Boundaries with opposite sex friends while in relationship

[mel anie]

I have an ongoing problem with my partner over boundaries with opposite sex friends.

 

We have been together nearly 10 years, living together for 8. Basically exist like a married couple although we are not married and never will be (my partner does not believe in marriage and doesn't want to marry anyone, ever. I can deal with this.) I have struggled with jealousy in the past and I am currently seeing a counsellor to help me manage these feelings constructively as we have created a nice life for ourselves with lots of friends and we want to stay together. We share a lot of similar interests and go on a lot of holidays together, so many aspects of our relationship are great. But we have different views on boundaries we should set with opposite sex friends, and it has continued to bother me for many years despite me spending thousands of dollars and many hours on counselling to help be become less jealous.

 

In a nutshell, apart from our mutual friends of both genders, he only has one close male friend and a couple of very old female friends, who I am totally comfortable with him spending one on one time with as I have also got to know them well and they are all married and/or with kids and I like and trust them. I have problems with his female friends that he had made since we have been together. He says that he finds it easier to make friends with females rather than males and he thinks it is fine to spend one on one time with them doing things like going to the movies at night time, having dinner together or going out drinking together. I am rarely invited along. In the past I have shown jealousy when he has developed these one-on-one friendships and it has caused massive fights and pain for me. Any of my complaints about these things just ends up with him accusing me of being jealous and that if I trusted him it wouldn't be a problem. Because he never backs down, to keep the relationship going I have agreed that it is my problem and that I will try to stop being jealous by seeking counselling and trying to trust him more. So that is what I have done, but I still feel that I need to have certain boundaries that I know he does not agree with.

 

Here are some boundaries that I want to talk to my partner about and that I am willing to set for myself too.

 

- No one-on-one time at night time with opposite sex friend. Group activities at night are fine though within reason.

(This includes seeing a movie alone, dinner alone or out drinking for extended periods of time.)

- No solo lifts home or sharing a taxi home with single female. (Happened last week)

- No intimate conversations, especially about relationship or sex problems.

- If going out clubbing or late night drinks with mixed sex group, I want to be invited. (This is a very rare occurrence.)

 

Things I am ok with:

- Going out one-on-one with opposite sex friend every now and then for a quick drink/coffee/bite to eat, say under 2 hours duration.

- Group activities where I am not there. If it is a group activity that is going to involve late night partying or bar hopping, I should be invited.

- I would like to meet the opposite sex friend and be included sometimes, not necessarily all the time.

 

How can I get it accross to him that I need these boundaries to feel secure and respected, and that it will actually help me to become less jealous if we can put these things in place? I know it seems late in the relationship to be talking about boundaries, but as I said before when I have tried to voice my needs about boundaries it has come accross as jealousy and we have not been able to clearly set up some agreed boundaries. And What do I do if he won't agree to these things? Past experience makes me think he won't be happy with some of these boundaries, but I'm hoping with my clarity and not coming form a jealous place might make a difference this time.

 

I don't feel that I am being unreasonable. DO you?

[redswim30]

- No one-on-one time at night time with opposite sex friend. Group activities at night are fine though within reason.

(This includes seeing a movie alone, dinner alone or out drinking for extended periods of time.)

- No solo lifts home or sharing a taxi home with single female. (Happened last week)

- No intimate conversations, especially about relationship or sex problems.

- If going out clubbing or late night drinks with mixed sex group, I want to be invited. (This is a very rare occurrence.)

 

Things I am ok with:

- Going out one-on-one with opposite sex friend every now and then for a quick drink/coffee/bite to eat, say under 2 hours duration.

- Group activities where I am not there. If it is a group activity that is going to involve late night partying or bar hopping, I should be invited.

- I would like to meet the opposite sex friend and be included sometimes, not necessarily all the time.

 

How can I get it accross to him that I need these boundaries to feel secure and respected, and that it will actually help me to become less jealous if we can put these things in place? I know it seems late in the relationship to be talking about boundaries, but as I said before when I have tried to voice my needs about boundaries it has come accross as jealousy and we have not been able to clearly set up some agreed boundaries. And What do I do if he won't agree to these things? Past experience makes me think he won't be happy with some of these boundaries, but I'm hoping with my clarity and not coming form a jealous place might make a difference this time.

