How do you know if you're being emotionally abused in a relationship?

[abitbroken]

Oh - you LEFT N in the dream and stayed with Dad?

[Fudgie]

Yeah.

 

N and I moved apartments. Nice, bigger place. He's been excited and affectionate and things seem okay with us. I've been busy so I've been able to distract myself and not think about things like this.

 

However, I'm aware that this will come to an end and I'll have to face the music again. I'm already dreading it. I hate this so much. I hate it all so much.

 

I'm slowly starting to accept, internally, that my relationship may come to an end and I'm going to have have accept that. I still have no hope or vision that I'm going to be able to break away completely from family dynamics. I just don't see it.

 

I feel like I can't cut him out of my life without destroying myself in the process.

 

Is it okay to just accept things as they are? Maybe stay single after my relationship ends so I don't have to deal with this again and cause pain to people who don't deserve it?

 

I am trying to take it day by day. Just biding my time. Trying to distract myself.

 

I don't know what my goal for my life is. I guess it's just to not feel like s___t.

[abitbroken]

I'm slowly starting to accept, internally, that my relationship may come to an end and I'm going to have have accept that. I still have no hope or vision that I'm going to be able to break away completely from family dynamics. I just don't see it.

 

I feel like I can't cut him out of my life without destroying myself in the process.

 

Is it okay to just accept things as they are? Maybe stay single after my relationship ends so I don't have to deal with this again and cause pain to people who don't deserve it?

 

Fudgie - you are going to the extreme - you only see a reality where you MUST cut your dad out completely like he is dead to be with N, or you must leave N to protect your dad. You are not even willing to entertain the idea of working through things and keeping N and having a typical normal, and healthy relationship with dad. In your mind, you are willing to be in no relationship just so you don't have to talk to dad about EI.

 

I strongly suggest you tell this to your therapist. I also strongly suggest that you stop looking fatalistically that you have to sacrifice your relationship and that it must end for dad.

 

You can handle this in two ways - you can sit down and have a talk with dad about this with or without a therapist and get this all out - or you can begin to exercise healthy boundaries with Dad. Any conversation you think should be with a wife and not a daughter, you put the kabosh on. When you find yourself wanting to go to dad about something, you redirect that and share with your partner instead (well, okay girl related stuff with a friend or whatever, but you know what i mean). Your partner, not dad, should know your heart best. And sometimes, do accept plans to go to an event and if that happens to be family dinner night - well you can't make it tonight.

 

You will not die, I promise. I spread my wings by moving away for a little while for work. I did move back to within 20 minutes of my folks, but it helped me become my own.

 

If you feel you don't want to be in a relationship - that's fine, but you are going to deal with this the rest of your life if you don't deal with it now. it will be another confrontation with N or another boyfriend down the road. there is no black and white here. If N sees you struggle and are working to make this better for yourself, it makes a difference. maybe he needed to draw a line in the sand to break you out of your comfort zone.

[Fudgie]

I have already done my best to improve the relationship with my Dad. He no longer badmouths my mom but I don't let him do it anyway. Questions that I would have gone to him with, I research myself or look online. I don't go to N because he wouldn't know the answers anyway. I am trying to be more emotionally independent, independent of my parents and now, slowly, I want to be independent emotionally from a partner too. I'm sick of feeling so vulnerable in relationships.

 

I also have to say, I don't have a set family night. Sometimes I see them weekends sometimes a weekday. Now I plan ahead to see them on days N is busy so he can't complain or try to object. He wanted to see some guy he's friends with, recently. I haven't met this friend and don't really want to so I used the time to see family while he was out. Things like that tend to work well.

 

Some weeks I don't get to see them which makes me sad, so I plan for the next week and plan about how to bring it up to N, like, how can I spin it to him.

 

I want a normal, healthy relationship with my dad. I really do. But apparently to N, that is not good enough. He wants him gone from my life completely.

 

So yes, this is why I feel this way. Like one has to go.

 

 

 

Aside from the current relationship, it's clear within talking to me for half an hour that I idolize my dad. I realize that this isn't ideal. I'd like to change. I'm not sure if I can.

 

I wonder if N threatens me with leaving because of this and if I stopped idolizing and all this nonsense on my end, he'd stop....

 

I don't know. I cry almost everyday.

[NymphaeaLilly]

Fudgie, this has been going on for too long. The reason you constantly cry is coz of the inner conflict and until you reconcile those two conflicted parts inside of you you're going to continue being a mess. It's time to make a decision...

 

Right now you don't sound ready to come face to face with the problem of EI and you are more OK with losing N. than working on issues with your dad.

Be honest with yourself and make a decision, since after all it's you who'll have to deal with the consequences of ether decision.

 

Just keep in mind that EI isn't going to go away by itself, nor when your parents pass away, it'll follow you everywhere you go.

[Fudgie]

I am not ready. I am hurting too much. I know I should be ready. But I'm not.

 

I wish I could just take it day by day.

[penelope13]

You can take it day by day.

[Fudgie]

I could take it day by day but I don't think that's what N wants. What if I am not ready? Will I ever be ready? How do you get rid of the pain.

