Thought I was getting a ring for X-mas... never got one.... very hurt and angry

[Newmum]

If you can give up on this relationship because you want marriage and he isn't jumping to it as quick as you then it probably is best to let him go, the other thing is do you want to be the girl who had to practically force a guy down the aisle?

I will add though to make sure you aren't over reacting, maybe he has a plan and he wants to do it his way

 

I agree. I wouldn't be happy in a marriage where it happened because I forced the guy to propose or demanded it to happen. I think he either got comfortable the way you are together, which is fine if you are compatible and happy or he has his own plan. My husband proposed after 3 years in the most unexpected way, it wasn't the most romantic proposal, but I didn't care as HE and our life together was more important than telling my mother and friends the 'story of my proposal'. Sometimes us women can be rather silly with our expectations of a marriage proposal and I think most guys go down on their knees only because WE expect it. But in reality, for many of them a proposal and engagement are inevitably practical things an a marriage is 'just a piece of paper'. Hence their reactions 'fine we can get married if you want' or 'do you really need this paper to seal our love?' or 'we are together, happy, I love you, isn't that enough?'...

If I were you, I wouldn't hint or ask, just enjoy your relationship for the two/three of you and not for the others. Just like my mum always says 'everything will come in the right time.'

[Circe]

Gosh. Why is telling your boyfriend that, having waited 4.5 years, if he's not ready now then you'd rather go your separate ways then keep waiting and hoping - behaviour that should be labelled "forcing" and "demanding"?? I just think that's so detrimental to women.

 

What are they supposed to do? End the relationship giving no reasons at all? How would you like it if your partner just ended your relationship overnight and wouldn't say why or give you a chance to do what had to be done to save it? People think that's the way to behave in a long-term relationship?

 

Or - are they supposed to just sit there and wait.. and wait.. and wait.. ?

 

By the way - I don't think for a second that for most men marriage is "just a piece of paper". I think a lot of men take marriage perhaps even more seriously than women do as they believe it has higher consequences for them. Hence what we see as a perceived reluctance of men, compared to women, to make that commitment without being absolutely sure.

[Longview01]

Shes not forcing him to do anything, she has explained to him what she wants and he even agreed to it when moving back with her and he has shown he doesn't want marriage or commitment.

 

I think you already know what you have to do OP, you can't keep waiting forever

[relevart]

If you're this mad solely because he didn't propose to you, it's actally better that he didn't. Maybe he sees this in you. Maybe there's some valid reason he didn't. Maybe he's not ready. On the other hand, why can't you propose? It's 2014. You're already living together when you have a child from a "previous relationship." I would never suggest bringing a partner into a family like that. Also, consider ths: he's living with you already. Why get married? It's the old cliche. He's getting everything he wants already.

[WithLove]

OP, have you thought about if you really want to get married because you like the idea of marriage, or because you truly want to be married to this guy in particular?

[chickadeedee]

Kalika, I think there are several important things going here. First, you have a right to choose the life you want to live and your goals, and a debate about whether marriage is 'necessary or not' is irrelevant if your goal is marriage. If you want to live in a married family as someone's wife with the legal and social benefits that conveys, then that is a perfectly rational and acceptable thing, so don't listen to people trying to make you feel bad about wanting/expecting marriage after 4.5 years, especially if you've had numerous talks about it and he keeps promising to do it then reneges on the promise and does nothing about it. You've been very clear about what you want, and he has been deceptive/manipulative about his intention to NOT marry you and to continue to string you along. So this isn't a question of whether people should or should not prefer marriage vs. living together, it is a question of him stringing you along when you have clearly stated goals and expectations and he keeps lying to you about his own because he knows your goals are not compatible, so it manipulating you into living the way he wants to live rather than making his agenda clear.

