Was I raped? And was I "asking for it"?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Empowerment means nothing to some sickos. What he did was rape and what you aer doing is blaming the victim.

Putting herself in dicey situations means nothing. I dont care if a woman goes out at 3am waering a halter and mini-skirt. Rape is rape! He was wrong. its not about her not protecting herself, not about understanding his mindset. its about the fact he violated her against her will. We all have rights. She should be able to go where she wants with who she wants without getting violated. Geeze. Her only mistake was trusting someone she shouldnt. Rough sex is not rape. She was not asking for it. She said no anal and that is RAPE. After the he showed his disrespect by trying to humilate her.

 

I am not at all "blaming the victim"...I specifically stated that there was no excuse for that guy's behaviour. HOWEVER, in life you have to weigh the risks and benefits. Engaging in this kind of casual sexual activity, then having a three month break after the guy goes into the military, and then booking the same kind of raunchy, casual sexual encounter with this guy is certainly NOT doing enough to protect yourself. Would one go walking in the woods alone at night in the dark without knowing the risks of what could be lurking. In life people are told to take precautions to protect themself...sadly when it comes to sex, nobody seems to hold themselves responsible for protecting themself and everyone makes excuses for rash behaviour done in the name of getting sexual needs met and experimenting with sex.

[OptomisticGirl]

I lean toward looking at this same, but not in a putting down way to the OP. I think the OP should look at this and take these things going FORWARD with this continued lifestyle but not look back at this encounter with this mindset because it brings on the mentality 'I was asking for it.' However I don't agree with #3. Rape/abuse is about power - you'd be amazed at the instincts that take over when put in that type of situation. Some people run, scream, kick, bite - others simply freeze. It doesn't mean they were asking for it more or they didn't try hard enough to stop the rape/abuse, it's just a different animal instinct to danger.

[Roxie84]

You make a very realistic and rational argument. However, easier said than done.

 

1. After this I was in a mental and emotional daze that took a long time to come out of. I didn't tell a soul what happened, yet I am extremely open with the people in my life. Feeling like I did this to myself and that I asked for it - the idea that I was actually raped didn't even occur to me until months later when I read a case in school (a case where a girl willingly participated in a gang bang but it was found as rape when they went against the rules).

 

2. If I couldn't tell my best friend, there was absolutely no way I was going to sit in a police station and tell them all the details. When I considered doing so, the thought crossed my mind that even the police would disregard this.

 

3. To this day, I have two major concerns about going to the police. For one, I am a paralegal (which is different from an American paralegal.. in Canada we represent people similarly to a lawyer). I go to court and know many of the police officers in my city by name. This would be extremely humiliating for me if any of my peers were to catch wind of this. Yes they are supposed to uphold a certain level of confidentiality and integrity, but people talk - bottom line. Secondly, I had an incident prior to this where my boyfriend had physically abused me and made severe threats of death and bodily harm. When I went to the police, they did absolutly nothing to help - he spent one night in jail, got a fine, was told not to communicate with me, and he was free to go when he sobered up. When I tried to follow up with police, they were abrupt and annoyed by my phone call and never bothered to tell me when he was released -in a nutshell, they thought my case was silly.

 

I thank you for your input, but pointing the blame on myself is only going to make this more difficult to move forward.

[Donovan79]

Sorry this happened, but in my opinion, "rape" is not going to hold water if you wanted to have sex with him, you were agreeing to domination, you met on a website for the purpose of sex alone, you were laying on the bed in the rented hotel room in order to have sex and he did something that you felt crossed the line. That is actually more what happened....You got way more than you bargained for and now you are saying he raped you. You met him under the pretense of having a f*ck budding and you both wanted domination. He might have had a different idea of what that meant. Charging him might nearly be impossible if you wanted sex but just NOT anal sex.

 

I know my opinion will not be popular.

 

You're right. It's not popular because it's simply wrong. A girl can agree to have sex with a guy, both get naked, intercourse can begin, but if she says no HE HAS TO STOP. She said the safeword, which is the point of a safeword. He simply lost control of himself due to whatever f***ed up internal misfire he now has in his wiring and kept going when she didn't want him to. At what point is it no longer rape to you? If they got naked consensually but she said no before he touched her and he forced her anyway is that rape? If they met and were in the same room clothed and not touching and she said no but he still forced her is that rape?

