Punch clocks @ the bathroom starting today!!

[Mythical_Suicide]

If my employer brought in that rule I would probably walk out. Don't care that is just plain degrading.

 

Degrading? How?

 

My last employer had a rule similar instated because so many people took advantage of bathroom breaks.

 

If he doesn't like their rules, he can easily quit. It's their rules he has to follow them.

[Ac143]

He is an analyst, that's what Im the manager of. So yes, he is out of line and so are all the other people who asked me for a promotion within the first month or so. If he thought he was too qualified for this job, he shouldnt have taken it and looked for something better.

 

I am only 28 and a manger because I didn't complain about everything that was "wrong" or I didn't like at the work place. I worked hard and decided I will be a manager here one day, so I can change some of these ridiculous rules and make it easier on these people. I consider myself from the Gen Y and I didn't say everyone is like that, but you have to admit - there are tons of people out there that just dont work hard anymore and expect things just to fall into their lap. Its nonsense...

 

There is tons of room to grow here and he knows this, if he just sticks around, works hard and does what he needs to do - the guy will get promoted one day but demanding such a thing after a month is crazy.

 

BTW - I never denied anyone a bathroom break, if you gotta go you gotta go. BUT at the same time I know my employees like the back of my hand and I know which ones will abusive it and which ones wont.

[JadedStar]

He isn't being denied, he just has to clock out so he isn't getting paid for his time spent in the bathroom.

 

Right. I love how everyone is all up in arms saying he has been denied being able to go, or what about people who have bladder issues, etc etc. A lot of panic for nothing. Someone with a bladder problem will have an accommodation and no one is being denied a bathroom break. You might get docked five mins. IS this the end of the world? Is this the worst that can happen on the job? Geesh.

 

For those saying they would walk out of a job like this - well let's just say I am not surprised if employment woes always follow them closely.

[Ac143]

If my employer brought in that rule I would probably walk out. Don't care that is just plain degrading.

 

Hey and that's your decision. There are tons of people out there looking for jobs so this probably wouldnt hurt your employer as much as you think.

 

I know if my boss gave me a rule I needed to follow and I didn't like it, he would tell me "oh well it is what it is, if you dont like it then you know what to do" and believe me my boss has a lot of ridiculous rules. UGH

[JadedStar]

You gotta be kidding me????? I think your posts have spoken and shown that you indeed still have a lot to learn about the "real" world. CP you do have so much to learn about many things. And i honestly hope you get ths experience. I say that with all sincerity.

[Mythical_Suicide]

Hey and that's your decision. There are tons of people out there looking for jobs so this probably wouldnt hurt your employer as much as you think.

 

I know if my boss gave me a rule I needed to follow and I didn't like it, he would tell me "oh well it is what it is, if you dont like it then you know what to do" and believe me my boss has a lot of ridiculous rules. UGH

 

Yep, and try explaining to any future employers why you walked out of their job. Quitting a job because you don't like their rules aren't going to look very good on an application and I can almost guarantee noone is going to hire you since you don't like following what you think are stupid rules.

[DN]

Just as a point of interest. An older friend told me a story from when he worked in a big chemical engineering company back in the fifties. Very disciplined, button-down company with rules that everyone was expected to follow and were disciplined immediately for breaking them.

 

There was one engineer however that was given an office and no restrictions. He would come in when he felt like it, wear whatever he wanted, sit for hours in his office doing absolutely nothing and then go home. He ignored senior managers, ignored the rules and did precisely what he wanted.

 

But once or twice a year, he would come up with an idea that would make the company several million dollars.

 

So the moral of the story: if you want to ignore the rules make yourself worth the aggravation you cause your boss.

[JadedStar]

Just as a point of interest. An older friend told me a story from when he worked in a big chemical engineering company back in the fifties. Very disciplined, button-down company with rules that everyone was expected to follow and were disciplined immediately for breaking them.

 

There was one engineer however that was given an office and no restrictions. He would come in when he felt like it, wear whatever he wanted, sit for hours in his office doing absolutely nothing and then go home. He ignored senior managers, ignored the rules and did precisely what he wanted.

 

But once or twice a year, he would come up with an idea that would make the company several million dollars.

 

So the moral of the story: if you want to ignore the rules make yourself worth the aggravation you cause your boss.

 

 

Yup. If you add a lot of value you will find that you can get away with a lot more than if you are only barely meeting the requirments of the job.