[NymphaeaLilly]

No one's telling you to cut your dad out of your life, but I think you NEED to talk with your therapist about EI or find new therapist who's specialized in that field. Why aren't you ready to do that? What are you afraid of?

 

Why are you hurting so much? Can you pinpoint the exact reason for your sorrow? Please don't answer with "this whole situation is making me cry" but try to dig deeper and find the main source. Are you maybe already mourning the end of relationship with N., or maybe you are crying coz you feel guilty that we are all "attacking" your father, or maybe nether?

[Fudgie]

N is telling me to cut my dad out of my life for good. He says if I don't, ultimately, he will leave me. That is the crux of the matter.

 

I am torn into pieces because I feel like he's making me choose between him and my father and I don't want to choose. I'm so upset because I know I will have to lose one of them.

 

Talking about EI makes me so uncomfortable that I can't put it into words. I have tried to discuss certain things regarding my dad with my therapist and I had anxiety spells for several days afterward as a result.

[penelope13]

Don't try to anticipate what N wants or thinks - let N tell you himself what he thinks and wants. That's his job. It's not your job to try to anticipate the needs and thoughts of another person and to adjust your behavior accordingly - not even (or better: especially not) your father.

 

But I guess that is part of the EI problem that you always felt responsible for your father's emotional well being and for trying to anticipate in advance what his needs may be and to try to provide that for him.

 

As NymphaeL. says: try to identify what is the main root of your hurt and fear.

 

Even though at the moment it seems easier to cut N out of your life, your hesitation should show you that instinctively you know that this wouldn't be the end of your pain, but choosing dad simply seems 'choosing a known pain'.

 

As wonderful as the people on ENA are, nobody on the site is equipped to provide all the answers and support that you need, you will need the help of a trained professional. He/she will be able to guide you in redefining your relationship with your family.

[penelope13]

N is telling me to cut my dad out of my life for good. He says if I don't, ultimately, he will leave me. That is the crux of the matter.

 

Why not let him decide when (if) he is not willing to remain in the relationship anymore?

 

I can understand why he is taking the stance that he is because from where he stands he doesn't even know (from an emotional point of view) if you want to make him your emotional priority one day. Thus he says he wants you to cut all contact because it's the only solution he can think of at the moment. - But you know that he is not black and white about it either because he is NOT saying that you have to decide and cut off your family today, nor is he breaking up with you today himself.

[NymphaeaLilly]

I'm so upset because I know I will have to lose one of them.

 

That's where you are wrong. You don't have to lose ether of them you just have to put them in the appropriate places in your life.

N. is right to not want to always be the 2nd best coz that's not natural order of how things should be. And I'm sure he'd change his mind about giving you an ultimatum if he sees that you are doing something to fix your relationship with your father.

It doesn't seem like you are too uncomfortable talking about EI on eNA. What about EI makes you so anxious to discuss it with a professional who is there to help you not judge you or your father?

[Seraphim]

You guys are all acting like she has done no work on the relationship with her parents and she has lots of work. She has gone from despising her mother to getting along with her mother. She has gone from being a partnership with her dad against her mother as somebody who just wants a father and daughter relationship. She's gone from somebody who despised her siblings to somebody who wants to protect them. She's gone from a very angry person to a much more even-tempered person. I have watched all of this develop since she's been here. So it is incorrect for some of you to say that she hasn't done anything about resolving the things with her father or her family. She has done a lot of work and should be given credit for it.

 

Also no matter what the relationship with your parents nobody should force you to cut that bond. That should be your decision alone. As an example my father abused, me neglected me ,neglected my physical emotional and mental needs. My father starved me ,he didn't get the medical care when I had broken bones ,he let other people abuse me. List of his cruelty is pretty vast. My husband has never once said cut your father off for good or I'm leaving. He supports whatever I have to do to heal without making a judgment about it. He would never tell me to cut off my father. To heal properly sometimes you have to do it with the person who caused you the harm.

 

And I don't think that N is as emotionally put together as you all think he is. If anything due to his life he's probably more scarred than Fudgie is. And for him to cause her this severe conflict is just plain out WRONG. She has been growing and will continue to grow it is not like she is ignoring her problem. He should not be forcing the rate of her growth or her decisions about her familial relationships.

[Seraphim]

And probably more of what is at play here is that N doesn't like the new Fudgie. Fudgie used to be a person that thought families were crap too. And that was totally in line with N's way of thinking. He totally thinks family is shyte. And it was great while Fudgie thought the same. Now that she is developing more normal relationships with her family he doesn't like it. Because that is not in line with this thinking.

 

And also I don't see how he's second fiddle in anything. She lives with him ,she committed to spending the time with him. So she goes to see her family once in a while and that includes her dad , big whoopy doo. I for one think N needs to throw on a pair of big boy pants and get over it. You should support your partner in what they need for healing.

[Seraphim]

And also forcing someone to heal in the way you want them to or forcing their healing at a faster rate than what they can emotionally handle can be very damaging. And it has come to that point. She was doing reasonably okay until he threw in his "I'm leaving "like a little little boy. This healing is not about him it is about HER. So he needs to get over himself.

