How do you know if you're being emotionally abused in a relationship?

[Seraphim]

Also too shame is a very poor motivator. N due to his upbringing probably has dysfunctional ways of coping and dysfunctional ways of motivating. Seriously if he tries that way of motivating again you should just leave. It is just causing you severe problems. Are you with him because you feel nobody else in the whole world will understand you or knows enough about you? Because if that's the big hinge that holds you together that is not a reason to be with someone. There are many people who will understand how you feel. There are many people who would be happy to be with you. There are many people who could positively help you heal.

[Seraphim]

Another thing and it is very hard road to hoe to have a relationship with two people who have dysfunctional ways of coping. I can tell you that 100%. As you know I had very little to no childhood. My childhood was filled with a lot of sexual, emotional and mental abuse and neglect. My husband was babied to death. He was never allowed to become an adult. He was never allowed to express his own feelings or his own opinions whatsoever. As a result we both suffered from pretty severe anxiety and had a lot of dysfunctional coping skills. I have PTSD and he has GAD and OCD .It made our relationship together exceedingly difficult. Only now in our 40s have we managed to pull ourselves together enough where our relationship is really pretty good. It has been sheer force of will that has kept us together. And of course a smattering of true love. But I can tell you a relationship with two people as dysfunctional as we were is incredibly soul crushing. So you have to decide if you want to embark on that. You have to decide if you feel that N will eventually turn out to be a good partner for you.

[petite]

There's no question in my mind that the relationship with your father was odd (I don't mean that to sound offensive), however N was your friend and from what I gathered through your posts he knew a lot about you, your relationship with B and your father. This isn't news to him, he willingly got into a relationship with you knowing your history. Now he is turning it all on you and expecting you to choose because he wants you to be in the same mind frame as he is, he wants you to solely rely on him and live this debbie downer life because doesn't want anyone around, which in itself isn't healthy. He is trying to manipulate you. He needs to let you make your own decisions and whether you have a relationship with your father is frankly none of his business. He has absolutely no right to meddle between you and your parents. Even if he were your husband, whatever issues you might have with your parents are yours to deal with. He can support you, he can be a shoulder to cry on and he can give you advice, but he should not be asking you to choose between him and your family.

 

Frankly, I think the fact that he even called you that word is absolutely revolting for someone that says they love you. You need to stand up for yourself and do what you want and what is best for you, not your father and certainly not N.

 

You want to grow, you wand to mature and N just wants to stay in one place with no one but you around. It's nice to be with your partner and spend time with them, but everyone needs space and some time alone. He doesn't need to constantly know when you're getting home from your parents house, and you shouldn't have to always feel like you have to justify yourself to him or anyone else. Relationships are hard, they are a lot of work, but there is a limit to how hard one should work in the relationship. If you're constantly needing to reassure him or ask if he is okay, that's just too exhausting. He should just accept that you're visiting your parents and let you be.

[tiredofvampires]

Fudgie, I noticed that in one of your posts, you said that your dad has not sexually abused you (physically). If I read that correctly.

 

Are you sure that's true?

 

Are there any other ways your dad has violated you sexually or behaved inappropriately in a sexual manner that are less overt? Nothing of a sexual nature taken off the table.

 

And if so, does he still do any of these things, or do you feel such a dynamic exists currently?

 

If that feels too hard to answer here or you don't want to, I understand. But I feel like some of this thread in places is glossing over some things...just my impression.

[Fudgie]

I've been smacked on the butt more times than I can count. That's it. Honestly.

[Seraphim]

You mean as a punishment ?

[Fudgie]

No. I was punished by spanking until I was 4-5. It stopped because I started asking for it when I was 5.

 

I've been lightly smacked on the butt to be told to "hurry up" or "come on". That's happened often. Don't remember the last time. Probably when I was 20ish.

 

That's it, really. I don't recall feeling bad when it happened. Just annoyed.

[Seraphim]

Ok, that is a bit odd. NO ONE should be touching your backside to get you to move at that point. Unless it is your partner giving you a playful pat.

[Moontiger]

Ok, that is a bit odd. NO ONE should be touching your backside to get you to move at that point. Unless it is your partner giving you a playful pat.

 

I agree. Its very odd for a father to smack his adult daughter on the butt for any reason.

 

How are you feeling today Fudgie?

[penelope13]

I also seem to remember from one of your posts that you said that when you are at the dinner table (even when others are around, including N) that you and your father are exchanging looks that are usually reserved for romantic partners. So I agree with tov that there may be some things that you are glossing over.

 

However it's normal for you to not know/feel that some of these things are crossing boundaries, because you were never shown what proper boundaries are.

[Seraphim]

Do you remember all of your childhood Fudgie? Are there any gaps there?

