of themselves and, most importantly, of their abuser, whom they see as needing their help and support. While it may seem incomprehensible to people outside of this dynamic, to the victim of abuse it's their reality and makes perfect sense. Sure they will feel drained, exhausted, stressed out...but it's all because they just need to be there and take care of their abuser in their mind, not because they are being used and abused to kingdom come.

[Unreasonable]

Could it be you haven't talked to your family because they might try to talk you out of this relationship, and they have more clout than a bunch of anonymous people on some internet forum? Stop using half-measures.

[ThatwasThen]

Thank you for this brilliantly informative post. One of the issues with abuse that is highly neglected in terms of why the victim won't leave is precisely because quite often the victim doesn't see themselves as a victim of abuse. They see themselves as the strong caretaker of themselves and, most importantly, of their abuser, whom they see as needing their help and support. While it may seem incomprehensible to people outside of this dynamic, to the victim of abuse it's their reality and makes perfect sense. Sure they will feel drained, exhausted, stressed out...but it's all because they just need to be there and take care of their abuser in their mind, not because they are being used and abused to kingdom come.

 

I ask why do you stay simply because I want the person staying to tell me why THEY do. It takes a lot of self-reflection to actually answer that question of themselves which is where the light bulb goes off that they are not in such a good thing that they thought they were in. At the very least, if they actually answer, there is a chance to start a dialogue as to why they should leave and why their excuse(s) not to leave make little sense. Most say because they love the person or that when he's not abusing is so great.

 

The psychological reasons why they stay are well known to us who don't stay in abusive situations. Those of us who have the boundaries and self-love in place just don't stay because we know we don't deserve to be treated like that. Unfortunately, those that do stay are unaware of their own value.

[LaHermes]

"The Mystery of Loving an Abuser"

 

 

 

Small Kindnesses. In relationships with abusers, a birthday card, a gift (usually provided after a period of abuse), or a special treat are interpreted as not only positive, but evidence that the abuser is not “all bad” and may at some time correct his/her behavior. Abusers and controllers are often given positive credit for not abusing their partner, when the partner would have normally been subjected to verbal or physical abuse in a certain situation. An aggressive and jealous partner may normally become intimidating or abusive in certain social situations, as when an opposite-sex coworker waves in a crowd. After seeing the wave, the victim expects to be verbally battered and when it doesn’t happen, that “small kindness” is interpreted as a positive sign.

 

Similar to the small kindness perception is the perception of a “soft side”. During the relationship, the abuser/controller may share information about their past – how they were mistreated, abused, neglected, or wronged. The victim begins to feel the abuser/controller may be capable of fixing their behavior or worse yet, that they (abuser) may also be a “victim”. Sympathy may develop toward the abuser and we often hear the victim of Stockholm Syndrome defending their abuser with “I know he fractured my jaw and ribs…but he’s troubled. He had a rough childhood!” Losers and abusers may admit they need psychiatric help or acknowledge they are mentally disturbed, however, it's almost always after they have already abused or intimidated the victim. The admission is a way of denying responsibility for the abuse. In truth, personality disorders and criminals have learned over the years that personal responsibility for their violent/abusive behaviors can be minimized and even denied by blaming their bad upbringing, abuse as a child, and now - video games. One murderer blamed his crime on eating too much junk food – now known as the “Twinkie Defense”. While it may be true that the abuser/controller had a difficult upbringing – showing sympathy for his/her history produces no change in their behavior and in fact, prolongs the length of time you will be abused. While “sad stories” are always included in their apologies – after the abusive/controlling event - their behavior never changes! Keep in mind; once you become hardened to the “sad stories”, they will simply try another approach. I know of no victim of abuse or crime who has heard their abuser say "I'm beating (robbing, mugging, etc.) you because my Mom hated me!"

