What's the female equivalent of a Nice Guy(TM)?

[sidburn]

It's generally agreed that a Nice Guy™ is usually a closet misogynist who think that girls owe them a relationship or sex because they are so "nice" to them and complain frequently about friend zone this, girls go for jerks that. What is the female equivalent of this?

 

I would say it's probably a girl with Special Snowflake Syndrome who thinks the world owes her a favor because of how selfless, loyal, dedicated, etc. she is to a guy, or who demands to be treated like a princess. I recently broke up with such a girl. What do you think?

[Edmund Exley]

Agreed by whom?

[Iggles]

I wouldn't say it's accurate to describe Nice Guys as misogynists.

 

The two qualities that come to mind are bitterness and a simplistic view of relationships. They believe by being "nice" the women they're attracted to/have crushes on/want to sleep with should return their interest. These women should dump their boyfriends and turn down guys who actually have the guts to ask them out because the Nice Guy has known her longer.. Yeah, no!

 

Female equivalent is bitter about men and has little understanding why her relationships don't work out.

[mhowe]

Your "nice guy" 'is a passive and inexperienced dater who feels entitled to a woman's attention simply based on the fact that he likes her. I don't think he is a closet misogynist. I think he is clueless about women.

[FlashEng1]

Agreed by whom?

 

"Generally" .. as in by the General public.. As in "society"... (which yeah yeah, we know 'society' changes from group of people to group of people).. archetypical... link removed (elementary reference)

 

 

Anywho:

 

sidburn, your definition of a nice guy is quite harsh in my opinion, but okay. I disagree with the female equivalent being SSS... Firstly, because I believe a "Nice Guy" is a person who happens to fail at speaking up for himself accordingly, and therefore building up false hope off of misguided logic ("If I do this, then that should happen"... "If I am this way, then she will see"); not understanding that that isn't how life works at all. You aren't owed jack.. Versus a "jerk" who -- at the very core-- makes it known what he wants and, if only for short period of time, comes accross with a higher level of confidence.

 

So with that, I'd believe the female equivalent would be stereotyped as a woman who would have sex with a guy expecting a stable relationship but not getting one; but continuing to have sex in hopes of it becoming that, only to realize it's not happening, and ultimately blaming men for only wanting sex..

[Mari]

It's generally agreed that a Nice Guy™ is usually a closet misogynist who think that girls owe them a relationship or sex because they are so "nice" to them and complain frequently about friend zone this, girls go for jerks that. What is the female equivalent of this?

 

I would say it's probably a girl with Special Snowflake Syndrome who thinks the world owes her a favor because of how selfless, loyal, dedicated, etc. she is to a guy, or who demands to be treated like a princess. I recently broke up with such a girl. What do you think?

 

A nice guy would actually be nice and not complain about that, he would ensure that the girl gets the guy she wants whether it's him or not, if he was nice. I don't agree with this label and I don't know if there's a label for a girl that's like that.

 

I do think the movie Don Jon portrays what you're talking about. Romantic movies are very one sided and designed to make money off of women. Some women end up thinking a normal relationship is one where they are treated like a princess because romantic movies portray that as reality. I've heard of a woman breaking up because she saw Twilight and wanted a mind reader as her spouse. Heck, I'd want that too but it's a relationship, not finding and enslaving a mind reader.

[Sportster2005]

It's generally agreed that a Nice Guy™ is usually a closet misogynist who think that girls owe them a relationship or sex because they are so "nice" to them and complain frequently about friend zone this, girls go for jerks that. What is the female equivalent of this?

 

I would say it's probably a girl with Special Snowflake Syndrome who thinks the world owes her a favor because of how selfless, loyal, dedicated, etc. she is to a guy, or who demands to be treated like a princess. I recently broke up with such a girl. What do you think?

 

I think you should stop generalizing and stereotyping. It might amuse you, but it is not helpful.

[LikeWater]

I'm just sitting here wondering what the point of even discussing this is.

[hyden]

Its possible to be a nice guy and be assertive. Being assertive is the key. Women (in my experience) want men that have the confidence to go after what they want...nice or not. Took me many years to figure this out...lol.

