No contact with ex for 2 1/2 months and yesterday I find a letter at my door...what should I do?

[mariposa81]

We didn't end up going out of town. The plan changed again and we thought about going to the Biltmore estate. But even though I really wanted to go and had never been and we were going to split the room/Christmas package in half, he said he thought it was a little too pricey.

 

So I suggested that I could cook at home. After we ate, he said we needed to talk. It was a long talk that was pretty emotional; he told me that at this point in his life, it's really exciting for him to go out drinking with the guys, but going out and doing things with me is just "not that exciting/important" to him. I told him I didn't think it was fair for our plans together to always in limbo because something that's more fun to him may come up. He said, "I know babe. You're right. I know it's not fair." I told him how I only want him to do things if he WANTS to, not out of obligation or because I'll "get mad if he doesn't." I want to know that when he tells me we're going to do something, I can trust that because he has the DESIRE to do it.

 

I told him how excited I am to see him on the weekends and how I sometimes even go shopping because I want to wear something different, etc to look good for him. He said he didn't know how much it meant to me.

 

At one point, he started saying, "I just don't feel like I'm capable of giving you those things at this time in my life. My life is going to change a lot in the next 6 months with me finishing my program and when I begin my career, I'm not going to be able to go out and have fun like this. I know what it takes to make you happy, I just don't know why I don't do it." He alluded to the fact that he wishes I would wait around until he "gets this out of his system." That I have everything he wants in a wife, that at the same time, he can't just walk away from this because of the person that I am and how much he loves me.

 

We both discussed how neither of us feel desireable to the other (my prob with that started way back when he told me something was wrong with me because I didn't have orgasms everytime we were intimate; even though we got past it, I've struggled with feeling desireable ever since). His issues with it stem from other sources in our relationship. I told him that I've really felt like he isn't in love with me as much anymore and that maybe things would be different if I had done -blank-...etc etc." He said that no one's to blame, that I it's not just my fault.

 

He held me and cuddled with me on the couch and after going upstairs because it was late, we ended up being intimate for the first time in a couple of weeks. We didn't come to a conclusion about anything, but he said we would discuss it first thing in the morning.

 

So this morning we wake up and he avoids discussing it. I asked him what we were going to do. He hums, "I don't know." He kept asking, "What do you think?" I told him that I can't force anything on him, that if the desire's not there to give 100% on both our parts, that if he feels he can't at this stage in his life, then it's only fair that we end it. Otherwise, we're going to continue to have the same problems and we're going to continue hurting each other.

 

I told him that basically I just want to feel like I'm just as important as the other things and people that he values in his life. That our time together is special to both of us, not just one of us. He began to get defensive and said, "But I DO spend time with you. Why does it matter if it's with other people? Why can't you see it my way?? What difference does it make that I don't WANT to, the way you say you want me to??...When have I flaked out on you?? Huh??...When have we made plans and I've actually cancelled on you to do something else with the guys?? Huh???" He asked why can't I come out with they guys; that what difference does it make if we're with the guys because to him, that's still time together.

 

This was nothing different than we had discussed last night, so I didn't understand where his defensiveness was coming from. I was just trying to tell him that if one of us or both of us have exhausted our efforts, then we should go ahead and end it instead of hurting each other over and over. That we needed to come to some sort of conclusion. I began to get upset because it was as if our conversation last night never even happened. He kept saying that he didn't get me, when it seemed we understood each other the night before.

 

I kept trying to be reasonable, but I was so emotionally exhausted and confused at that point, that I asked if he would please leave; that I needed to be alone and maybe it would be better if our time apart started before next Friday when he goes to LA. I put all his belongings in a bag. He asked me why I was doing it like this, I told him because like him, i can't do this anymore this way either, that I was tired of us hurting each other but not knowing how to make things better. He sat downstairs quiet for about 15 minutes before leaving.

 

I feel so weak for crying so much after he left, but it's so painful to want something to work but not know how. I also feel like so much of it is my fault. There's so much that we would need to work on and I feel like he's given up. Thankfully, a good friend of mine called. Things recently ended with is girlfriend but he still wants to be with her. It was nice to get a guy's perspective on things and have someone relate to my hurt and pain.

