Not sure if I should leave...

[confusedNdazed]

I've been married just about three years. About one year into the marriage my wife got a new job that she thought would be great and it turned out to be a soul-sucking environment for her. she became very miserable and depressed and I went into 'caretaker mode' which at first was okay, but then it started to turn into more of a martyr-type thing and I was struggling myself. I tried on occasion to talk to my wife about it but she was often so emotionally distraught and overwhelmed that she couldn't talk about it. About a year ago I asked her if she would be open to going to marital counseling and she didn't think there was any reason why we would need to. During that time period I started to seek other forms of distraction / healing. In all honesty some of them were healthy and some weren't. I started to play video games, I would go to meditation classes once a week and began masturbating on my own (sometimes while watching porn, sometimes without) it wasn't a daily or even a weekly thing because we would still have sex maybe once or twice a month. I felt like I was coping okay, though there were times where I wanted to just leave her. But I also love her very much and we had a great first several years together, so I don't want to lose a lifetime of love over a few bad years. fast forward to last week... she found a porn site on my phone that I had looked at the day before and got so upset and hurt. In the past she was engaged and broke off the wedding partly because her partner had a porn addiction (as in watching porn several times a day). she's now saying that I'm just like him, i'm just another dude that can't keep it in his pants. While I understand what I did is hurtful I feel like she's relating to me as if I am her past relationship and also disregarding the two years where I was really carrying the emotional load of trying to keep us happy and positive. Since then I've arranged two meetings with marital counselors and I'm exploring the possibility of a men's support group. this morning she tells me that I have no interest in acknowledging what she's going through...

 

I'm completely at a loss. I feel like I have acknowledged, apologized and am trying to take steps to process and mend our relationship, but I feel like she just wants to continue to be depressed about her life... first about the job and now about this. my big confusion is if I should just break it off or keep trying? help!

[Wiseman2]

You wisely ask her to go along to marital therapy and she refused. Now she's upset that you took matters in your own hands? There is a serious lack of communication/connection here. It sounds like it's all about her and her drama. Go to counselling on your own. It's only been 3 years and only one good one. Yes, serious consider getting legally separated for now and moving out.

if I should just break it off or keep trying?

[Clinton]

It's a bad relationship. Your needs aren't being met and she refuses to acknowledge there is a problem. Up to you how much you want to live like this but there are better relationships out there. I get the whole I love her thing, but love is never enough on it's own to make a relationship work.

[j.man]

She sucks the life out of you, she invades your privacy, and she's guilting you over taking advantage of man's God-given gift of rubbing one out to relieve some stress? You couldn't pay me to stay with this woman.

 

If she's refusing marital counseling and isn't willing to productively communicate otherwise, I'm afraid there's only one way to go and it's out the door. I'd cut your losses before any kids enter the picture.

[DancingFool]

What exactly do you mean caretaker martyr mode?

[confusedNdazed]

I do a disproportionate amount of the household stuff - food shopping, cooking, dishes, laundry, cleaning... she won't do those things on her own without me asking several times...

Another example - on her birthday i surprised her with a trapeze lesson (the one from Sex and the City) followed by reservations at a nice cocktail bar followed by dinner and long walk home over Brooklyn Bridge... last Valentines day I surprised her with a private pottery lesson

On my birthday she had my mother buy us tickets to a show and we ate takeout (all with my mother who stayed the night at our place.) don't get me wrong, I love my mother, but damn...

[DancingFool]

All I see are two big issues. One is super common - division of chores. Pretty much every single marriage or live in relationship has conflicts over that at one point or another. Stop doing things and start communicating - meaning sit down make a list and divide the chores. Only exception would be if you are working less or making less than she is. In which case you are the housewife and should be pulling the bigger load of domestic chores. If you are both working roughly equally, then you divide up the chores equally as well. There is also going to be conflict over whoever is the cleaner of the two. Basically, if her need to keep things at a certain level is lower than yours, inevitably you'll end up cleaning more simply because the other person doesn't get the need. Usual solution to that is paying for a housecleaning service to come in and take the load off the both of you however often you might need that - once a week, couple times a month, etc.

