No contact with ex for 2 1/2 months and yesterday I find a letter at my door...what should I do?

[einsteins_girl]

Ugh, I feel like such a moron. Although it is funny that what I wrote, in a way, could apply to so many of us. LOL! But, yeah, definitely not directed at you. Sorry for any confusion.

 

-walks away while shaking head at self-

[einsteins_girl]

Hi Mariposa! Hope everything's going okay! You've been quiet lately...

[hulk7280]

Hi Mariposa! Hope everything's going okay! You've been quiet lately...

 

im sure its because everything is going so well she doesnt need to geton here anymore! honestly i cant wait until the day i no longer have to go to these forums..

[mariposa81]

Hi everyone,

 

Well, it's been almost 3 months since my ex and I started seeing each other again.

 

As I previously said in my earlier posts, in the beginning, he was very helpful with me getting adjusted to my new home, came over often even without me asking, did special things, and seemed very dedicated to seeing me smile. But I haven't felt so good about things for a little over the last month.

 

The guys he hangs out with are guys in law school who he met during the summer, so he's known them for about 4 months now. Rarely does he ask me on dates, unless prompted or initiated by me. When he does ask me to do something with him, not only is it with him, but with "the guys" as well. For example, he'll say, "Me and the guys are grilling out...you're more than welcome to join us"..."me and the guys are going out tonight...do you wanna come?"...."me and the guys are watching the game on tv, do you wanna come over?" I've mentioned that I don't mind hanging out with his friends, but I would also like to spend just as much time if not more doing the things he mentioned he wanted to do with me when we first started dating again, one-on-one.

 

I no longer live accross the street like I used to. I now live about 8 miles away so it takes him approximately 18 minutes to get to my house and me to get to his. However, now, sometimes he will act like it's too far for him. The few times we have gone out, he'll want me to meet him at the restaurant or come meet him at his house. He'll never suggest coming to pick me up. The one time he did come pick me up in the last month or so, it's because I convinced him to. He said it "makes no sense" for him to come pick me up when we could just meet there because I'm 15 minutes away now. Is that too much to ask? Not even everytime, but some of the time??

 

Things are different than they were when we first began communicating again. He made me feel like the most special person in the world and told me how committed he was to making me feel special, how much I meant to him, etc. He brought me flowers once, never made me feel like coming over was too much to ask, we went to dinner together a few times back in the beginning of September alone together and would have the best times, we even made dinner together a few times here at my new house. Now it seems like his priorities are (like before when we dated) his friends, whom he's known for such a short period of time. He sees them about 4 or 5 times a week (they all live in the same apartment complex) and goes out with them at least twice a week. I'm lucky to get one night alone with him.

 

I show him how grateful I am when he does do something that makes me feel good, but lately since things have changed, when i try to talk to him about things that are bothering me like he told me he wanted me to, he says, "You make me feel like I can't do anything right...nothing's good enough for you." Yesterday he had Thanksgiving dinner at my house with my family and was supposed to stay the night at my house and we were going to watch a movie. But he went home because he had made plans to get up early with his roommate to shop (he actually never did because it was too cold).

 

So today I told him I could come over and we could watch it tonight at his house since he left last night. He said if we did, we would have to watch it early if I wanted to because he wanted to go out tonight. It really upset me. I wish I felt as important as I feel like his newfound friends are.

 

He sent me this really long text message telling me how he feels like he doesn't know how to please me and how he doesn't feel like he can meet "my" standards. It came all out of order in my phone so I tried to call him back, but because he has told me that sometimes he doesn't feel his phone vibrate or sometimes he doesn't have reception and it doesn't ring, I called about 7 times. He called back and said, "what the hell is wrong with you????" and chastised me for calling so many times.

 

I was upset crying and told him that it's not fair for him to expect me not to have any expectations from him; that all of my expectations come from HIM because they are all standards that he set for himself. It's not like I gave him a list and told him to do these things or else. These are things he came up with on his own while we were broken up. I told him that it's not like he doesn't know what to do because I felt so special in the beginning, that if he couldn't meet his own expectations than he should have never told me he was going to dedicate his all to trying in letters, cards, etc. He didn't say a word when I was in tears on the phone. I felt stupid for crying so I let him go and apologized for calling so many times. He called me back a few minutes later to ask if I was going to the mall to let him know. I said I wasn't planning on going, so he said okay and we hung up. That was the last time I talked to him today.

