Anyone NOT want to get married and have kids?

[rocio]

I think that all depends on how you raise your children. My grandparents always lived with us when they were unable to live on their own. I think all three of us children have made it clear that my mother will be welcome to live any one of us, that she never has to worry about that later in life. My husband's parents will likely obtain citizenship to come to our country, and they're welcome to live with us. Both my husband and I agree that the aging parents on either side are always going to be free to stay with us.

 

Of course, there are no guarantees in life and I absolutely agree that this shouldn't be the driving factor behind having children. However, it is my dream to live with my children when I'm older and do the childcare, cleaning, cooking, etc. Of course, that's only if my children want it.

[Fudgie]

Yeah, you'll have to see.

 

I know my mother has a fear of being in the home and tried to raise me like I would take care of her when she's older. Forget that. I'm not doing it.

She cared for her mother so I had that experience. My grandma is still alive and around too.

But I'm not following in their footsteps. I'm not going to be like the countless people I've seen in nursing/hospice who are guilt tripped "I made you so take care of me!". Ugh, no thanks. Gonna skip that pathology.

 

Of course, I'm no hypocrite myself. I wouldn't not take care of my parents and then expect some kid to care for me (thank god for infertility). I know where I am ending up and I have accepted this. I would make sure B doesn't end up in a home but I know I will someday.

[Seraphim]

I do not think UMA is talking about children as an insurance policy but to show the joy and love and care that can between a parent and a child. I have had animals and I had children. While I love animals and always care for them properly they will NEVER be a child to me at least. Also too like UMA said you can not cart them with you on holidays and expect to have fun. I have done it many times and it is a HUGE pain.

[Fudgie]

I do not think UMA is talking about children as an insurance policy but to show the joy and love and care that can between a parent and a child. I have had animals and I had children. While I love animals and always care for them properly they will NEVER be a child to me at least. Also too like UMA said you can not cart them with you on holidays and expect to have fun. I have done it many times and it is a HUGE pain.

 

I was replying to her comment about kids being able to "take care of and protect you" someday. Which isn't always true.

Having a kid isn't a guarantee that you will stay out of the nursing home.

 

That's all I was saying.

[rocio]

No, nothing in life is guaranteed. Of course. But also, you can protect your parents without having them live with you. You can be an advocate for them, care for their estate, etc. There is still protection in having children.

[Seraphim]

No, nothing in life is guaranteed. Of course. But also, you can protect your parents without having them live with you. You can be an advocate for them, care for their estate, etc. There is still protection in having children.

 

Yes, my grandfather is 91 years old now and he still lives on his own, but his children come to take him out weekly and call him and spend time with him and have been a comfort to him when he lost his wife of 63 years.

[Batya33]

But it sounds like the OP wouldn't feel comfortable having her children care for her since she sees children as such a restriction - meaning if she feels so strongly about not having that type of responsibility would she really want to impose it on someone else?

[Fudgie]

I don't blame the OP. I wouldn't want to make a life and then have it need to serve me when I'm older. I don't want that for myself and nor do I want it for anyone else.

[Seraphim]

Everyone makes their life to serve them even people who choose to have no kids,people who choose to be single, whatever it is. If your life is not to serve you and make you happy then what is it for?

[OptomisticGirl]

I think Fudgie meant make a life as in make a child to do those things.

[Seraphim]

I do not think parents sit there and think.."hm gee I need a serf for when I grow old so I think I will have some slaves and my life will be secure." That at least never crossed my mind or the mind of any other parent I know. I also do not think most kids think when their parents are old " jjjjjjjjjjjjjjezzzzzzzzzzzzzz I have to look after your stupid behind." I know many that give to their parents willingly lots of support in whatever they need. It is what we have a society for, to help one another.

[sentencedtoagony]

I don't want marriage, but I do want a committed relationship. Marriage seems an irrelevant layer to a relationship. To be mutually committed and in love would suffice for me.

 

I don't want children for many reasons, some listed in previous posts. All my long term relationships tend to end due to this "stubbornness". I tell the women up front but they change their minds about it years down the road.

[OptomisticGirl]

I do not think parents sit there and think.."hm gee I need a serf for when I grow old so I think I will have some slaves and my life will be secure." That at least never crossed my mind or the mind of any other parent I know. I also do not think most kids think when their parents are old " jjjjjjjjjjjjjjezzzzzzzzzzzzzz I have to look after your stupid behind." I know many that give to their parents willingly lots of support in whatever they need. It is what we have a society for, to help one another.

 

I agree BUT for people like Fudgie and I, we work in the nursing homes, we see what happens when kids just shove their parents into a home and leave. There are residents at my work who have never had a visitor.. breaks my heart. I always try to stay a few minutes with them to cheer them up. So while people would never think that as a driving force to have a child, I don't think it's wrong that people who don't want kids look at it that way. It's just another reason why they don't feel children are for them... they don't want to burden their kids with taking care of them one day.

