Doubting, doubting ....

[allypally]

No, he has never complained to me about anything before. I asked him on Tuesday night if there was anything I wasn't doing right, that he needed from me. He says I'm near as damn it perfect. This i know isn't true - I have loads of flaws.

 

I asked him again today when we got around to talking on the phone and he said I make him feel good etc.

 

Annie24 I don't know. He still wants marriage and a life together.

 

Maybe he feels he can't back out of this even if he wanted to. He is adamant that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me.

 

I don't know what else to tell you, I had to watch while all of this happened in Spain. We were always hugging and kissing eachother. The tour guide even commented how loved up we were, and said it seemed as though we had been together for years.

 

I think what happened on holiday has made me question the relationship. The trust issues are still there and I feel very insecure. My desire to make love as all but disappeared and my confidence is very low.

 

Forgot to mention, when I got back from work today, there was a card for me. It was from my fiance and read "you mean everything to me ... thank you for being such a wonderful partner! I hope we have a fantastic life together wherever we end up".

 

He has behaved like this before, we had been dating for 6 months and went to a friend of his birthday lunch and he sat himself between this attractive American girl and me (I was stuck at the end). He barely spoke to me and he was on the wine again, I wasn't. Once again I had to leave the table to have a cigarette because I couldn't take it. He claimed to be unaware of what he was doing, but when she left to walk to her car he stared after her for a long time which freaked me out.

 

I think he is a flirt, and I dread to think what happens when my back is turned.

 

On the phone today he said the relationship was worth struggling for ...................

[FreedomRing]

Ally,

 

I feel your distress and agony over you dilemma. I too, am facing quite a dilemma of my own(see my current thread--career or lover)which is causing me intense worry and keeping me up at night.

 

That said, it's amazing how outside perspectives can be so clear cut. There is no way, whatsoever I would be able to tolerate my partner, let alone, soon to be husband, with a flirtatious side as unabashed as your man. Too disrespectful to me, him and our relationship. I also would feel like I would be constantly worrying about what his behavior might be like, nights we went to parties, on vacations, and other social gatherings, based on his past behaviors. Ask yourself, do you feel comfortable going to social events with him based on how he has treated you thus far in those situations?

[allypally]

Sabreen81, thanks for your reply.

 

Yes, that is the problem, it is a huge concern and I am in a state of constant worry.

 

Its like there are two people: There is the fiance I know when we are on our own together - very sweet and kind, we get on really well.

 

Then in social situations, there appears to be this flirtatious man who forgets that he is with me. He hones in on the single attractive woman in the room and seems to be completely beguiled by them. Its not even as though these women are absolutely amazing. Drink is usually involved in the equation, and I end up feeling like a lemon because more often than not I am not drinking.

 

Each time I have brought it up with him he claims to be oblivious to what happened and how his behaviour made me feel very uncomfortable.

 

This trait of his is gradually destroying our relationship as I don't think I can trust him if he is out with his male friends or in social situations in general either with me or without me.

[FreedomRing]

And I think his actions have contributed to this insecurity of yours. It's not a fault of your own. Dare I say that men can really be oblivious in some situations--and I know this is a generalization but there are enough men that post admitting to this deficit, so smeh--but it's that fact that you have explained your feelinngs to him numerous times, so now there is a new issue at play. Can you see yourself being with someone who is really this naive in social settings? And would you want to keep pointing out things that should be obvious to adult men, and more importantly the man who asked you to marry him? Is he even showing a willingness to examine his behavior when you go out? I gotta say, as partners you may fail to see each other's view from time to time...thats all fine and well but imo...once your partner communicates their feelings, it is up to the other to examine their own behavior and start to make a change...

[allypally]

He came up with some ridiculous excuses as to why he was unaware and he said that maybe I should kick him or something when he is doing it.

 

My mother posed the question - why would he even want to flirt with other women when his fiance is by his side?? What is motivating him?? As for the taxi incident - this I will never get my head around why he did it.

[annie24]

No, he has never complained to me about anything before. I asked him on Tuesday night if there was anything I wasn't doing right, that he needed from me. He says I'm near as damn it perfect. This i know isn't true - I have loads of flaws.

 

I asked him again today when we got around to talking on the phone and he said I make him feel good etc.

 

Annie24 I don't know. He still wants marriage and a life together.

 

Maybe he feels he can't back out of this even if he wanted to. He is adamant that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me.

 

does he want marriage and a life together on his terms? like, he gets the benefit of being with you, but doesn't want to accept all the responsibilities that come with being a husband..... like not flirting with other women, ESPECIALLY in front of his wife!!! i wonder if he is one of those people who wants the happily married life, but also wants to act single when he feels like it.

[allypally]

Annie24 I think that is exactly what he wants.

 

He wants his wife at home with dinner ready on the table to listen to him go on about how hard his day has been. Once he has secured his marital home he still wants to be able to act the lad.

 

He is someone who likes things on his terms so this makes sense. I am fighting for the things that are important to me but he has this stealthy ability to get things to happen his way.

[annie24]

Annie24 I think that is exactly what he wants.