 

I'm just really sad. I feel like he doesn't care. He makes me feel like I'm asking too much. That maybe I should just shutup about it all. But I'm not expecting anything more than what he had told me he was going to do. We both said we were going to try so I expected things to get better over time, not worse. I feel like maybe he doesn't understand how much this hurts me. I just want a normal relationship where we spend time together once in a while, where it's not forced and we both make each other feel good.

 

I don't really much know what to do at this point. Are my expectations too high? Thanks for listening...

[mariposa81]

Oh...and that weekend I wrote about on 10-5-08 where we were supposed to go away together?? We never went. He assumed it wasn't important to me because we didn't talk specifics that week. Also, there was a big college game that he wanted to go to that Saturday. He said we could go after if I wanted to but i just said forget it because we would have driven 2 hours one way for less than two days and wouldn't have gotten there until late Saturday night.

[Batya33]

Mariposa, how old is he again? I ask because I know that especially when a guy is in his 20s/early 30s and is still in school, bonding with the friends, nights out with the guys can be a huge priority (that's what I found when I was dating back then and dating guy in grad school - and when I was in grad school it was like that too). Having said that, none of that is relevant if he promised to make you a priority and to make one on one time with you a priority.

 

How about declining the evenings out with his friends once in awhile and saying nicely, with no "tone" "I'd prefer to spend one on one time with you, so let me know when that works for you and if it works for me we'll see each other"

 

I'm not so concerned about him picking you up unless there's a safety issue - but, to each her own, and I mean that sincerely - just my opinion.

 

I feel a certain amount of sympathy for him because partly it sounds like he's trying to burn the candle at both ends -make you happy but also keep in the loop of the whole grad school social scene. There was a time when I would have had more tolerance for that sense of not wanting to miss out on any party, hang out, game, etc. But I can totally relate to your having had enough, especially since you two have been back and forth so many times.

 

Good luck.

[diamond78]

I've been wondering how it was going for you.

 

What I don't understand is how and why it's so easy for him to make time for his friends, but he finds it such a challenge to make time for you?? and to make matters worse he's only known these friends for 4 months? Why is he treating them as if they are more important than you? I don't think it's an extremely difficult thing to balance out hanging with friends and spending time with a SO. People do it all the time.

 

I just don't understand it.

 

I would let him know that you had done all the necessay things to move on from this relationship to only have him try to convince you that he would do all the necessary things to be a better boyfriend. Although he was doing the right things in the beginning, he has already reverted back to his old ways. While his intentions may have been sincere, it is clear that he isn't really willing to change for the long-term.

 

If you had a problem with this behavior before, why would he expect you to all of a sudden be ok with it now?? It's the same problem occurring again, so you're going to have the same reaction of disappointment and dissatisfaction.

 

Your expectations are not too high...It seems all you really want is to be able to spend some alone time with him and not have to compete with his friends week after week. How can you two ever develop a proper partnership if you don't spend time together alone and do things as a couple?

 

I think he puts most of his effort into his friends and is quite lazy when it comes to maintaining a relationship.

 

I think it's time to re-evaluate again if this guy is the right one for you.

 

oh, I also don't like he is turning this whole thing on you when he was the one claiming he was going to do this and that to make the relationship better and he's still not doing it!!

[amipushy]

I have to admit that you do seem to have high expectations from him.

 

I personally don't see what your problem is though but you seem to overreact to the slightest thing and I think him just saying ok and hanging up is a reaction to your overreaction and he tried not to make things worse, or he maybe even felt you blamed him so he felt bad and left.

 

Have you tried reading your post form his point of view or an objective point of view? Maybe if you tried you would see that he's a pretty stable and happily living life not knowing what to do about his gf who he can't seem to please. Sorry.

