Anyone NOT want to get married and have kids?

[Sanesoul]

Seeing marriage and children as baggage only happens with negative experience. If someone told me to my face that I have baggage because I have a husband and a child, I'd never speak to them again.

 

I love my life and that includes my husband and child. I wouldn't enjoy life nearly as much without them.

[Batya33]

Yes but that's implying she made the decision from that. We don't know what caused her to make the decision she did - only that that is how she views marriage/kids. You see it as a negative way to look at it because you don't see them as negative... another person who doesn't want that either wouldn't see that as negative.

 

Never said I knew - and only suggested as my opinion that if she is making the decision from a negative viewpoint- which in my opnion she is - that is not the healthiest and she might regret it later. I'm not sure why you turned this into a discussion of rights and facts when all I did was give my opinion which the OP asked for. She has the right to how she feels of course and the right to her decision of course and I have the right to my opinion about the basis of decisions made to marry when that opinion is asked for. It's not because I don't see husband/kids as baggage -it's because someone who does in my opinion - as a general matter -might not be making the decision from a positive perspective. In my opinion it's healthier to make that decision from a positive perspective. Opinion -that's the operative word -not stating anything about rights or facts. Obviously if in your opinion this should be a discussion about rights and facts that's fine but it will have nothing to do with what I wrote.

[OptomisticGirl]

Seeing marriage and children as baggage only happens with negative experience. If someone told me to my face that I have baggage because I have a husband and a child, I'd never speak to them again.

 

I love my life and that includes my husband and child. I wouldn't enjoy life nearly as much without them.

 

I would never view my fiance or our future kids as baggage either and would be offended if someone referred to MINE as baggage but I have never met someone who has the view point of not wanting marriage/kids who was like that - I'm sure they exist, no doubt. But I think for the most part anyone who doesn't want kids wouldn't ever tell a couple that do that, most of them will give respect to child couples that they want for being child free.

 

Never said I knew - and only suggested as my opinion that if she is making the decision from a negative viewpoint- which in my opnion she is - that is not the healthiest and she might regret it later. I'm not sure why you turned this into a discussion of rights and facts when all I did was give my opinion which the OP asked for. She has the right to how she feels of course and the right to her decision of course and I have the right to my opinion about the basis of decisions made to marry when that opinion is asked for. It's not because I don't see husband/kids as baggage -it's because someone who does in my opinion - as a general matter -might not be making the decision from a positive perspective. In my opinion it's healthier to make that decision from a positive perspective. Opinion -that's the operative word -not stating anything about rights or facts. Obviously if in your opinion this should be a discussion about rights and facts that's fine but it will have nothing to do with what I wrote.

 

It has nothing to do with rights and facts. Just pointing out what you see as a negative aspect - which if you admit it or not is BECAUSE of your view on marriage/kids. It's how we all work. How you feel about something dictates what you view as negative and positive - isn't a negative aspect necessarily for the OP or other people of that mind.

[rocio]

One of the coolest people I've ever met was my great aunt who lived in Europe. The last time I visited her she was 90 years old and she spent her days eating and drinking coffee and red wine, listening to music (including techno music) and following soccer (she knew all the players on the national team). We talked about what happens when you die (neither of us had any idea) and I felt I could tell her anything. When I was with her, I forgot we weren't the same age.

 

I wondered whether she was able to stay young and relevant because she never married or had children.

[alli]

I kind of do see kids as baggage. I mean, being a parent ties down your finances, your free time, your flexibility in making choices for yourself. Anything that does that sounds like baggage to me. Baggage can be roughly equated to obligations. Doesn't mean baggage is necessarily a good or a bad thing, it just is what it is. The cost/benefit ratio is different for everyone. For some people, the obligations are nothing in comparison to the joy they get from raising a family and they never have any regrets. The other extreme is people who see very little benefit to the resulting obligations of having kids. For me personally, I don't really feel like there would be a void in my life without kids. I could totally live without having one. Therefore, the cost of having children is high and the benefit is low.

[Batya33]

What you say is interesting and I don't disagree other than it has nothing to do with the opinion I gave - it's your particular interpretation of it and I respect that but in my view it is a misinterpretation. I explained what I meant above more than once so no need to repeat it here.

[Batya33]

I kind of do see kids as baggage. I mean, being a parent ties down your finances, your free time, your flexibility in making choices for yourself. Anything that does that sounds like baggage to me. Baggage can be roughly equated to obligations. Doesn't mean baggage is necessarily a good or a bad thing, it just is what it is. The cost/benefit ratio is different for everyone. For some people, the obligations are nothing in comparison to the joy they get from raising a family and they never have any regrets. The other extreme is people who see very little benefit to the resulting obligations of having kids. For me personally, I don't really feel like there would be a void in my life without kids. I could totally live without having one. Therefore, the cost of having children is high and the benefit is low.

 

To me the term has a negative connotation and I'm not comfortable referring to the care and responsibility towards human beings as baggage or the human beings as baggage. Totally agre with the cost-benefit ratio and that the more you can do that before having a child (or getting married) the better the decision.