 

Isolation from Perspectives Other than those of the Captor

In abusive and controlling relationships, the victim has the sense they are always “walking on eggshells” – fearful of saying or doing anything that might prompt a violent/intimidating outburst. For their survival, they begin to see the world through the abuser’s perspective. They begin to fix things that might prompt an outburst, act in ways they know makes the abuser happy, or avoid aspects of their own life that may prompt a problem. If we only have a dollar in our pocket, then most of our decisions become financial decisions. If our partner is an abuser or controller, then the majority of our decisions are based on our perception of the abuser’s potential reaction. We become preoccupied with the needs, desires, and habits of the abuser/controller.

 

Taking the abuser’s perspective as a survival technique can become so intense that the victim actually develops anger toward those trying to help them. The abuser is already angry and resentful toward anyone who would provide the victim support, typically using multiple methods and manipulations to isolate the victim from others.

 

and

 

"Why Does She stay"

 

 

[Hell_On_Heels]

The psychological reasons why they stay are well known to us who don't stay in abusive situations. Those of us who have the boundaries and self-love in place just don't stay because we know we don't deserve to be treated like that. Unfortunately, those that do stay are unaware of their own value.

 

Your post assumes that only people with low self esteem find themselves in abusive relationships. That's just not true. It's much easier for an abuser to brainwash someone with low self esteem, but there isn't a personality type that abusers prey on. This isn't about personality at all - it's about behavior.

 

I think what you are referring to, and all the media points to, is that victims of abuse have low self esteem...which is part of the brainwashing cycle. Victims, not potential candidates.

[ThatwasThen]

Your post assumes that only people with low self esteem find themselves in abusive relationships. That's just not true.

No it doesn't... it illustrates how people with low self esteem STAY in those relationship. Anyone can find themselves with an abuser. Those with good self-worth and strong personal boundaries don't stay in them.

 

It's much easier for an abuser to brainwash someone with low self esteem, but there isn't a personality type that abusers prey on. This isn't about personality at all - it's about behavior.

Now you're assuming... abusers prey on those that enable it.

 

I think what you are referring to, and all the media points to, is that victims of abuse have low self esteem...which is part of the brainwashing cycle. Victims, not potential candidates.

Like I said, its those that stay and enable the abuse that have low self-esteem to begin with. If they didn't, then they would leave upon the first incidence at most the second because they would never allow themselves to stay long enough to be brain washed. Abuse usually rears its ugly head early on in one form or another. It has to do with the model of the relationship they grew up with as well. Its not all about low self esteem it's also about lack of personal boundaries and codependency usually or often due to how one was raised.

[ThatwasThen]

Adding: As I said, abuse usually rears its head within a short period of time... Our Op's abuser began early into the relationship. She complains that she's been in this mess for two-1/2 years but hasn't worn makeup in over a year because he dictated that she doesn't. I'm sure there were even more red flags prior to the banishing of her makeup. Those with good personal boundaries, a good sense of self, not codependent, et el would have continued to wear makeup and if he didn't stop with his NONSENSE then they would have left him.

[Hell_On_Heels]

ThatWasThen, let's agree to disagree. It's a fascinating conversation that we should probably have on another thread, so that we can focus on the OP here on hers.

[RainyCoast]

i don't believe there has been any rough handling. i see insight that would actually be very empowering- for one who wants to be empowered into choosing better for them self. not for one for whom dysfunctional dynamics work all too well on the subtle level. often people need their power taken away by someone else, because it allows them to not look at the extent of their own self-sabotage.

 

i am still very interested in how how OP would fare with a guy trusting and confident enough to not be keen on defeatist attitudes in a partner, and having it hammered into his head his use of porn is cheating. she's consistently choosing someone for whom her qualities work because they allow for his behavior towards her. it goes both ways. it's like when people hear of something disgusting enough in an interpersonal relationship, they stop looking at it from a relational perspective- but this clearly takes two people to work. i've yet to see a healthy self-respecting person who has a nut chase her down the street screaming to come back and stop showering actually do so.

 

it would be reasonable if the focus was actually on OP and her repetitive, chronic choices.