[homeagain]

Mari, I have followed your thread for a while now. The tone of your posts changes considerably in terms of your optimism level about him. It doesn't sound like he is upholding all the promises he made to you in his poem/letter to you. Only you can decide if you can live with what he is putting into your relationship, but from your most recent posts... it just doesn't sound like you're very happy or very satisfied. I think you deserve all the things he promised to give you, so if you find yourself wanting more or wishing he had lived up to the high bar he himself set... I think that's fair of you, and also in your best interest. However, like I said before, I don't think I should tell you what to do here because ultimately only you can decide that he is or isn't for you. I can help you assess whether your concerns are valid. Are they? For sure! Is his recent behavior childish or selfish? Yes. Does it seem like he's being incredibly selfish/stupid about the commute to your house? Yes. Do I think your expectations are too high here? ABSOLUTELY NOT, especially since he promised to build you castles in the sky to get you back. Should he have backed out of a romantic getaway or should you only see him for dates around "the guys"? You know the answer to this -- no. Do I think he should be more proactive about showing he loves and cares for you? Yes, it was an explicit promise by him to you when you broke the NC to talk to him. Do I think he can change? I don't know him, but it sounds like he is starting to revert to patterns you thought were hurtful and destructive before, and that makes me really concerned for you.

 

You obviously love him and are drawn to him for some reason. You took him back for a good reason. You're not being crazy or asking for too much. Only you know where the line is on this for yourself and what you're willing to live with. I know how much it hurts to admit someone we love has disappointed us, especially in terms of reconciliation. My thoughts are with you as you work things out... Keep us all updated, I think everyone here is cheering for you to have the best happy ending you can have on this one, whether it is with or without your bf.

[mariposa81]

He's 25 going on 26. I can understand him wanting to go out with his friends and i don't expect to occupy all of his time. But it seems that I can't even get one night when the weekend comes alone with him. He did promise to make me more of a priority than he did in the past, but it seems like lately for a little over the last month, that's not the case. I have tried what you said, without using a "tone" and he still insists on inviting me to be with him with "the guys", unless of course, they're out of town. It's like that about 80% of the time.

 

Last Thursday night, he said he wanted me to come over to watch a movie. He said he usually goes out with the guys Thursdays too, but this particular night, he said he would rather spend time alone with me. I was thrilled about getting to spend this time with him, cuddling on the couch and watching the movie. But when I get to his house, he says, "we're going to go to Jeremy's to watch the movie with the guys because they haven't seen it yet...if that's cool with you." I told him I would rather watch it alone with him (I was in my sleepwear and wasn't up to going to another apartment building in the cold to watch the movie with 6 other guys). We ended up just watching it with his roommate, which was fine. If I had left it up to him, we would have watched the movie, yet again, with the boys.

 

Things are different from what they were at first. I don't know what to do.

[diamond78]

 

How about declining the evenings out with his friends once in awhile and saying nicely, with no "tone" "I'd prefer to spend one on one time with you, so let me know when that works for you and if it works for me we'll see each other"

 

 

I agree with this tactic!! I actually tried something similar with my Ex (I was in competition with his work schedule; not his friends)...I told him I would no longer request to see each other and that I was going to leave it in his hands. If he wants to see me then he has to be the one to initiate. I noticed that alot of times whenever I did the initiating that the plans would fall through which would leave me frustrated.

 

So, I decided to stop fighting that battle and give him the reigns. I honestly thought I wouldn't see him that much, but it turned out to be the exact opposite. He agreed to the terms and he began requesting to see me on a regular basis and if for some reason our schedule conflicted with each other HE would be the one to come up with a backup plan....whereas before I would be the one trying to make it happen.

 

It relieved alot of stress in the relationship as far as making time to see each other, and I only wish I had done it sooner. He realized that we weren't going to see each other if he didn't arrange it, and it was far easier for him to make plans with me based on his schedule since his schedule wasn't as flexible as mine.

 

 

let us know how it works out for you!

[Batya33]

There are some who would advise to sit down and "negotiate" a compromise with him - so that you two have at least "x" number of date nights a week - one on one. For me that wouldn't exactly work because I would want the guy to "want" to be with me one on one not just because of our agreement. How about a heart to heart where you tell him that you don't want him to do the one on one time just to appease you but that you don't find your standards unrealistic, and that he needs to give serious thought to why he has this need to spend so much time with the guys (sorry, I don't really buy that it's because he feels such a connection to them - I think it's more just not wanting to miss out).