[Cheetarah]

N knew about these things to a degree before they even got in a relationship(if I remember correctly). So he knew what he was walking into. You can't cruise on into a relationship, full on knowing that you're getting what you're getting, and then try to change it later on. And not so much even leaving room for GROWTH, but "it's this or that."

 

However, I think he has every right to walk away from it if it's not something he can deal with. Yes, he's got a screwy family. And no doubt it's helped form a certain outlook. Even if it's not "right", it's still his right. An ultimatum, no 99% of the time I don't agree with that at all. And I don't here, either.

 

I disagree that you have to heal with the person who caused you the pain. I don't see the point of continually subjecting yourself to say, a cruel dynamic, when there is no acknowledgment or a desire for resolution with the other party. Unless you're just waiting to get to the point where you say enough is enough, is that healing?. Fudgie's dad doesn't want to acknowledge it, so ok - She can't make him do it. She CAN create stricter and tighter boundaries, though. Even if the EI is indefinitely left up in the air when it comes to her and her dad having any kind of resolution between themselves. And if she is willing to do so, I can't fathom why N would push and push for more than that. But on that note, he does seem like an all-or-nothing type of person in familial circumstances - However, that's his issue to deal with.

 

But it is very important for Fudgie to address it on her own, with a therapist. And sooner rather than later, although N may not be the poster child for happy family dynamics, a lot of partners would still deal with their own internal struggles about an issue like this. If it's not N, it could be someone else, even a more "well-adjusted" person.

 

I don't know how this issue feels, but I understand something making you so uncomfortable to talk about that your skin itches and you want to puke and just live on adrenaline rushes for a few days. I think this is a HUGE indicator that you are going to have to press forward and through that. There is so much there, simmering below the surface.

[Seraphim]

From any point of view we see it I'm sure we can agree that he is probably pushing too hard . If she is suicidal he is pushing too hard. And he needs to back off with his point of view.

[NymphaeaLilly]

Victoria did you intentionally forgot that she's suffering a psychological consequences of emotional incest (covert incest)? Do you know what EI is and what it does to a person?

It's NOT the same as sexual incest or any other type of child abuse so you need to STOP projecting. Her problems can't be solved the same way yours were.

In any other type of child abuse it's very clear who the abuser is and what he/she has done is plane wrong. While emotional incest doesn't have such clear boundaries and definitions, it's lines are blurry and it's hard to tell the wrong from right.

 

N. isn't the problem right now. If tomorrow she ends up with someone else THE EXACT SAME problem will appear.

 

I'm not saying ANYTHING of this easily, I've read a lot about this subject and I would never give people advices before previous extensive research through psychology books and articles.

 

Maybe you should do the same.

[Cheetarah]

Another thing, I mean this has driven her into a very deep depression. This idea of confronting, of having to choose, etc. Now anytime someone is presented with the idea of "You can have this, or me" - That is terribly upsetting. But to be driven to the brink of suicide, that is a different kind of response and it is not appropriate to the situation. That's a lot of pain, and enmeshment there. Almost like she can't survive without her father. Or that she feels she can't, rather, on some primitive level.

 

So N's pushing, it kind of sounds like it is self-serving(just based off what I know of him here, and the way that he is)...I don't know if it's so much about Fudgie's best interests as it is about his own stunted emotional growth in THIS area, anyway. And I don't think that's entirely a conscious thought either, but I digress - It doesn't have to be this horrible thing on it's OWN. To be at this point, this is a desperate scream for help.

[Seraphim]

I can give advice any place I like.

 

And yes I realize what emotional incest is ,thank you. And no I'm not ignorant of the fact I can read.

 

And yes I realize she does have some things to sort out. What I am saying is he is pushing his own agenda overtop of what her healing needs to be. He is making this all about himself when it is about her.

 

No ,I am not projecting. I'm trying to help someone that I see as a friend.

[Cheetarah]

No, I don't think her being suicidal necessarily means he is pushing too hard. I think it means she has so much to unearth that she has been suppressing. It's not an appropriate response.

[Seraphim]

And if you don't like my advice maybe put me on ignore okay ,don't tell me what to do.

[NymphaeaLilly]

And if you don't like my advice maybe put me on ignore okay ,don't tell me what to do.

 

I don't have anything personally against you so putting you on a ignore list would be a bit too much, don't you think.

 

I'm sorry if I offended you with my post, not my intention at all.

 

I just think your advice can do harm if Fudgie shifts blame on N. as you do. N. probably has a lot of his own baggage but that is a SEPARATE problem from this one. The message N. wanted to deliver to Fudgie was that he won't tolerate "father idolizing" forever and she has to deal with it. He did it best way he thought would make her realize how serious he is. It of course wasn't the best way but he just doesn't know better.

And what makes me sure of it is that since he told her about ultimatum he hasn't done a thing about his "threat". He didn't stop their move!

 

And I agree with Cheetarah, her reaction to ultimatum is way over the top.

[Seraphim]

Then lets focus on helping Fudgie and not about who has the "credentials" to post on a thread, okay. Because who gets to post where is up to kamurj not the members.