 

So he texted me a bit ago saying, "Why don't we consider the option of living together? That way we could spend that time with one another and when plans come up we could do them together and if you don't feel like it, I could go alone without making you think I am choosing them over you."

 

I told him that I would need to give that a lot of thought because that's a HUGE step and usually people do that as a step forward when things are already going well.

 

He then wrote back, "I know I love you. I know that in my heart. What I don't know is why it's the way it is between us. Can we make an appointment to see a psychologist the first week back in January?"

 

I told him I would be willing to do that.

 

Although I see his logic as a way to make things better, I don't think living together is going to solve our problems and it shouldn't be used to pacify my desire to have time alone with him in our relationship. A lot of responsibility comes with making that step and we're not seeing eye to eye on other things, so moving in may make things worse. Do you guys agree?

 

It's like he wants to be with me, but he doesn't want to be with me right now. *sigh* Why the heck do I keep doing this to myself?

 

I think if we're to try and work this out at all at this point, this time apart (if not permanently) and seeing a psychologist afterwards is the best thing.

[GoldenHillGuy]

Hugs Mari!

 

DO NOT move in together. I can't believe he would suggest that. It will only make things worse, trust me. When I have more time, I'll write more.

[mariposa81]

Hugs Mari!

 

DO NOT move in together. I can't believe he would suggest that. It will only make things worse, trust me. When I have more time, I'll write more.

 

I figured it probably would make things worse. I have no experience in that area because I've never lived with a significant other before. He, on the other hand, has lived with 2 previous girlfriends. Thank you GoldenHillGuy. Looking forward to your response later.

[GoldenHillGuy]

Myself and your ex have a lot of similarities. I think I can relate.

[Batya33]

I also agree that the living together option won't change the fact that his priority is to party with the boys - you may have more "hours" with him but you will still feel like second fiddle.

 

It's nice that he feels love for you -- but he is choosing to prioritize partying over you -- I would watch the feet not the lips. Nothing wrong with partying - but it's inconsistent with your needs and lifestyle. Maybe give him time to get it out of his system and then let him come back to you?

[mariposa81]

I also agree that the living together option won't change the fact that his priority is to party with the boys - you may have more "hours" with him but you will still feel like second fiddle.

 

It's nice that he feels love for you -- but he is choosing to prioritize partying over you -- I would watch the feet not the lips. Nothing wrong with partying - but it's inconsistent with your needs and lifestyle. Maybe give him time to get it out of his system and then let him come back to you?

 

I was thinking of that too. I mean, there's nothing wrong with his needs right now anymore than there's anything wrong with my needs from a relationship right now. The problem is that our needs are different when it comes to each other. Sure, I enjoy going out with him and his friends but it's not the only kind of time I want to spend with him in order to sustain a relationship.

 

The only problem is that he's got some big decisions to make in the upcoming months with regard to if he's going to stay in this state or not when he's done with his grad program in June. He says right now is the only time he'll have to party because he thinks his life will change dramatically when he begins his career because he'll have new responsibilities. But he's also said he doesn't know WHEN he'll outgrow this stage. I'm not so sure he knows when he won't "need" to go out get drunk and party as often anymore and when he'll see spending time in a relationship as equally valuable (if not more) with the person you love.

 

After this morning, I don't really have the desire to go to LA for New Year's. I feel like I need some time to clear my head and this time apart will enable me to reflect on things without all this tension.

 

I guess I'll just have to see how it unfolds, but I do feel sort of like we're at a crossroads because time isn't really on our side. In a way it's sort of like, we give it our best shot now or never. I still feel really sad about the whole thing and a small part of me wishes I had just thrown his letter in the trash when I received it because of how painful this has become. It certainly wasn't what I had hoped for.

[Batya33]

Well I was trying to be diplomatic but in my opinion his priorities are foolish given that he has the opportunity to have you in his life. But that's not something he will relate to right now, most likely, and unfortunately.

[mariposa81]

Well I was trying to be diplomatic but in my opinion his priorities are foolish given that he has the opportunity to have you in his life. But that's not something he will relate to right now, most likely, and unfortunately.