 

This is what i meant when i said that autonomy in positions is usually not granted until a worker has been in the job for quite awhile and have proven themselves as dependable, hard working and value added. there are many on this thread that think it works the other way around. First you get perks, THEN you prove yourself. HA! Only in eutopia. There is a lot to be learned with that mindset! Rude awakenings!

[MollyElise]

You can't push people into getting these degrees for the reasons of personal advancement in employment and then get upset with them when they ask about promotions. You've probably hired him as an office assistant. Though if he too has an analyst position he is out of line.

 

Even if the person in question was an Admin they were out of line. If they thought that position was beneath them, they should not have taken it. When you accept a position at a company, unless otherwise discussed you should assume you will be in that same role for a year. I have seen people pull similair stunts and it got them put in the slot of 'you'll get a promotion over my dead body' and within months they were pushed out of the organization.

 

Everyone thinks GenYers are tough... wait until we start to really feel the millennials who have been hand fed challenges and rewards their whole life and expect nothing less once they get into the workforce.

[shikashika]

Even if the person in question was an Admin they were out of line. If they thought that position was beneath them, they should not have taken it. When you accept a position at a company, unless otherwise discussed you should assume you will be in that same role for a year. I have seen people pull similair stunts and it got them put in the slot of 'you'll get a promotion over my dead body' and within months they were pushed out of the organization.

 

Everyone thinks GenYers are tough... wait until we start to really feel the millennials who have been hand fed challenges and rewards their whole life and expect nothing less once they get into the workforce.

 

I agree, and of course i'm making generalisations here, but i'ave had anumber of problems with the millennial kids

 

They have been told by their parents to go for everything, even if they haven't worked hard to get it.. Thats where the biggest problem lies.

 

You get so many young kids, or recent graduates wanting managerial roles, because, in the words of a girl I worked with, "I wannna delegate"

 

While I've wanted to move up in my career, I still wouldn't apply for a job that I don't feel qualified to do, where as I see a lot of young ones applying for jobs because they want to just move up move up without doing the grunt work before they get there. I even had a co-op (half study/ work term) work for us and when I asked her to do some mail/emails for me she said, "I'm in the middle of getting an Business degree...I'm not the office slave" and

 

She honestly thought that because she nearly had her degree, we should be congratulating her and putting her on a team lead on projects.

 

As I mentioned in a post above, I was working part-time in a bistro and she was just horrifed and said she would never do that kind of work now that she has a degree.

 

Sadly, I see that sort of attitude all over the place and THAT sickens me.

 

Working at a uni too, we had people who were 23 trying to apply for associate Dean positions.

 

I don't think its responsible of people who don't have much experience to apply for these positions, (not that they get them!) and it baffles me that they think they can be directors and managers.... and having their parents encouraging them to apply!

[Ac143]

^^^^^ I agree & I dont know many places where you can walk in a be a director just because you have a degree...there has to be some experience behind your degree as well. The working world isn't that easy lol. If it was everyone would be a business owner or director!

[CaptainPlanet]

To be honest I think that is the companies fault for hiring someone a little off center or lacking in the brain. You didn't interview the person ?

 

As I mentioned in a post above, I was working part-time in a bistro and she was just horrifed and said she would never do that kind of work now that she has a degree.

 

Oh - please. Two of my friends are tertiary qualified and both work in hospitality, despite their degree's. I can see the headline 'Young people refuse to work in service' seriously, I doubt it. Have you ever been to a restaurant ? When I was in retail I worked with a guy who had an Electronics Engineering Degree, and my best mate has a Computer Science degree - works in a call center because he can't get a coding job anywhere.

 

To say that gen y commonly expect to be directors at 23 isn't accurate, most are struggling to find a place on the ladder to even start climbing. If you are encountering a lot of the ones you describe maybe you could be more pragmatic in your selection process and have an open mind in regards to potential candidates.

 

Look for someone who is 23 years old or over, who is from a lower class background, who has worked in a lot of service jobs and you'll probably find yourself a hard working Gen Y. Lots of people just want a shot to break out and they never get that chance. Yet employers complain about the Gen - Y'ers that they chose to hire. Considering the state of the economy in the USA and Canada I do find this a little hard to believe. There is working your way up and working yourself to death, there is starting at the bottom, and never starting.

 

In any case what is happening with Glegends workplace is more about control than it is a case of Gen - Y being bad workers. The reason is that mostly they're not and regardless of the generation he has a right to be upset about being docked for toilet breaks.

