Is marriage worth it?

[Seraphim]

heres link for other details. i imagine the stats in US are similar

 

]

 

That is still not 50%.

 

I have never been one to live by statistics. Statistics tell me I should be dead or a homeless drifter and I am not one. Statistics didn't make me. Statistics didn't make my marriage either. My husband and I did.

[Capttrae]

I hope it is, I'm fixin to try it again

[Pixels]

i agree with many of your comments. But lets examine a case study: Father loses custody of child. Court gives limited visitation rights. After some time, the child dislikes his/her father due to influence from the mother or due to other reasons. Father is now emotionally scarred.

 

Perhaps this is part of reason for lopsided suicide rate for men vs women.

 

This just isn't a realistic case scenario... To even begin to propose this you would need a correlation between suicide rates and previously-married men, men in marriages with children, data on denial of visitation rights, previous mental-health history, etc. If you have references to such data/study I would be extremely interested in seeing it (I advocate correction of male rights and equality, while recognizing and advocating correction of female rights and equality... Neither are more important, and I feel neither are necessarily more intrinsic to society).

 

However, biologically women sacrifice more resources to reproduce than the male partner (money is not a biological resource)... In a strictly evolutionary sense we see cases of this which typically lead to a sex that "chooses" and a sex that "competes". Typically the female is the choosing gender... This is more a by-product of our evolutionary definitions of "female". In extreme cases (ie. seahorses and pipefish) the male hedges bets of reproduction by reducing the cost of reproduction (by ways of mitigating the cost of protecting and raising offspring). In other examples (ie. cuttlefish and some cichlids) we see males of smaller stature adopting more passive responses to competition to ensure genetic distribution. In certain animals where basic health is a privilege and offspring responsibility is shared (ie. freshwater birds) it isn't atypical to see the male as the "choosey" gender.

 

The problem is, such data can only apply to the observed populations in question... It would be nonsense to take data from one population and apply it on a global scale... Nevermind cross-species, and especially not when you consider the complexity of social structure and gender roles between cultures...

 

Yes, male suicide rates are higher (as are heart-disease rates, and almost all other causes of death). There is some evidence of a genetic predisposition. There's also evidence that men are less likely to seek help early.

 

Yes, I feel strongly that modern law hasn't adapted to modern social roles and still exhibits a strong gender-bias in issues of violence and child-rights. Having multiple close personal experiences with this (through both myself and co-workers) I can attest to particular unequal distributions of responsibility in cases of pregnancy, and can attest to unequal treatment of the Canadian law system towards men accused of domestic violence which have resulted in incarceration and long-term sufferages...

 

Every system has flaws, every system has loopholes, and I personally feel it's impossible to create empirical data that satisfies the eyes of law and our concepts of order when biological equality between sexes forces both genders to assume a degree of unspecified, yet allocated responsibilities...

 

I personally feel that male suicide rates root much deeper into our social structure. It has nothing to do with women, however I would point out that young girls currently receive more support than young boys through traditional teacher/student relations, and I would argue that there's a generalized assumption that young boys don't struggle with the same identity and self-worth issues that girls experience. At the same time I would like to state that it's a widely recognized phenomenon that younger generations of women are strongly outweighing male populations in university, for nearly every field...

 

I would further point to social examples where young boys (and grown men) are excluded from services (ie. women-only gyms, women-only time at unisex gyms), further harbouring the social sub-text.

 

I guess my point is, male suicide is a social pandemic... The causes are varied and wide. Some evidence suggests basic genetics... Of course genetics aren't the only factor... Historically the gap has been attributed to medical awareness, and acceptance/conformity with medical requirements.

 

Personally, I feel there's a deeper gender-inequality in which men are assumed a particular social position which many aren't naturally inclined towards, and which is less socially favoured for them to adopt...

 

We're dealing with social advances at a rate which empowers both genders (and more recently, reinforces differences between genders) to a degree that we've never previously experienced.... We're essentially trying to fix old problems through a completely different lens...

 

It's my own personal opinion that boys and men suffer their own identity crisis which is largely ignored.

 

However, I'm not disregarding the state of social treatment towards women...

[youngman23]

I remember reading something in the UK, about suicide rates in men and women!

 

More blokes commit suicide than ladies! And it boiled down to the fact that women are more likely to seek help and discuss there issues! But men on the other hand feel like they cannot speak to someone as its not "manly" men just bottle it up and crack on with it!

 

Its quite sad to be honest, that in todays world blokes still think its not good to discuss there problems!

[TMifune]

Marriage with a prenuptial agreement . Problem solved.

 

I don't know about in Europe, but in the US prenuptial agreements are routinely nullified by the the courts.

[dias]

I don't know about in Europe, but in the US prenuptial agreements are routinely nullified by the the courts.