 

I couldn't agree with you more.

[diamond78]

Well I was trying to be diplomatic but in my opinion his priorities are foolish given that he has the opportunity to have you in his life. But that's not something he will relate to right now, most likely, and unfortunately.

 

 

I agree with this and everything else that has been posted thus far.

 

I don't know....I would be really discouraged if a guy told me he finds spending time partying with the guys exciting and fun, but that he didn't feel that way about me when spending time together.

 

I don't think I could ever feel comfortable and secure in that relationship after hearing those words.

 

Living together would only add to your frustation and his resentment.

 

You guys are just simply not on the same page as far as what you want out of the relationship right now. It's a shame you are finding this out yet again after giving him another try.

 

The main thing that worries me is that it may be a long while ( if ever ) before he starts getting his party days out of his system and learn to really value spending quality time with you.

 

The question is are you willing to wait for something that is such an uncertainty?

[FreedomRing]

He wants his cake and eat it too. So much that he impulsively threw out the moving together bit, when it's clear that the only person who might benefit from that is....neither of you, in reality. If he was thinking clearly and unselfishly, he would have never suggested it for many obvious reasons, a big one being that he will be deciding in less then 6 months whether to stay in the state or not...if you were to move in together, where would that leave you two? Of course it's a bad idea...but taking space(i actually would just end it altogether at this point) is a better idea.

[mariposa81]

^^Exactly. He wants his cake and eat it too in the sense that it's like he wants me in his life until he IS ready. Moving in together would no doubt end in disaster. It does for some people even when everything's going well otherwise.

 

One of the reasons he doesn't have the desire to spend quality time just the two of us is that his relationship with me is no longer "new and exciting." His therapist asked him if I was someone who he had just started dating, would he want to spend time alone with me and give up hanging out with the guys as often, or cancel on the guys, to go on dates with me etc. He told his therapist that yes, he would.

 

He said he's discovered through therapy that he always wants life to be fun and exciting, that when something stops being fun, he doesn't want to do it anymore (this applies to more than just relationships for him). He said he's working to overcome that in therapy because life isn't always that way and that being married isn't going to be "fun" 100% of the time. He said he doesn't understand where that mentality came from.

 

It would be different if I knew he wasn't capable of giving quality time to ANYONE right now because of his need to hang out with the guys, but the truth is that if he met someone else, he would hang out with the guys less to spend time with her because it would be new and fun (just like him and I did in the beginning).

 

So it's really not that he doesn't want to do that with anyone, it's just that he doesn't want to do it with ME (although he says differently because he says he would never begin something new with someone when he's almost done with his program, especially since he's going to be so busy these new few months; that I'm the only one that would motivate him to stay here until we were able to compromise on moving to a mutually decided location). I can't help but take it a little personally.

 

But anyway, I don't know why it seems to hurt worse this second time around...

[GoldenHillGuy]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say you may have set the bar too high, and he's afraid of never being able to be good enough. I think the guy a few pages back hit the nail on the head here. When men don't think they can be good enough or are always disappointing their woman, they just back off. They have tried, and got shot down multiple times, and that really hurts a man. Everyone thinks men are tough, strong, no emotions. BLA! When a man really tries, and cares, and puts in effort, only to see the look of disappointment in his woman's eyes, it really hurts. And if she doesn't recognize anything good in his effort, he's not going to keep trying much more.

 

That being said, I don't know your ex, or what he does other than what you say here. But, if you're not getting what you need from the relationship, then you need to move on to someone who can give it to you. I don't think you guys should live together. It's really for the wrong reasons. I did that 'to save money'. LOL. What a disaster! Anyways, I can't offer you anything other than a guy's perspective on things. But the bottom line is, if you're not happy with his efforts, and don't think they'll be good enough long term, then it's time to let go. Don't make him jump through hoops 10 feet off the ground when he is only capable of making a 5 foot jump.

[GoldenHillGuy]

I also think this is why he prefaced this getting back together with the part you didn't like about not expecting too much from him. Remember that? I think what you're seeing now is the exact thing he was afraid of.

 

But......I think he's not being fair about spending all this time with his friends.