 

The poor girl went out for some fun with a guy she thought she knew and had met more than once before, and partway through the meetup he turned out to be a pyscho and she cried for him to stop and for help and he didn't. What more do you need? It's not her fault.

[Pinnacle]

I thank you for your input, but pointing the blame on myself is only going to make this more difficult to move forward.

 

By no means am I trying to shift the blame on you. I just wanted to simply state that a lot of activities in life involve dealing with and encountering different risks. People everyday deal with different types of risks and adversity in their lives. Going on roller coasters is a lot of fun, but maybe the brakes go out or something. Internet dating can be fun for a lot of people. but there is always that small chance a bad thing can happen such as getting stood up, abuse, what-have-you. Different people have different risk tolerant. For example, I would never take out a loan from a mob boss because that is some risky business.

 

Not to babble, there is risk you invited but you are still the victim here and I don't want to take away from that. Perhaps you can contact different authorities rather than the local one. What can be consensual or not can be a grey area. You won't get a lot of help if you don't seek it. I really do suggest you at least contact a therapist right away.

[Kjv1611ad]

This is absolutely 100 percent rape. He forced her to have anal sex. They had boundaries they set up before hand and he violated these. HOW HORRIBLE.

 

I do not think risk management calculations and discussions are even an appropriate conversation topic right now, to be honest.....

[OptomisticGirl]

This is absolutely 100 percent rape. He forced her to have anal sex. They had boundaries they set up before hand and he violated these. HOW HORRIBLE.

 

I do not think risk management calculations and discussions are even an appropriate conversation topic right now, to be honest.....

 

As a abuse survivor, I fully disagree with the last statement. The best thing the OP can take out of this horrible experience is to not repeat the same actions (this does not mean she was 'asking for it' or 'brought it on herself'), but it's one of the things my therapy taught me to do. Look back and realize were it went wrong and always try to negative that from happening again the best you can. Since the OP doesn't feel like taking it to the police for her profressional reasons (going to the police is a decision she only can make) she then needs to seek therapy to move forward.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

when I read a case in school (a case where a girl willingly participated in a gang bang but it was found as rape when they went against the rules).

 

I don't know the case and what was done to her...but WILLINGLY participating in a gang bang is just plain reckless behaviour because you are counting on people who are totally aroused and in a pack mentality to actually have common sense. This is a case of the woman acting out a fantasy without considering reality and what could potentially happen. I certainly hope the judge in that case pointed out to her the folly of her actions.

[Roxie84]

I don't know the case and what was done to her...but WILLINGLY participating in a gang bang is just plain reckless behaviour because you are counting on people who are totally aroused and in a pack mentality to actually have common sense. This is a case of the woman acting out a fantasy without considering reality and what could potentially happen. I certainly hope the judge in that case pointed out to her the folly of her actions.

 

Hmmm I can't quite remember the case exactly, it was a couple years ago when I read it and we used to read a lot of them in school.. But from what I remember it was a gang bang at a sex club where there was a strict "no means no" policy. The female was only suppsed to be with a few men but ended up being tied down and raped by something like 15 men, she was crying, bleeding, etc. and the sick assholes kept going for a few hours. People enjoy swingers lifestyles and go to establishments like that to be safe - I don't care how "promiscuous" a person wants to be, no one asks for something like that.

 

But anyways, I appreciate everyone's input. I'm still very confused about whether I want to go to the police, but having read everyone's opinions I'm starting to consider it. But regardless, I am going to look into seeing a sex counseller.

[Donovan79]

Secondly, I had an incident prior to this where my boyfriend had physically abused me and made severe threats of death and bodily harm.

 

Roxie84, think very carefully about the events that have occurred to you. Now, I stand by saying that what happened is not your fault. But for you to have been physically abused in this way earlier -- mentally and emotionally -- and then to actively seek out S&M later is a huge red flag. And it's one that I would guess goes back far, far earlier than the incident with your prior boyfriend. I won't ask you here if you were abused at a young age by a man at some point, but the fact that you're almost looking to get hurt now -- and it's actually happened more than once -- is a big sign that you really need to find a good professional who you trust enough pour your heart out to.

