What do employers of 20-somethings think of visible tattoos?

[90_hour_sleep]

have to respect the attitude here that ''good jobs'' are relatively unattainable under these circumstances. but ''good jobs'' are not by definition corporate positions. consider the guy sitting on the plane next to you with a giant scorpion on his neck...wearing dirty work boots...and dusty carhartts. now...before you make a snap judgement that this guy is somehow unemployable...consider also that he's well into the six figure price range. now...maybe that's not a ''good job'' because he doesn't wear fancy suit and have someone to answer his phones...but it's still above average in terms of the pay scale.

 

i think this notion is predominantly a white collar creation. in reality, the employment world is much bigger than any of this. there are plenty of ways to earn a more than adequate living regardless of any 'questionable' attributes.

[annie24]

I agree - there are many different types of jobs out there, not just conservative jobs.

 

I know it's not legal to discriminate on looks - but people do it all the time. I was talking to a guy last week. He told me at his organization, a few years ago, they would get 2-3 applications per open slot. Now it is 160. With 160 applicants, they can cut you for any reason, from a misplaced comma on your resume, to whatever else they don't like.

[90_hour_sleep]

I agree - there are many different types of jobs out there, not just conservative jobs.

 

I know it's not legal to discriminate on looks - but people do it all the time. I was talking to a guy last week. He told me at his organization, a few years ago, they would get 2-3 applications per open slot. Now it is 160. With 160 applicants, they can cut you for any reason, from a misplaced comma on your resume, to whatever else they don't like.

 

in addition to this...it's farily unlikely that your resume will get any attention at all with such a large applicant bank. jobs almost always come by way of some sort of reference. if your foot's not at least part way in the door before your application/resume is in on the right desk, it probably won't even get a glance.

[annie24]

in addition to this...it's farily unlikely that your resume will get any attention at all with such a large applicant bank. jobs almost always come by way of some sort of reference. if your foot's not at least part way in the door before your application/resume is in on the right desk, it probably won't even get a glance.

 

I know - it's crazy. That's what I'm finding out. My most promising job leads so far have been via people I have met in person at conferences...

[Alezia]

While I have nothing personally with tatoos, I agree they do not look overtly professional. First impressions count for a lot.

[90_hour_sleep]

I know - it's crazy. That's what I'm finding out. My most promising job leads so far have been via people I have met in person at conferences...

 

it's definitely a struggle.

 

it does make sense though. what person is going to pour over hundreds of resumes when steve in accounting's wife has a good friend who would be just perfect for the job. it's just the way it works.

 

remember seeing your job thread, annie. did anything ever come of your search? sooner or later you'll find that it's you that knows the right person.

[catfeeder]

I work in an art department with photographers, visual stylists and graphic artists. Tattoos go unnoticed as does everything else but portfolios and experience. It often so happens that our winning candidates might have a tattoo or more, but they're also well established as top artists in their specialty--or else they've come in as freelancers and have earned an offer for a permanent job.

[Ariel85]

OP - what is your daughter interested in doing? You said she has a degree in English. If she's interested in writing, there's a chance she could get hired at a hip magazine or local paper.

[FathomFear]

I'm personally appalled at the number of kids my age who have no end in sight in the tattoos they have on them and in the planning stages, and yet they have not made that connection with the fact that people in Good jobs do NOT negatively alter their appearance in that manner. Even outside of work, Tattoos are NOT attractive, at least, to me. I see tattoos, I generally don't even give the girl a chance - it's one of my breaking points.

 

Lonewing, you're sort of begging the question though. You don't really argue why a tattoo should hurt one's ability to get employment. You just say that it does. Heck, at some point in our not-so-distant past being in an interracial relationship would have hurt job prospects too. But that in no way was that a statement against the validity of interracial relationships. It was just a reflection of the cultural attitude of the time.

 

Personally speaking, I think we're going to see a rather large sea change over the next 15-25 years. The puritan attitudes specifically in North America against body art will subside once the current old generation retires. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I manage a team of 35 or so people and hire at least once a quarter. Tattoos, facial piercings, etc, do not bother me at all. And other managers I know my age don't really care either.