 

He wants his wife at home with dinner ready on the table to listen to him go on about how hard his day has been. Once he has secured his marital home he still wants to be able to act the lad.

 

He is someone who likes things on his terms so this makes sense. I am fighting for the things that are important to me but he has this stealthy ability to get things to happen his way.

 

i dated a guy like this over the summer. he introduced me to all his friends, made it clear he wanted a relationship with me, invited me on trips with his friends and to all their parties, wanted to spend every second with me...... but wouldn't take down his link removed profile! he's a bully. he wanted things on his terms, not mine.

 

you're the one who knows him, and only you can decide how much you can deal with. some women are married to flirts, but know they wouldn't take it further. some people are just naturally flirtatious. but if he is making you feel insecure, it may be a sign that he isn't a good husband for you. i would have definitely been upset by the taxi incident, if i were in your shoes. it seems like there was no real reason for him to go off with her. seemed pretty inappropriate.

[allypally]

It was totally inappropriate to go off with her. After that I was next to him when he asked her how her room was (at the next hotel we were staying in). He claims their conversation in the taxi was general, but at the dinner table that night they seemed to have some sort of connection. He also claims that during their taxi ride he had told her that we were getting married. This I think was a lie because one of the other group members came out with the fact that we were getting married and the tour leader recoiled as though she had no idea.

 

When we got back to our room after dinner, I asked him if marriage was what he really wanted (not making any reference to what I was witnessing), because I told him that he had a few days to make his mind up since we were buying the ring the following week. He was adamant.

 

I am not dreaming up what I saw or heard.

 

I don't know how some women can cope with being married to an adulterer just so that they can have married status.

[FreedomRing]

Yeah it's already bothering you...why wait for more situations to arise? Yes the whole tour thing just seemed completely disrespectful. Why tolerate the ridiculous excuses? You dont want to set the tone that you will tolerate this type of inappropriateness.

 

Reminds me of last year, when my bf and I went out with a group of people for NYE. At the table was one woman, who did not come with a date. Well we all sharing laughs about something, but then she mentioned something under her breath that only my bf and I heard, and as he is a friendly and pretty silly person he chuckled and offered another joke. Well I was getting not so cool vibes from her the whole night, but after about 5 mins of this so called, "joke session"..i nudged him under the table while carrying on a convo with my other friend. He was oblivious that this woman *seemed* to be flirting(at least to me) with him. He immediately became attentive to me, asking what was wrong, etc. I pulled him aside to the hallway, and told him my sentiment. I said, I know on his end, he was innocent, but I didn't like this woman's demeanor etc. I told him different things i noticed about her with all the women's dates from the night, and still he could not see...whatever. The bottom line was that he saw how it upset me, and trust and believe, he has been alot more conscious when we go out...as an aside, he reassured me that she was "mudduck" anyway..lol which she was...but that clearly was not the point--or, uh, my point.

 

He teases me about that night so much, and being so "vulture-like" with him...whatever..we can agree to disagree on what HE saw or didnt see taking place. He won't be disrespecting me like that again, because my feelings matter to him. And I really believe it should be just that simple, when in a relationship.

[annie24]

It was totally inappropriate to go off with her. After that I was next to him when he asked her how her room was (at the next hotel we were staying in). He claims their conversation in the taxi was general, but at the dinner table that night they seemed to have some sort of connection.

 

When we got back to our room after dinner, I asked him if marriage was what he really wanted (not making any reference to what I was witnessing), because he had been now and when we were buying the ring the following week. He was adamant.

 

I am not dreaming up what I saw or heard.

 

I don't know how some women can cope with being married to an adulterer just so that they can have married status.

 

maybe you should do some thinking if marriage to this guy is what YOU really want?

 

how some women cope..... money. or maybe they have their own affairs. maybe for some, the financial security they have in the marriage lets them 'look the other way.' or some women have no sex drive and don't mind their husband looking elsewhere.

 

i dunno. i don't have your history with this guy. i know if i were dating a guy for a few months and he acted like this to me, he would probably be gone. (or i'd seriously be reconsidering the relationship)

 

but, then again, i haven't dated him for as long as you have. you probably need to sit down and weigh the pros and cons of being with him. look - i don't think the perfect guy exists. you're never going to find 110% of what you are looking for. i think it's just a matter of deciding which imperfections you are willing to live with.

[allypally]

Well, I am certainly not with him for money - I earn a very good salary as I have a good job. I am not dependent on him in any way.

 

I am at a stage where I am seriously reconsidering the relationship. I think he is well aware of the hell I am going through at the moment.

 

I know the perfect guy doesn't exist, but acting as though he is single when he is about to take one of the biggest steps you can ever make in life is causing me major concern.

 

He said to me on the way back from our holiday - why would I want to trade a well spoken, pretty, intelligent and interesting woman for someone else?

 

He has the 'package' he wants in a woman, and yet he behaves as though I mean nothing to him.