 

If you do this and work hard with them, though, you will get better. If you don't, I worry that one to two relationships from now you may put yourself in a position where the same thing or even worse happens. Like others have said, we often can't see the complexities of our own screwed up wiring. Please, please talk to someone who can.

[OptomisticGirl]

I would be careful before you start throwing around the fact 'you people' have no idea what that can do to a person considering I myself was molested from the ages of 8-12. No one is blaming the victim - however everyone reads the same situation differently. It doesn't mean we are blaming the victim or saying she was asking for it or deserved it - I simply look at the facts. She was raped, most def. She did not deserve it and was not asking for it, however in order to grow from this situation and move forward, one most look back and analyze the situation. Since she was not a child she willingly walked into this lifestyle. Not the situation, didn't deserve to be raped, but if this a lifestyle she wants to continue to have (as most people have a sexual preference) then she needs to look back and take from this horrible situation and put that toward moving on from it.

 

Simply because people do not come in with sympathy does not mean that is not their intention. I for one LOATHED sympathy (and still do) as a abuse survivor, therefore the advice I give will never, ever be 'you poor thing'. I take a constructive, clinic view of situations like this because for me it helped the moving on process. If my advice does not help the OP then she can simply ignore it. However I advice like I healed.

[HeartGoesOn]

Moderator Note: Please be respectful of others opinions, and avoid turning this thread into a debate.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I agree that it was sick and twisted. However, I do think it is very naive to think that going to a sex club and choosing a gang bang from the menu is going to guarantee anyone safety...not even the men who engage in it...as who knows what disease they can contract from that kind of behaviour. No, she should not have been gang raped like that and certainly didn't deserve it...but people have to realize that not all sexual fantasies are safe to make reality.

[Roxie84]

I agree that it was sick and twisted. However, I do think it is very naive to think that going to a sex club and choosing a gang bang from the menu is going to guarantee anyone safety...not even the men who engage in it...as who knows what disease they can contract from that kind of behaviour. No, she should not have been gang raped like that and certainly didn't deserve it...but people have to realize that not all sexual fantasies are safe to make reality.

 

Oh absolutely, and I wouldn't personally choose to do something like that even if it was a big fantasy. I get what everyone's saying - you can't put yourself in the line of fire and expect to stay safe. At the same time, I spent a reasonably long time with this person. We had a sexual friendship for almost 6 months before he went to navy training. If I had to estimate, I'd say I had spent at least 20 nights over at his house or in hotels with him. We had a mutual friend, we spoke on the phone or texted faily often, we were friends on social networking sites - you get the idea. I would have been much more clear on the severity of the situation if this had happened the first or second time we were intimate.

 

Know what I mean? I didn't know him like a best friend, but I also had a level of trust for him. We were friends for 9 or 10 months before this happened. One of the comments above mentioned marital rape - even people with deeper trust and commitment still commit rape. Yes, it is important to make wise decisions and learn from your mistakes, but sometimes these things can happen with someone you trust.

[Seraphim]

Blaming the victim takes away the entire fault of the abuser. The faulty reasoning in that lies with the fact that not all advice fits all situations. What about children??? Do we blame them for being raped too?? I mean they live in the house with the abuser right??? I can tell you why I did not tell. My rapist told me if I did not co operate and shut my mouth he would kill my brother and he meant it. Stop blaming the victim people. It does not matter what you wear or where you are, you should NOT be violated and the ONLY person at fault is the VIOLATOR.

 

Also too unless you have been raped you have NO clue how you are going to react or what you would do and I am sure you would feel a whole hell of a lot worse with people telling you it is your fault you were raped.

 

Old ladies in nursing homes yet raped, babies get raped, women in their own homes get raped. I wish people would QUIT thinking this is about sex. IT IS NOT.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Again, as has been repeated many times by several of us...nobody is blaming the victim for being raped. We are simply saying that in this particular situation other, wiser choices could have been made. Our posts are about the OPs situation, not about rape of children, rape during civil war, rape at senior's homes, rape of spouses etc. It is the OP's situation ONLY that we are addressing...and her example of the out of control gang rape of someone who made a choice to go to a sex club and ask for a gang bang.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

The thing is your "relationship" was based not really on friendship and respect, it was based on casual sex with domination and rough sex as the major item on the menu. If the two of you were really friends, there would have been a catching up period when he came back, dinner, how's it going, tell me what it was like in training etc. But the get-together was simply about having rough, dominant sex again. Was there any talk about the boundaries, reiteration of the "rules". 3 months away from it all with it not being a top priority can result in forgetting the "rules" that had been set up...especially if he had this kind of arrangement with another woman or had just had rough sex with another woman the day before who didn't have those rules.

