The Great Pretenders (In Our Relationships) -- LONG

[reinventmyself]

I doubt you are a narcissist. You would be telling us what was wrong with us instead

And you would be unflawed and near perfect to boot.

[katrina1980]

I doubt you are a narcissist. You would be telling us what was wrong with us instead

And you would be unflawed and near perfect to boot.

 

OMG I just had an "aha moment" about a guy I liked A LOT, who did this.

 

I did walk away though, but it was hard.

[katrina1980]

 

For example say a guy enjoys a lot of together time or texting or whatever, that guy will walk away and the guys you don't want who rarely communicate or want to be together will stay.

 

Just be yourself, whoever that is rather than modify your heart and soul just to get dates or get someone unsuitable to stick around.

 

Wiseman I just read this again.

 

Bolded -- no this has not been my experience.

 

If a guy wants to see me a lot and is texting a lot, I will respond positively to that! Assuming I am very into him and want a RL with him.

 

I only start pretending to be the cool chick when they are NOT behaving this way. When they don't want to spend time with me, or take days to text or call.

 

Then in response to my being (pretending) to be so cool about it, no they don't walk away. They start playing games! To gauge my reaction.

 

Just out of curiosity, how old are you? Not exact but over 50? If so, you have no idea what dating is like now.

[zeino]

Wiseman I just read this again.

 

Bolded -- no this has not been my experience.

 

If a guy wants to see me a lot and is texting a lot, I will respond positively to that! Assuming I am very into him and want a RL with him.

 

I only start pretending to be the cool chick when they are NOT behaving this way. When they don't want to spend time with me, or take days to text or call.

 

Then in response to my being (pretending) to be so cool about it, no they don't walk away. They start playing games! To gauge my reaction.

 

Just out of curiosity, how old are you? Not exact but over 50? If so, you have no idea what dating is like now.

 

Katrina, people over 50 do date and actually they are probably deriving more satisfaction from their interactions than younger people. (And yes, they hook up on Tinder if they wish to do so). And rules of dating may change, but speed and stuff affect everybody and human longings or troubles rarely do change, literature from centuries ago describes dynamics that you are repeating today - and the kind of unavailable guy you fall for reach their prime at that age, so beware

 

Anyway.

 

So, from what you describe, it seems that you turn dismissive at the face of perceived or potential rejection instead of standing there securely and being yourself. Why exactly do you do this? I think the problem has very little to do with these men but may be more related to your childhood experiences when you experienced rejection in more hurtful ways from one or two of your primary givers. Pretending surely hides your true vulnerability so helps you to defend yourself. Until you sort this out, you may find yourself entering the same dynamic over and over, trying to repeat a primary scenario expecting a different outcome.

 

Please notice that maybe they don't start games but are responding to your games, which you may be initiating by being the cool chick. Who starts this push and pull? Who contributes to this with what behaviour? When you analyze this in detail you will have so much clue about what is going on in this dynamic.

 

Turning dismissive at the face of rejection is one of normal human reactions. But it seems that you are doing this at a degree that makes you unhappy.

 

It is good to be motivated to stop this and take the risk of revealing yourself more. So, kudos to you.

 

I believe it will be even better if you find what you are trying to prevent or protect in your own self so that you make that thing comfortable and it becomes easier to open yourself to people.

 

Usually, we become attracted to people who share the same level of emotional maturity to us. We may have similar wounds or vulnerabilities and find ourselves with a feeling of familiarity if they remind us of our earlier dynamics with our primary caregivers. But sometimes, we have come out of this process with different makeups and find ourselves in opposite corners. Still, we have so much in common with them. Some of these traits may be overt in one of us and inverted in the other one.