 

she isn't a molested child. she is a grown up displaying an obvious behavioral pattern, almost a repetition compulsion. it takes a certain maladaptive schema for one to do that. it's hers, and wasn't planted by Evil Boyfriend. Were it, it likewise would've been hers to own, and to work with, as all psychological inheritance is, for everyone.

 

placing the locus of control outside of her and extrapolating on how unbalanced someone else is isn't productive, and apparently is doing nothing for her but keeping her at the familiar old spot, still too comfortable to leave for a new one.

 

it's not critical or unsympathetic to point that out. we choose what works for us at a given time. dysfunction of any kind is a solution to a problem. always. which works just fine when for whatever reason we can't use functional solutions. nobody has the competence to meet all situations optimally all the time. but when we're unwilling and unable to accept the consequences of our dysfunction, it's up to us to either start approaching things in healthier ways and choose accordingly, or to simply recognize this is currently the best we can do and make peace with our current sub-optimal choices and what they entail until we are ready for better ones.

[Tanzi]

OP, I found your post so difficult to read. It is so disturbing. The most disturbing thing of all, however, is the fact that you are jumping through hoops to keep this guy happy.

 

Before you met him you were a bubbly girl who took care of her appearance and personal hygiene - now you can't even take a shower without him questioning it. Worst of all, he now has you questioning what's right. He has ground you down to the point where you have lost touch with reality. It pains me to know you had to ask such a question.

 

You aren't the person you once were when you first met him. He has done this to you. He is the one zapping your energy and life away. He's gotta go. Don't waste time trying to fix him. Work on fixing yourself.

[Tanzi]

I don't know, the last thing to happen was i call him everyday all my lunch hour and when i leave work until when i get home if he doesn't come to meet me from work. I've tried not to before but it's just not worth the aftermath. Yesterday he told me he was upset that i didn't call him from the moment i put my foot out the office door, that he doesn't want to be paranoid about it but he can't help it and seeing as it's only a few minutes more to me surely it shouldn't make a difference so i have no reason not to do it. You are right it just keeps going further and further.

 

The thing is ive never thought of myself as insecure, I feel i'm confident enough to feel like myself without the makeup and clothes etc, after consistent conversations about how bad it made him feel i decided to change it to help him feel better but i still felt like me ( it didn't stop the comments on how i looked though). I have been in all his appointments since he was diagnosed and it's supposedly near impossible for BPD's to change as they have hyper sensitive emotions that blow things out of proportion for them and they tell me he has done 'well' so far. The thing is the person he is when he is relaxed and not worried about those things is the person i love, the person inside all of that is who i want to be there to support. It doesn't feel fair on him to walk away because of something that he doesn't want to be and never asked for. He's forever upset that he can't just be 'normal' and always tells me how i could do much better. Many people tell him how he's 'punching above his weight' which never helps and only makes matters worse.

 

I've stopped sharing any information on it with my parents for exactly that reason, i don't want to worry them and i understand it would be awful. To be honest i havn't slept with him much at all recently, the stress brings me to a level where im not interested. I've been the one to support him financially and after living together a while we have some bills to pay off in both of our names but nothing more, we are living with his dad at the moment and literally everything i own is in their house. I don't think he should be allowed to dictate my life but despite trying to solve things i just seem to be sinking further down. I've told him in arguments before i'm leaving but never got very far away before i go back, he also more often than not follows me down the road telling/shouting/begging me not to walk away from him.

 

I feel like i struggle with my own convictions on the matter, i know how he treats me is wrong, i also know that he has a condition that makes it hard for him to understand that and where the boundaries lie, i also know i love who he is beyond the disorder and the thought of leaving him breaks my heart but i don't know if i can go on with the Jekyll and Hyde lifestyle.

 

I'm sorry that's so long but i havn't had anyone to talk to about this properly for the longest time.

 

The fact that his emotionally abusive, manipulative, controlling behaviour has now been given a title doesn't change the fact that it is very wrong and that YOU are the one who is suffering the most. You have to account for every step you take and every minute that goes by. He may be the one who has been diagnosed but you are the one who is suffering the ill effects.

