Boyfriend Groped Me While Sleeping

[misssmithviii]

Ok but CAD, you think she has NO responsibility in this at all? I agree he was disrespectful on many levels. I do not think she was raped though.

 

Ok, I was raped in my sleep before. I know because when I DID become even the slightest bit conscious I threw a godd*mn fit, gathered my things and bounced. I woke up with him over me, trying to have intercourse when I had previously thought he was a friend - HENCE I have never slept in the presence of ANYBODY unless I trust them wholeheartedly. Obviously, that disgusting man could not be trusted; might I add that we weren't engaged by the way.

 

I was 16 when that happened, and I had the sense to kick the b*st*rd off of me. Raped in your sleep is one thing, your fiancé touching you without your consent is another thing - but laying there with your eyes closed playing this sick "testing" game with him is an entirely other thing.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Ok but CAD, you think she has NO responsibility in this at all? I agree he was disrespectful on many levels. I do not think she was raped though.

 

Yes, I do think she has responsibility in this...she has been in a relationship with a guy she has not seemed to really like or respect from day1, and this guy doesn't seem to respect her either. I agree that the boundaries are blurred and confusing. If they are showering together and touching each other while showering, and sleeping in the same bed together then it seems rather hypocritical to invoke the "I am following the Christian teachings of no sex before marriage"...because the Christian teachings are not just about sexual intercourse, they are about the idea of modesty and purity with regards to any kind of sexual act. Sleeping together is like a husband and wife couple and I am sure the Christian teachings did not support two unmarried people sleeping in the same bed. So yes, I do see flaws in the way they both behaved. The points of my other posts were really about the whole notion of groping someone when they are sleeping..because that notion I find ethically wrong, regardless of whatever else the OP and this guy are doing.

 

No, she was not raped (I believe rape is when there is actual vaginal penetration)..but her rights to self-determination were violated.

[Seraphim]

Ok, I was raped in my sleep before. I know because when I DID become even the slightest bit conscious I threw a godd*mn fit, gathered my things and bounced. I woke up with him over me, trying to have intercourse when I had previously thought he was a friend - HENCE I have never slept in the presence of ANYBODY unless I trust them wholeheartedly. Obviously, that disgusting man could not be trusted; might I add that we weren't engaged by the way.

 

I was 16 when that happened, and I had the sense to kick the b*st*rd off of me. Raped in your sleep is one thing, your fiancé touching you without your consent is another thing - but laying there with your eyes closed playing this sick "testing" game with him is an entirely other thing.

 

I am sorry that happened to you It happened to me too. I was 13.

[FathomFear]

The point I think people are missing is that how the OP did or did not react is irrelevant.

 

It doesn't matter if she remained silent, yelled, liked it, disliked it, or any imaginable response you can think up. That doesn't take away from the fact that this guy used her body for sexual acts when he did not have consent to do so. That's rape.

[DN]

Part of the problem may be that the OP was pretending to sleep when she actually wasn't asleep. I think that is an ethical issue as well - especially if it is done twice.

[Seraphim]

Then if she wants to pursue that good luck and I DO hope she gets couselling if she feels she was. I can tell you though making that situation stick in a court probably wont wash. She did not say no and she did not stop him and I am afraid THAT will be a sticking point. I can tell you all it is NOT easy to stand in a court room and claim rape I have done it.

[greywolf]

The point I think people are missing is that how the OP did or did not react is irrelevant.

 

It doesn't matter if she remained silent, yelled, liked it, disliked it, or any imaginable response you can think up. That doesn't take away from the fact that this guy used her body for sexual acts when he did not have consent to do so. That's rape.

 

Perhaps sexual assault, but not rape. The definition of rape involves penetration, whether a penis, finger, or object.

[FathomFear]

Perhaps sexual assault, but not rape. The definition of rape involves penetration, whether a penis, finger, or object.

 

Didn't the OP say he masturbated her?

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

To call this rape is absurd. Boundary crossing? Yes. There is clearly poor communication in the relationship.

The OP has a long history of issues with this bf and her emotions, I think regardless of the incident she should seek therapy and finally end this relationship.