[happy_snapper]

I've mentioned it before, but there is a third kind that a lot of people forget:

There's the nice guy, the bad guy and the good guy.

 

The good guy is like the nice guy, but he doesn't expect anything just because he's good.

"Nice guys" have a transaction based thought process: I do this = she'll do this.

The only thing the Nice Guy has going for him, is that he isn't a Bad Guy. Good Guys are also not Bad, but they're also able to treat women as people, rather than prizes.

[ParisPaulette]

I never heard that. The typical cliché for "Nice Guy" has always been doormat. What you're describing is just a sociopath/narcissist/plain old fashioned out and out a**hat of the "I know people won't accept me if I'm mean to them out of the gate, so I'm going to pretend to be nice and then let them have it between the eyes when I know they're hooked on me."

 

That is definitely not a nice guy. That said I have encountered people who did what you did that went out of their way to state they were "nice" or "good" over and over again. So now when someone really goes out of their way to repeat to me over and over "I'm a nice guy/good woman" or some variation on that and work it into the conversation to the point I want to snap, "Okay, I got that about ten times back after you'd said on your profile several times then in person several times, stop beating me over the head with how nice you are, okay?" And after that I would, still do move them out of my life since it's a clear case of "Methinks thou douth protest a bit too much, sir/madam about that whole niceness bit."

 

At the end of the day all the labels in the world won't help you determine whether the person is someone you want to let into your life or not. Actions count and red flags count and you being smart enough to not excuse away red flags counts probably the most of all coupled with enough self-respect that you just aren't going to put up with anyone using us or mistreating us. Most of us have a built-in BS detector if we listen to it and don't ourselves struggle with "I have to be nice here and not kick him out the door even though I just found naked pics and sexy talk with another woman/man on his phone/computer/etc." OR "I see these red flags, but he cries every time I tell him I don't want to see him again, so I feel guilty and keep giving him chances even though I know deep down this could turn into something really bad for me."

[Blue Spiral]

The biggest lie about nice guys is that we think we're "entitled" to sex or a relationship. happy_snapper is right: being nice is transactional, in a sense, but in the way that all social behavior is transactional. Treat others the way you want to be treated, etc. "Women want to be treated well, so, if I treat one well, maybe she'll be my girlfriend!" That was almost literally what my parents told me, when I was younger, and it's a message that pop-culture and the media constantly reinforces. I'm never sure why some women act like nice guys invented that concept from scratch.

 

Most people learn to treat others well (men treating women well in particular, due to certain social factors that I won't go into here). But not everyone has traits that are desirable to the other gender. So, we all learn the same lessons, but we don't all have the same strengths. For those of us who treat others well, but don't have those desirable traits...well, it's understandable that we'd get a little confused and frustrated. Adults don't dash children's and teenagers hopes; they say "If you want someone to love you, you have to treat them well", but they leave out "But if you don't have social skills or a good job or the right physical characteristics, how you treat them won't matter."

 

My first girlfriend always loved how I treated her, but I knew I didn't have the traits she wanted in a man. She left me for a guy that treated her horribly, but had the traits she wanted.

 

"nice guy" is ultimately code for "This man is perfectly inoffensive, but I don't want to **** him." But, instead of being mean and saying that, we get increasingly-convoluted codewords and excuses. It's like how men avoid saying "I don't want overweight women" by using the old "I want a woman with an active lifestyle" bit. I've sat accross from women that bent over backwards to avoid saying "I don't want to **** you", because they didn't want to hurt my feelings...but they came up with all these vague reasons/excuses that they really had to reach for, and those ideas did nothing but mess with my head. I'd rather have the truth, thanks.

 

I'm not really sure how the "doormat" accusation got dragged into things--maybe it's something to do with some men being more passive, when our "gender role" says we aren't supposed to be?

[happy_snapper]

The thing is, Nice Guys need to learn that women have desires too. Why should a girl date a guy she isn't attracted to, just because he's nice. That's where the self-entitled thing comes from. It's one-sided, the Nice Guy has the desires and expects the woman to uphold her end of what he expects.