 

He has broken your trust again and again by having discussions about proposals and agreeing to do it again and again, then reneging and not doing it. So this shows you that he (a) doesn't really want to marry and (b) he doesn't have the same goals as you do and © he doesn't take you or your goals seriously and (d) he believes he can just string you along forever and you'll put up with it and not bounce him permanently and (e) he is perfectly willing to lie and manipulate to get his own way if it suits his purposes. Again, it is perfectly acceptable if marriage is not for him, but it is NOT acceptable that he keeps telling you he will marry you then just strings you along without doing it, especially when he knows how important it is to you. So he is in essence DECEIVING you and MANIPULATING you by stringing you along again and again in order to keep things the way he wants them, which is not OK from a trust perspective or from the perspective that he is supposed to love you and consider your feelings and not try to deceive/manipulate you when your needs conflict.

 

It was also pretty nasty for him to turn a discussion of wanting marriage into a criticism of you 'being unhappy' as if you are somehow defective, when perhaps you are unhappy BECAUSE he is not following up on his promises and he doesn't have the same goals as you do. Marriage or not is not a personality issue, but a choice. And I would have been very insulted by the conversation because he is basically telling you that you are good enough to live together as if you were man and wife, BUT he is not willing to give you the 'prize' of marriage unless you jump thru hoops to reach some high bar he has set for you like you're a trained dog who must do a certain trick before he will hand you a treat. And even worse, i think there is no treat ever going to come because he has shown clearly he doesn't want marriage by his actions. 4.5 years is a LONG time to date without a proposal unless you are teenagers or young 20s. So he has cast around to find some excuse to justify why he won't do it, when the reality is he isn't doing it because he is not interested in doing it and prefers a live-in to a marital relationship.

 

Another really important thing is that if you have a lot of issues with him, marrying him won't fix anything at all. And it won't fix the fact that he's not trustworthy and willing to lie and manipulate you to get what he wants when you've been very honest with him about what you want. So that shows a fundamental selfishness in him if he'll lead you on for 4.5 years when you've had many discussions about what you want and he's had PLENTY of opportunities to say he doesn't want to marry (or he doesn't want to marry you and just intends to hang out as is until 'something better' comes along). But he just lied and manipulated instead. So I'd think long and hard about marrying him if the relationship is problematic in many ways. Perhaps you are still together more because you don't want to be alone for a bit than because he is really the right man for you. But if you are wasting time with him, you are turning down better opportunities to actually find a happy marriage with someone else.

 

What i think your friends and mother are saying in a backhanded way is that he SHOULD be proposing to you at this point and that is it is reasonable expectation that he should be proposing after 4.5 years together. And since he hasn't, you've waited more than long enough for him to make good on his promises to propose.

 

My suggestion is this: you go out today (or next week) and rent a storage unit large enough to store his stuff in and pay for a month's rent and get the key to the unit. Then sit him down and tell him very nicely that you either intend to enter the new year as an engaged woman and marry by June 2015, or else you will enter 2015 as a single woman, his choice. But you will not enter 2015 doing the same old dance. And if he won't agree to get engaged and set a date by New Year's Eve, then you say, OK, then Happy New Year, hand him the storage locker key, a phone number to the U-haul place, and tell him he has until the end of the weekend to get his stuff out or you will have it moved into that storage unit (or onto the curb, your choice). He can live in a motel for a month if necessary until he finds his own place, but that is his problem, not yours.

 

But i would first think long and hard about whether marrying him is a wise choice if there are other issues in the relationship beyond just the lack of a proposal. Perhaps it is time to bite the bullet and just rid yourself of him if there are significant issues unresolved after 4.5 years. It doesn't pay to continue to throw good money after bad, or to continue to invest in a relationship that is not giving you the vast majority of what you want and need. Time to find someone more compatible! If that's the case, just sit him down, hand him the key to the storage unit, get his house key from him on the spot, tell him to pack a bag and go to a motel, and let you know what time he will be returning to pick up his stuff and move it to the storage unit so you can be home to let him in (or just have it moved there yourself).