Can i ask why?

Nonetheless ,if this is the case you just cohabit.

[Seraphim]

Can i ask why?

Nonetheless ,if this is the case you just cohabit.

 

In most of Canada if you cohabit for a year you are considered married. Therefore your assets will be distributed evenly by the court even if you are not legally married.

[DoF]

I love my marriage. It's been 20 years and I'm one happy man! Mostly thanks for my great wife but also due to hard work from both of us (combination of a lot of things). But we started with NOTHING (very early/young) so there was nothing on the line/no wealth etc.

 

Would I ever get married again? No. Mostly because our legal system is so swayed and unfair. But that wouldn't prevent me from having a long term relationship (which IS what marriage is at the end of the day). Marriage is simply a legal/government/religious seal. All of the things I have 0 belief in or care NOTHING about.

 

 

 

So when women push men towards a marriage, one has to ask themselves, if long term relationship IS a marriage, what is it that the person is striving for by getting a LEGAL commitment from government and religious institutions. And most importantly, re evaluate the person in front of you and figure out why they take those 2 seriously (cause that is a much deeper issue hehe)

[TMifune]

Can i ask why?

Nonetheless ,if this is the case you just cohabit.

 

Well, here's an article from Forbes on the topic:

/

 

1. The agreement is fraudulent.

2. The agreement was coerced, signed under duress or signed without mental capacity.

3. The paperwork wasn’t properly filed in the first place.

4. You signed without proper legal representation.

5. The agreement contains ridiculous provisions . . . or is simply too lopsided.

 

These conditions don't necessarily have to be true., someone just needs to make a compelling argument about why one of them is true.

 

Also, if the prenup contains provisions for both parties, if one of those parties can be shown to have violated their provisions then they may lose any contractual protection with regard to the things they didn't uphold.

[dias]

In most of Canada if you cohabit for a year you are considered married. Therefore your assets will be distributed evenly by the court even if you are not legally married.

What? This is crazy. It's a woman's world nowadays.

[TMifune]

I recommend the documentary Divorce Corp for anyone curious. They really highlight how divorce is an industry now, complete with myriad professionals who have financial interest in making it as drawn-out and complicated as possible. I think the average divorce costs over $20K in the US.

[Seraphim]

What? This is crazy. It's a woman's world nowadays.

 

Why is it a woman's world? Every single married woman I know works. My mom made more than my dad. My ex sister-in-law makes $130,000 a year . My brother about the same. And women who don't work outside the home ARE working. You want someone to look after kids 24/7, wash clothes,make meals, clean the house, pay bills, drive people around? That would cost more than you make. It is still work.

[Seraphim]

For instance I work in childcare and I make $18 an hour. Probably The average cost of daycare for an infant , it is probably around $1200 a month and that is 8-4. You want anything else well you just start racking that up.

[dias]

I am not completely sure about the prenup in Europe but i am pretty sure cohabitation doesn't pose a threat for your future paycheck.

[Snny]

Statistics are usually skewed, imperfect research data that doesn't count other factors. They're not designed to tell you how to act, but how to think. I've read multiple scholar journals to know when evidence-base practices/statements are justified or tossed.

 

What? This is crazy. It's a woman's world nowadays.

Ya know... Considering that women didn't have equal rights or legal advocacy until less than 100 years ago... And in many countries today where women are treated as second class citizens and given hardly ANY welfare... I fail to sympathize with this statement.

[Seraphim]

I am not completely sure about the prenup in Europe but i am pretty sure cohabitation doesn't pose a threat for your future paycheck.

 

Unless you have children there is no threat to your future pay cheque. And if you have kids absolutely you should pay for them whether you're a man or a woman. If people don't want threats to their income ,bag it up ,sew it up ,tie it up or rip it out,whatever you got to do.

[Moontiger]

Not as simple as it seems. As many others have pointed out the often quoted 50% is not accurate. It's closer to 30% still high but not near 50%. More over, the rate spicked in late 20th century because women and men were finally given the power to leave unhappy marriages.

 

Courts still favor women overall but it's slowly getting better.

 

The ultimate answer to your question is: for some it is, for some not. I'm all for prenup a with a cheating clause. If you cheat, even emotionally, the other person gets almost everything! Lol.

[dias]

Why is it a woman's world? Every single married woman I know works. My mom made more than my dad. My ex sister-in-law makes $130,000 a year . My brother about the same. And women who don't work outside the home ARE working. You want someone to look after kids 24/7, wash clothes,make meals, clean the house, pay bills, drive people around? That would cost more than you make. It is still work.

Well i don't know Canadians apart from an aunt who worked her whole life(she is pensioner now) and how things are there but still men generally make more money than women.So yes it's unfair. Of course if a woman has a good career there is no reason to be afraid but this is not the case generally.Stay at home mom is a full time job ,sure ,but kids go to the kindergarten at the age of 5 . Then what?