QUOTE]

 

To be honest with you that is a LOT of limitations to place on someone's friendships. You either trust him or you don't. My opinion is that if you place this many constraints on him, he is just going to start lying to you about where he was and with who.

You aren't his mom or his babysitter, and you cannot keep tabs on him 24/7.

 

You have been together ten years and you still don't trust him? This doesn't just seem like just a jealously issue. It seems like you are insecure in the relationship. Why? Is it because he doesn't want to get married and you do?

 

You need to be honest with yourself and reexamine your feelings. Trust is an important issue on which you really cannot be incompatible. Has he given you any real reason not to trust him?

Push too hard and you will push him away, not closer to you.

You also need to understand that nothing HE can do or not do is going to help YOUR jealousy, insecurity, trust issues. If this is something within you and it becomes an obsession, you could read a lot into anything if you choose to.

 

Now, I'm not saying I disagree with having certain boundaries, but to be honest, yours seem really extreme. I would think about what is really important to you before presenting him with your current list.

 

If what you want from him is non-negotiable to you, then your only choice is to end the relationship. You cannot force someone to live the way you want them to if they aren't comfortable with it. If he has already not agreed with you on these issues, he is not likely to.

 

If you choose to stay together, I think you will have to compromise more and figure out what you can work on to help YOURSELF.

 

If you break up, you need to think about what you need to learn for future relationships.

 

But I can tell you right off the bat,

 

If you are looking for a man who gives you a play by play on his activities(especially if you aren't married), consults you about every conversation he has with a member of the opposite sex or feels like he needs your permission to do anything without you, you are going to have an EXTREMELY difficult time. IMVHO, I don't think most men (or women for that matter) would put up with that.

[Batya33]

My boundaries were simpler - the opposite sex friend must be supportive of our relationship and I must be given the opportunity to meet the person. Otherwise it's common sense as far as what kinds of activities are ok and not ok. And you have to assume your partner has common sense.

 

Your boundaries sound far too controlling. Don't you want your SO to have close friendships?

[redswim30]

My boundaries were simpler - the opposite sex friend must be supportive of our relationship and I must be given the opportunity to meet the person. QUOTE]

 

^^^ Agreed. That's my one and only. If they don't support our relationship- out. I don't have to meet up with them per se, but they definitely shouldn't be "hidden". I.e. I could come home if they were hanging out together, they know who I am, I know who they are- No secrets.

[Fudgie]

My boundaries were simpler - the opposite sex friend must be supportive of our relationship and I must be given the opportunity to meet the person. Otherwise it's common sense as far as what kinds of activities are ok and not ok. And you have to assume your partner has common sense.

 

Your boundaries sound far too controlling. Don't you want your SO to have close friendships?

 

This is what I think too. Generally, I am fine with my partner (or me) seeing an opposite sex friend one-on-one as long as it's not a "date-like" setting. I'm talking candle-lit dinners and whatnot. Should be common sense, really.

I don't think riding in a taxi or a car with an opposite sex friend is bad at all. If I were sober and a friend of mine needed a lift home because he drank alcohol, I would give him a lift. That's common sense.

 

A good thing to ask yourself when it comes to opposite sex friends is "Am I putting too much energy into this friendship to the point that it takes away from my current relationship?" If the answer is 'yes', then something needs to be done to change.

 

Your boundaries seem very restrictive and controlling. Only one-on-ones are okay if they involve lunch/coffee and last no more than 2 hours in duration? Really? What is he going to do, time himself with his phone?

 

Why do you feel this way? Does he act in ways that make you uncomfortable? How do YOU feel about marriage? Do you feel somehow insecure in this relationship?

[reinventmyself]

My stand on this is that if they are your friends then they are my friends too.

 

In other words there needs to be a comfort level that you would/should feel comfortable included as well.