[OrangeSlice]

Unless he's an artist or something, he's pretty screwed. Sorry.

 

Not really. I mean it will be harder, but screwed is a bit too far. I mean really.

[civilservant]

To start with, Im not resident in the US, as i made clear in my original post, therefore Im not contributing to the unemployment statistics you so brazenly lumped me into.

 

Secondly, I work for the UK government, in a highly trained professional job. I have tattoos, those tattoos have NEVER (and I say never because I have never not got a job I have gone for) negatively affected any applications for employment.

 

If you choose to look down on people who have visible tattoos that is of course your prerogative, but Im sure I could also look down on you for some of the life choices you have made. Whatever happened to live and let live? Saying that you aren't mature because you decide to have tattoos is incredibly insulting and short sighted. We don't all conform to what societies idea of normal, and that should embraced, not shouted down and told it's not acceptable.

[civilservant]

Finally someone with a slightly wider view of the world... perhaps it's unsurprising we aren't based in the US?

[Alezia]

I kind of see this issue as something such as a person coming in to an interview with bright red lipstick. Your focus is probably going to be on whatever speaks loudly - big bling, severe makeup, wacko hair etc... Would I entirely dismiss her if she had the right personality and skills, no. Would I want her to switch to a more netural lipstick color? Yes, you can count on it. Would seeing the same red lipstick at a club or soirée bother me? Not at all.

 

The only problem is that you can't change your mind with a tattoo on your face, to suit the social situation.

[Fudgie]

I kind of see this issue as something such as a person coming in to an interview with bright red lipstick. Your focus is probably going to be on whatever speaks loudly - big bling, severe makeup, wacko hair etc... Would I entirely dismiss her if she had the right personality and skills, no. Would I want her to switch to a more netural lipstick color? Yes, you can count on it. Would seeing the same red lipstick at a club or soirée bother me? Not at all.

 

The only problem is that you can't change your mind with a tattoo on your face, to suit the social situation.

 

I agree with this a lot.

 

I personally have no problem with tattoos (except I wouldn't like a BF of mine to have an ugly one, lol) but in America, many people have a stigma against them, like it or not. If you're working in a place where you have to be face-to-face with clients, you have to change your look to make them more comfortable. Employers are going to choose people who are going to do well with the most clients, and that's probably people without visible tattoos (ie on the face or other visible parts).

 

I want to work in the healthcare field and I have no doubt that visible tattoos would negatively impact my ability to get a job there. I'm supposed to look "clean" and appealing to many people to put them at ease while I do procedures.

[annie24]

Finally someone with a slightly wider view of the world... perhaps it's unsurprising we aren't based in the US?

 

of course, we shouldn't care about tattoos, and the most qualified person for the job should get it, regardless of their appearance/nationality/etc....

 

but the reality is that the job situation in the US is so bad right now, that they can disqualify you for any reason they want, and they have 100 equally or even more qualified candidates begging for a job. it's not legal, but people get discriminated against every day, for many factors within and beyond their control. and it's very very hard - impossible to prove discrimination and be able to win a lawsuit.

[Lonewing]

Businesses want people who make good sound decisions, not just now but in the future. Whatever evidence you bring in to the interview with you speaks of your past decisions. ask any adult over the age of 50, and you will get a good feel for what the "poper" decision is. A tattoo on your face is widely known as a POOR decision.

 

The fact that you go and do it anyway speaks volumes as to whether or not you listen to the advice of those above you far more than any other evidence you can bring with you on a resume. And if you "didn't know" before you went and did it, it means you are either uneducated and ignorant, or you make decisions before you educate yourself about their consequences. Finally, if you did it on a whim back in the day being wild and crazy, or becasue you didn't know what you wanted to do or be, then it shows them that you either have poor planning skills, or you have the potential to wind up doing somethign that will embarrass the company - only because that was your prior behavior.

 

Just as there are positive consequences for positive decisions, there are negative consequences for negatvie decisions. Tattoos are evidence - they are positive in some businesses, and in other, a nail in your coffin from step one. Corporate in general does not tolerate such things.

