open relationship-things are getting confusing

[Blue Spiral]

He reminds me of these traditionally-married guys that have affairs...they want one woman that they can sexually control, but they want to be free to sleep with whomever. He's got one foot in the old world (a man telling a woman what to do) and one foot in the new world (screw monogamy, no pun intended). He's trying to have his cake and eat it too. In a genuine open relationship, the parties don't attempt to control each other.

[rosephase]

I'm in a kind of open relationship and if you guys aren't being clear about boundaries and spending time talking about what you need and want out of this it WILL blow up. You need to be clear about what "open relationship" means to both of you. You need to be clear about what you do and don't want. Until you guys are talking and understanding each other you'll just end up hurting each other and being hurt.

[sandrawg]

You're exactly right. We're getting together tonight to talk about things. I'm just not sure what the point is, if he can never be in love with me.

 

I'm in a kind of open relationship and if you guys aren't being clear about boundaries and spending time talking about what you need and want out of this it WILL blow up. You need to be clear about what "open relationship" means to both of you. You need to be clear about what you do and don't want. Until you guys are talking and understanding each other you'll just end up hurting each other and being hurt.

[sandrawg]

I really love this guy-this is hard. I feel like I need to start, right off the bat, with asking him how he really feels about me, and whether things truly ARE over with his ex. If there's no chance he could really love me, and he's not yet done with the ex..there's no point in proceeding. Otherwise, I think he and I need to have a frank discussion about open relationship rules and boundaries, if we are going to move forward.

[abitbroken]

Seriously..why is he "desperately trying to impress me" if he's not in love with me?

 

candlelight dinners are part of foreplay. They don't mean "you are my one and only". Also, if you are truly in love with him, then why are you agreeing to an open relationship?

[sandrawg]

I don't get what you're asking here. Love does not nec equal "monogamy." Nor does love mean you control another person like a possession.

 

Frankly, I don't think monogamy works, for various reasons. Look at the statistics on people who cheat on each other.

 

You can love someone and still want to have casual relationships with other people. Just ask anyone else who's replied here, who's either IN an open relationship now, or has done it in the past.

 

I get that open relationships come with their own set of challenges, but ALL relationships require genuine love, honesty, communication, trust and respect. If you have all of those things, then I believe you can successfully navigate an open relationship.

 

candlelight dinners are part of foreplay. They don't mean "you are my one and only". Also, if you are truly in love with him, then why are you agreeing to an open relationship?

[abitbroken]

I don't get what you're asking here. Love does not nec equal "monogamy." Nor does love mean you control another person like a possession.

 

Frankly, I don't think monogamy works, for various reasons. Look at the statistics on people who cheat on each other.

 

You can love someone and still want to have casual relationships with other people. Just ask anyone else who's replied here, who's either IN an open relationship now, or has done it in the past.

 

I get that open relationships come with their own set of challenges, but ALL relationships require genuine love, honesty, communication, trust and respect. If you have all of those things, then I believe you can successfully navigate an open relationship.

 

that sounds very philosophical and makes sense "on paper," but you say you love him, and are not liking the fact that he is sleeping with women you don't know about, yet he needs to know what you are up to. And you talk about one person being your "primary" and want him to be it, or assume it. He clearly doesn't ascribe to the same view or doesn't feel the same. You seem to basically want a one on one relationship with him that allows occasional threesomes or sleeping with someone else. The tight relationship has to be established first - it is hard to establish that without a foundation other than sleeping with eachother.

 

You say you believe you can successfully navigate an open relationship, yet you are here discouraged. it seems to me he sees this as FWB. Is that basically what you want, or are you asking more of him and he doesn't want/can't live up to that?

[sandrawg]

I didn't say I could successfully navigate an open rel'ship..I just meant, if love honesty trust etc are there, then yeah, I believe people can successfully have an open rel'ship with someone they love.

 

I'm not sure he and I could navigate this at all. He says he does have feelings for me but isn't in love with me yet...so I think this is beyond an FWB thing. I mean, we don't just sleep together, we go out on dates, and we talk/IM/text constantly.