[Seraphim]

I agree BUT for people like Fudgie and I, we work in the nursing homes, we see what happens when kids just shove their parents into a home and leave. There are residents at my work who have never had a visitor.. breaks my heart. I always try to stay a few minutes with them to cheer them up. So while people would never think that as a driving force to have a child, I don't think it's wrong that people who don't want kids look at it that way. It's just another reason why they don't feel children are for them... they don't want to burden their kids with taking care of them one day.

 

I have worked with the elderly too, for 10 years. So it is not something I do not know about.

[Lonewing]

Kids are not insurance policies. The vast majority of people end up in homes. This is coming from someone who works with the elderly. Everyone in the home has kids...EVERYONE.

 

If you're going to have them, do so because you simply want to, not because you'll have someone to care for you later in life, because it's not going to happen.

 

It's a sad fact but I can guarantee most of all of you (including myself) will be in a home someday...kids or not.

 

My ex knew people in her homes who did NOT have children. They had their wealth, and their "freedom," but once they got old that freedom went away and they ended up in the home.

 

The difference between the childless and those with chidren is that those who had children had reasons to look forward to getting up in the morning. Their kids were usually visiting them often, taking them out to dinner, taking them out to do things. Those without children were "stuck" by themselves or with other old people. the annoying part, though, is like you said, almost all of them have children, so making friends with another person means you're privy to those conversations about the kids [who are no 50 or 60!] and the grand kids who are 20 and 30!] and those dramas that are unfolding.

 

I'll put it another way: holidays have far more meaning when there's kids around. There's a reason to celebrate - if for no other reason but to make sure they have happy holiday memories. Do it right and twenty years later, they're bringing all the grandkids home to celebrate at grandma's house.

 

Dogs and cats are fine, but they only live to be about 15 or 25 before they pass on....

[Seraphim]

That is the thing, my grandfather is not in a home and sees his kids on a weekly basis. They come to talk with him and take him out. His kids are all now in their 60's and have their own grandkids and still make time for him. Almost every single one of his friends has now passed away and his wife has as well, 9 years ago. I honestly think had he not had his children and grandchildren and great grandchildren he would have died very soon after his wife. Family is something that keeps you moving,especially if they are younger. Happy elderly people are ones that have their family that support them.

[Lonewing]

That is the thing, my grandfather is not in a home and sees his kids on a weekly basis. They come to talk with him and take him out. His kids are all now in their 60's and have their own grandkids and still make time for him. Almost every single one of his friends has now passed away and his wife has as well, 9 years ago. I honestly think had he not had his children and grandchildren and great grandchildren he would have died very soon after his wife. Family is something that keeps you moving,especially if they are younger. Happy elderly people are ones that have their family that support them.

 

It's also a bit easier to afford a good home or get in a good home if you have children looking out for you. Once in the home, they're still there to come visit.

 

Granted, some kids are snots and will do none of the sort, but then I do believe this is a reflection of the first 30-40 years you spend with your kids. We do not hang out around people we have no desire to be around, and many people have pursued personality traits which make them less desireable to be in company. Hence now why you see so many being "abandoned." There's also much truth in the fact that our current generation is one of the most "don't tie me down with YOUR life" crowd yet - who knows where we'll be in 50 years...

[rocio]

One advantage, though, to never getting married and having children is that you're much less likely to end up disappointed. Spouses can leave you for another, children can abandon you... If you know that you're on your own, then you make other arrangements for when you get older.

 

I know I'd probably have a greater chance of being happy in life if I never married or had children because I know I wouldn't disappoint myself. I can't say the same thing about other people.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages, as well as risks, on both sides. But nobody should ever feel the need to justify their decisions. There's nothing nobel in having children, IMO, given that the world is already overpopulated. It's a purely selfish act. (The unselfish acts come after you've had the child, because once you've made the decision to have a child, you owe it to them and the rest of the world to raise them right.)

[Lonewing]

Here's the bottom line, in my mind at least...

 

It's really really hard to find a good partner with whom you want to spend the rest of your life.

 

Let us suppose you find these people, and they're normal in every single way short of one: they want to have kids. You do not.

 

Thanks to this one component which you have decided to take a hardball line against, you are now going to spearate yourself from the person who would have otherwise been your mate for the next 50 or 75 years. All because you have decided to take a position which is opposite to the natural order of life.

 

I'm not too worried about it myself, because I will be fine, but I will not have much of an ear for these people when I'm older and they're complaining to me about how nobody loves them or how alienated or alone they are in the world, or how they repeat their story again about how they had a WONDERFUL partner many years ago but they let him slip away all because of this one cornerstone component in their life. It's quite Ok - but this is a bed that once sown will not be so easily unsown...

[Sanesoul]

I agree BUT for people like Fudgie and I, we work in the nursing homes, we see what happens when kids just shove their parents into a home and leave. There are residents at my work who have never had a visitor.. breaks my heart. I always try to stay a few minutes with them to cheer them up. So while people would never think that as a driving force to have a child, I don't think it's wrong that people who don't want kids look at it that way. It's just another reason why they don't feel children are for them... they don't want to burden their kids with taking care of them one day.