[mariposa81]

Thank you so much for the insight from a guy's perspective. This is partly why I place a lot of blame on myself...maybe if I had just excepted his efforts as him doing his best, he would have continued to try.

 

This morning, I basically ended it. But if he really doesn't think he can try anymore, why did he write me the suggestion about moving in, that he knows he loves me but doesn't know why things are this way, and suggested seeing a relationship counselor? Shouldn't he be relieved that he doesn't have to meet the expectations of a relationship now? Why didn't he just let it go?

[GoldenHillGuy]

I can't answer any of your questions. Sorry.

 

But, I do find his behavior weird. Maybe he really just doesn't want to put in the effort. Is it because he doesn't think he can ever keep you happy? Maybe. Or is it because he just doesn't want to put in the effort? Maybe. Only he knows. I just wanted to get my view point out there. I think a few others have expressed the same type of thing. amipushy's posts a bit ago hit on the same thing I wrote above. Anyways, I don't know why he'd want you to move in. Weird. Maybe he thinks if you take it further, or try something NEW he'll be excited again with the relationship. I dunno.

 

Question still is:

Can he make you happy long term? Or will you always be wanting more from him?

[jenny_mcs]

 

This morning, I basically ended it. But if he really doesn't think he can try anymore, why did he write me the suggestion about moving in, that he knows he loves me but doesn't know why things are this way, and suggested seeing a relationship counselor? Shouldn't he be relieved that he doesn't have to meet the expectations of a relationship now? Why didn't he just let it go?

 

Sweetie, some things just don't make sense. This guy did not treat you right in your original relationship. He is following his pattern now- saying/writing letters/emailing a lot of stuff that he either doesn't want to or can't deliver on. Don't beat yourself up over this. You deserve a lot better from a relationship. You were optimistic and gave him a second chance. It didn't work. So now you know- for sure- no matter what he says or writes, he just isn't going to deliver.

[FreedomRing]

Mari,

 

I would say this: don't let his confusion about what he wants/can deliver in a relationship, confuse you about what you ALREADY know YOU want/can deliver in a relationship. I believe someone may have already mentioned this on this thread, or maybe another post, but it really comes down to willingness at this point. You have said in so many words, EXACTLY what you need from him in order to feel appreciated in the relationship, yet he said in return, that AT THIS TIME, he cannot/unwilling to provide that for you..don't settle.

[mariposa81]

 

Question still is:

Can he make you happy long term? Or will you always be wanting more from him?

 

Well, I've envisioned my future with him and I know it doesn't make any sense, but I see us being happy together. He says he loves me, his family loves me, and I guess I've always felt that once he grows out of this immature stage and he's not wanting to get drunk and party all the time, when he has his career and moves out of that college apartment complex and is forced to grow up and have more responsibilities (right now his parents pay all his bills and expenses like food, except his rent and going out), when things are more stable, things will be different. I don't know WHEN that would happen, but I feel like one day that will be the case. I know, I'm stupid for feeling like that and I have no idea where that optimism (though maybe unrealistic optimism) comes from.

 

As far as always wanting more from him...even though my expectations may have been too high, I guess I just wanted a little more than what he gave and for him to try a little longer.

 

I will admit that when I was growing up, my mom always complained constantly about my dad and was always criticizing the things he did saying it wasn't good enough and it could have been better. She did it to my sister and I too when it came to chores, we would do things to help her in the house and she would get mad if they weren't to her standards because she would have to do it over. In the end, her and my dad are still married, but she has resented him for years and is no longer in love with him although they manage to get along most of the time.

 

My biggest fear growing up was that I was going to end up like her (even though she's the most caring, loving, and selfless person I know). So that's one of the big things I'm working through in therapy. I don't want to have a miserable marriage and the fact that he's said this time around that I've made him feel like he can't do anything right hits home because I know what that's like and I've never wanted anyone to feel like that. That's why I've sort of beat myself up over it.

[coloradio]

I think that if you do love him and ignore his letter you might find that you spend a lot of years wondering "what if?"

 

I wish my ex could read this.

[GoldenHillGuy]

I don't want to bring about the wrath of ENA here. I'm not going to suggest what you do. Only you know if he can make you happy long term.

