Doubting, doubting ....

[schueysgirl]

Your reply to the question why are you still with him started with the beautiful ring...

 

forgive me for taking this the wrong way...but this would not be the first thing i would list if someone asked me why I was with my fiance...

 

Yes give it back. If you dont want it, dont have it. If you should never of had it then give it back, but I dont think it willchange much.

 

The only thing it may serve to do is shock him into how unhappy you are with his behaviour.

 

From what you are telling us it sounds like this guy either has a double personality or is a complete liar. He tells you he isnt confident with women etc and then openly flirsts with other women in front of you? Doesnt add up. Who is he trying to fool? You obviously and its worked.

 

I think once you have had a break from him everything will become clear in your mind. You dont deserve to be treated like this and need to be with someone you can trust so you can relax, enjoy life and have some inner peace.

 

My fiance would never dream of doing the things your fiance has done. At the start of our relationship he had a jealous ex (well not really an ex but never mind) pursuing him, and he dealt with that very well, and that is what made me trust him. Your fiance is not treating you or the relationship with respect...

 

can you imagine what he would be like with your bridesmaids at your wedding??!?!?!?!?!

[JadedStar]

A ring wouldn't even be on my list at all....the fact that it was does say something about this relationship and her mindset.

[allypally]

I didn't get my point accross very well re: the ring.

 

I have been summoning up the courage to give it back to him. This isn't easy to do.

 

I put a note inside the bag with the ring box this morning - we have said all there is to say.

 

I have obviously given the impression that all I care about is the ring - ie. I am totally materialistic.

 

Will continue this later.

[annie24]

no - i don't get the impression you are materialistic. I mean, of course, the #1 reason for staying with a fiance shouldn't be a piece of jewelry! but i see what the ring represents - the promise to marry, that intention, he asked, you accepted, you got this big fancy ring to show it's real, he paid for it and everything...... and then he goes off and flirts with other women.

 

i understand, it's a totally confusing situation! it's not like other guys who don't want to get married, don't want to commit.... you've got a guy saying he wants to marry you.... but then he doesn't quite act the part when you are around other women.

[lady00]

Are you ending things totally or trying to go back to bf/gf?

[DN]

I think you are making far too much of this and to end an engagement over it is an over-reaction for something that could have been fixed and should have been fixed with more understanding and commitment on both sides. But it is your choice.

 

I suspect your hesitation may spring from uncertainty that you are making the right decision but it you are going to end it then you should do so now and not mislead him or anyone else by pretending to continue it for whatever reason. To do otherwise would be grossly unfair.

[ImThatGirl]

AllyPally - have you contacted a therapist yet?

 

Wow....

[schueysgirl]

Apologies if I offended you for saying you were being materialistic...but that post where you put the ring before anything else just spoke volumes...perhaps you didnt really think about it as you wrote it??

 

Anyway, I think giving the ring back is a good idea - you didnt say what you put in the note...but I think some space will do you both good...

 

I think the whole thing has got you quite down, and I think you might be surprised when you start feeling a bit better and more confident in yourself when things settle down.

 

Are you completely breaking up? It will be interesting to see his reaction to giving back the ring...although if he has any brain cells and sense about him he will understand why!!!

[lady00]

I think you are making far too much of this and to end an engagement over it is an over-reaction for something that could have been fixed and should have been fixed with more understanding and commitment on both sides. But it is your choice.

 

I read this totally differently. Maybe I am missing something? My understanding is that it's a pattern of behavior, not just a one-time incident. That is where I got the impression it would be best to end things.

[JadedStar]

I read this totally differently. Maybe I am missing something? My understanding is that it's a pattern of behavior, not just a one-time incident. That is where I got the impression it would be best to end things.

 

Exactly. This is not a one time thing. There have been other women in the scene that has caused the OP heartburn as well. There have been a few issues for awhile, not just this one. Like that trip with the coworker. I know many said it was innocent and she should lighten up. I never felt it was "nothing". I think there was more to that then this guy was admitting. And now this incident. These are not one time coincendences IMO. Sometimes with things like this it is hard to determine if it is the OP who is too insecure or is the guy in fact being a bit too forward with other women. After following all of her threads i have drawn the conclusion that it seems he is the one who is sending out cues to women inappropriately. I can't tout this as fact i can only give my take on the situation. And that is my take on it.

[lady00]

I don't know if I said this or not, so apologies if I'm repeating myself but I hope that you have decided to end things for good, not just to end the engagement. Being bf/gf also requires a high level of commitment and it does not sound like he is up for that right now. Giving back the ring is of course part of the process and I'm glad you have decided to return it.

[allypally]

I explained to him today that I cannot get past what happened on that holiday - immaterial of whom was hitting on whom. That I wasn't ready for marriage with the relationship being so unstable.

 

I have handed back the ring in its box and bag. However, we are back to dating mode now. I repeated that we had only been together for a year and felt that we rushed into the engagement (I am to blame for going out and choosing a ring and for accepting the proposal in the first place), but I didn't know what was to come.

 

It doesn't matter what he claims he didn't do or even the fact that she was hitting on him. The whole thing left me feeling extremely uncomfortable and wounded.

 

None of this is a good start point for marriage.

 

I told him that I didn't want to be in a no man's land situation i.e. engaged but putting the wedding off for a few years. Either I was going to marry him or I wasn't.

[DN]

What was his response?

 

It seems to me you are still in no man's land.

[FreedomRing]

What was his response?

 

It seems to me you are still in no man's land.

 

I agree DN What exactly is the plan now? You've obviously lost all faith and trust in him so I'm curious to know what you feel the whole handing the ring back business is really going to achieve?

[ImThatGirl]

I told him that I didn't want to be in a no man's land situation i.e. engaged but putting the wedding off for a few years. Either I was going to marry him or I wasn't.