 

And before you think there's going to be a culture shift, keep in mind we almost had a culture shift at the beginning of the Great Depression. Then the bust happened, and while we started practicing more social economics, we also moved back towards more conservative values - for one very good reason: people couldn't afford the roaring culture of the 20s anymore.

 

Further, with businesses more and more able to hire foreign employees or move to foreign locations, even if the Group Think in one country decides that something bad will be good in one country does not mean the economic arm of that country has to follow. In short, no matter how many of you there are, THEY DON'T HAVE TO HIRE YOU!!! And if you can't afford their products, well, the US is only 300 million people and they re the quickest in economic decline; You don't have to buy their products!!!

 

There may be a culture shift for the American people - 3rd World Status!! I don;t know if that is worth being able to freely act without consequence to oneself.

[civilservant]

It;s true enough that the economic powerhouses of the 21 st century will be the like of India, China and Brazil, but thats for another thread on another board.

[annie24]

It;s true enough that the economic powerhouses of the 21 st century will be the like of India, China and Brazil, but thats for another thread on another board.

 

China is less ok with creativity and individuality than the US!

[civilservant]

Agreed, but thats whats going to make it a powerhouse. The citizens on the whole work hard, and dont make too much of a fuss. Along with its lax labour laws (do they have any?) and low wages. Anyway, straying into political territory here.

[Lonewing]

Agreed, but thats whats going to make it a powerhouse. The citizens on the whole work hard, and dont make too much of a fuss. Along with its lax labour laws (do they have any?) and low wages. Anyway, straying into political territory here.

 

I'd think it's sociocultural, but it is a bit political too. This is a reality though: the more indivualistic people are, the less appealing they are for other people such as employers. It makes sense, though - which workers do I want, the ones who complain about every little thing or demand that they have their little cube within my cube, or the ones who are happy to make do with my provisions and keep quiet? And which workers work better together, the ones who say little and remain focused on the job following the commands of a few, or the ones who are each coming up with their own ideas on how to do the job every ten minutes and going off on wild tangents as often as they get distracted?

 

That other side is perhaps unnerving - the less individualistic people are, the greater their collective strength. Reminds of something I once heard, Monuments may be dreamed up by great minds, but it is simple minds that put it all together.

 

This tattoo thing wil rpetty well tell you what kind of employer you are headed towards - there are those industries that are made by self expression, and then there are those industrires that are built upon Followship - the first step to becoming a great leader is becoming a great follower, as some say.

[90_hour_sleep]

i get the impression that this opinion of collective strength is something like a mass of brainless automotons mindlessly engaging in work which they've been brainwashed to joyously perform. sounds a bit brave new worldish. i imagine some will take the ''reality'' stance on this one. that's just how it is...right? personally...i find this line of thought to be a little out-dated. the world has in fact moved on in the past 50 or so years. perhaps what modern employers are really looking for is a balance (a blend) between the individual and the automoton. the best of both worlds. one who shows up...wears his monkey suit admirably...but is also capable of individual thought. some refer to this as creative problem solving. i've yet to meet an employer in my line of work who didn't find that skill of absolute necessity. those who aren't capable of stepping beyond the role of follower don't last more than a couple of days (no exceptions). i find it hard to believe that other professions are really all that different. with so much emphasis on productivity in today's world, the man or woman who stands around waiting to take orders is a thing of the past. employers want someone who can not only do what he is told...but step outside of that box and make things happen without having to be hand-held througout the process. there's a distinction between putting one's individualism on display and reaking havoc on a system, and simply putting it to use for the purposes of making things happen. because realisticially...there is always a better way to do something. as soon as you discourage employees from actively looking for those ways...you're already a step behind in today's world. in that sense...i think individualism is of paramount importance in the current employment world. not that i agree with how things are...i'm not sure i do. productivity for the sake of productivity requires some disquieting concessions on moral grounds.