 

If you know you have a weakness where he worms his way back in again, don't give him the opportunity. Hire some movers for a particular day, and have them move his stuff to that unit. Get him out, and start the New Year with a goal to start dating new men who do want serious relationships and have marriage as a goal. And i suggest you don't let anyone move in with you until you are engaged with a wedding date. there are a lot of men looking for 'serial monogamy' with a series of live-in relationships who aren't interested in marriage, and will pretend they are to get that live in situation going and will string it along until the woman gets fed up, then they look for the next live-in. So don't get into this situation again.

[Circe]

^^^ I sooo agree. Especially the first paragraph. I mean what is going on these days. A woman says she wants to get married and it's obvious by the post that marriage is important to her - and before you know it there's a stream of posts along the lines of "is marriage really that important?" - immediately invalidating her goals. It's amazing. Those who want marriage can probably list anywhere from 10-20 reasons why it's important to them, if not more. I'm sure the reason many prefer not to do that is out of respect for those who Don't want marriage - so as to not devalue their choice. Or out of fear that their reasons for marriage will also be invalidated. Let's just support what goals and choices people/women make for themselves. And let's not assume that they must be idiots who haven't fully thought through the desire to marry. We don't assume that about other goals.

[Batya33]

You sound like you're adopting a dog - a loyal companion - rather than considering marriage. Humble opinion -be (reasonably) excited and sure about the man you want to marry. "For better or for worse....because I could do a lot worse?"

 

Give him time to find a new place -and you find a new place during that time since you are the one ending it.

[journeynow]

don't waste your breath telling him you expected a ring -simply tell him that you two are not on the same page about future goals, that you're done discussing it and that it's time to separate -head high, avoid the emotional outbursts

 

I don't really understand why the proposal can't be the product of a joint conversation. Not an angry one but just a nice, normal, polite conversation where you say .. I like the traditional idea of you surprising me with a proposal but that hasn't happened yet and after 4.5 yrs its too disappointing to keep waiting - so how about it, shall we get engaged and go pick out a ring?

 

I support a combination of these suggestions, having a frank but brief discussion regarding the page you are on. Either you are on the same page and let's do it, or you are not on the same page and time to end this chapter.

 

I am not a fan of the proposal being a big show produced by the guy. A marriage is a partnership and worth coming to together as an equal decision, and the process of getting there is a factor of the entire relationship.

[relevart]

I wonder if it is more about "getting a ring" than anything. The title of this thread, in retropect, seems odd, especially considering everything the OP says about her SO. Do you even love this guy? Or did you just want a nice flashy ring on your finger to show off? I suspect there is some reason tis guy is not asking you to be his wife. He may not want you to be his wife.

[Iggles]

You sound like you're adopting a dog - a loyal companion - rather than considering marriage. Humble opinion -be (reasonably) excited and sure about the man you want to marry. "For better or for worse....because I could do a lot worse?"

 

His "nice guy" shtick is what's gotten him this far. He is stringing the OP along at this point, but because he has bonded with her child AND the "sunk-cost" fallacy of time spent together the OP is reluctant to let him go. Those same reasons may be why he hasn't left the relationship.

 

In reality, the resentment has been simmering for so long. He isn't meeting her needs and it is awful how he turns her desires to get married into an opportunity to criticize her as unlovable.

 

The relationship has run its course. Time to tell him to go. Make 2015 a year of new possibilities and finding someone who will love you the way you deserve.

[Batya33]

I support a combination of these suggestions, having a frank but brief discussion regarding the page you are on. Either you are on the same page and let's do it, or you are not on the same page and time to end this chapter.

 

I am not a fan of the proposal being a big show produced by the guy. A marriage is a partnership and worth coming to together as an equal decision, and the process of getting there is a factor of the entire relationship.

 

Same here - people can simply decide to get married. I'm a fan of there being a ring of some kind -a symbol of the commitment (and an engagement gift for the guy) but when you're already living together especially you just decide what is next.