 

The second thing is it seems that you are doing all these things with an expectations of a return on your investment. Look, either do it because you want to and that is a benefit in and of itself to you or don't do anything much so you don't build up this resentment when your expectations are not going to be met of a return. Doing things and expecting an ROI is going to kill every single relationship you ever set foot into. The other part of this is again communication along the lines of my b-day is a big deal and I expect you to make a big deal out of it or else I'll be upset about it. If you don't communicate that message to your partner, they can't read your mind or know what you want and need. They'll only do what they think is good enough so if it's not good enough for you, you must learn how to express that in a constructive way.

[j.man]

On my birthday she had my mother buy us tickets to a show and we ate takeout (all with my mother who stayed the night at our place.) don't get me wrong, I love my mother, but damn...

Wait... your wife's gift to you was to solicit your mother to pay to take you all out? Hahahaha. I would have dumped her before the show and just enjoyed the night out with my mom.

[confusedNdazed]

We work the same 9-5. I make a bit more money, but I also do some side jobs occasionally to have extra money. She actually complains more about the cleanliness than I do but then does nothing about it. Its not like she is angry at me for the cleaning, its just like a negative complaining and then she does nothing about it. I hear you regarding the communication and I think I could be better at that, but it just starts to feel like I have to be so explicit about everything and push and then all of the sudden its the fault of my communication style that she doesn't contribute. At what point is it also on her to buck up and pay attention and notice me.

A few months ago I told her that we have to split the cooking/cleaning responsibility and that if I cook she has to clean dishes (and vice versa) - she did it for about a month, then stopped. I literally left the dishes in the sink for two days after cooking and she didn't clean a thing until two days later I said something. Also, I totally hear you on the birthday thing and I told her after the fact that it felt like a crummy choice that didn't take into consideration what I would enjoy. She already knows that I like to do fun stuff on my birthday - the first birthday after we got married she threw a huge surprise house party with friends and organized a margarita bar out of our kitchen... it was totally awesome and fun, is it on me to keep telling her every year? its like the wind is out of her sails

[j.man]

It's not even the crappy selection of venues that's the issue. It's the fact that her gift to you was having your own mother pay for something. Bless your mother's heart for playing along, but mine would have straight laughed in her face.

[tattoobunnie]

So if she was awesome before the job, why doesn't she quit, or find a new job? I would discuss a budget, so you two can hold tight while she gets new employment. Sometimes, it's just that easy.

 

Wow, if people divorced over video games and masturbating, that 30% would turn into um, 70%? But I get that you both agreed to those terms, then did it behind her back. Porn and video game addicition is no joke.

 

You don't need counseling, unless you aren't able to communicate here. It just sounds like she feels she has to stay at the job. What I would suggest is support her (mentally and fiscally) in finding a new job.

 

Also, caretaker = enabler. I'll admit, two years ago, I was complaining about the same things about work, and my hubby let me know it was kind of monotonous. I then recognized how monotonous it was, then stopped talking about it. Pretty happy at work now (same job).

[Wiseman2]

Do you think she did this to defy you?

I told her that we have to split the cooking/cleaning responsibility and that if I cook she has to clean dishes.I literally left the dishes in the sink for two days after cooking and she didn't clean a thing until two days later I said something.

[reinventmyself]

So if she was awesome before the job, why doesn't she quit, or find a new job? I would discuss a budget, so you two can hold tight while she gets new employment. Sometimes, it's just that easy.

 

Wow, if people divorced over video games and masturbating, that 30% would turn into um, 70%? But I get that you both agreed to those terms, then did it behind her back. Porn and video game addicition is no joke.

 

You don't need counseling, unless you aren't able to communicate here. It just sounds like she feels she has to stay at the job. What I would suggest is support her (mentally and fiscally) in finding a new job.

 

Also, caretaker = enabler. I'll admit, two years ago, I was complaining about the same things about work, and my hubby let me know it was kind of monotonous. I then recognized how monotonous it was, then stopped talking about it. Pretty happy at work now (same job).

 

I vote for staying in personal therapy.

All these things you mention are symptoms of a larger issue. Don't get bogged down into splitting hairs.

 

Counseling will help you stay on track and at least one of you is taking the high road and working towards a healthier outlook on things.