 

Simply growing up with a difficult parent means jumbled boundaries sometimes, and risk taking behaviour in somethings - my mother can be very volatile for instance, so I feel kind of unthreatened in situations where I should actually be running for the hills. And then we may be extremely fearful in some other things. I grow up with a mother who is fake in a lot of things because she is a narcissist. She is kind of fabricated basically. She doesn't always do this knowingly or in a planned way. I think when she gets threatened or something fluctuates in her- and I'm not sure she always notices it- she fabricates something, which regulates her. I knew something was wrong when I was a child, but I didn't have a clear distinction between truth and fabricating myself until I got a bit older. Simply having one of these parents means lots of these habits or behaviours may simply be transferred to us.

[katrina1980]

Deleted.....

[katrina1980]

Deleted.....

[katrina1980]

Sorry guys I deleted my last two posts as, after I posted, I felt extremely uncomfortable having all that sensitive and personal info about myself publicly posted.

 

I will talk all this out with my therapist.

 

Thanks again for all your insight and wisdom!

 

G'night all.

[ParisPaulette]

PP, how did you overcome your "cool chick" mentality? You just one day got fed up and decided the hell with it?

 

Basically I probably just stumbled my way through enough bad and wrong relationships to finally overcome the idea that if my wanting a partner to communicate with me, to live a life with me, to not disappear on me or do things that weren't okay with me was going to cause them to leave at the first sign of my standing up for myself - then I was better off alone, because sooner or later it would implode anyways. Plus therapy, plus a major life shakeup or three, plus a couple of near death experiences (not recommended) and maybe just getting older and realizing that I could break up and not have it break me helped.

 

One other thing and I'm totally going to own it, I was probably a commitment-phobe most of my life and so yes, until I got past that I wasn't really choosing the right relationships. Not every commitment-phobe out there is open about it or a love 'em and leave 'em type. Some of them, like me for a very long time, just kind of semi-consciously try to have relationships with people that are all wrong for us. And keep repeating that pattern.

 

I think you're going to be okay, because you've started to question all of this and your own role and that should lead you to the steps of what it is you DO want. And that helps.

 

And the other thing I push constantly is that you need your own life, a life that is full of your own accomplishments and things that make you happy, that has nothing to do with having a partner. I've found one is just less vulnerable to settling for anything when you have enough other things in your life and other people who make you happy. Life is not all about just being one half of a couple and there is no other meaning or purpose to life, although that's kind of the message that gets shoved at us by mass media.

[Twalker]

Well, I used to do that whole "Yeah, I don't care, I'm that cool chick who will make no demands on you, but give it my 200 percent no matter what red flag you raise." And I did this on and off through pretty much most of my relationship history and it was a failure. I also did do the needy insecure jealous partner routine and that was and is equally unhealthy.

 

Finally, I got fed up with all of it and just decided, "These are my boundaries, this is what I find acceptable and this is what I don't. Now, either you match all of those things and have no major red flags OR you don't and there's the door. I will not care how much I like you, how much my feelings matter, if we do not match on these things important to ME we do not match and I'm done tangling with yet another wrong relationship."

 

No big surprise I finally found the healthiest sanest relationship I've ever had following that decision. And yes, I did send a few guys away before I met him.

 

Being that fun girl who makes zero demands and accepts being on call whenever a guy feels like contacting you and simply gone when he doesn't will definitely get you the commitentphobes and the guy who wants fun with no strings, and that's great if that's what you want too. But if it isn't and you want someone to commit to you and be committed to there has to be mutual boundaries and mutual give and take. And yeah, you're probably going to have to tell of few fellas (or gals if guys are reading this) goodbye if and when you see these things don't match.

 

And sooner rather than later with no compromise is probably smarter. Sure some can call that being picky. I just call it having standards and not settling for any warm body that walks through the door.

 

So maybe it's time to stop and take a long hard look at what YOU want, what is okay with YOU, what YOUR boundaries are and aren't. Then focus on finding people who are a good match for that and letting everyone else out back into the pond so to speak if they can't step up. There is such a thing as being too accommodating and selfish people, the narcissistic, the commitmentphobic, the just plain into using others love that type of person, because of how much they can get away with and don't have to give anything in return.