 

This is why people need to plan for the future. I plan to have enough money when I retire to live in a good facility that will meet my needs and be a happy place. I won't burden my daughter with that. Not enough people do that, and when the time comes, they end up in a crappy nursing home with subpar care. I hope my daughter will visit with me and such, but I do not expect her to take care of me.

[Seraphim]

It's also a bit easier to afford a good home or get in a good home if you have children looking out for you. Once in the home, they're still there to come visit.

 

Granted, some kids are snots and will do none of the sort, but then I do believe this is a reflection of the first 30-40 years you spend with your kids. We do not hang out around people we have no desire to be around, and many people have pursued personality traits which make them less desireable to be in company. Hence now why you see so many being "abandoned." There's also much truth in the fact that our current generation is one of the most "don't tie me down with YOUR life" crowd yet - who knows where we'll be in 50 years...

 

This scares me too. It seems people care very little for society.

[rocio]

Every generation is unique and will face unique challenges. If anything, women were more likely to remained unmarried and childless after the first and second world wars, due to all the male fatalities. I feel a lot of compassion for the many men in China who will never have the opportunity to marry or have children because of the one-child policy which caused many more males than females.

 

Our generation is supposed to live much longer and be healthier longer than previous ones, due to medical advances. Those who choose not to marry or have children will likely make non-romantic lifelong friends and they will look out for each other. I don't buy into the whole "society is doomed because we've had a shift in our mentality".

[Seraphim]

Every generation is unique and will face unique challenges. If anything, women were more likely to remained unmarried and childless after the first and second world wars, due to all the male fatalities. I feel a lot of compassion for the many men in China who will never have the opportunity to marry or have children because of the one-child policy which caused many more males than females.

 

Our generation is supposed to live much longer and be healthier longer than previous ones, due to medical advances. Those who choose not to marry or have children will likely make non-romantic lifelong friends and they will look out for each other. I don't buy into the whole "society is doomed because we've had a shift in our mentality".

 

The problem though with exclusively depending on friends your own age is that they die. Reference my grandfather,almost every single friend he ever had is dead. His brothers and sisters are dead, his wife is dead, and all the people he worked with are dead too. He has a few friends in his appartment building but he has no long history with them and he can take it or leave it as he says. He does have his kids though and the younger members of his family.

[Lonewing]

Every generation is unique and will face unique challenges. If anything, women were more likely to remained unmarried and childless after the first and second world wars, due to all the male fatalities. I feel a lot of compassion for the many men in China who will never have the opportunity to marry or have children because of the one-child policy which caused many more males than females.

 

Our generation is supposed to live much longer and be healthier longer than previous ones, due to medical advances. Those who choose not to marry or have children will likely make non-romantic lifelong friends and they will look out for each other. I don't buy into the whole "society is doomed because we've had a shift in our mentality".

 

Large imbalances of males like this tend to produce far larger problems...things like, oh, say, large armies...Last I heard they have 23 million males more than they have females.

 

All our medical technology will be no good if we are psychologically depressed and living negative lifestyles due to beaing alone. There's a study from europe that basically showed those who are with other people live longer than those who don't, for a variety of reasons. we like to say people can co-exist and cohabitate, but these relaitonships are not solid nor is there nay reaosn to believe they are anything less then a semistate of transition. Those lifelong friends typically end up dying off, and then those connections are lost. Your children are like your lifelong friends, in that you share memories and delights that you know of each other, but there's that added benefit of them being 20 years younger.

 

My family did just bury my younger brother, but I recognize that the size of my family [i have...5 siblings still alive?] was one part of what got us through this change in our life. We have each other to support us, in a way no people outside our family have access to.

 

Shift too far and indeed, we do become doomed. Look at the end of the Roman Empire - the people shifted ever more and more towards a life of irresponsibility, and while that was good for a moment, the local groups with imbalances in food, riches and a lack of females took notice and sacked, raped, pillaged and looted the weaker yet larger society that was the Romans. On the East side at the same time you had the rise of Vlad the Impaler, who's tragic history began when his wife chose to leap to her death rather than be captured and acosted by the Turks. As a result of his mourning for her, he became a very cold hard man who would have one put to slow death [one will live for up to three days with a stick shoved up through the body] for even thinking of looking at him the worng way, whatever the wrong way was on that day. Invasions happen when one group becomes weak and then loses the respect of it's neighbors...

 

I believe in the principles we've brought to the crown, but I don't want to see the generaiton of my children and grandchildren being the fall of their world - of for no other reason than the fact of how poorly people are treated in the hands of invaders. make no mistake, regardless of our superior technology and high tech communicaiotn we are stillt eh same human being and there are still groups out there with little or no respect for people unlikethemselves. Just south of me there's a city which reported more civillian deaths this last year than afghanistan reported. This is what happens when The People become weak and divided: they are easily manipulated by small forces with a determined goal.

 

Anyhow... I'm exiting this one for the day...

[Alezia]

That's interesting. Apparently my grandma told my mom that she would never babysit us. Total 360 perspective huh?