[Seraphim]

Again you are thinking rape is about sex. It isn't.

[OptomisticGirl]

The fact rape is about power makes situations like these that more dangerous. Your going into a situation (sex club, dom/sub) in which power is automatically given up upon entering. It still doesn't mean you are asking to be raped but it's the age old thing. I know there are muggers out there, therefore I take the precautions as best as I can. If I'm mugged it doesn't make it my fault (as I wasn't the one doing the mugging) but it would be irresponsible on my part to be walking down a dark alley at night by myself were this is more likely to happen.

 

Not saying sex clubs are the dom/sub community is open ground for rapists but the nature of that lifestyle is to control, to seek power. I think it's easier for them to hide within that lifestyle than in any other lifestyle which, to me, is what makes that lifestyle so dangerous. But all this is null and void to the OP. She was raped. She can't change any previous course of action or undo anything, she can only move forward while looking at this horrible experience to better this lifestyle (if she chooses to stay in it). We can all knock our heads together and say 'yes, you were raped' but that's obvious. The point is to decontruct the situation, determine if you need to make changes to this lifestyle or not, what might have went wrong, and use that to move forward.

[Sapientia]

Who knows what happened to him during training? But none of that matters: you were raped and quite brutally.

 

Unfortunately, unless you went to police soon after and was examined, its unlikely you will be able to pursue any sort of reasonable justice. You can make a complaint to the police, but consider carefully your motives in doing so. Yes, he should be reported so he doesn't do this to another but again, there is a window of credibility for such things. I sat on a rape jury and, unfortunately, we had to let the scumbag off even though we all knew he probably did do it. Proof beyond reasonable doubt is the standard for this kind of charge (for good reason, there are women who, unfortunately, will accuse a man after the fact from guilt even tho it was consentual at the time). Sorry. Consider counselling and something empowering like martial arts training.

[OptomisticGirl]

Yes, I strongly suggust this OP. I took classes when I started therapy and it was the most empowering thing I could have done and suggust it to any survivor.

[Roxie84]

Yes, I strongly suggust this OP. I took classes when I started therapy and it was the most empowering thing I could have done and suggust it to any survivor.

 

Funny enough, I was just out with friends tonight who were showing me all the stuff they learned in their self-defence class. I think its a sign, maybe I should check it out too lol

[Lonewing]

Yes, you very well may have been raped. Clearly, he over the bounds of what you wanted to do, so in that regards, yes, rape.

 

I think it's best in this case to simply live and let go.

 

There's no telling if he will or will not do this sort of thing agian, but it's out of your hands now, and you have to be ok with that. He's getting married, which means the lifespan of those nudies he has of you should very well be shortlived, unless he wants to explain to his wife someday why he still has nudies of girls he once dated. If he abuses her, it's only a matter of time before his world collapses.

 

I realize we live in a "Thou must condemn on high for all eternity" culture nowadays, but I believe the cleanest route of healing is the one that does not tear back open the wound. He'll live with it for the rest of his life, he knows what happened, and I believe this will be punishment for him enough. Hopefully while he was with you, he learned that he MUST be with a partner who enjoys anal sex - that's the big lesson here, I do believe, so there is never this line again. If you enjoyed anal, there would never have been any doubt in your mind about this, it would have just been another wild crazy night with your sexy sailor.

 

Granted, these acts on his part were not sex. They were about dominance/submission. I realize there are many people who will come out and defend BSDM, but then I have known a girl who was in such a relationship and she very well explained the whole sick arrangement to me. Being in that situation really isn't about sex or love, it's about power and control. She flat out called it abuse, but then, she told me how she craved that abuse, to the point where she could no longer be with a guy who was nothign but sweet to her. We know this because after dating the sweetest guy for about two years, she went back to her ex to be abused again. Not loved, abused. Her words. But how she loved that abuse... Marilyn Manson, Sweet Dreams, comes to mind.