[Lonewing]

The only negative consequnce for a woman is that if she chooses to make this decision, it's irreversible after around mid-life. That's 40 years you get to live with the decision should you choose to regret it. Starting around 50, all your friends who used to cackle and coo about their kids will be cackling and cooing about their grand kids. Around 70 they'll be cackling and cooing about their great grandchildren who come by and visit them often at the old folks home - or raving about how they don't have to be in an home because they have family to take them in.

 

Males can undo this decision all the way up to the point they die. The only negative consequence for a male is that if they wait until later, they will not be available as a role model for the grand children. Everybody screws up at parenting in one way or another, but we kind of get a second chance this way.

 

I personally believe the stronger this sentiment in a society is [the more self-centered we become] the closer our society is to becoming an entry in the archaeology museums.

[OptomisticGirl]

To me the term has a negative connotation and I'm not comfortable referring to the care and responsibility towards human beings as baggage or the human beings as baggage. Totally agre with the cost-benefit ratio and that the more you can do that before having a child (or getting married) the better the decision.

 

And this is the key reason why those of us who want kids have kids and those that don't don't. We don't use that term but they do. What's worse - a person who doesn't want kids referring to them as baggage and not having them or someone who sees them as baggage and still having kids for 'society's sake?'

[Lonewing]

I kind of do see kids as baggage. I mean, being a parent ties down your finances, your free time, your flexibility in making choices for yourself. Anything that does that sounds like baggage to me. Baggage can be roughly equated to obligations. Doesn't mean baggage is necessarily a good or a bad thing, it just is what it is. The cost/benefit ratio is different for everyone. For some people, the obligations are nothing in comparison to the joy they get from raising a family and they never have any regrets. The other extreme is people who see very little benefit to the resulting obligations of having kids. For me personally, I don't really feel like there would be a void in my life without kids. I could totally live without having one. Therefore, the cost of having children is high and the benefit is low.

 

The way I see it, people sacrificed years out of their personal lives to give me my life, so the greatest thing I can do for mother, love and country is to make a similar sacrifice in my own life. Should I mention the mutual benefits much less the personal growth these people experienced as a result of making these sacrifices?

[OptomisticGirl]

The way I see it, people sacrificed years out of their personal lives to give me my life, so the greatest thing I can do for mother, love and country is to make a similar sacrifice in my own life. Should I mention the mutual benefits much less the personal growth these people experienced as a result of making these sacrifices?

 

Yes but what if you DON'T want to make that sacrifice? By that definition I should go and join the Army because of the thousands who sacrificed their lives to give me my freedom- but I'm human enough to admit that isn't a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

[Batya33]

And this is the key reason why those of us who want kids have kids and those that don't don't. We don't use that term but they do. What's worse - a person who doesn't want kids referring to them as baggage and not having them or someone who sees them as baggage and still having kids for 'society's sake?'

 

Actually no - I don't think everyone who doesn't want their own children view children as baggage- not by a long shot. There are many people who love children but don't want any of their own and wouldn't view them as baggage or with any negative connotation -just not a good fit for them. For example, even if I could have more children safely I wouldn't want more than one -not because I see more than one as baggage or anything negative in general just because I know it wouldn't be right for me or my family for several reasons. I don't think my views are atypical.

 

I don't think anyone should have or adopt a child based on societal pressure. I have no issue with someone viewing children as "baggage" - that's their perogative. If someone asks me what I think of their view as children as baggage I would share my view.

[Batya33]

The way I see it, people sacrificed years out of their personal lives to give me my life, so the greatest thing I can do for mother, love and country is to make a similar sacrifice in my own life. Should I mention the mutual benefits much less the personal growth these people experienced as a result of making these sacrifices?

 

I think there are so many ways to make a contribution to the world -caring for children (whether you have them, adopt them or work with them in some way) is one of many ways to contribute and to feel that you have sacrificed for the benefit of someone else or someones. I also respect the view that there's no need to make such sacrifices-that kind of variety keeps the world and things interesting.

[Lonewing]

Yes but what if you DON'T want to make that sacrifice? By that definition I should go and join the Army because of the thousands who sacrificed their lives to give me my freedom- but I'm human enough to admit that isn't a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

 

The country you believe in, the freedom you enjoy, the society around you, the structure that allows everything you enjoy, has all been made possible by these past sacrifices. No, you don't have to do anything. None of us do. However, I would be remiss to remind the avid reader about what happened to the Shaker colony, who were so devote to their following that they did not have children. As a result, that community entirely died out and their culture only continues because it has been preserved through folklore and museum preservation. Once you remove the folk, though, you lose the lore.

 

We live in interesting times...

[OptomisticGirl]

The country you believe in, the freedom you enjoy, the society around you, the structure that allows everything you enjoy, has all been made possible by these past sacrifices. No, you don't have to do anything. None of us do. However, I would be remiss to remind the avid reader about what happened to the Shaker colony, who were so devote to their following that they did not have children. As a result, that community entirely died out and their culture only continues because it has been preserved through folklore and museum preservation. Once you remove the folk, though, you lose the lore.