[Fudgie]

I remember that post, penelope. I remember doing that. My dad still sort of does that. It does bother N if my dad and I look at each other for a long period of time because, especially in the past but still true today, I'll see my dad look at me and then I look back and don't really look away because he keeps looking at me even when he talks to others so I just keep looking.

 

I don't mean to gloss things over I really don't. There is just a lot of crap that has happened, little things, some I don't think to mention and others I just forget. I will try to remember some now, just a couple.

 

-When I was 12/13, I asked my dad if he felt I was attractive. I don't remember my intention. He first dodged the question but I persisted. He gave me a lukewarm answer when pressed and I got very upset and cried about it later.

 

-I slept in my dad's bed several times. Last time being when I was 19 or so. Only when my mom isn't there. I never cuddled or anything. Just laid next to him.

 

-^ I did so wearing very little.

 

-I wrote some erotica when I was 12 and asked my dad to read it.

 

-I had a "fantasy" from ages 5-15/16 about having a much older brother. This included sexual stuff. When I was 5, I told my parents I wanted an older brother and was sad that it wasn't possible.

 

-I have one blood cousin who I barely see. He's a bit older by a few years, paternal cousin. I've kissed him twice and not in a family way, gone out on a "date" with him, flirted with him, etc. My dad knows about this because he saw me kiss him the first time. I was 16 when that happened. I don't remember how old my cousin was.

 

-I have tons of old drawing from when I was 5/6 and on cartoonist drawing of dogs, labeling them as older brother and younger sister, and then implying naughty/romantic activities.

 

I have feelings I can't talk about. I have had dreams I can't talk about either.

 

Today was bad enough but I feel like utter s___t writing what I just did. I'm so f___d up. I feel like I am just so sick mentally and it's eating me up. I sort of shook as I wrote all that.

 

I have not been to therapy in a week and a half due to two things 1) my boss trained me for a second job (administration job) that I am doing in addition to my regular job, and that ate up all my time and 2) I am just so anxious and feel so bad right now the only thing I can manage to coming on here to you guys.

 

On top of this, N has been sick with chronic symptoms and needs blood work done because the doctor thinks he has a bacterial infection of some sort because he ruled out medication issues.

 

I am just trying to handle my own life right now and I know I have to return to therapy but everything feels so bad.

 

I've never wanted to forget something as much as I want to forget all of this right now.

[Fudgie]

Do you remember all of your childhood Fudgie? Are there any gaps there?

 

100%. I have a sharp memory. My memory starts at around 2.5/3 years old and it never stops. I remember all of my teachers. I remember my classes. I remember my home life. I remember the day to day as well as the traumatic events.

 

I have no gaps.

 

If something happened, I'd remember it. It's just a dynamic.

[Seraphim]

Honey, this is something you HAVE to mention in therapy. You HAVE to. Your therapist won't judge you. Really. If you want to get better this is something you HAVE to bring up.

[Seraphim]

100%. I have a sharp memory. My memory starts at around 2.5/3 years old and it never stops. I remember all of my teachers. I remember my classes. I remember my home life. I remember the day to day as well as the traumatic events.

 

I have no gaps.

 

If something happened, I'd remember it. It's just a dynamic.

 

Ok that is good that you have no gaps. But Fudgie if you truly want to get better and be at peace you HAVE to bring this up to your counselor. You can not handle this alone. You HAVE to be truthful with them. You want to get better yes? They can not help you if you are not truthful.

[Fudgie]

I already wrote down what I've gold you guys here... And shared with her. Talking hurts too much. But she just agrees that it's inappropriate and... that's it. No other commentary. No other thoughts.

 

I'm supposed to be switching over to a family therapist as I see her and then if I find someone else good I'll just stick with them. I need someone new. My next session is talking about this stuff to try and find the best person for me.

 

I just don't feel up to it right now and feel nauseous just thinking about it.

[Fudgie]

I really have been truthful, Vic. I just feel like I'm in a rut both with my current therapist and myself. In that I can't even make the right steps to get someone better right now.

[Seraphim]

If she has no other commentary then it is something she can not handle and you need someone else. I would make an impression on them how deeply this distresses you. I am so sorry love. I wish there was a quick fix. I DO feel you can find peace and improve from where you are. I really really do.

[penelope13]

I have feelings I can't talk about. I have had dreams I can't talk about either.

 

Today was bad enough but I feel like utter s___t writing what I just did. I'm so f___d up. I feel like I am just so sick mentally and it's eating me up. I sort of shook as I wrote all that.

 

I know these thoughts and feelings scare you, but those are the ones you need to explore in a safe way (such as in therapy) and try to learn how to put them in proper perspective.

 

You shouldn't feel guilty or ashamed of any of those thoughts and feelings, most of them are probably due to your family dynamics.

