Anyone NOT want to get married and have kids?

[Seraphim]

"Originally Posted by under_my_amberella

I think that all depends on how you raise your children. My grandparents always lived with us when they were unable to live on their own. I think all three of us children have made it clear that my mother will be welcome to live any one of us, that she never has to worry about that later in life. My husband's parents will likely obtain citizenship to come to our country, and they're welcome to live with us. Both my husband and I agree that the aging parents on either side are always going to be free to stay with us.

 

Of course, there are no guarantees in life and I absolutely agree that this shouldn't be the driving factor behind having children. However, it is my dream to live with my children when I'm older and do the childcare, cleaning, cooking, etc. Of course, that's only if my children want it."

 

See people used to do this all the time and family was very important. In the last 100 years we have got away from that and I feel it is to the detriment of society. I would always take my mother. I would even help my father although not have him live with me because he is abusive and nasty. My mother does not expect anyone to care for her but hopes that her children would want to be a part of caring for her.

 

I do not expect my son to care for me, but I do not expect him to throw me to the wind either. After all I cared for him when he was most vulnerable. I think if family is of value to you that will be reflected in your children.

[Fudgie]

Well, I hope your kids decide to help take care of you, since that seems that's what you want.

 

Nothing wrong with that but I'm just saying, nothing is guaranteed. You can raise your kids however you want but the truth is, there are other influences at work and yeah, you may not get what you want with them.

 

As for I, I plan to save up for retirement ASAP when I get into my career so I won't need to rely on anyone else.

[Seraphim]

I am not saying that Fudgie. I have my own retirement programme. I do not intend that my son care for me body and soul believe me, and I think you are making that assumption. Helping to care for your aging parents and paying for their life are 2 different things.

 

However the "things at work" or whatever you want to call them or think they are I do not feel will be of more value to my son than family. My son is already very dedicated to family and the values of family.

 

I go on making my plans for looking after my life but I do not live the assumption that everyone at some time is going to shaft me. Must be a crappy way to live to go around thinking everyone will shaft you and you make plans based on that.

[Fudgie]

I'm just skeptical. When parents raise their kids with "family values" and teach them to take care for you, they always have it in the back of their minds "my kid will take care of me". I'm just saying...MAYBE it will work, MAYBE it won't. I hope you're prepared for either option, because both are viable.

 

My parents tried to raise me with those "family values"...hoping I'd be the one to step in and take care of my mom AND my autistic siblings. But it's not happening. Those 2 are getting trust funds and I'll keep tabs on them but there is no way I'm taking care of them. I need to live my own life and I know that if I stuck around in that house, I would never get to grow as a person.

 

So yeah, there you go. Raised with "family values"...rejected. Raised a Christian...rejected that too. Raised to want to give grandkids....well, that failed too.

 

And I'm definitely not the rebellious type. I'm a very good daughter, do well in school, do all the chores they want me to, come home when they want me to, etc. This is just the way that things turned out.

 

Who said anything about shafting? I never did. Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that I'm going to save up so that way I can be independent and will not have to rely on anyone. But apparently by doing so, I'm "believing that someone is going to shaft me"? Riiiight.

 

I live life to learn and enjoy it. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

And yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm betting my money that 95% of us will end up in a home. Including me. I'm not scared, are you? I don't see that as being "shafted". I see that as living in American culture and this is what happens when you get old. But I'm getting myself ready.

[Seraphim]

NO I am not afraid. Sorry to disappoint you. However, I do know my son better than you do.

[Fudgie]

Okay, good to hear. I hope he grows into what you want him to be.

[OptomisticGirl]

Okay, good to hear. I hope he grows into what you want him to be.

 

I have to agree, you can riase your kids however, how they turn out is their choice. Look at hte parents who raised killers. None of them raised their kids to be killers.. most of them were raised with family values. My mom raised me in a structured, religious household. Def. far from that now....

[Seraphim]

Most killers are raised by parents who are violent and have grown to think violence is the norm, so ,yes they in fact did raise their kids to be killers.I do not know about many killers who were raised by stellar parents. Those who had good parents were messed in the head if they became killers. So you can not use that example.

 

I think however even though you all think people turn out to be the anti thesis of their parents not all people do. Many people find nothing wrong with the values their parents embued and do carry them on.

[OptomisticGirl]

Actually most killers are raised my steller parents, which is why it's such a shock when they turn into killers. It can be used as an example because despite their parents raising them the right way, they still turned out wrong - even if there were underlying problems.

 

Of course not all people do - but to say you can control how your kids act later in life is naive IMO. My mom raised me with the intention I'd never move 4,000 miles away and be buried in the ground and religious like her... sadly, I dissapointed her.

[Seraphim]

No not most killers are raised by stellar parents I do not know where you get that info.

[OptomisticGirl]

The good amount of crime shows I watch actually. The point is, you can't control how your kids turn out. It's great if your son decides to take care of you but just because someone is raised like that doesn't mean it's how they are going to turn out. Not saying yours won't but it doesn't go very everyone.

[Seraphim]

I never said look after me. I said take part in helping aching parents and yes I believe we do affect how our children work out.