 

And yes, I am now truly myself and anyone who doesn't like it can leave. I am getting old enough, mortality has shown me that it breathes down everyone's neck, I don't want to spend the rest of my life with people who are not on the same page as me. And that more than worrying about being yourself or not yourself or having to hide your feelings or put on an act is what you should be focusing on.

 

How???? How do u say it?. Ok here are my boundaries and what I want and don't want. I am so in that situation w the guy I'm dating ! It has been subtle but now the patterns show. I am that one on call when he needs me or wants to see me. He has his son every other weekend. So his free weekends we have yet to ever plan anything except where I have planned. This is so confusing.

[bumblebeehive]

maybe you can teach me how to "play the game"!

[Hermes]

That's it Paulette.

 

" Life is not all about just being one half of a couple and there is no other meaning or purpose to life, although that's kind of the message that gets shoved at us by mass media."

[katrina1980]

That's it Paulette.

 

" Life is not all about just being one half of a couple and there is no other meaning or purpose to life, although that's kind of the message that gets shoved at us by mass media."

 

Hell yeah!

 

I am okay being on my own, more than okay!

 

Hell if I am honest, although my ex and I loved each other, AND lived together..... there was so much *space* ... I felt alone much of the time anyway.

 

Maybe someday I will get into it more; I have moved past it now, and ready to start anew!

[katrina1980]

maybe you can teach me how to "play the game"!

 

Not to make fun, but here I am trying to learn how NOT to play "the game"..... nine pages worth, while you want to learn how to play it!

 

On the irony.... lol

[reinventmyself]

maybe you can teach me how to "play the game"!

 

If you've been following this thread the entire theme is about being authentic and not playing games

[ParisPaulette]

You play the game by having a life outside of him. AND you just show him that by doing so. You don't hear from him by say Wednesday or Thursday about the weekend, well then you make plans of your own that weekend. When he calls you say, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear from you, so I assumed we weren't doing anything and I already have plans. Maybe next week, just let me know by Thursday if you want to do something over the weekend." And then you go and do other things and you stop making any plans with him until he reciprocates.

 

And if he doesn't reciprocate that tells you that he is either lazy or doesn't really care that much or both and you return to dating others and let him go.

 

A lot of this comes from simply deciding, "If I don't see a two-way street after X amount of time I'm out," and you do that. My particular timeline was a month to two months, that gave us time to see if it was going anywhere, I could observe how he treated other people (this is far, far, FAR more important than you have probably ever been told but it's massively important.) and then if within two months I found myself doing all the work I'd just stop making all the plans, and go do other things.

 

If you don't want to be on call all the time and the one always making plans then don't. That means you go about your life, you make your own plans, if they want your time they need to be willing to step up and ask you first BEFORE you or someone else does. And you never ever change your plans for them if they're on that type of behavior. Don't let him slide in at the last minute with an "Oh but I got us tickets tonight..." Your response should be, "That's great Hon, but I already promised my friend I'd go see her show and a group of us are going. You can come along if you like."

 

Last minute plans, those you can make when you are in an equal relationship. My husband can call me up and say, "Hey, I know you were meeting Friend tonight for dinner, but I got us all tickets to a show, ask her if she wants to come along," and for him I will change those plans. But he also knows enough to understand my time is valuable and I don't sit by no phone waiting for his or anyone else's call. And yes, with him I will originate things, because we both do. I don't find myself always making the plans or having him call me at the last minute repeatedly, but with other guys I dated? Oh yeah, that happened for a very long time. And it kept on until I changed my actions, because in the end all you can do is change how and what you do and people either learn and adjust accordingly or they don't.

 

And you have to be willing for that to happen.

 

Start there. And if this guy can't be bothered or never makes an effort then really what have you lost? Someone that you had to do all the work with and a one-sided relationship until he decides someone better comes along? That's not much of a loss and you need to examine why you're putting all of your eggs in only one basket in the first place, because no one person should ever be everything to you in your life.