I had this issue with my exH. When he met me I had a lot of male friends, but my male friends ultimately became his friends as well and we socialized together. Even at one point my male best friend would hang out with my H when I was at work.

 

This issue came up when he tried to argue that he had female friends much like my male friends. Yet I had no access to them, didn't know them and he was trying to be shady about them.

 

`If you can't bring them around me like I do mine, then it's a no go'

He couldn't argue that. Well, at least he didn't try

[abitbroken]

Actually, I think you are not crazy.

 

I understand the few female friends he has had for years, they are all married, etc. and maybe the male friends he made at the same time have fallen away. At some point though, friends that you bring into the relationship you should eventually be friends with as a couple. You don't have to be best friends with them, but inviting the friend and her husband out with the two of you occasionally where you and the friend are cordial is a mature evolution alongside with maybe she and he having coffee. Or at least you do see them socially at some point.

 

What I have a harder time with is "female friends made since you have been together." Its one thing to have old friends that are women, but its another to keep seeking out new ones unless they are friends with you as a couple. I can see him being friends with his colleagues that have a mentoring relationship/friendship but if he is meeting these new female friends out and about or on Facebook and he is insisting on going out at night with them - Really? He should be taking you on dates or be proud to be with you and you, he and the female friend meet up somewhere sometimes or inviting them to your home. If that cannot ever be done, then that is a problem, It just leads me to believe if he is going out with them, that he is confiding in them about his relationship with you perhaps.

 

Also, when living together, some couples view it as a step for marriage and some consider themselves single. They do single things because they are not married. And the other person shouldn't have an issue, in their eyes.

 

I think you should approach things differently and say "oh, I haven't met Maggie, why don't the three of us go for drinks so i can meet her. I would love to meet her." Or "let's have Maggie and Suzy over for dinner" if he refuses, then you know your intuition is good.

 

People say "men and women can be platonic friends", yet so many threads talk about the opposite where friend falls for platonic friend or guy uses female friends to confide in when he should be confiding in his girlfriend. Honestly, unless his hobby is knitting, or something extremely female dominated and he makes friends at the yarn shop, I think its BS that he is making so many new female friends, hardly any guys and you are not included

[abitbroken]

- No one-on-one time at night time with opposite sex friend. Group activities at night are fine though within reason.

(This includes seeing a movie alone, dinner alone or out drinking for extended periods of time.)

 

Dinner and a movie is a date to me. Why would a guy go to a movie with a recent female friend, anyway, one on one?

 

- No solo lifts home or sharing a taxi home with single female. (Happened last week)

 

Why is a taxi bad if the driver is dropping them off at different places? I have shared taxi cabs with people who worked in my building that I didn't really know well. Yes, if its a woman he doesn't know and just met that night, I AGREE. I also think its okay to drive someone who is drunk home regardless of gender as long as they don't go in, but that should be something you shouldn't even have to bring up. I think that you should stick to the main bigger points, like talking about your sex life, late night drinks and never geting to meet the friends.

 

- No intimate conversations, especially about relationship or sex problems.

 

Yes! Tell him that he is not allowed to talk about your sex life with anyone without your consent unless its to a counselor or doctor. he is not a gentleman if he is doing this and it breaks the intimacy of your relationship.

 

- If going out clubbing or late night drinks with mixed sex group, I want to be invited. (This is a very rare occurrence.)

 

 

Things I am ok with:

- Going out one-on-one with opposite sex friend every now and then for a quick drink/coffee/bite to eat, say under 2 hours duration.

 

I don't think you should list a time frame. Coffee is fine. But going out to a restaurant when you are home cooking like the two of you talked about and agreed to that day is rude. I can see if people run into eachother and spontaneously decide to get a bite - but a datey thing - no.

 

- Group activities where I am not there. If it is a group activity that is going to involve late night partying or bar hopping, I should be invited.

 

Yeah, if everyone else's girlfriends/boyfriends are invited except for you, why wouldn't he invite you?

 

- I would like to meet the opposite sex friend and be included sometimes, not necessarily all the time.