 

Women do want to be treated well too. They won't stay long with a guy who treats her like ****. Some might be drawn to a guy like that due to their own insecurities, but it doesn't last.

[siegfri333]

 

My first girlfriend always loved how I treated her, but I knew I didn't have the traits she wanted in a man. She left me for a guy that treated her horribly, but had the traits she wanted.

 

"nice guy" is ultimately code for "This man is perfectly inoffensive, but I don't want to **** him."

 

 

Very accurate definition. A nice guy is a beta male. He's nice, but he doesn't have the qualities that make him desirable to most women.

The fact that most women (the "nice" ones i'd say) always come up with vague reasons for breakups like "it's not you it's me" only delays the realization that you're not enough in general.

 

I would add that a nice guy is also a man who didn't realize that he's only a second or third choice because he lacks beauty/success/friends/mental stability.

After he realized that, accepted it, and stopped hitting on women out of his league, he becomes "just another man".

[Blue Spiral]

The thing is, Nice Guys need to learn that women have desires too. Why should a girl date a guy she isn't attracted to, just because he's nice. That's where the self-entitled thing comes from. It's one-sided, the Nice Guy has the desires and expects the woman to uphold her end of what he expects.

 

Two points:

 

1. I personally think that men generally have lower expectations than women. That is to say, we're lower-maintenance. If we find a nice, attractive women, we're good. Women tend to have more advanced needs and wants. So, some of us mistakenly assume that women also have simple needs, and that just being nice/attractive will be enough to get a girlfriend.

 

2. Let me use myself as an example, here. When I was growing up, my old-fashioned parents taught me that women were fragile, and that women basically needed to be put on a pedestal, in terms of relationships. "Just treat her like a queen, and you'll be fine!" When I got a bit older, they told me that it was only boys that had those evil sexual urges, and that girls were pure and chaste and what have you. As a teenager, I (unsurprisingly) was terrified of girls and pretty much had nothing to do with them. So, when I became an adult, I had zero relationship experience and primitive social skills, and the idea that girls liked sex was something I'd yet to find out.

 

So, as a guy, I sometimes forget that women want more advanced things than men, and as a late bloomer, it took me a while to realize that girls could be just as horny as guys, and that things weren't as simple as my parents had told me. I think a lot of "nice guys" are in the same boat: we have to learn that not everyone is as low-maintenance as us, we have to compensate for the fact that we're far behind women and rival men in terms of social skills and relationship experience, and we have to separate what we've been taught from what's real.

 

Women do want to be treated well too. They won't stay long with a guy who treats her like ****. Some might be drawn to a guy like that due to their own insecurities, but it doesn't last.

 

That's not usually what I've seen...

[Batya33]

The mis-named Nice guy is simply a passive person/doormat. Same for a woman except the label is typically applied to a man who acts like a doormat in a dating or relationship context. Passivity isn't nice and can be quite self-absorbed - i.e. an over the top people pleaser who does that to get approval not to be thoughtful.

[yeawutever]

It's generally agreed that a Nice Guy™ is usually a closet misogynist who think that girls owe them a relationship or sex because they are so "nice" to them and complain frequently about friend zone this, girls go for jerks that. What is the female equivalent of this?

 

I would say it's probably a girl with Special Snowflake Syndrome who thinks the world owes her a favor because of how selfless, loyal, dedicated, etc. she is to a guy, or who demands to be treated like a princess. I recently broke up with such a girl. What do you think?

Probably the women that think that just because they move in with a guy, play house, cook and clean the house that the man suddenly owns them an engagement ring within the next year. Then when it's not happening and never will with that guy, the woman thinks waiting endlessly and playing the role of the ''a wife figure'' will get her man to propose...when in reality she's more than likely boring the man (he can see her desperation from miles away) and he sees there is nothing special in her other than a passive girl dreaming about the engagement ring.

[Elizza]

i think the majority of women want men that they to go after what they want and meet their desires

[Khaleesi86]

Whoa.