 

I am not surprised at how young he is. The law school guy I dated many years ago was 22 (so, a bit younger) but between his college friends and law school friends, it took a long time before he would even spend weekend time with me because both nights were usually guys nights out. He eventually outgrew it but we had many arguments/conflicts over it.

 

I do understand that he is reneging on his promise to an extent and that it's not just "he spends too much time with the guys". My sense right now is that he is not ready for a serious relationship if it will involve more than let's say three one on one dates per month especially if his buddies are not in serious relationships. That could change but I think that it will require lighting a fire under him - whether that's by making him miss you or having that heart to heart I mentioned above.

[mariposa81]

I have to admit that you do seem to have high expectations from him.

 

I personally don't see what your problem is though but you seem to overreact to the slightest thing and I think him just saying ok and hanging up is a reaction to your overreaction and he tried not to make things worse, or he maybe even felt you blamed him so he felt bad and left.

 

Have you tried reading your post form his point of view or an objective point of view? Maybe if you tried you would see that he's a pretty stable and happily living life not knowing what to do about his gf who he can't seem to please. Sorry.

 

I don't feel I'm expecting any more than the expectations he set for himself. If you'll scroll back and read the letter I posted from him, about the promises he made to me, and how much he wanted to try, that will explain the basis on my expectations.

 

When I spoke to him earlier today, even though I was in tears, I wasn't yelling at all. I just felt defeated. And him saying "okay" when I said I actually wasn't up to going to the mall, we were just having a regular conversation. So no, there was no overreaction there.

 

I've tried to see things from his point of view and all I have to say about that is that I would have never promised someone something, if I wasn't sincere about consistently trying my best to follow through with my word.

[mariposa81]

I totally agree with you Batya. I really want him to want to spend time with me one-on-one, not just because I said something about it or because we agree on it. It makes it sound like it's a sacrifice away from the guys. I don't really see what's so hard about it. Why it's such a necessity for him to spend so much time with them. They usually go out Thursday nights, some Fridays, and every Saturday night. They also grill out on Sundays when they watch football together and he usually plays basketball with them a couple of times a week.

 

Even after our earlier conversation, that's what he's doing right now. Getting ready to go out with the guys.

 

I talked to my sister a little bit ago and she said how yesterday, when she was talking to him, he said he wishes he had never come to North Carolina for his residency. How if he could do it all over again, he would have gone to New York. That coming here wasn't worth it. I know he was talking about the time his spends in one program vs others (the North Carolina program is one of the best in the country and is 3 years, while the NY program was 2 years), but I have to admit, it stung a little to hear her say that he said that.

[amipushy]

I don't feel I'm expecting any more than the expectations he set for himself. If you'll scroll back and read the letter I posted from him, about the promises he made to me, and how much he wanted to try, that will explain the basis on my expectations.

 

Bingo!

 

I did read that, in fact I posted for you to go for it. But realistically... What man can possibly live up to that? No man!

 

You are wrong to expect him to because as you are finding out its not realistic and its not going to happen and you will be forever disappointed. Why don't you try seeing him as a man who felt like that inside instead and give him some slack?

[mariposa81]

Bingo!

 

I did read that, in fact I posted for you to go for it. But realistically... What man can possibly live up to that? No man!

 

You are wrong to expect him to because as you are finding out its not realistic and its not going to happen and you will be forever disappointed. Why don't you try seeing him as a man who felt like that inside instead and give him some slack?

 

So I should just say, "Oh well. He promised it, but even though he say he was going to try and he did good for a few weeks, it's okay for him to revert back to his old ways because it's not realistic." If he wasn't capable, he would have never done ANY of it. But he was consistent for several weeks so I know he's capable which doesn't make it unrealistic because he proved he could do it. A lot of thought went into this before deciding to give it a second shot. I don't think I'm wrong for expecting a little more the second time around. If that's the case, I never should have left to begin with.

 

I have to admit I'm a little offended that you say I'm the one who's wrong for expecting it even though HE said it repeatedly, not just in the letter that I posted, but in two other occasions since then that I didn't write about. That I should "cut him some slack" even though at almost 3 months in, he's not even trying to live up to what he promised. I don't think it's unrealistic for someone to do things to make someone they love happy. I actually don't think what he wrote is unrealistic. It's not unrealistic for someone to make their significant other a priority. And if it really is unrealistic, maybe he's the one wrong for promising something "unrealistic" in the first place.