 

BINGO!!! This is it right here. If you can never meet the friends I would be suspicious!

[dobbin]

If you're uncomfortable with his new female friends ask to meet them in person. From this meeting you will be able to sense the type of relationship they have and make a judgement call.

[LonelyGirl10]

I think you're feeling insecure because he's acting in a way that makes you insecure, and I don't think you completely trust him. I think your feelings are valid though, and I don't think you need counseling in order to overcome your jealousy.

 

This is an issue about boundaries. What it really boils down to is that you have different boundaries than he does. It doesn't make you right and him wrong, or him right and you wrong. It just makes you different. The goal in relationships is to find someone who has the same boundaries that you have, regardless of what those boundaries are. Since you're with him already though and want to stay with him, you have to figure out how to solve the boundary issue.

 

I have also gone to counseling to help me deal with jealousy, and to deal with a situation where I ended up being right and the guy cheated on me. The main thing that I learned in counseling is how to set boundaries.

 

You can't control someone else. You can't enforce boundaries on him. He will see it as you being controlling, manipulative, and jealous. What you can do is control your own life. You can control what you are willing to have in your life.

 

What my counselor taught me to do is to make a list of boundaries that I feel comfortable with. If someone is violating one of my boundaries, then I communicate that with the person in an open and honest way. If we can't compromise on it, then I "enforce" my boundary by walking away. I don't nag the person or try to make him change. I just enforce my boundary, and leave the guy so that I'm in control of my own life.

 

For example... I really don't like strip clubs. I know some women are fine with them, but I'm not. I dated a guy for years where we always fought about him going to a strip club, and he made me feel jealous. I tried to control my feelings and deal with it. My counselor told me that I should have said something like "When you go to a strip club, it makes me feel _______. I love you, but I cannot date someone that makes me feel that way." Then see if he respects your boundaries or not. If not, then you walk away. It's different than stating an ultimatum (do this or else). It's setting boundaries for how you live your own life. Communicate your boundary and how it makes you feel, and then take action if he doesn't respect your boundary. It's about controlling your own life, rather than controlling his life.

 

As for the friend thing, I have mixed feelings about it. I have male friends who I would give a ride to, and there's nothing inappropriate there. But, I've also been in a relationship where a guy constantly said that he was "just friends" with a female coworker, and he cheated on me. It started as lunches, then going out at night and giving her rides home. Then he cheated, and lied for months. So, it really depends on the particular situation.

 

When I'm judging female friends of a SO, I want to meet them. If he won't let me meet them, that's a red flag. If I meet the girl and she's hostile to me, that's a red flag. If I meet her and she's friendly, then I'm fine with her.

[Unreasonable]

Actually, I think most of your expectations are completely reasonable (well, okay, maybe not the taxi one).

 

1) The first one you list is essentially a date.

2) I don't see why being in the same car (esp a taxi) is such a big deal.

3) This is tantamount to an emotional affair, or can very easily lead to one. He may not understand the concept of this however.

4) Eh, I don't think you should HAVE to be invited to things like this, I view this as a nicety. Besides, you said it yourself it is rare.

 

I think it is fairly reasonable that anything that would be construed as a date should not happen. I admit I DID do things like this with girl friends (mostly in college) when I first got married, but I was pretty naive at the time. One of them ended up being obviously into me. Also, you should never ever ever talk intimately, or about your relationship to an opposite sex friend. Seems like common sense but it really isn't always. Really, I see no compelling reason why one should HAVE to spend alone time with an opposite sex friend. There would need to be a pressing need. "To catch up" or "because I want to" is not a good enough reason. You cab "catch up" with other people around.

[tattoobunnie]

My husband and I are best friends. It wasn't the ring that did it. It's the fact we love spending time together, and want to experience things together.

 

Honestly, I think he's flat out not right for you. A working relationship is not about you sacrificing how you feel all the time, and getting left out all the time (which you are). And it's not the thought of cheating. It's that he just flat out leaves you out of the equation, like ALL the TIME.

 

I think you are being cheated - out of a satisfying relationship. Is there anything redeeming about him?