 

Are you telling me Charlie Manson had a Christian churching going mama who spent tons of time doting on her son? Or how about Richard Ramirez? Aileen Wuornos? These people had beautiful loving childhoods?

[OptomisticGirl]

I didn't say ALL killers had picture perfect childhoods. Some do though - like Susan Smith, the woman who strapped her 3 year old and 14 month old in the back of a car and let it roll into a lake. She had loving parents. A hard life, but she wasn't raised my physo paths. But one day she uped and killed her children. I'm sure her mother didn't raise her to do that.

[Seraphim]

I didn't say ALL killers had picture perfect childhoods. Some do though - like Susan Smith, the woman who strapped her 3 year old and 14 month old in the back of a car and let it roll into a lake. She had loving parents. A hard life, but she wasn't raised my physo paths. But one day she uped and killed her children. I'm sure her mother didn't raise her to do that.

She had a father or step father I can not remember which who had sexually abused her if I remember right.

[OptomisticGirl]

She had a father or step father I can not remember which who had sexually abused her if I remember right.

 

Stepfather. Still, I was sexually abused as a child, you don't see me out there strapping babies into cars. It's no excuess. If she had been raised in violence and that life isn't precious I could understand it. Molestation? And this is coming from a sexual survivior myself - it ain't no excuess.

[Seraphim]

Stepfather. Still, I was sexually abused as a child, you don't see me out there strapping babies into cars. It's no excuess. If she had been raised in violence and that life isn't precious I could understand it. Molestation? And this is coming from a sexual survivior myself - it ain't no excuess.

 

I am not saying it is an excuse. I am refuting your claim that killers have good parents.

[OptomisticGirl]

I am not saying it is an excuse. I am refuting your claim that killers have good parents.

 

But her mother was good. They RAISED her good. And she still turned out opposite of what they wanted. Look at all the women who snap one day and kill their husbands... a good amount of them didn't have violent parents.

[Seraphim]

I am a sexual abuse survivor too, I am not murder either. However I refuse to believe your claim that these people have awesome parents. Sorry it makes no sense.

[OptomisticGirl]

I am a sexual abuse survivor too, I am not murder either. However I refuse to believe your claim that these people have awesome parents. Sorry it makes no sense.

 

I can only suggust you do some research then. I did for a college paper I wrote a few years ago.. you would be surprised at the amount of killers whose parents were loving and caring. Sure, those killers might have had a mental problem but they were still raised to do the right thing.

[Fudgie]

Jeffrey Dahmer had a pretty nice childhood...

I also know of 2 families close to my own who were VERY well off and the parents were stellar with the kids. Guess what happened? One kid is in jail now on some criminal charges for child molestation (piece of SCUM tried to hit on me when I was 15...plus I got romance letters from him in jail. That was lovely. What a piece of trash). The other was found to be killing animals and is sociopathic. Spent some time in the psych ward but he's out now.

 

Just goes to show that you never know. Of course, I'm totally fine with all of this and I think in order to be a parent, you have to be. In some ways, you're trying your best, in other ways, all you can do is throw lots. I've just chosen not to be a part of that game but you have and that's ok. Just know that many things don't come out as planned.

 

I'm sure my mother didn't see it coming when her 3 children would be born...2 with autism and other mental problems and then there is me who is just a bundle of complicated. Nope, definitely not the typical family that's for sure.

 

And I agree with you OG, it's no excuse.

[Seraphim]

I do know a lot about many serial killers and other types of killers and it is not what I have found. And if what you say is true then nurture makes no difference whatsoever and there is no point in teaching a child anything because they will just do any ole thing they want and pay no heed to you . But as a mother I know different.

[Fudgie]

I can only suggust you do some research then. I did for a college paper I wrote a few years ago.. you would be surprised at the amount of killers whose parents were loving and caring. Sure, those killers might have had a mental problem but they were still raised to do the right thing.

 

Yep, this is because everything is a balance of NATURE and NURTURE.

 

Being a great parent doesn't guarantee anything, just as having great genes doesn't either.

[Fudgie]

I do know a lot about many serial killers and other types of killers and it is not what I have found. And if what you say is true then nurture makes no difference whatsoever and there is no point in teaching a child anything because they will just do any ole thing they want and pay no heed to you . But as a mother I know different.

 

Well, I have taken some of what my parents have said, but not all.

I agree with some of what they have taught me, but not others. I have just gotten older and decided for myself on some things.

 

It's just a balance between nature and nurture, as I said. Kids won't take 100% of what a parent says/teaches to them but it's unlikely that they will COMPLETELY 100% rebel too.

[Seraphim]

I have a sociopath for an uncle and he was raised by jerk parents, so what is your point really? Yes, people can be born messed up,however there is A LOT to suggest nurture or lack of it plays an enormous role.

[OptomisticGirl]

That's because it's not just about nuture, as Fudgie said it's a balance. The outside world has an affect on your child - which is why you can tell your child to wait for marriage for sex all you want, but peer pressure will touch them. No way to stop it. All you can do is hope you raied them to be smart enough to a) wait or b) use protection.