I love generalizations and stereotypes that have statistics to back them up, but as a Nice Guy groupie, your definition is nothing in comparison to mine.

 

To me (and I think my label is a little more accurate among adult women - not young girls) is a guy who genuinely enjoys doing things for his girlfriend or any important female in his life (mother, sister, etc.).

 

He will open doors for her because he LIKES to make her life easier, even if it is something simple; not because he expects a BJ later or hopes it will get him one.

He will put her in her place when she is out of line, but he doesn't feel the need to challenge her authority over him over every little detail. If she says she wants to get to the party at 7 instead of 6 because she needs more time to get ready and he wanted to go for 6, he'll wait, with no problem until 7 because that's a small detail. An hour, really? He's not going to tell her to hurry up or go without her.

These are just mundane examples.

The most important aspect of a Nice Guy is that he does anything and everything he can for his girlfriend AS LONG AS SHE APPRECIATES HIM. The second she turns into a princess or stops saying thank you or whatever she's doing for him stops he doesn't tolerate it.

 

I think the female equivalent is more in line with the Desperate Romantic girl a la GiGi on He's just not that into you.

She's the girl who wants to be a wife and mother so badly because she's such a loving person that she lets herself somewhat get walked all over.

She's the type to make a 6 course meal, have her BF cancelso he can go to the gym and not say anything about it.

[Misskitty16]

I don't see the "nice guy" or "nice girl" as a manipulative thing. Some people just don't have a strong backbone and get taken advantage of easily (i.e. doormats). I imagine they are aware of this and probably wish to change it, but either don't know how or perhaps are not strong enough (yet).

[John John]

Women find "nice guys" unattractive. We as men are more visual...once a woman passes the eye test, we won't not be attracted to them if they're nice.

 

So I would say: Nice guy = physically unattractive woman. Both tend to finish last.

[Misskitty16]

I am a reasonably attractive woman who has been told I am "too nice". I disagree that once a woman passes the eye test, that she is golden - if he sees her as too nice, this can be a sexual turn-off.

 

Nice guys and nice girls are equals. They can be attractive or unattractive. Their only common denominator is they are TOO nice. Doormats, over accommodating, easily available, easily forgiving. NO GENDER is going to find that attractive.

[John John]

I am a reasonably attractive woman who has been told I am "too nice". I disagree that once a woman passes the eye test, that she is golden - if he sees her as too nice, this can be a sexual turn-off.

 

Nice guys and nice girls are equals. They can be attractive or unattractive. Their only common denominator is they are TOO nice. Doormats, over accommodating, easily available, easily forgiving. NO GENDER is going to find that attractive.

 

You've been told by guys that you're "too nice?" Wow...that's...a new one. I have spoken with so many of my guy friends about this...we don't care if a woman is "too nice" at all. I definitely didn't mean to say (nor do I believe) that once a woman passes the eye test, she is golden. Not by a long shot. I just meant that "nice girls" aren't stigmatized the way "nice guys" are.

 

Nice guys finish last, that's a given. And physically unattractive women struggle just the same. Hence, why I felt the two were "equal" in that sense.

[browneyedgirl36]

I am currently dating a "nice guy" -- in that he's kindhearted, gentle, soft-spoken, mild-mannered, but....he's not the "nice guy" to which this post refers -- the entitled one who thinks he's "nice" but secretly resents women and feels entitled to date/touch/have sex with them simply because they date/touch/have sex with other guys. Big difference. The latter type of guy, who is definitely NOT the majority, does exist, and those are not "nice guys" at all. In fact, one of my students (a male), actually directed me toward a couple of videos on YouTube made by these types of guys (he and I were having a discussion about misogyny in literature and this came up), and I watched a few of the videos -- YIKES!

 

A truly nice guy is nice just because he's a good guy, and he isn't "nice" because he thinks it'll get him somewhere with women -- it's just his character to be a good person.

[Lonewing]

If you want the female version, you're looking at a pushover or a doormat a wet blanket. I think that last word is the right term.

 

In either case you have people who are nice or being nice but because they're not directing their attention in the right manner or with the right understanding, it simply ends with them being used by their crushes.