 

The person inside is not the one you think it is. The person inside is the controller and jealous manipulator. He is only happy and relaxed when you have attended to his every whim.

 

There really is no point in telling him you will leave when you are not yet strong enough to follow through with your words. Even though you get as far as walking away from him, he knows how to get you back.

 

Please understand that whilst you can make him happy for a while, you can't change the person he is. THIS is who he is and it will only get worse. The more you give in to his ridiculous demands the more he will expect.

 

For your own sake, you must leave him. Do not trap yourself in this lifestyle. In years to come you will resent him and regret your wasted years. Yes, you will have a tough road ahead of you for a while (and it will only feel worse when he pulls out all the stops to get you back ... no doubt, he will threaten to harm himself) but when you meet someone else who will love you for who you are and let you be who you want to be, there won't be any doubt that you did the right thing.

[Tanzi]

What bothers me so, is that now that this kind of controlling, manipulative behaviour has been given a medical term, it gives justification to the diagnosed's irrational demands and treatment of others. It doesn't make it okay.

[Tanzi]

OP, I hear you.

 

My ex is also diagnosed BPD and started making insane, controlling demands like yours. I did not go along with them, though, and I know exactly what you mean when you describe "the aftermath" of not complying with his wishes. It's not pretty. The further away I pulled from him (ie. not permitting him to put me on the proverbial leash) the more irrational and rage-filled he became. On the rare occasion I conceded just to avoid another tantrum, especially in public, he still found reason to be angry at me. No, he wasn't always this raging emotional terrorist. He could also be the sweetest, most loving guy you'd ask for. But both of those sides are who he is. I couldn't separate Jekyll from Hyde - he is both. These guys aren't always horrible, which is precisely what makes them so hard to break free form. You become addicted to the loving bits. But OP, that controlling warden is also who your guy is.

 

My ex refused to seek any treatment after he'd been diagnosed. He believed - and probably still does - that his explosive outbursts and "rules" for relationships were completely justified and my fault. If only I would have followed his orders, everything would have been fine, he said. But it never was. There was always something else that set him off. We were on-off for around a year.

 

And then one day, the abuse crossed the line from emotional/verbal to physical. I knew I had to get away from him, for good. I fear that this will be you, too. It's absolutely already headed in that direction.

 

Couples counselling won't even begin scratch the surface of this man's problems. It is not the appropriate treatment for him at this time. He needs much more intensive, long-term, medically- and psychologically-oriented treatment if he truly suffers from BPD. Some BPD folks do the very hard and learn to cope and manage. Many do not. Your guy falls very clearly into the latter category, given his belief that this type of control and emotional abuse is just him "expressing his opinion."

 

Do not marry this man. It will get worse. Much worse. Please, do what I did and seek counselling for yourself. To be truly free of this, you first need to understand why you keep going back for more mistreatment, disrespect and abuse. Above all, start taking care of yourself. I recognize a lot of what I went through in your posts. Self-love is so important, and more of it will help you stop attaching yourself to extremely unhealthy people such as your fiance.

 

Amazing posts. There is some real insight here. Take heed OP.

[eidetic]

OP, if he has been clinically diagnosed and is under supervision of a therapist, has he also completed the 9-month to 1-year dialectical behavior therapy?

[ThatwasThen]

ThatWasThen, let's agree to disagree. It's a fascinating conversation that we should probably have on another thread, so that we can focus on the OP here on hers.

The conversation is on topic.

 

If she's reading her whole thread then what you and I have discussed is on topic and would benefit her to read and understand. He's gravely disturbed, that's clear. Her? Well not "gravely disturbed" she would do well to be educated about what's going on inside of her psyche which keeps her with that kind of crazy. Until she reaches her rock bottom or educates herself about her, she will remain to suffer.