[Seraphim]

Part of the problem may be that the OP was pretending to sleep when she actually wasn't asleep. I think that is an ethical issue as well - especially if it is done twice.

 

Yes, that is an issue, that she laid there and did nothing and said nothing. It IS her responsibility to speak up. If she was being threatened or feared for her life this is something else. Sometimes I did nothing while being raped because I was told I was going to be killed or my brother would be killed or I was being beaten and the person outweighed me by more than 100 pounds and was like 30 years old. Unless she was being threatened it was WELL within her power to scream, shove him away,yell, etc.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Yes, that is an issue, that she laid there and did nothing and said nothing. It IS her responsibility to speak up. If she was being threatened or feared for her life this is something else. Sometimes I did nothing while being raped because I was told I was going to be killed or my brother would be killed or I was being beaten and the person outweighed me by more than 100 pounds and was like 30 years old. Unless she was being threatened it was WELL within her power to scream, shove him away,yell, etc.

 

If this has happened before and she sleeps in the same bed as him and confronts him the morning after, I really doubt she feels threatened by him.

[greywolf]

Didn't the OP say he masturbated her?

 

Did she? I got the impression that he masturbated next to her, but I could be wrong.

[FathomFear]

Yes, that is an issue, that she laid there and did nothing and said nothing. It IS her responsibility to speak up. If she was being threatened or feared for her life this is something else. Sometimes I did nothing while being raped because I was told I was going to be killed or my brother would be killed or I was being beaten and the person outweighed me by more than 100 pounds and was like 30 years old. Unless she was being threatened it was WELL within her power to scream, shove him away,yell, etc.

 

To be blunt--if some guy were to appear out of nowhere while you were in bed awake, quickly penetrate you, and then you respond with "STOP IMMEDIATELY!"--that still does not take away from the fact that you were raped.

 

Yes, we all can shout and tell people to stop doing bad things. But that doesn't mean that anyone had any right to put us in that position in the first place.

[Seraphim]

To be blunt--if some guy were to appear out of nowhere while you were in bed awake, quickly penetrate you, and then you respond with "STOP IMMEDIATELY!"--that still does not take away from the fact that you were raped.

 

Yes, we all can shout and tell people to stop doing bad things. But that doesn't mean that anyone had any right to put us in that position in the first place.

 

I hardly think this fellow is a rapist and that is my stand,he was a horny guy and they are tooling with silly games. He was disrespectful, yes. Rapist no.Rape is about power not getting off. He wanted to get off. That is all. I think they should stop silly games. He was no stranger to her, he is a bf and with that comes intimacy. If she does not want any, sleep in yer own danged bed. If my husband touched me in the night when I did not give him express permission I would not be saying "Hey you raped me you sick pervert" If I did not want sex I would say no thanks.

[FathomFear]

To call this rape is absurd.

 

I don't think it's absurd at all. If anything else, I think everyone who doesn't see this as rape is falling prey to the tendency of seeing boyfriends/husbands as having more "priviledges". The OP made it clear that she did not want to engage in sexual acts, yet she woke up on two different occasions to find her being used that way. It doesn't matter if it were a husband, boyfriend, a guy she started dating the day before, or a complete stranger. The act is the same.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I don't think it's absurd at all. If anything else, I think everyone who doesn't see this as rape is falling prey to the tendency of seeing boyfriends/husbands as having more "priviledges". The OP made it clear that she did not want to engage in sexual acts, yet she woke up on two different occasions to find her being used that way. It doesn't matter if it were a husband, boyfriend, a guy she started dating the day before, or a complete stranger. The act is the same.

 

That's offensive to people who have been raped.

 

She sleeps in the same bed with her. She was awake. She didn't say no because she wanted to test him and see how far he'd go.

 

I think Womanwriter needs to break up with her boyfriend/fiance.They dislike each other anyway and every thread she writes about him paints him horribly. I think she just enjoys dramatic relationships.

[Seraphim]

I am saying AGAIN, rape is about POWER and CONTROL, you really think he was out do control her and hold her under his power? You know what rapists finish the act and they do not stop when you protest or push away and nor do they feel bad.

[FathomFear]

That's offensive to people who have been raped.