[shikashika]

No CP, its a co-op position, we get students placed with us all the time and they are selected by their coop cooridnators. I can't believe that you would put that at the fault of her coordinator rather than her crappy attitude.

 

Oh please what? Why do you seriously doubt what I've said? "Why ask if I've ever been to a restaurant... i said I used to work in one!

 

Plenty of young people of that generation wouldn't work in jobs like that, because they think its beneath them, yet i know several people my age, who have better jobs, more experience and more education, that don't mind doing it at all. Thats what I find funny, the striaght-out-of uni type are pickier with their jobs and positions than people who have more work experience than they do.

 

People work in a bistro, like me , as something extra, not because its theonly job we can get... and its good fun as well!

 

Why are you putting the US and Canada into the same category? Canada isn't nearly so bad as the States, IMO.

[Batya33]

After 7 years of college and grad school you can bet I was going to be pickier - because I was looking for a career, not a job, and so the job needed to be relevant to my career as well as help me pay off school loans. Taking a job that was irrelevant to my career would have looked suspicious on my resume. However, I never thought any tasks were beneath me, nor did I think that I knew more than people with years more work experience than me.

[shikashika]

After 7 years of college and grad school you can bet I was going to be pickier - because I was looking for a career, not a job, and so the job needed to be relevant to my career as well as help me pay off school loans. Taking a job that was irrelevant to my career would have looked suspicious on my resume. However, I never thought any tasks were beneath me, nor did I think that I knew more than people with years more work experience than me.

 

 

Yes, Batya, I agree you should look for a 'career', if thats what you want, but I'm talking about a co-op student or people who have just graduated. You yourself say that when starting off in a job you asked how high to jump through the hoop. One can't expect to finish a degree in April, then jump right into their 'career' in May... and then expecrt to have a PA or secretary working for them... and this is what I've seen with many recent graduates.

[Batya33]

Yes, Batya, I agree you should look for a 'career', if thats what you want, but I'm talking about a co-op student or people who have just graduated. You yourself say that when starting off in a job you asked how high to jump through the hoop. One can't expect to finish a degree in April, then jump right into their 'career' in May... and then expecrt to have a PA or secretary working for them... and this is what I've seen with many recent graduates.

 

Well, actually with my graduate degree those expectations were completely realistic, were promised to us by the employers who recruited us, and that was what was delivered. Of course I worked my tail off and asked how high to jump, but yes we had assistants and we were treated as professionals from day one. I found invaluable the input from assistants who had been in the industry for many more years than me.

[shikashika]

Well, actually with my graduate degree those expectations were completely realistic, were promised to us by the employers who recruited us, and that was what was delivered. Of course I worked my tail off and asked how high to jump, but yes we had assistants and we were treated as professionals from day one. I found invaluable the input from assistants who had been in the industry for many more years than me.

 

 

I think we are talking about different issues here batya, I highly doubt you would saunter into a workplace and proclaim, "I wanna delegate' or say to your boss, "no, I won't spend 3 mintues sending out that email".

 

Nor do I see you as the type of person who would sit on her bum for 7 months 'waiting' to get that perfect job instead of doing something in the meantime. These are people i've worked with... the ones i'm thinking of don't have graduate degrees.

 

I just see so many people who won't take on jobs because they think they are some how above it, when

 

The people we have hired (and I don't know what you do exactly) I'm guessing are not at the level you are, just from what you are saying.

 

An example, we've had several new hired, with a bachelors degree, early twenties who when hired believed they could be managers of the department theyw ere just hired into. No supervisory experience, no graduate degrees, just the want to move up very quickly without putting in the eudcation or the experience.

 

I very much doubt when (if) you were a co-op student that you would refuse to do certain tasks, and lthen eave your supervisors to do it instead.

 

(note: this girl did NOT get a positive review form us, so it came back to bite her)

 

One problem I've seen over the past few years is the people who refuse to do certain tasks... or whine and compain about having to do things that they just don't want to do. What happens one day if the poo hits the fan and these people lose their job? Would it be beneath them to go out and get some 'menial' work? I say that because i've seen it happen. When a friend of mine lost a well-paying job in the IT industry, not because he was a poor employee, the company just had to lay off people, he didn't get a job for a YEAR because he would only go for IT jobs... there were plenty of jobs out there, just not jobs he wanted to do, or jobs he felt paid too little or were below his skill set.

[CaptainPlanet]

What about all of the generation y'ers begging to be given a chance in the professional world.. or even in the skilled workforce in general.