 

But, my ex sounds very much like you. I have no doubt she loved me, but I couldn't do anything good enough no matter what. If I knocked her socks off one time, the next had to be bigger and better or else 'I didn't love her'. It really got to be a drag. I really quit trying not because I didn't love her, but because I was emotionally exhausted from trying and getting told that my efforts weren't good enough. Men want to be women's heros. And if you have in your mind some cheap paperback romantic novel notion of what 'men' are supposed to do to keep you happy, then your man will never be able to live up to your standards, and he'll feel second best. I cannot stress this enough. Men need to have appreciation shown for what they do for you in the name of love, rather than what they didn't do for you. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that men's egos are fragile when it comes to keeping their women happy. That's why you see men just not trying so much. They don't want to go through the hurt of being told they aren't good enough over and over. So you see some married men at work calling their wives B's and saying 'she'll never be satisfied', etc. They're not saying that because they hate their wives, it's just that they never get appreciation for what they do for them.

 

I'm not bashing women, there are plenty of things men could do better as well. No doubt I was not very compassionate and showed my ex I did care about her. But I digress.

 

And I'm not blaming you Mariposa. I just want you to see things from a male point of view.

 

Good luck.

[mariposa81]

I understand what you're saying GoldenHillGuy. And I admit that maybe I focused a little too much on what he could do more of. But it wasn't like I was ungrateful for the things he did do. I showed my appreciation in numerous ways. I never acted like I had an attitude when he tried, or acted like "this is it???" when he would do something for me. My one and only complaint and only issue this whole time has been spending time alone together instead of with his friends all the time. that's something we had agreed to do in the beginning since we had been apart so long. We agreed that it would be best to spend more time alone than with others at first. So at first when we didn't, I would just say something like, "I would really love it if we went out on more dates alone together. I have so much fun with you." He eventually started making me feel like I couldn't mention it at all because he would say, "It's always something with you. I can't do anything right" etc etc. I didn't feel like I was being nit-picky by mentioning it, but maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it at all. But because our priorities are different right now, I guess it was bound to come to a head sooner or later.

[GoldenHillGuy]

Yeah, I admit the guy is being quite selfish with his time. Maybe he just loves the chase.

[charity]

hi mariposa,

 

i am going through almost exactly what you are going through except 4 years and 2 kids later!!! and here was i thinking i was in a unique situation. i came on here cause i felt so confused and desperate and now you have helped me make a very importnat decision.

 

i had all these problems with my man when we first got together so we broke up and after awhile became friends instead. after about a year however he changed and became everything i wanted in a partner and so we got back together and it was great. we were very much in love and very happy. looking back i guess that at that time he had made a conscious decision about what he wanted in life and he decided it was me and a family.he knew exactly what i wanted and needed in a relationship and he did it!! but after a while things changed. i guess it was too big an effort for him and he coulnt keep it up when it didnt come natural to him.

 

like with your bf, he chose his friends over me all the time, he was a happier person around his friends-more animated like you said, he would always socialise after work and just come home and go to bed, on his day off he would find something else to do besides spend time with me and the children, i asked for 1 day a week that would be a family day,he said no problem but it never happened.i felt vey neglected and told him so. i told him i felt that we weren't partners but leading separate lives and it wasnt what i visualized for my life. he said i should appreciate that he doesnt cheat on me and comes home to me evey night. i said that that goes without saying and that that is LEAST that i expect. i do a lot for him and i support him unconditionally and i dont feel like i ask for a lot back.

 

anyway after my second baby i felt very down and i got no support from him. he never wondered WHY i was down, he never tried to fix it. he just avoided coming home more and more. after fights, tension and silences we decided to call it a day. the baby was 3 months old. i was gutted but couldnt continue this way.

 

because of the kids we had to have contact. he wanted to be friends so we talked every day on the phone. i know this is not good but as i still love him i let it happen. then he told me he met somone. i relaized then that he had moved on while i was just hoping that we would get back together like all the other times. i told him that for now i couldnt be his friend and that all we had in common was the kids and any contact we had was to be just regarding them.