 

Well worth repeating:

i don't believe there has been any rough handling. i see insight that would actually be very empowering- for one who wants to be empowered into choosing better for them self. not for one for whom dysfunctional dynamics work all too well on the subtle level. often people need their power taken away by someone else, because it allows them to not look at the extent of their own self-sabotage.

 

i am still very interested in how how OP would fare with a guy trusting and confident enough to not be keen on defeatist attitudes in a partner, and having it hammered into his head his use of porn is cheating. she's consistently choosing someone for whom her qualities work because they allow for his behavior towards her. it goes both ways. it's like when people hear of something disgusting enough in an interpersonal relationship, they stop looking at it from a relational perspective- but this clearly takes two people to work. i've yet to see a healthy self-respecting person who has a nut chase her down the street screaming to come back and stop showering actually do so.

 

it would be reasonable if the focus was actually on OP and her repetitive, chronic choices.

 

she isn't a molested child. she is a grown up displaying an obvious behavioral pattern, almost a repetition compulsion. it takes a certain maladaptive schema for one to do that. it's hers, and wasn't planted by Evil Boyfriend. Were it, it likewise would've been hers to own, and to work with, as all psychological inheritance is, for everyone.

 

placing the locus of control outside of her and extrapolating on how unbalanced someone else is isn't productive, and apparently is doing nothing for her but keeping her at the familiar old spot, still too comfortable to leave for a new one.

 

it's not critical or unsympathetic to point that out. we choose what works for us at a given time. dysfunction of any kind is a solution to a problem. always. which works just fine when for whatever reason we can't use functional solutions. nobody has the competence to meet all situations optimally all the time. but when we're unwilling and unable to accept the consequences of our dysfunction, it's up to us to either start approaching things in healthier ways and choose accordingly, or to simply recognize this is currently the best we can do and make peace with our current sub-optimal choices and what they entail until we are ready for better ones.

[LV426]

You need to run not walk away. This is horrible and you are in real danger. This person is unstable and abusive and it will escalate and get worse and never get better. The longer you stay the harder it will be to get out. You may want to contact an abuse hotline in order to plan an effective and safe exit strategy.

[Hell_On_Heels]

The conversation is on topic.

 

If she's reading her whole thread then what you and I have discussed is on topic and would benefit her to read and understand. He's gravely disturbed, that's clear. Her? Well not "gravely disturbed" she would do well to be educated about what's going on inside of her psyche which keeps her with that kind of crazy. Until she reaches her rock bottom or educates herself about her, she will remain to suffer.

 

From what the OP is writing here, it's long past the point of "fix yourself". It's past the point of the OP understanding why she's staying. As she heart-breakingly wrote, she doesn't know who she is any more. I don't know if you've ever been in a situation like that - I'm guessing you haven't, which is good news - but believe her words, and the words of those of us who've also been there...you really do lose all sense of reality, of boundaries, of self. You cease to be a person, and instead become a series of Pavlovian responses.

 

She's been under attack emotionally and mentally for some time, and the attacks are coming from someone that she loves. Feel that for a minute.

 

Truth is, no one is immune to brainwashing or torture of any kind. We'd all like to think we are, but we aren't. That's what torture means - pushing someone beyond their limits through pain, and altering how they think, feel, and act. To add shame to the mix by saying she needs to work on her self esteem is rubbing salt in an open wound. What self esteem? What self?

 

The only good news is that there is a way back. The OP can reclaim herself with experienced professional help in a safe environment. That safe environment includes no blame, or anything that remotely looks like blame. Take a look at post #35. I know that it's meant to help, but to someone who is already emotionally battered, it could feel like more judgment, like one more person telling her how she's not behaving properly. It looks like one more person telling her that her pain is all her fault.

 

and if she has to choose between her abuser and anonymous posters, she's probably gonna choose her abuser. She sees him as the wounded one, and she loves him.

[Giblesp]

Your both being a bit controlling of the other, but he drastically more than you. In fact I would say that he is not compatible for a relationship with a woman.

 

I really would advise to discontinue this relationship. Only settle for someone who makes you feel free. Otherwise, whats the point.