[Ms Darcy]

I remember posting to you two years ago that you would be here two years later, not engaged, and frustrated.

 

So, here you are.

 

And I'm telling you most likely, you will be back next year in the same situation.

 

This seems to me more than you just want to get married. Because you don't sound like you are in love with this guy ... you SOUND like you are settling (e.g. your comments about how he's not that great but he's loyal and there for you guys).

 

I think even if you did get married, you'd be divorced pretty soon. Marriage is challenging enough when you are deeply in love and have great respect for each other.

[Snny]

His "nice guy" shtick is what's gotten him this far. He is stringing the OP along at this point, but because he has bonded with her child AND the "sunk-cost" fallacy of time spent together the OP is reluctant to let him go. Those same reasons may be why he hasn't left the relationship.

 

In reality, the resentment has been simmering for so long. He isn't meeting her needs and it is awful how he turns her desires to get married into an opportunity to criticize her as unlovable.

 

The relationship has run its course. Time to tell him to go. Make 2015 a year of new possibilities and finding someone who will love you the way you deserve.

 

Thank you! I'm glad I was not the only person who interpreted his actions as him being passively manipulative.

 

Don't let a guy move in with you unless you both had serious discussions on marriage with a date and/or after he proposes. This guy is using you for a place to crash. You laid your bed out for him to sleep and all he has to do is be the "nice guy." He's a snake who belongs outside.

[bulletproof]

I agree with those saying that you don't really seem like you actually want to marry this guy.

I think that perhaps you are a bit biased by your desire to make a family for your son. You mentioned that your boyfriend is good with him.

But you have to respect the person you're with, and by saying he's not that bright or great, it doesn't sound like you do respect him.

That's okay, but to then turn around and be annoyed that you're not getting a ring from a guy you're not really that hyped about seems wrong.

 

Move on. Let him go, let yourself be free to find someone who you really admire and are excited about. And actually want to marry. Maybe on some level the guy you're with senses your qualms about him.

[sam78]

4.5 years of waiting??? i think you've already said enough. He knows what you want but i dont think he can do it...he's got that comitment issue. If getting married is what you want- then go start over and hope that someday your Mr. Right will come along. Sometimes, Men sadly are so oblivious and sooo dumd and selfish.... you're only 32 --you'll find someone. I've been in your shoes....but different circumstances but same idea. leave girl...dont waste anymore of your to go after your dreams.

[Kalika]

Thanks so much for the responses everyone. I appreciate your insights.

 

I stayed away from here for a few days to gather up my thoughts. Luckily for me, my boyfriend is also out of state right now so I am getting some much needed space. Before he left, we discussed that he would move out of the house at the end of January.

 

Re-reading my own post, I do think in many ways that I contributed to this. I know it sounds like I don't really love him, but I honestly really do. This is why it's been so hard for me to walk away from him, and why I wanted so much to marry him in the first place. I always felt like he was the one I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I was so ridiculously crazy about him for the first few years.. the only time it started to change was when I started to question our future; as soon as I did, things started going downhill because I was looking for signs everywhere, hoping he would show me in some grand gesture (proposal) how much he loves me. When he didn't, it hurt so much that I think I honestly started talking myself out of being in love with him, and my high expectations sank. He didn't encourage me to envision a future with him. I don't show him respect or much affection any more and I know that's taken a toll on his feelings for me. I guess I shouldn't be surprised he doesn't want to marry me. There's too much anger and resentment between us.

 

I know I have definitely made mistakes in the relationship but I'm not sure we can get over them at this point. So while he's out of town, I'm going to write him a really heartfelt e-mail, apologize for my behavior, and let him know that although I love and miss him, I think there's too much damage that has been done.

 

I hope I don't go back to him like I always do. I know I would be selling myself short if I did.

[Ms Darcy]

The key here is really follow-through. Thus far, he knows you won't follow-through -- he has no evidence to the contrary.