[dias]

Unless you have children there is no threat to your future pay cheque. And if you have kids absolutely you should pay for them whether you're a man or a woman. If people don't want threats to their income ,bag it up ,sew it up ,tie it up or rip it out,whatever you got to do.

We are not talking about kids. Of course you will pay for the kids and if it needs to you are going to work 24/7 in order to provide them the essential. Who doesn't want to pay for his kids?Only stupid incompetent guys.

[Seraphim]

Well i don't know Canadians apart from an aunt who worked her whole life(she is pensioner now) and how things are there but still men generally make more money than women.So yes it's unfair. Of course if a woman has a good career there is now reason to be afraid but this is not the case generally.Stay at home mom is a full time job ,sure ,but kids go to the kindergarten at the age of 5 . Then what?

Well, that's between the married couple. For instance for most of my married life I worked full-time. However my son has a disability so as he got older he needed more help so I went down to working part time. I was the more logical choice because my husband makes far more money than I do . I understand all my son's difficulties and my husband's job takes him away at a moment's notice for up to six or nine months at a time depending. He was also a way of working for five years and we only saw him two days in every 14 for 5 years. During that time I was a one man show looking after our child, other than financially. So say if five years down the road my husband wants a divorce and wants to cut me free without a cent is that fair? Uuuuuuhhhhh hell no.

[dias]

Statistics are usually skewed, imperfect research data that doesn't count other factors. They're not designed to tell you how to act, but how to think. I've read multiple scholar journals to know when evidence-base practices/statements are justified or tossed.

 

 

Ya know... Considering that women didn't have equal rights or legal advocacy until less than 100 years ago... And in many countries today where women are treated as second class citizens and given hardly ANY welfare... I fail to sympathize with this statement.

So know that the "repressed" party is men , everything is all right?

[dias]

Well, that's between the married couple. For instance for most of my married life I worked full-time. However my son has a disability so as he got older he needed more help so I went down to working part time. I was the more logical choice because my husband makes far more money than I do . I understand all my son's difficulties and my husband's job takes him away at a moment's notice for up to six or nine months at a time depending. He was also a way of working for five years and we only saw him two days in every 14 for 5 years. During that time I was a one man show looking after our child, other than financially. So say if five years down the road my husband wants a divorce and wants to cut me free without a cent is that fair? Uuuuuuhhhhh hell no.

Well i know it's not that simple(and your case is a little bit different) but let's be honest , laws favor women almost in every case.

[Seraphim]

Well i know it's not that simple(and your case is a little bit different) but let's be honest , laws favor women almost in every case.

 

I will agree that the law is a bit slow in changing. But the laws were there to protect women for when they did not work. The flow of the law does not keep up with society. HOWEVER, if you are cohabiting or married to someone and have no children whatsoever I cannot see your future pay cheques beyond divorce being tapped because she wants to sit on her bottom and eat bonbons. It doesn't really work that way. And if you lived together or are married BOTH of you contributed to the common good so you should share it equally.

[redswim30]

. Marriages die, because too many people either didn't put enough time and effort into making sure they were marrying the right person to begin with OR they got married then drifted apart because the attitude was "Meh, I don't have to do anything else, end game, it's done."

QUOTE]

 

SO MUCH THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On my second marriage now, I can tell you that 90% of it is just marrying the right person.

 

My first marriage so was bad, second is incredible and no work at ALL!

 

Something I now like to say, " Don't marry someone you wouldn't want to divorce". It sounds weird, I know. Here's what I mean- How would this person treat you when you don't do "what they say", would this person still show you compassion and love when you are at odds. Can you work through an argument calmly, maturely, and fairly?

If not, then you probably shouldn't marry them.

 

And I agree, too many people think it's about the wedding, not the marriage. Sadly, I've seen a TON of women fall into this trap. They take their husbands for granted and often become nagging, rude, disrespectful and completely unappreciative. Then are shocked when their husband wants a divorce.

(Don't get me wrong, men can do this too, I've just personally seen it MUCH more with women) In Particular, women who marry a "nice guy" and have kids with him.

I often hear, " He's a nice guy, he'll never leave me and the kids. It doesn't matter how I treat him" Umm, yes it DOES!!!!!

 

Is marriage worth it? You get nothing in life without taking risks, and nothing in life is a guarantee. You can "protect" yourself by never putting yourself out there with relationships or anything else, but you also won't reap the rewards either.

 

There are pros and cons to everything you do or don't do in life, it just depends on which pros and cons you want and feel that you can deal with, respectively.

[journeynow]

[h=1]Is marriage worth it?[/h]It depends on who you marry, who you are in the marriage, what you put into it, how you live and grow, what it means to you.