 

Surely some of them must be hard working enough to meet your standards. As I said maybe it is the type of person your organization is choosing to hire ? Plus I don't think this is generational. I just asked my Dad what would happen if they did that (dock for toilet breaks) at his work and he said that there would be 'outrage',

[shikashika]

What about all of the generation y'ers begging to be given a chance in the professional world.. or even in the skilled workforce in general.

 

Surely some of them must be hard working enough to meet your standards. As I said maybe it is the type of person your organization is choosing to hire ? Plus I don't think this is generational. I just asked my Dad what would happen if they did that (dock for toilet breaks) at his work and he said that there would be 'outrage',

 

Yes, I think people are being given a chance, and yes there are many that work hard. I, and a few others in this thread are talking about young people with no experience and no education with completely unrealistic expectations.

 

 

 

There are just so many of these young people out there and with those attitdues that its inevitable you're going to end up hiring them

 

so on one had you say, 'give them more experience' , but you also say,"well don't hire them then'

 

Its the attitude of this generation. I've seen it a LOT over the past 3-4 years. My grandparents thought my parents had it easy, my parents thought I had it easier, and I think the younger ones have it easy, so maybe its all just different expectations with different generations.

 

By the way i have never disagreed with you about the toilet breaks, ( what this original thread was intended) I think its ridiculous and i'm sure if glegend looked into it inthe Ontario labour standards he would find out if its even legal.

[CaptainPlanet]

Its not fair. We sit in a call center trying to get ahead, and have to listen to how we won't start at the bottom. How we're lazy... ect, ect. Generation call center, the service generation. That's what we are.

 

Meanwhile employers complain about the people they choose to hire and blame us for it. Why not think out of the square and hire some different types of people ?

 

I'm glad we do agree on the toilet thing because it wasn't fair in the first place to blame the fact he was upset about it on being gen y.

[shikashika]

Its not fair. We sit in a call center trying to get ahead, and have to listen to how we won't start at the bottom. How we're lazy... ect, ect. Generation call center, the service generation. That's what we are.

 

Meanwhile employers complain about the people they choose to hire and blame us for it. Why not think out of the square and hire some different types of people ?

 

I'm glad we do agree on the toilet thing because it wasn't fair in the first place to blame the fact he was upset about it on being gen y.

 

Hmnn.. I don't see what your call centre has to do with any of the examples provided. You can improve yourself by getting further education and putting in the time. Sometimes it takes time... i'm still doing that.. I may even go back to university next year and choose a completely different career path... what then huh.. I'll be mid thirties and back at the 'bottom' again, but thats the road i'm choosing to take!

[Batya33]

You and I are totally on the same wavelength as far as this.

[calidreamin0]

Where do you work? Im wondering what type of business this is!

[itsallgrand]

Well most of what is in the original post is standard stuff for a lot of workplaces that are primarily retail or business.

 

But I do heartily feel the repulsion at things such as "punch clocks for the bathroom" and the like.

 

Things are introduced as security measures or to help protect the business...even such things as cameras, alarms, other security measures...and they end up creating such an atmosphere of distrust and resentment in the workers that it's like cutting their nose off to spite their face.

 

They give lame lines to the workers and lie, try to put a positive spin instead of doing the work to be honest and open with those who make their businesses possible.

So there becomes this war of distrust started with those in higher management - essentially blaming those below and on the floors and trying to justify policing their own staff.

 

I refuse to work anywhere where the security measures become ridiculous. It's not worth it...and there since when are companies NOT accountable for what sort of staff they are keeping, what sort of policies and treatment and environment they are creating??

 

If you are having such a problem with staff that they are perpetually screwing you, does it make sense to bring the trust factor for the good workers down FURTHER or seed out the bad ones and/or change what you are doing that is creating/allowing such bad behavior?

 

Often times the companies want to blame the employees and not take accountability that it is some of their VALUES and PRACTICES in that company which are creating such bad results in the staff they do have.

 

So few workplaces anymore seek to inspire their employees....but rather put fear in them to 'keep the gears going'.

[Batya33]

I never thought it was my employer's job to inspire me - I always saw it as the opposite. If the employer did choose to inspire me, that was icing on the cake because the employer was paying me money, which should be inspiration enough. Having said that I do try to inspire my team members - because I think it makes the environment more pleasant, because that is the culture of the company I work for and because it increases productivity -- but I don't see it as an accross the board employer's obligation. It's not school and it's not entertainment.