[homeagain]

what you are asking for isn't unreasonable or unrealistic, or it shouldn't be. you're not being too demanding here if you're asking him to meet your relationship needs. it may, however, be unreasonable or unrealistic behavior to expect from *him* on a consistent basis because for whatever reason he can't or won't give it to you.

[mariposa81]

what you are asking for isn't unreasonable or unrealistic, or it shouldn't be. you're not being too demanding here if you're asking him to meet your relationship needs. it may, however, be unreasonable or unrealistic behavior to expect from *him* on a consistent basis because for whatever reason he can't or won't give it to you.

 

I see what you're saying. From the discussions we had when we first decided to give it a shot, I just wanted to see some effort on his part. He said that's partly what was lacking the first time and he thinks differently now and he saw how he didn't make me a priority. I never expected him to be perfect because I'm far from it too (if I was perfect, I wouldn't be in therapy still), but I saw him really putting forth the effort and it made me really happy because I felt like he really meant what he said. But then somewhere along the line, everytime he asked me out, he would invite me out with him and the guys. Then it turned into him not asking me for one-on-one time at all (unless I mentioned how I'd like to spend more one-on-one time with him...basically unless prompted by me), then the comments about how I lived "too far away", him flaking out a couple of times when i've made plans, etc.

[amipushy]

Reality is that nobody can live up to what they feel in ther hearts.

 

I have sung countless heartfelt love songs and even written poems to a man that I loved with all my heart but in the next minute he irritate me and I couldn't wait to be alone. Doesnt mean I didnt love him though, I just could never live up to my own expectations or how and what I felt inside and for him to expect me to would have meant disappointment for him too. He just accepted that it was something I felt and meant at that moment and loved me for it.

 

When it comes down to it....You have two choices, you either see him as he really is and compromise knowing how he feels or you move on.

[homeagain]

Reality is that nobody can live up to what they feel in ther hearts.

 

I have sung countless heartfelt love songs and even written poems to a man that I loved with all my heart but in the next minute he irritate me and I couldn't wait to be alone. Doesnt mean I didnt love him though, I just could never live up to my own expectations or how and what I felt inside and for him to expect me to would have meant disappointment for him too. He just accepted that it was something I felt and meant at that moment and loved me for it.

 

When it comes down to it....You have two choices, you either see him as he really is and compromise knowing how he feels or you move on.

it seems like in a healthy relationship, one person should be able to ask the other person to meet their emotional needs without it being "asking too much". she was pretty clear about what she expected when she started this a second time with him. being momentarily annoyed or frustrated is different than being unwilling to give the other person the more important effort and emotional support that they were crystal clear about needing. he offered to meet that, i don't think she did anything too over the top to expect him to live up to his word to try with her. that being said, if she knows she's unhappy, she can't force him to put the effort she wants in... so she has to decide what her threshold for pain is on this if she knows for sure he won't give her what she wants.

[amipushy]

Who can possibly live up to that is what I'm saying.

[homeagain]

i think what she is saying, is how does someone make such grand promises and then so obviously bomb on them so soon? she's not mad that he isn't perfect, she's upset that he seems to be putting in so little after promising so much (or that is my read).

[mariposa81]

Who can possibly live up to that is all I'm saying?

 

It wasn't the poem per se that I expect him to live up to. It was the promises, compromises and agreements in the letter that followed and the numerous conversations afterwards as well. He always has written poems to verbalize what's in his heart, it's the conversations and communication afterwards that really means the most. He wrote the poem for it to simply be that: poetic. Do you really think I take the poem in a literal sense??? Really??

[mariposa81]

i think what she is saying, is how does someone make such grand promises and then so obviously bomb on them so soon? she's not mad that he isn't perfect, she's upset that he seems to be putting in so little after promising so much (or that is my read).

 

Exactly Homeagain.

[amipushy]

Like I said...When it comes down to it....You have two choices, you either see him as he really is and compromise knowing how he feels or you move on.