[Girl79]

Ally, I think his actions are and always have been speaking louder than his words. He just doesn't get it. He acts out, then procedes to tell you how sorry he is and that he wasn't thinking and that he just wants to be with you. His actions are not really saying the same thing at all. I was shocked to read that he actually ditched you to take a cab ride with her instead. That is so ridiculously inappropriate! She should have taken the cab ride by herself, she obviously wanted your guy alone with her. He SHOULD have immediately thought of how unhappy you would be if he left, and he should have stayed with you. It's called being CONSIDERATE of your so's feelings, which he clearly does not have for you. If you stay with him, it's clear you will have to put up with this behaviour, do you really want to do that?

[allypally]

The worst thing is, I have been going through inner turmoil lately as a result of residual anger from what happened on our holiday.

 

I lash out at him when there is any implied sign of him not being serious in his commitment to me. e.g. when he signed off 'your boyfriend'. I have been upset for the last 5 days or so, because I went off on one about this. That and the guilt of feeling that I cannot trust him.

 

She should have taken the cab ride by herself, she obviously wanted your guy alone with her. He SHOULD have immediately thought of how unhappy you would be if he left, and he should have stayed with you. It's called being CONSIDERATE of your so's feelings, which he clearly does not have for you. If you stay with him, it's clear you will have to put up with this behaviour, do you really want to do that?

 

I clocked it up at the time that she was obviously engineering a situation where she could get him to herself. I insisted that he and I stay together but he seemed to ignore it.

 

I think there is a lot of good in our relationship (I seem to always go on about the bad stuff on ENA), but he has many qualities which I love and admire.

 

However, I'm still in turmoil about his behaviour as I am unable to understand his motivation.

[annie24]

what would it take for the turmoil to lessen?

[allypally]

Well there are 2 options:

 

1) I end it - then I'll wonder what if.

2) Stay with him and continue talking to him (i.e until he can take it no more and want to finish it himself), explaining what I am going through and hope that he won't do that again.

[annie24]

well, neither option really ends your turmoil. regarding #1, it's not good to be sitting around thinking, 'what if.' i think whatever decision you come to, you need to be at peace with.

 

#2 doesn't work either because you can't talk a man into being faithful or talk him into not being flirtatious anymore. it's something that has to come out of him. does he understand why it bothered you? and has he offered what he would do in the future differently?

[allypally]

well, neither option really ends your turmoil. regarding #1, it's not good to be sitting around thinking, 'what if.' i think whatever decision you come to, you need to be at peace with.

 

Agreed. I wonder whether its a power thing. He flirts with other women which makes me feel very insecure and question my sanity as I'm doing now.

 

#2 doesn't work either because you can't talk a man into being faithful or talk him into not being flirtatious anymore. it's something that has to come out of him. does he understand why it bothered you? and has he offered what he would do in the future differently?

 

 

When we last spoke about it, I think he did understand as I spelled it out to him very clearly. No, unfortunately he hasn't offered what he would do differently. OK, the only thing he offered to do was change his email address, and he said I could go through and check his email folders

[annie24]

hm, he could have offered not to do it again, should a similar type of situation arise in the future. like if it comes down to spending time with you, vs. spending time with some flirtatious woman, he should choose you!

[allypally]

That would seem the obvious response.

 

First there may be an element of him getting a sense of power over me, or just that he can't help himself.

 

I am going round and round in circles here, ending back at the same place - I know what I saw, I have no way of guaranteeing that it won't happen again - I am in a vulnerable place in this relationship.

[annie24]

i'm just a single girl - maybe i am not always the best one to give advice..... but my take is that you shouldn't go up to the altar and say 'i do' until you are 150% sure that you trust this guy and you trust you are making the right decision. marriage is a big deal! of course, you never know what lies ahead in your married life or whatever.... but i don't think you should be standing at the altar with lingering doubts in the back of your head. i think you should go in fully confident that you are making the right decision and choosing the right life partner.

[allypally]

Thanks for your advice - I have given the same advice to other posters on ENA in Marriage/Long term relationships.

 

I think if one more incident cropped up on similar-ish grounds to what happened on our holiday then I would be able to walk away from the relationship.

 

Regardless of what he has said to me during our 3 (getting on for 4) discussions now, what he did was inexcusable. It shocked me to the core and I'm STILL recovering. He has had to bear the brunt of my temper and insecurity since we got back.

 

The trouble is, by staying with him I am giving him the heads up that I'm putting up with that kind of behaviour.

 

Not what could be considered to be a happy relationship.

[annie24]

what does your GUT instinct say to you?

[allypally]

My GUT instinct is totally negative about him.

 

But that is probably a mixture of insecurity, fear etc

 

My friend/flatmate said I should give the guy a break - sure, he has made mistakes, but if I end it, there will be no going back.

[annie24]

i dunno - i think that the gut can be really right. i had a bad gut feeling about a guy, but i wasn't sure if i was being paranoid or what. well, we broke things off, even though part of me wondered if i was being too harsh on him. well, i found out several months later that he was married, not divorced as he had told me!!!! (his wife is in another country, and he was living alone, making money to send back home to her).

 

so, i've learned to trust my gut instinct. i'd urge you to seriously consider your gut also and listen to what it is saying.