 

2 days of no contact and the other day he calls me and tells me he cant let me go. he has to have me in his life ans he wants us to try again. i was instinctivly happy but scared out of my mind.after a lengthy talk it became apparent that he still thinks i made a big deal of the issues we had and he doesnt accept any responsability for the break up. i told him i would think about it.

 

thats how i found this forum. mari, reading your posts has made me see that love is not supposed to be this way. yeah you have to take the bad with the good, but love is not suppossed to make you feel insecure, needy, confused, sad, uninteresting. i love to be with him and that what i want him to feel with me. i dont care if i never hear the words ''i love you'' as long as i see them in his actions. its easy to show love,its the small things that count. when i am needy and sad i am not a good mum and my kids deserve more then that. i know now what i must do, so tomorrow i will tell him that im not gonna try anymore with him. its over.its like chopping off my arm but i have to do it.

 

mari, at least your man did realize where he went wrong and he tried to fix it but it doesnt come natural to him and you have to ask yourself is this the future you want? is it the future he wants? it seems like he only makes you feel special when he REALLY TRIES. its a lot of effort for him to make you happy and i dont know if thats the way it should be. whatever you do figure things out before you have children because believe me it will break your heart 100% when they are involved.

[Zeitgeist]

yeah you have to take the bad with the good, but love is not suppossed to make you feel insecure, needy, confused, sad, uninteresting.

Phenomenal post. I especially agree with this part. The only thing that I would caution is that in this early stage of reconciliation, it's difficult to tell how much of his behavior is his "nature" and how much of it is just him trying to figure out a balance. I agree there are red flags, but sometimes I think false alarms can be raised when we are overly sensitized to them.

 

Bottomline mari, you're the only person who can decide whether he can and will love you in the way you want to be loved. He may actually love you as much as he says, but it doesn't really matter if it's not enough so that you don't feel "...insecure, needy, confused, sad, uninteresting." That's no way to live and emotionally investing further in the relationship will only make it that much harder to bounce back.

[mariposa81]

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation Merkal. I can imagine how much that hurts with children involved. I'm glad to hear that my post helped put things in perspective for you. I'm still trying to figure things out for myself because like, Zeitgeist said, I'm not sure this is his "nature" or if this is just us amidst everything we're experiencing from each other emotionally.

 

Sunday morning (even after what happened on Saturday), he called me and asked if I wanted to get together to watch a movie (I just got a blue ray player the other day). I told him I would and told him I had to run out to get food because I wanted to make dinner first. He asked if I minded making enough for him too. I said no I wouldn't mind. He called several times when I was cooking from the video store asking what movie I wanted to get. We decided on a couple. He came over and when he arrived, I gave him a huge hug and kiss. I could tell it made him feel good (he mentioned in our talk how he felt sort of unwanted because I didn't greet him like I meant it when he would come over...I guess this stemmed from the problems we've been having; I felt like he didn't really want to be with me so it broke down my morale before he even arrived).

 

I could tell the hug made him feel really good. I guess I'm just figuring if this is our last shot, I'm gonna give it my all so at least I can't say I didn't try. We had some wine, ate, he helped me clean up the kitchen and we laid down to watch the movie. We ended up watching both and went to bed afterwards. It was a great night. I had a wonderful time with him.

 

I saw him last night for the last time before he goes home to Los Angeles. He originally told me he wanted to go to dinner together and watch a movie, but he later said he was tired so I brought dinner to his house and we watched tv before going to bed really early. I woke up this morning, got ready for work, gave him a hug while he was still in bed, and left.

 

I'm really sad today. I'm not sure how he really feels or what he really wants to do about us because even though Sunday was great, last night was the last night I'm gonna see him for a month and I'm just really going to miss him. It didn't seem like a big deal to him at all that we're not going to see each other for a month whereas it matters a lot to me. But I know people take things different ways. Also, he's always and I mean ALWAYS had a date on New Year's Eve for the last 5 or 6 years (before me, with previous girlfriends) and since he doesn't want me there this year, he may find someone else to be with. That's me being paranoid and ridiculous probably. Anyway, just thought I'd update you all. I wish I knew what was going to happen with us. I just can't stop thinking about it all.

 

Thanks to everyone for the posts.