 

I think you are probably right, tho, and raising a good point that, you can't RUN before you can WALK. And maybe we put the cart before the horse, setting this up as an open rel'ship, before we even established a good foundation with each other.

 

thanks.

[april15]

I think this is a classic example of wanting his cake and eat it too. I do not think he is in love with you but loves having you around and having sex with you, yet..... he wants to pursue other women as well, thus the open relationship. IF you can communitcate honestly with him your boundaries and IF he can honestly say he is good with those boundaries, this relationship could have a future. Those are two huge "IFS" that are very difficult. Be honest with yourself and with him now to save a world of hurt later.

[sandrawg]

I agree. I'm speaking with him tonight, and I think this is how I am going to frame it.

 

1) Does he have the potential to love me, if he's not in love with me now.

 

2) Is he done with his ex? I mean...REALLY done.

 

If both of those answers are no, there's probably not much cause to go any further.

 

Next, I plan to lay out what my boundaries are. THe question then is..can he accept them? If not, no need to go any farther.

 

Thanks for all of the advice, everyone.

 

I think this is a classic example of wanting his cake and eat it too. I do not think he is in love with you but loves having you around and having sex with you, yet..... he wants to pursue other women as well, thus the open relationship. IF you can communitcate honestly with him your boundaries and IF he can honestly say he is good with those boundaries, this relationship could have a future. Those are two huge "IFS" that are very difficult. Be honest with yourself and with him now to save a world of hurt later.

[agent1607307371]

Actually, for everyone saying this is the guy having his cake, I think it's the OP who's trying for that even more than him.

 

OP, open relationships are hard. I've had them. They need lots of honesty, lots of communications, lots of being on the same level. And I truly suspect you of moving for this OR because you want more of him than you can get, but are taking refuge in semantics. Is he as into the OR thing as you are? Or are you the force behind it?

[DN]

Actually, for everyone saying this is the guy having his cake, I think it's the OP who's trying for that even more than him.

 

OP, open relationships are hard. I've had them. They need lots of honesty, lots of communications, lots of being on the same level. And I truly suspect you of moving for this OR because you want more of him than you can get, but are taking refuge in semantics. Is he as into the OR thing as you are? Or are you the force behind it?

I agree with agent. He is doing nothing wrong.

 

What you need to do is to agree with him what the 'rules' of your relationship should be. If you can't agree then go your separate ways.

[sandrawg]

So, are you suggesting I proposed the OR, because I figured it was the only way he'd want to be in a relationship with me, because he's not in love w me?

 

hmmm.

 

That's not really how it happened...we kind of just fell into it. I'm bisexual, so the OR partly was to give me the freedom to see women. He has no problem with this because, like a lot of guys, he is turned on by 2 women. In my last relationship, we had somewhat of an OR for this very reason. My ex was cool w me "dating" women, but he didn't see other women, nor did I see other men.

 

Actually, for everyone saying this is the guy having his cake, I think it's the OP who's trying for that even more than him.

 

OP, open relationships are hard. I've had them. They need lots of honesty, lots of communications, lots of being on the same level. And I truly suspect you of moving for this OR because you want more of him than you can get, but are taking refuge in semantics. Is he as into the OR thing as you are? Or are you the force behind it?

[agent1607307371]

OP, I'm bisexual and I don't see why you need an OR because you are bi.

 

At the end of the day, he just doesn't behave as though he's into you.

 

But then, neither do you. I wouldn't tell someone I love them if they proposed an open relationship (now). Especially if I was still burnt from an older relationship.

 

He has no problem with this because, like a lot of guys, he is turned on by 2 women.

That's the idea. The reality is often very different.

 

At the end of the day, conventional relationships are easy to fall into because everyone is raised to know the rules. Non-mongamy has as many different shapes as there are people. If you haven't discussed boundaries, you can't know what relationship you have.

 

At the end of the day, he's said he isn't going to fall in love with you. He can engage in all the fun romantic behaviours he likes, but they are just behaviours and don't speak to any feelings. So you can believe him, or not.

[sandrawg]

UH...when did I say I was "burnt from an older relationship"??

 

You sure are reading a lot into things and filling in your own gaps.

[agent1607307371]

Actually, I was referencing what you said about his comments regarding his ex (a desire to still be with her).