 

Adopt the attitude, "Please, I deserve more," and start teaching people by way of actions, not words alone but actions, that you are not simply there at their behest, but have your own life and if they want to be part of it they need to put in some effort too.

 

P.S. This game such as it is, isn't really you playing at anything. This should be your authentic life and just what you do, because you DO have a life outside of just this person you're dating. See the video I just posted for more info on that.

[katrina1980]

You play the game by having a life outside of him. AND you just show him that by doing so. You don't hear from him by say Wednesday or Thursday about the weekend, well then you make plans of your own that weekend. When he calls you say, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear from you, so I assumed we weren't doing anything and I already have plans. Maybe next week, just let me know by Thursday if you want to do something over the weekend." And then you go and do other things and you stop making any plans with him until he reciprocates.

 

And if he doesn't reciprocate that tells you that he is either lazy or doesn't really care that much or both and you return to dating others and let him go.

 

A lot of this comes from simply deciding, "If I don't see a two-way street after X amount of time I'm out," and you do that. My particular timeline was a month to two months, that gave us time to see if it was going anywhere, I could observe how he treated other people (this is far, far, FAR more important than you have probably ever been told but it's massively important.) and then if within two months I found myself doing all the work I'd just stop making all the plans, and go do other things.

 

If you don't want to be on call all the time and the one always making plans then don't. That means you go about your life, you make your own plans, if they want your time they need to be willing to step up and ask you first BEFORE you or someone else does. And you never ever change your plans for them if they're on that type of behavior. Don't let him slide in at the last minute with an "Oh but I got us tickets tonight..." Your response should be, "That's great Hon, but I already promised my friend I'd go see her show and a group of us are going. You can come along if you like."

 

Last minute plans, those you can make when you are in an equal relationship. My husband can call me up and say, "Hey, I know you were meeting Friend tonight for dinner, but I got us all tickets to a show, ask her if she wants to come along," and for him I will change those plans. But he also knows enough to understand my time is valuable and I don't sit by no phone waiting for his or anyone else's call. And yes, with him I will originate things, because we both do. I don't find myself always making the plans or having him call me at the last minute repeatedly, but with other guys I dated? Oh yeah, that happened for a very long time. And it kept on until I changed my actions, because in the end all you can do is change how and what you do and people either learn and adjust accordingly or they don't.

 

And you have to be willing for that to happen.

 

Start there. And if this guy can't be bothered or never makes an effort then really what have you lost? Someone that you had to do all the work with and a one-sided relationship until he decides someone better comes along? That's not much of a loss and you need to examine why you're putting all of your eggs in only one basket in the first place, because no one person should ever be everything to you in your life.

 

Adopt the attitude, "Please, I deserve more," and start teaching people by way of actions, not words alone but actions, that you are not simply there at their behest, but have your own life and if they want to be part of it they need to put in some effort too.

 

This^ is gold! Pure gold.

[ParisPaulette]

This video is humorous, but it's also very, very true and very, very good advice. Check it out. I love her! And it's very close to my own philosophy now. [video=youtube;JwrJ-r4wBBE] ]

[katrina1980]

 

You play the game by having a life outside of him. AND you just show him that by doing so.

 

You don't hear from him by say Wednesday or Thursday about the weekend, well then you make plans of your own that weekend. When he calls you say, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear from you, so I assumed we weren't doing anything and I already have plans. Maybe next week, just let me know by Thursday if you want to do something over the weekend." And then you go and do other things and you stop making any plans with him until he reciprocates.

 

And if he doesn't reciprocate that tells you that he is either lazy or doesn't really care that much or both and you return to dating others and let him go.

 

 

PP, loved your post but I have a question re the bolded.

 

I am a pretty spontaneous person so if a man I was dating contacted me, let's say on Friday for a Saturday night date, I would normally accept (assuming I had not made other plans).