 

We live in interesting times...

 

I agree - and I hold those past sarcrafices close to my heart and will support those before and after who have and will make those sacrifcies. You always have to continue the human race - no lie - but look at the amount of people on our planet. There will never be a shortage of people who want to have children - even people who don't want kids or aren't 'fit' to have kids or having them!

[alli]

To me the term has a negative connotation and I'm not comfortable referring to the care and responsibility towards human beings as baggage or the human beings as baggage. Totally agre with the cost-benefit ratio and that the more you can do that before having a child (or getting married) the better the decision.

 

If you want them & are more fulfilled because you had them, then they aren't baggage. I wouldn't be happy having kids (at least any time soon, maybe ever) so it would be a negative event for someone who doesn't want children and is not prepared to have them. Not a good thing for the parent or the child to be in that situation.

 

The way I see it, people sacrificed years out of their personal lives to give me my life, so the greatest thing I can do for mother, love and country is to make a similar sacrifice in my own life. Should I mention the mutual benefits much less the personal growth these people experienced as a result of making these sacrifices?

 

Having children is right for a lot of people. Most people it seems actually. It's just not right for everyone. Some people give back & grow as a person because they had kids. Other people find other ways to accomplish the same. It wouldn't be generous of me to have a child not because I wanted them but because other people told me it was the "right" and normal thing to do. We all find our own ways to give back to the world. There are plenty of other people willing to repopulate the planet that my and a few others' individual contributions are not necessary. Just as it is not necessary for every American to serve in a combat zone where I happen to live at the moment, but we don't make everyone do something that only some must do.

 

Definitely nothing wrong with wanting kids. I just don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting them either.

 

Anyway, not really here to argue. Everyone is 100% entitled to their opinions, and of course I'm happy for anyone who chooses the right thing for them, kids or no kids. And I'm checking out of this thread now.

[Sparkly Eyes]

It's all playing with words here. If you decide not to have children, even if you have a "positive perspective", you must be seeing children as an added baggage to your life, whether financially, mentally or in other ways.

[Batya33]

Yes- I agree Sparkly Eyes -perhaps I didn't make my point clearly - it depends what the negative reason is - a single woman saying she is happier single "because all men are losers" is probably somewhat in denial and/or reacting from bad experiences and generalizing way too much to be able to make a healthy decision. A single woman who says "marriage is probably great for others- for me a husband would feel like baggage" is evaluating the effect of marriage on her lifestyle. The OP however seemed to be generalizing that husband and kids are presumptively baggage and presumptively restrict freedom in a bad way. That suggests to me that she is making some negative generalizations from an unhealthy place rather than from a more balanced perspective.

[OptomisticGirl]

Well lets be fair - marriages and children DO restrict your lifestyle from the way it was. The only difference is for some of us we welcome that restriction.

[Fudgie]

The whole "prolonging our species" argument is a little silly if you look at the number of people on the planet.

 

Also, some people don't feel the need to procreate for the "good of the species". If I were the last woman on earth, i'd still have no children. I just don't care much about our species surviving longterm. Maybe I'm "weird" or something but that's just me. It's not what I live for. I'm contributing to the world in my own way.

 

When people say they think children are baggage, they mean FOR THEM. Do I think children are baggage? Absolutely for me. For others like OG? Of course not. Cause they desire and want children!

 

People seem to really get angry when someone else doesn't want kids and thinks of kids poorly. I don't entirely get it. Just because someone doesn't like your choice doesn't mean that your choice is any less "valid".

[Fudgie]

Well lets be fair - marriages and children DO restrict your lifestyle from the way it was. The only difference is for some of us we welcome that restriction.

 

Yes I agree with this a lot. Marriage and children do change many things but if you're up for it, you're up for it!

[Batya33]

I do feel offended when people make stereotypical generalizations about marriage and kids or when they give unsolicited negative input on my choices. Stating that you would view children as baggage in your life to me shows a great deal of self-awareness, insight and that you are giving a lot of thought to the decision rather than just following the traditional "marriage/kids" route.

[Sparkly Eyes]

I just read the original post again. She referred to husband and kids as baggage but didn't get into details what exactly she meant by it, so I don't see the negativity you talk about.

[Batya33]

"without the baggage of husband or kids"

 

To me that reads like a generalized statement -not just specific to her view -and if it is (maybe she will explain) then I think it is unhealthy to make that decision on a generalized presumption that husband and kids are baggage. If to her specific lifestyle they would be baggage that's different. I find that those types of generalized presumptions lead to unhealthy decisions. Hopefully the OP will explain.

[OptomisticGirl]

I do feel offended when people make stereotypical generalizations about marriage and kids or when they give unsolicited negative input on my choices. Stating that you would view children as baggage in your life to me shows a great deal of self-awareness, insight and that you are giving a lot of thought to the decision rather than just following the traditional "marriage/kids" route.

 

Yes but that's there right to view it as that - even if we don't agree with it.