 

I completely agree with Vic, you can and will get better, even if it's a painful way to get there.

[abitbroken]

I am not saying your dad every touched you in an inappropriate way and i don't really think he did anything sexual to you (yeah, the butt patting thing is bad boundaries but i am talking about other contact). But for some reason you have sought his approval in a romantic way for other reasons. It could be that normal thing young 4 year old girls do when they say "i am going to marry daddy when i grow up" (little boys do that with mom") but some how it skewed itself based on your father treating you like his partner. There are young women who seek attention with males in their family who are older by wearing very little, etc, but most of the time if this happens, the men tell her to go dress appropriately or have mom talk to her and make it clear that it is not appropriate. For whatever reason, you were screaming for his attention - and the negative on his part is that he was not guiding your behavior.

 

It is curious as to why you would fix yourself on an older cousin (kissing, dating) and not another unrelated older boy. to me that's straight up incest (i know some people would say in some states, that's legal, but for the most part it would be. Where was your dad in that? I know "he knew" but knowing your daughter is doing that versus knowing and having mom or him take her aside about it - that is i guess what puzzles me.

 

Hang in there - you will get through this. It is going to take awhile but the reward is on the other side.

[abitbroken]

If she has no other commentary then it is something she can not handle and you need someone else. I would make an impression on them how deeply this distresses you. I am so sorry love. I wish there was a quick fix. I DO feel you can find peace and improve from where you are. I really really do.

 

I have seen websites that list the special interest areas of therapists and there are many who would work with emotional incest, incest, and stuff like that.

[Fudgie]

I don't know why I fixated on the cousin. I really don't. I haven't seen him in about 5 years. I saw him a lot more when I was younger. Even as we got older, he never had a girlfriend, still lived with his parents, etc. Not very attractive in that way. He was also overweight. He did have his own car though and the last time I saw him (that was the "date"), he drove me around. When I was much younger, and so was he, we would go into his parents' basement where he would play video games and I would just sort of drape myself on him. He didn't really seem to mind. He was my first crush too. I used to say that when I was 5-7 years old, that I liked him. People just laughed it off and smiled. No one told me it was wrong or perhaps not a bright idea.

 

We always seemed innocently "into" each other. Like, even when I was younger, he was always very, very eager to see me and always looked at me. We'd always sit next to each other and were inseparable the whole time. When we got older, we just started to talk more, I guess.

 

When we went on our "date", I was almost 18 and single. I had boyfriends in the past, so nothing new. We had spent the last day or more together, as I was in the area with my dad, who had business elsewhere. We went to the beach and went for a swim in the ocean. He took me out to a place, don't remember where now. I always sat next to him, like I always have, and just flirted and laughed and he did the same. I remember asking him if this was a date and he said yes. I also remember chiding him for eating a salad saying "I thought you didn't eat green things" and he told me that he wanted to watch his weight because he wanted to look better...for me.

 

That night, before he dropped me off, I went in to kiss his cheek. He turned, like he did the last time, and we ended up kissing each other on the mouth. I vaguely remember it being wet and pulling him really close. I don't remember kisses very well.

 

I think it's incest too.

 

My dad saw us together when I was in my late teens and later said to me "Oh, you and ____ seem to be really close...I saw you kiss him" and I said "Yeah"....and that was it.

 

 

 

Most women in my position would have gone for someone older, I think. But I had contact with older guys and wasn't impressed. I did have a very scarring experience with someone who was in his 30s from the UK when I was 14, and I had vowed to myself that I was NEVER, EVER going to be with an older man until I was 18+. So I kept to that.

 

My issue in the past is that when I wanted to be with older men, I didn't want "a little older". I didn't want some college schmuck who was a senior and could drink and had a car. I wanted MUCH older. 30s+. As I reached 19, I felt that 40+ was better and ended up leaving a man who was 15 years my senior because I legitimately felt he was too "young" on the inside for me.

 

I've been having a bad week. I had a near panic attack the other day. N and I have been arguing often because he is sick and is in a horrid mood. I have been miserable.

[penelope13]

what was the panic attack about or triggered by?

[Fudgie]

I was driving and was thinking about everything, with my dad and N and all, and it just sort of happened. I had to pull off to the side of the road to get myself together.

[tiredofvampires]

Basically, what set off this whole crisis, and this thread, was that N gave you an ultimatum. But an open-ended ultimatum of sorts, in that he's given you no perameters (like, when he will leave IF his demands are not met). Is that correct?

 

Sorry if I missed this somewhere on the thread, but did some event in particular set him off to issue the ultimatum?

 

Like, anything along these lines...

I think he fears that I'll revert back to how I was and leave him for an older man.

 

Or anything else.

 

I'm just wondering, with this relationship being a bit seasoned, why now has he stepped this demand up.