 

Is this really bad? Does it send him the wrong message or something?

 

Also, when I decline because I DO have other plans, is it necessary to add "I didn't hear from you so made other plans."

 

Doesn't this suggest that HE is my first priority but since I didn't hear from HIM.... I went ahead and made other plans?

 

I mean assuming we just started dating and NOT in a RL, why should he be my first priority?

 

Plus, he knows he should have contacted me sooner, does he really need ME to point that out to him?

 

I dunno it almost sounds like I am trying to guilt trip him or something. YOU didn't ask me out in time, so your loss, made other plans. That's kinda what it sounds like IMHO!

 

Wouldn't it be better to simply say "Oh shoot, I would love too, but I have already made other plans"! And offer alternative date for following week.

 

That is how I would do it.

 

Is this bad? If so, why?

 

Thanks!

[reinventmyself]

I hate playing games and at the same time I am pretty good about booking up my time.

So if someone calls me last minute, my plans are already made.

At the same time I wouldn't say no if I wasn't doing anything.

But I wouldn't make it a habit.

 

The guy I am dating asked me last minute to walk on the beach with him on Sunday. I honestly wasn't doing anything with anyone else, but I declined, not because it was short notice but rather I was enjoying my day to myself and didn't feel like switching gears.

 

He knows from experience to ask ahead of time. Monday morning he texts me `seeing your dance card gets booked up early, would you be interested in going to the air show next Saturday?'

 

Just keep busy then you aren't in a position to feel like you have to play any games.

 

And I don't say `I didn't hear from you, so . . " It sounds punishing.

You have a life. . you make plans that have nothing to do with him

[katrina1980]

I hate playing games and at the same time I am pretty good about booking up my time.

So if someone calls me last minute, my plans are already made.

At the same time I wouldn't say no if I wasn't doing anything.

But I wouldn't make it a habit.

 

The guy I am dating asked me last minute to walk on the beach with him on Sunday. I honestly wasn't doing anything with anyone else, but I declined, not because it was short notice but rather I was enjoying my day to myself and didn't feel like switching gears.

 

He knows from experience to ask ahead of time. Monday morning he texts me `seeing your dance card gets booked up early, would you be interested in going to the air show next Saturday?'

 

Just keep busy then you aren't in a position to feel like you have to play any games.

 

And I don't say `I didn't hear from you, so . . " It sounds punishing.

You have a life. . you make plans that have nothing to do with him

 

Did you read my very last post, right before yours?

 

The above is more in line with how I "play" it too, pretty much to the letter .... but especially your last paragraph (underlined).

 

I have not and don't believe I ever would say "I did not hear from you so...."

 

As I said before, sounds very guilt trippy.

[reinventmyself]

deleted. . . .

[ThatwasThen]

PP, loved your post but I have a question re the bolded.

 

I am a pretty spontaneous person so if a man I was dating contacted me, let's say on Friday for a Saturday night date, I would normally accept (assuming I had not made other plans).

 

Is this really bad? Does it send him the wrong message or something?

 

Also, when I decline because I DO have other plans, is it necessary to add "I didn't hear from you so made other plans."

 

Doesn't this suggest that HE is my first priority but since I didn't hear from HIM.... I went ahead and made other plans?

 

I mean assuming we just started dating and NOT in a RL, why should he be my first priority?

 

Plus, he knows he should have contacted me sooner, does he really need ME to point that out to him?

 

I dunno it almost sounds like I am trying to guilt trip him or something. YOU didn't ask me out in time, so your loss, made other plans. That's kinda what it sounds like IMHO!

 

Wouldn't it be better to simply say "Oh shoot, I would love too, but I have already made other plans"! And offer alternative date for following week.

 

That is how I would do it.

 

Is this bad? If so, why?

 

Thanks! you have boundaries in place then you do what Paris recommended and you don't worry about how he perceives your explanation. If he values you, he'll not call you last minute. You can't assume that any man (no any one) will get what you're doing without voicing it.