 

But you do write about a bad ex bf in your first post.

 

 

You know, rereading one of your older posts about the necessity of having a primary - I think that's the problem. You want to treat this guy like he's your no1, but for him, that spot is still taken by his ex and you're just the 2ndary.

[sandrawg]

Update:

 

So..he told me he hadn't spoken to his ex in ages. That she's out of the picture. We discussed boundaries and that, the only way this will work is if we are both involved with any OTHER person we bring into the relationship. That person has to be agreed upon by both of us. The person also has to be told that we're not looking for anyone to take each other's place. We are each other's primary, and that's not going to change. So..this was discussed.

 

The other night, we went to a happy hour which is full of kinky people/swingers in our community. It turned into a weird night. Started out fine..he was very affectionate with me..I was introducing him to people as my boyfriend..a mutual friend of ours was there with a new woman he's seeing, who is African American.

 

My bf says to me, "She's cute. Yknow, I have a weakness for dark chicks...black women, women from Asia, India.."

 

I didn't quite know what to say to that. I am NOT black; I'm the total opposite. I couldn't be more white. I had no idea why he'd say all this.

 

Then, a little later, this Indian chick with giant breasts starts flirting w my bf, and he flirted back. He invited her outside for a cigarette. I felt totally left out.

 

There was a guy selling roses..my bf bought a bunch. The first one, he gives to the Indian chick. I got the 2nd one. Then he handed them out to a few other people.

 

I tried to just..not let any of this bother me. He didn't even introduce me to the girl as his gf, and this was RIGHT after him telling me he liked Indian, black, etc. women.

 

Later, the Indian chick was leaving, so she stopped by where my bf was playing pool and gave him her number. She used the excuse that she wanted him to text her the name of the electronic cigarette he smokes.

 

So, fine..I was NOT happy about this, but I tried to ignore it. We went home together, had a nice time.

 

Next day, I find out that this Indian chick is in a polyamorous relationship with this guy who's very much a "manwhore." He sleeps w every girl (I'm one of the few in town he hasn't slept with.)

 

I text this to my bf and he makes some comment along the lines of how the girl is now uninteresting to him.

 

I ask him, uninteresting? Were you considering her, or something?

 

HE said he'd been hoping to have her teach him rope-tying. He calls me up. I ask him, if you were just looking for a platonic lesson in rope-tying, why would you care that she's seeing that sl*tty guy?

 

Then he made some comment along the lines of, of course, he was interested in her..she had big boobs.

 

I think he made his true intentions known--that he wanted to sleep w this girl--but didn't mean to. I feel like the whole "I want her to teach me rope tying" was an excuse to see her again. After all, I introduced him at the happy hour to a friend of mine who is a professional rope rigger, because I knew he wanted to learn rope. Why would he go to this girl, whom he just met?

 

I'm so upset...this cr*p just keeps happening with him, and I don't think I can take it anymore. If it's not the ex, it's some skank in the bar...

 

 

Actually, I was referencing what you said about his comments regarding his ex (a desire to still be with her).

 

But you do write about a bad ex bf in your first post.

 

 

You know, rereading one of your older posts about the necessity of having a primary - I think that's the problem. You want to treat this guy like he's your no1, but for him, that spot is still taken by his ex and you're just the 2ndary.

[Luna Sea]

I skimmed the previous posts, and to me it really sounds like you guys are still on different pages. Your boyfriend's behaviour is typical of someone in an open relationship; ie. flirting, openly stating attraction towards another, expressing desire to sleep with others...etc. Whereas your idea of an open relationship is being monogamous most of the time, with occasional threesomes, and that you have the final say in who he sleeps with.

 

Also, I think an element lacking in your OR is a secure, loving bond between you two. I've never been in one so I can't say for sure, but I think that's why you're jealous. You don't feel like his #1 because he doesn't love you, so when he shows interest in others, you feel threatened.

[AbombSnowMan]

I don't really understand, you guys agree that you will decide together who you have sex with and you bring him to a place with a bunch of swingers, kinky people but it seems like if he shows you that hes interested in anybody you get mad. I think your too jealous for this open relationship to work out.