Unfortunately as you continue to grow, she'll be left further behind. (This is how my marriage ended)

Maybe she'll take notice and join you. OR . . counseling will show you the way out.

 

And in leaving, if you choose to you,will have the peace of mind that you did everything you could to make a difference in your marraige.

[zeino]

ConfusedNdazed hi,

 

I'm sorry for what both of you are going through and things seem to be going downhill, a career problem of your spouse turning into a cause for marital problems. It seems to me that the issue is one of resilience for your wife; many adults feel terrible in some workplaces but are able to improve their situation by looking for other work etc. Some people who are resilient enough can do this naturally. Others may need more support to achieve this ultimately by building resilience and if that resilience is not built, they may end up with totally dysfunctional lives - which not only affects marriages but also the quality of life of individuals involved. There may be many reasons why resilience is not there - it may be many things from depression to personality disorders- but ultimately marital counseling may not be the first line of help and support here. However, it can be helpful once the real causes are more or less found out and then the couple may work the effects of this issue and others in marital therapy. Seeking that help is your spouse's responsibility, and it is your responsibility to decide what to do if she is not owning that responsibility for your own health. Here, I truly believe you would benefit from individual therapy as much as she would as you sound very worn out and sharing your life with your own therapist may help you access the causes of why this is happening (for both parties) quicker than in marital therapy - where certain diagnoses may be delayed due to many things. From then on you may have certain options as to how to improve your life, what to expect from yourself and from your spouse. And this would bring you closer to different support groups in the light of what your individual therapist says. You may also find answers to whether you are a rescuer, whether she wants to act with learned helplessness for instance etc etc. But these dynamics always take two and you are responsible for your part. Maybe this encourages your wife to seek help individually as well. I wish both of you the best.

[confusedNdazed]

So if she was awesome before the job, why doesn't she quit, or find a new job?

she wanted to stay in order for a pension to vest -- she thought it was three years which is coming up soon, but just read the paperwork again and its five... my jaw dropped and I told her that it wasn't worth the money since it was ruining her/our life. I've definitely worked my connections as much as possible to get her interviews or prof development opportunities, which got her into a leadership program and a few interviews, but nothing has materialized yet. I don't make enough money now to support us both, when we were dating she did get out of a job and I had to support us for two months, which was fine because our expenses were lower back then...

 

It just feels like her world begins and ends with me and since we got married she doesn't maintain her own hobbies or friendships separate from couples friends and my friends.

[Itchy]

Oh look another marriage seemingly going up the creek without an oar in sight.

 

All you can do is exhaust every available option available to save this marriage and once you have exhausted every available option to no avail, it's time to admit defeat and walk away. One person cannot save a relationship and to be honest if only one person is fighting for the relationship/marriage, then what's the point? You're wasting your time.

 

Maybe a divorce is the only option left as sad as that is.

[Wiseman2]

Changing her job will not improve things. Why? Because everyday people go to lousy jobs they hate to put food on the table and they may have great marriages and love their spouses dearly.

 

I think both of you focusing on this as if it's the real issue in a folie à deux manner is keeping the focus off the real issues which are harder and much more painful to face and that is you don't get a long and the marriage is crumbling on many fronts. By pretending it's her job, it makes the problem seem temporary and easily remedied, rather than facing the facts.

she wanted to stay in order for a pension to vest

[tattoobunnie]

since we got married she doesn't maintain her own hobbies or friendships separate from couples friends and my friends.

 

If she's depressed, why would she maintain hobbies or friends? I have two kids, and zero time for hobbies, and usually only do stuff with friends with my entire family. I think you both just need some other and new things to talk about.

 