 

Yes, he abused you, and not once, but twice - once by anal rape, once by humiliation [urination]. It was entirely about control and satisfying his sexual/carnal urges, with no care about you as a person or an individual, but you as a block of meat for his satisfaction.

 

Do what you need to for yourself, put time and distance between you and him, and seek a man who has no desire to ever have anal sex - ever. And if you are going to experiment with rough sex and the whole BSDM route, let me suggest you stop now while you are ahead. There's nothing pretty about it, unless you like getting off to it, in which case you may just have to accept that this is a part of who you are - you like being abused. I suggest, though, that you find a route where you don't need this abuse in your life.

 

I wish you the best of luck finding a warm sweet man to hold you, but I fear that if you don't get over your Dominance/sumbission fetish, he won't be enough unless he also dominates you. I only say this because I have dated a girl who is self-perscribed Submissive [more like passive aggressive, Ha!!] and then there is this girl who I previously mentioned, same crowd. Their other similarity is, they used one guy to springboard to the next guy [or back to the old guy] but in either case, what they had was not enough to satisfy their psychological "needs."

 

The best of luck to you. I wouldn't worry so much about him. Like I said, if he does it again, he'll be gone, and if not, well, his family will live happily ever after. You will too, once you get through what you have to do to get there.

[Roxie84]

Hey Lonewing,

 

I know what you're saying, but just to clarify it wasn't the way-out-there BDSM stuff you're talking about. I know many people who are into the whole real life master/slave arrangement and all the stuff that comes with it. Me and this guy just played around with some sex toys, role playing, and some spanking and hair pulling. It was never about creating being his slave, just his "toy", if you will, while we had our fun and talked dirty. The full-out costumes, straight jackets, ball gags etc. are totally cool, but not my thing lol

[Lonewing]

Hey Lonewing,

 

I know what you're saying, but just to clarify it wasn't the way-out-there BDSM stuff you're talking about. I know many people who are into the whole real life master/slave arrangement and all the stuff that comes with it. Me and this guy just played around with some sex toys, role playing, and some spanking and hair pulling. It was never about creating being his slave, just his "toy", if you will, while we had our fun and talked dirty. The full-out costumes, straight jackets, ball gags etc. are totally cool, but not my thing lol

 

See, here is part of the perception problem. You were in a real life Slave/Master arrangement, you just haven't realized it yet. This is about as "far out there" as it needs to be to qualify. If you had a safety word, you qualify. To you, you were just a "Toy." What you didn't understand is that to him, you were his slave - or worse, that he simply doesn't play very nicely with his toys.

 

The very central issue here is, you felt you were just his "toy." That alone is a precarious position to be in, one that can indeed lead to a situation like this, because you are no longer in a position where you are something that is respected or equal, but rather, something for delight and amusement -a mere plaything - - and not for YOUR delight and amusement, but HIS delight and amusement. If you asked him to make you his toy, he did. Yes, I realize you had a 'safe word,' but at that point when you used it, he was no longer thinking about you as a person, but you as his toy. At that point, no word would have been safe.

 

If you like being a "toy," these kinds of situations are going to come up. Take a good look at any kid's toy collection, you see some kids play nice and all their toys are still complete and shiny and might as well be just taken out of the box; these kids are very rare. Other kids play rough and many of their toys are broken, but if the kid cares at all, he'll still have all or most of the pieces, or the toys will be glued and bangaged together, or...well, they're jsut missing pieces. These kids are common. And then you have some kids who take the hammers to their toys or stick firecrackers up their toys' rears and blow them to kingdom come. I dare say, you got the last little boy - you met Sid. And they are more common than you might think.

 

I'd suggest using the "Do you like anal?" question as a perfect prescreening question for any future dates, throw it in there somewhere between date 2 and date 3. Most of your issues will be avoided right there, because if your guy Honestly never wants to do it, you'll never have to say "No." I'd also suggest not lowering yourself to Toy status again, unless you can handle the full repercussions of what that might lead to, or at the very least, until you full well know the guy you're with and what kind of Boy he is - I'm talking in a relationship for long months or years - so you have that trust within you to know he's NOT going to cross the line.