 

You asking those questions goes back to that thread yet again where you thought it was okay that the Op didn't contact her for four days to let her know whether he was free to take her out on the weekend or not. He was lost as to why she went missing. I know I would have gone missing too and I'm pretty sure Paris would have as well. Both of us appear to be with good men who love and respect us. I know I dated many moons ago but the rules haven't changed nor has the fact that when you have boundaries in place that you don't let down, you quickly get rid of the clowns and you therefore meet the good ones who show you in actions that they respect and value you.

 

Believe me, there was A-holes and players and serial daters in my day too. There just wasn't the internet dating thing that facilitated us meeting a gaggle of them.

[katrina1980]

If you have boundaries in place then you do what Paris recommended and you don't worry about how he perceives your explanation. If he values you, he'll not call you last minute. You can't assume that any man (no any one) will get what you're doing without voicing it.

 

You asking those questions goes back to that thread yet again where you thought it was okay that the Op didn't contact her for four days to let her know whether he was free to take her out on the weekend or not. He was lost as to why she went missing. I know I would have gone missing too and I'm pretty sure Paris would have as well. Both of us appear to be with good men who love and respect us.

 

I know I dated many moons ago but the rules haven't changed nor has the fact that when you have boundaries in place that you don't let down, you quickly get rid of the clowns and you therefore meet the good ones who show you in actions that they respect and value you.

 

Believe me, there was A-holes and players and serial daters in my day too. There just wasn't the internet dating thing that facilitated us meeting a gaggle of them.

 

Thanks TwT.

 

I do have boundaries, lots of them, but I am also pretty spontaneous, easy-going and busy myself, so yeah I guess I would let certain things (like what's mentioned above) slide with some of these guys that perhaps I shouldn't have.

 

Cause godonlyknows since I'm out there dating again after a LTR, I appear to be meeting a lot of game players and serial daters.

 

Whom I eventually walk away from, but maybe not soon enough.

 

That said though (and I updated a thread I have in the 'Attraction and Flirting' section yesterday for more info) last night I had a great date with a man I was involved with back in February but I ended it after one month as I realized it was too soon after my break-up to get seriously involved with someone. Good looking, successful attorney, very straight-forward, NOT an a-hole, NOT a game player!

 

Anyway, I had been thinking about him lately and knew if I wanted something to happen again, I would need to be the one to facilitate that.

 

Which I did, yesterday, by going to his office (next door to where I work - same building) and asked him for a drink after work. I normally don't ask men out, so that was hard... but I did it!

 

He escalated to drinks AND dinner.... so we went out last night and had an absolute blast!!

 

Timing (for me) is much better this time as I have definitely moved on from my ex.... and he has asked me out for Saturday night!

 

So things are definitely looking UP!!

[ThatwasThen]

Awesome and good for you for being brave and restarting that interest. Have fun and keep your heart off your sleeve...

[katrina1980]

Ya know... I am sitting here chuckling to myself remembering some of the **** these guys would pull on me.

 

One guy (dated him for about a month) back in July/August timeframe, whom I originally thought was a great guy, sent me an email meant for another woman! LOL

 

What in the world.... lol

 

Anyway, I nexted him after that, he asked me why so I told him that sending me that email, even if it was inadvertent, was just so lame.

 

That if he's gonna multi-date, fine, but please keep your women straight, thank you very much! LOL

 

He ended up telling me he did it because he didn't know how I felt about him, so sent it to gauge my reaction (i.e. stir jealousy or whatever)!

 

Bunch of BS if you ask me.

 

I dunno apparently I wasn't blowing up his phone enough (or at all!)... or chasing him (he didn't say this, just my take on why he did it assuming his reason was genuine.)

 

Anyway, he is just a sample of the type of guys I had been meeting and dating.... ugh.

 

I have many more stories than just that one!