 

Ally -

 

You returned the ring and talked to him.

 

You insisted the status be changed to "dating."

 

What's the difference in putting off a wedding for a few years and returning the ring/continueing to date? Same thing to me.

 

I really do not get any of this. This relationship is full of anxiety, questioning, wondering, disrespect...... ?

 

When do you leave to go abroad?

[JadedStar]

Ally -

 

You returned the ring and talked to him.

 

You insisted the status be changed to "dating."

 

What's the difference in putting off a wedding for a few years and returning the ring/continueing to date? Same thing to me.

 

I really do not get any of this. This relationship is full of anxiety, questioning, wondering, disrespect...... ?

 

When do you leave to go abroad?

 

Yea i don't get it either. I think the switching from engaged to dating is her way of hanging onto him in some way but it wno't make anytihng get better.

 

In fact maybe, just maybe, if he is able to change her breaking it off completely and let him see what he has lost perhaps he will change his stripes. But that is not a gimmie, but it is the only way to perhaps see if change will occur.

 

If it were me i'd break it off because i had no more trust and without trust there is nothing- not even a dating partner. I'd let it go not with hopes that he might see the light but if he did see the light and could demonstrate that change then maybe there would be a chance in the future.

 

men who seem to like the attention of other women rarely just quit cold turkey and if they do it is only after a serious occurrence to make them see what they have lost.

[lady00]

If she, as the dumper, really wants him back, she'll go after him.

[schueysgirl]

Ally - I agree with others who said you should of made a clean break. This way you would both of had space to see what you really want, and maybe he will miss you and sort out his bad attitude...

 

Still dating wont achieve anything...he wasn't capable of treating you properly when you were engaged, so if he couldnt do that, whats he going to be like now?

 

What was his response when you gave back the ring etc? I would of imagined a guy who loved you to death and wanted to marry you to be angry and say that he wanted the engagement, and put up a fight etc?

 

But then again his actions previous were not one of a man who loves you

[allypally]

He said that over the last month he has felt 'robbed' of us - i.e. the aftermath of what happened in Spain. And that he felt numb. I told him that that was how I had been feeling during the holiday and ever since. He also noticed that I had been a bit distant over the weekend.

 

I told him that I thought he and the tour guide were well suited. He wasn't amused by that remark at all and seemed disgusted by it.

 

I repeated that I couldn't understand why he did what he did, and that I never would.

 

He asked me how I saw things going in future, and I said 'slowly'.

 

I told him I wasn't damning him for having proposed to me, just that we haven't been through very much together and that I needed to know that we knew eachother very well before going ahead with a commitment as big as marriage.

 

I explained that the trust had gone and that I felt betrayed by him, regardless of which of them was doing what. I told him that some people could handle what happened on that holiday, but I'm not one of them. That I couldn't understand why it happened, and could not excuse it. That a line had been crossed which shouldn't have been.

 

He then said that he asked me to marry him because he saw himself spending the rest of his life with me, and then went on to say "why is it we always hurt the ones we love?".

He said, why would I do the things you claim I've done when I asked you to marry me?

 

He pointed out that when the woman hands the ring back, it means the relationship is over and did I know that. I told him that I did.

 

No, he didn't put up much of a fight at all. He seemed to huff and puff and look at me, turn away, ask me if there was anything more I wanted to talk about. He said he loved me. He said he could understand why I was angry with him.

 

He kept saying he was sorry, but if I couldn't forgive him then we had nothing anyway. I said I was capable of forgiving, but it was unlikely to happen very soon.

 

[The above are just my recollections]

 

Some married friends of his came over yesterday to see him and meet me. He hadn't seen them in 2 yrs. They bought an engagement card for us. We put up a front until they had gone. Then we just sat there not knowing what to say. He looked at their engagement card and seemed shattered.

 

This morning I woke up crying and couldn't stop.

 

When he left, he said he loved me.

[DN]

I don't see what else he could have done to have fought for you. What more did you want?

[allypally]

DN I don't know.

[Portage]

^^ for it to have never happened in the first place. Life is hard and it can suck, but you need to decide whether you are willing to forgive him and go forward with him, or not.

 

Good luck to you Ally.

[allypally]

I am not ready to forgive yet. I know in order to be able to move on forgiveness is essential. I haven't healed yet.

[Portage]

I am not ready to forgive yet. I know in order to be able to move on forgiveness is essential. I haven't healed yet.

 

i still believe he can do a 180 in this situation.

 

His actions will show his true intent soon enough.

[allypally]

We both acknowledged yesterday that there is no such thing as a perfect relationship - every relationship has ups and downs to get through.

 

However, the nature of this 'down' is not something I had anticipated right after accepting a marriage proposal and made me question how well I knew him. What is he really capable of? It could not have come at a worse time and I'm not about to make a serious commitment to someone I am unable to trust.

 

I forgot to add, that when we spoke yesterday, I couldn't understand why she would keep hitting on him and paying him attention if he hadn't been giving her the 'come on'. Especially at the end when she ran up to him and flung her arms around him. He never once deterred her from her inappropriate behaviour. He said when she ran up to him, he had wanted to walk away - but he didn't. Nor did he act on anything else that happened.

 

I reminded him that he said he enjoys female attention, and he replied with "but not THAT much".

 

Only yesterday before his friends arrived, he started telling me about this very attractive Polish girl who was a friend of a female friend of his who I have met (they have fallen out). He said he didn't click with her (but he has her mobile no), his mate fancied her but she didn't fancy him, and she dated another mate of theirs but it didn't last. He continued to talk about this. Then he mentioned a female civil engineer at work that he has been talking to. Every time he mentions other women I get suspicious.

 

Portage - how do you mean 'I still believe he can do a 180 degree in this situation'.