 

No, I'm saying that "rape" has a broader defintion than "violent rape", and it's perfectly acceptable to point that out.

 

Again, I have no idea if the OP is leaving out details. But if what she described was an accurate account of events, then I have full confidence it could and would be considered rape in a court of law. At least in most Western jurisdictions.

[Seraphim]

Under this classification they better charge a lot of husbands then for making a pass at their wife in bed.

[Cognitive_Canine]

No, I'm saying that "rape" has a broader defintion than "violent rape", and it's perfectly acceptable to point that out.

 

Again, I have no idea if the OP is leaving out details. But if what she described was an accurate account of events, then I have full confidence it could and would be considered rape in a court of law. At least in most Western jurisdictions.

 

You can also prove that the person who's house you just broke into you owes you money because their guard dog bit you.

 

I think WW is blowing this way out of proportion, making it way worse than it is by not stopping it when it started, and staying with this guy. Her and her guy have major problems. How easily she could have said 'not in the mood. Don't' and just rolled right over.

 

Frankly, I think they both want to have sex but the won't because of their religion. By just playing the victim, she gets the sexual satisfaction without actively participating.

[DN]

In Canada, at least, there is no such crime as 'rape' because that meant that penetrative sex had to take place. Instead the law was changed to 'sexual assault' so that would cover all types of unwanted sexual contact. I don't know what the law is where WomanWriter lives.

 

But regardless of what the law is there - if WW were to press charges then a jury would have make a finding and it may be that the circumstances as described would not necessarily convince a jury that a crime was committed.

 

It seems to me that what is the main point at issue here is that this relationship clearly isn't working and never has.

[greywolf]

I don't think it's absurd at all. If anything else, I think everyone who doesn't see this as rape is falling prey to the tendency of seeing boyfriends/husbands as having more "priviledges". The OP made it clear that she did not want to engage in sexual acts, yet she woke up on two different occasions to find her being used that way. It doesn't matter if it were a husband, boyfriend, a guy she started dating the day before, or a complete stranger. The act is the same.

 

I think it's quite the opposite. If a woman did this to a man, I bet many would not even bat an eye.

[FathomFear]

Frankly, I think they both want to have sex but the won't because of their religion. By just playing the victim, she gets the sexual satisfaction without actively participating.

 

Oh, I agree. If I were a betting person that is where my money would be going. My comments were more coming from the principle of the matter. This topic is one of my pet peeves as I think there's still a cultural attitude of taking these kinds of acts less seriously if they happen between people who know each other. Heck, still about half of the states in the U.S. still have not absolished "martial exemptions" in their laws surrounding what constitutes rape--and that's a battle that feminist groups have been fighting for decades now.

 

I mean, to me, if the OP's boyfriend really thought she was sleeping, that even makes it a thousand times worse. Because a) she explicitly told him before she didn't want that, and 2) he proceeded to do it again anyway when he thought she was sleeping. It's really difficult to put any sort of positive spin on that.

[fLuiD]

Again, she did not explicitly refuse. What is so difficult about gently grabbing a hand and pulling it out of her pants, or tapping him and saying no. She laid there and said NOTHING. It was wrong that he did this, but she also allowed it to happen by not stopping it when it began.

 

Its almost as if he had a slip up and let his arousal get the best of him. A quick reminder such as a gentle refusal would have been enough for him to stop. Now if he would've continued after that, and got more aggressive, there would be a problem.

[FathomFear]

Again, she did not explicitly refuse. What is so difficult about gently grabbing a hand and pulling it out of her pants, or tapping him and saying no. She laid there and said NOTHING. It was wrong that he did this, but she also allowed it to happen by not stopping it when it began.

 

Its almost as if he had a slip up and let his arousal get the best of him. A quick reminder such as a gentle refusal would have been enough for him to stop. Now if he would've continued after that, and got more aggressive, there would be a problem.

 

Well, yeah, she could have done that. But that doesn't change the status of what he did. He did not have a right to put her in that position to begin with. Especially given that she explicitly said she didn't want it to happen.

 

I mean, assuming she actually did stay asleep and he continued in the same manner, we'd probably all agree that he would be wrong. Therefore, her waking up doesn't really change the situation.