Now when you mentioned marriage counseling, did you tell her why you want to go, or were you vague as to why to avoid confrontation? The fact that you went into caretaker mode tells right away that you have a habit of dating wounded lazy birds. It's your way of feeling in control. Superior as well. Well, I hate to bust your balls, but marriage is for better or worse. What you both need is intervention. I mean, a fun intervention. Make plans for dates. Go on trips together. You need to play with the variables here. I know you planned a nice date, but that was for special occassions, right? How often do you two do things together, like exercise classes, or cooking together, or find a new activity together like hiking or town hopping, whatever, something different that you both can experience together. She has her head stuck in her bum about work, but when she comes home, all she has to look forward to is chores. Now I will share, my husband is the biggest slob, I mean, holy cow, clothing piles and dirt everywhere, and soda cans piling in his car. But he cooks, and does all the outside chores, and plumbing, and house fixing, and buys most of the groceries. I clean the kitchen, pay all the bills, make the investments, and breastfeed our second kid. The only thing we split evenly is taking care of the dog, and we both work very demanding jobs. An up until I had the second kid, I was working nights consulting a company in Australia along with my companies in the morning. My point here, work out what chores she wants to do, and can be accountable for...maybe she likes to shop more, or garden, or decorate, or clean the bathroom, do they recycling...chores don't always have to split 50/50. You go with what works for the person.

 

And trust me, considering how shallow some of the things you mentioned that were wrong, it sounds like you just need to communciate clearly with examples, and feelings, and to stop enabling her when she babbles on about how sucky her day was. I'd actually, say, okay, I know who can suck, so I'm going to give you 5 minutes to discuss what was sucky about it, then we are going out to get some fresh air (or cook together, or whatever), and have some fun.

[tattoobunnie]

And I have seen countless people do a 180 when they change jobs. Feeling no respect, to feeling trapped, fearful, degraded, overworked, underpaid, a new job can make ALL the difference. Sometimes though, they stick out at a job cuz they don't want to let down their partner. Then, they just spend the entire time complaining and feeling affected by it.

[confusedNdazed]

Now when you mentioned marriage counseling, did you tell her why you want to go, or were you vague as to why to avoid confrontation? The fact that you went into caretaker mode tells right away that you have a habit of dating wounded lazy birds. It's your way of feeling in control. Superior as well.

 

I think there is definitely some truth to that...The first time I suggested counseling I was vague and not really confident about it. We have talked before about her needing help to snap out of her funk. She did try therapy about a year ago and stopped after a couple of months because she didn't like the therapist.

 

When I spoke with her a few months ago I was more specific... we had been talking about kids and I said that I think we have to go to couples therapy first and work out the imbalance in our relationship because I feel like I carry a disproportionate burden of the household and emotional aspects of our relationship. She got very upset saying that I was attacking / threatening her.

 

Now, she just told me that the reason she doesn't want to go to therapy is because she feels like its where relationships go to die. I told her that our relationship is already dying so we might as well give it a chance. We'll see what happens.

[tattoobunnie]

Granted better, but yikes. If you tell her the relationship is already dying, what's motivation for trying to fix it? I'd evaluate the phrase you just told her. You could say, "I feel like it's dying, because..." When you point blank says it's dying, that's just crushing especially when she's not sure how to get out of the rut.

[Wiseman2]

Wow...like a hospice for marriages, huh...lol? Sorry this sounds like intense denial and that sticking her in the sand feels safer.

she doesn't want to go to therapy is because she feels like its where relationships go to die.

[confusedNdazed]

Granted better, but yikes. If you tell her the relationship is already dying, what's motivation for trying to fix it? I'd evaluate the phrase you just told her. You could say, "I feel like it's dying, because..." When you point blank says it's dying, that's just crushing especially when she's not sure how to get out of the rut.

 

I hear that it is a bit harsh, but if we end up not going because she's afraid of what might come out, or just generally afraid that therapy is where relationships die... that's not cool. Also, by her saying that she's afraid of the relationship dying but then not wanting to do anything about it doesn't communicate to me that she's actually committed to put some work in.

[tattoobunnie]

She said, "counseling is where relationships go to die." She did not say, "I don't want to do anything about our relationship."

 

Then you say, "Our relationship is dying." You did not say, "it will help me express things I not sure how to express to you." You could definiately brush up your skills on communicating clearly. It's not just a given thing...I had to get and learn tools on how to communicate as well, and how to with different people. Honestly, I went to Landmark 7 years ago, made a giant difference!

 

As much as we think we're good listeners, people tend to focus on what they have to say, or too busy listening to that inner voice that poops on everything.

[j.man]

Just came back to say I was making lunch and it just popped back into my head that your girlfriend seriously considered it her gift to you to have your mom buy you and her tickets. I had a bit of a laugh. That right there is grade A comedy. Phewwwwwwww