 

for what it's worth...i don't personally see a correlation between ''individuality'' and lack of productivity. if anything, i think the modern 20-something has (by necessity) become quite skilled at maintaining separation between his personal and professional life. this means that he can live his life off the job in the ways he sees fit (within reason of course)...and still maintain the image (i'm more inclined to say attribute) of professionalism while on the job.

 

a world where our mistakes (even trivial mistakes such as a misplaced tattoo. because let's be realistic...as far as the big picture is concerned...this is beyond trivial) sentence us to a life of mediocrity isn't reality at all. mistakes carry with them consequences...but we're fast coming into a new world where people choose to accept that one mistake does not define a person (let's leave murder out of the equation for now). there is no one way to think that can be deemed correct. i love the reference to "group think"...but one may also recall that the members of that society...the automotons...were not really living. fear. it was conditioning. be this way...or pay the consequences. i can't think of a stance that contradicts humanity more than that one. while the greater good is admirable...there are other ways to achieve it. this idea that success is built on raising oneself above others is morally objectionable to say the least. there are those that continue to peddle this mentality...some even under the guise of altruism. i'm a firm believe that those who are staunchly opposed to a shift in human consciousness will soon be in a minority. this way of living...of being...it's not working anymore. we're approaching critical mass as a species.

 

with 6 billion people on the planet...it's safe to say that there are at least 6 billion distinct ways to look at any situation. to suggest that one stance is ''just how it is'' borders on insanity.

[greywolf]

I have nothing against tattoos, but I do think that affects how people look at you. If you're not meeting with clients, then I don't see it as a problem, but if you do meet with clients, then you're part of the face of the company, and I don't think many employers are willing to risk that.

 

How many people would feel comfortable putting their lives into the hands of a doctor or nurse with a tattoo on their face. Or their kid's life?

[90_hour_sleep]

I have nothing against tattoos, but I do think that affects how people look at you. If you're not meeting with clients, then I don't see it as a problem, but if you do meet with clients, then you're part of the face of the company, and I don't think many employers are willing to risk that.

 

How many people would feel comfortable putting their lives into the hands of a doctor or nurse with a tattoo on their face. Or their kid's life?

 

that's a good question...

 

personally...i think i'd be tempted to consider the fact that this doctor had completed medical school just like any other doctor. i'd also consider the fact that even an apparently straight-laced (physically) doctor may have little or no regard for my well-being. it almost becomes a coin-toss here. really...i've always noticed that regardless of any physical hangups i have with a person...their actual character generally becomes quite evident in short order. maybe it's this particular scenario that doesn't fit for me. i have a close family member who worked for a doctor for years. by all accounts...he was the poster child of what a doctor should look and act like (on the exterior). unfortunately, there wasn't a compassionate bone in his body. on moral grounds...he was lousy at his job. seems there will always be those who slip through the cracks. although...i've yet to encounter the doctor with a tattoo on his face. perhaps they're screening for this in med schools?

 

i think you're right though, greywolf. people are conditioned to discrminate in this fashion...especially when safety is a concern. it's unfortunate...because i think the odds are more in favour of being 'hurt' by someone who you don't feel any initial threat from. it's those whom you feel safest with that are most able to take advantage of that trust.

[annie24]

I don't want my doctor to have one of those 'tear-drop' tattoos.

 

I think we can generally agree that the take on employers with tattoos is neutral at best and negative at worst. No one gets looked over for their lack of tattoos (unless they want to be a tattoo artist). you're better off not getting highly visible tattoos if you want to have the option to advance, but as many people point out, tattoos are becoming more mainstream these days so it's not shocking to meet people with them.

 

I have friends with little wrist tattoos or something girly/whimsical on their forearms, but because of the placement and the cute design, i don't think people look too negatively upon it.

[RelaxByWater84]

Wow!! This discussion reminds of a program on tattoos that I saw on the History Channel. For the most part if you are going to be working with the public or students then you sort of have to have this cookie cutter look. On the program I watched one of the tattoo artist said that he will not do tattoos on 18 year olds. He tells them to think about it and come back when they are 21 and if they still want it then he will do it. He also does not put tattoos on drunk people.