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No contact with ex for 2 1/2 months and yesterday I find a letter at my door...what should I do?


mariposa81

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Honestly, I would cut my losses now....He can't fully commit to you now and he isn't even fully accepting of the notion of you two being in a relationship many years from now.

 

He's already talking about bailing 5 years from now. That is too much instability to be worried about.....Knowing what you know now, you will be in a constant state of fear and apprehension just 'waiting' for the day that he finally breaks things off even if he doesn't.

 

This battle has become quite tedious.

 

and I hate how he says that writing the letter basically didn't give him the outcome he wanted. I believe that the purpose of the letter was to get you back, but that he wasn't 100% serious about putting in the necessary effort and work to regain your trust and to help rebuild a healthy relationship. Why would you not have expectations after he made all those grand gestures and promises in that letter??

 

This guy has an issue with accountability. He doesn't want to be held accountable for the breakdown of the relationship, he doesn't want to be held accountable for making some of the needed changes and sacrifices for making this relationship work, he doesn't want to be held accountable for what he wrote in that letter, etc...etc...etc... The way he left his ex-girlfriend Lauren by just disappearing one day. He couldn't and didn't want to face the accountability there. His constant concerns about things being labeled as 'his fault' is another example of this....

 

He has a bad habit of saying one thing, but then turning around and doing quite another. Personally, I would never feel comfortable or safe in a relationship with someone like this. Someone described him perfectly by saying he is quite flakely. He's too wishy-washy for me and you will be living in a constant state of frustration and confusion hoping for the day that the light will finally come on for him.

 

I'm not so sure it's worth the wait anymore....

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I think you have now reached the point that you should walk away - because if you don't any relationship with him is going to be uncomfortable if not painful and you will never have any peace of mind knowing that he loves you or wants you in the way you need to be wanted and loved.

 

Again, I agree with DN; I think he's made it pretty clear that he does NOT want to be tied to a relationship right now, which ends in a long-term commitment -- i.e. marriage.

 

Honestly, I think if he really wanted to stay together but was conflicted about the concept of the "forever and ever," he could have phrased what he said in a way, which was sensitive to your position but at the same time, convey his devotion to you.

 

I agree with what someone else said above -- that he essentially seems to be spinning wheels to create hypothetical situations which all point to your relationship NOT working out.

 

In my humble opinion, to say what he said, after all that has happened between you two, is a cop-out. I have to wonder if he wasnt ready to give the commitment, why he came back at all. But I suppose that's neither here nor there.

 

 

I think you've reached a point where you have to make the best decision FOR YOURSELF, and not necessarily the relationship.

 

And you have to make the decision, fully determined to stick to your decision.

 

Because you love him, it will be easy to waver -- hey we've all been there BUT you really have to decide: 1) stay with someone (you love) who makes you feel like you've tied him down to a relationship he wasn't ready for OR 2) decide that this relationship has run its course and start the healing process

 

Neither are easy options and both will bring about pain and hurt.

 

I hope you lean on your friends and family for support and make the right decision for yourself.

 

Hugs to you. Hang in there.

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Sorry for the multiple post but one more thing: I know how you've tried to stay strong, swallowed your pride and forgave him for many many things, and put up with a lot because you love him.

 

I learned the hard way that in the end, it doesnt really matter how much slack you cut them IF they themselves dont want to grab that chance you offer them. More often than not, they take it for granted and sometimes act worse bc they know that you will forgive them one more time for one more thing.

 

At a certain point, you have to say, enough is enough; as much as I love this person, this really is the final straw. It takes a lot of courage to say that because you love the person so much BUT you got to recognize that you must love yourself too and you should not perpetually place yourself in a mountain of hurt, which you can have avoided.

 

Please take care.

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I agree with DN. Look, if you want to date him casually, believe you can detach from the "forever" idea and actively socialize and be open to other possibilities, sure why not, have some fun. Otherwise I would walk away. He's full of words, not actions.

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Thank you guys for even still reading...I'm sure you guys are getting just as exhausted as I am with this...

 

So he called back after his session with his therapist. He tells me that he's expecting a call from his doctor in LA so he has to pick up that call when it comes through.

 

In tears, he asks if he can just talk for a while and me listen because lately it's been so hard for him to express his feelings to me. This is what he said:

 

First of all, he loves me. He knows that he loves me with all of his heart. That I've made him feel so loved and that he knows he wants to be with me. He said he doesn't know why his actions aren't in unison with his feelings and that he knows he needs to be doing more things to show me that he loves me. He said he's always done things for the short term benefit and that's why he's always focused on "having fun" instead of focusing on the longterm, building a bond with me and doing things that make our bond stronger. He said that this is where his focus should have been instead of putting me on the backburner so much. I said, "But it's always been like that with you." He said in tears, "I know, I know." I told him that I hate to say this, but I've even considered the possibility that maybe he's been selfish for so long, he's not even sure what other way to be.

 

He told me that he doesn't know when he stopped showing appreciation and showing me that I was a priority. He said that in the beginning, for whatever reason, i let him so he took advantage of that and he's sorry for it.

 

He also mentioned that he's felt so undesired and so unattractive to me; that for example, in the beginning, he would come over and I'd be so happy to see him when he arrived. He said that when we were broken up, girls he dated that don't mean ANYTHING to him would be so excited to see him when he walked into the room, but that it doesn't seem that way with me. That the person who means the most in the world to him, doesn't even act happy to see him.

 

I told him that i didn't want to be compared to girls that mean nothing to him. He said he wasn't comparing me to them, he was comparing me to myself; to how I was in the beginning. I told him that it stemmed from my feeling like he would rather be doing something else than spending time with me (evident in his flaking out occasionally). That I would be the only person excited about spending time together so it would bring down my morale when he would come around sometimes. I also brought up the fact that he NEVER would seem thrilled to see me when I would come over in the way he was talking that he wanted me to. If he was watching tv when I arrived, he would just say, "hey babe" and continue to stay seated. He said, "I know." I told him that why does he expect someone to come to the door with hugs and kisses and smiles when he doesn't even do that himself? He said, "I know. you're right."

 

He said that he wanted to apologize for ever hurting me by doing things like that. He said that he knows he's been very selfish.

 

He asked me why did I love him. What was it about him that I loved so much. He said, just tell me whatever comes to your mind. I talked about his drive, being family-oriented, I mentioned some specific little things he does that makes me smile..etc. He said, "but you could find someone else that would be that way." I told him, "you could find someone else to do what I do too." He said, "No, it's not about what you DO for me. I don't think I will ever find someone who loves me the way you do. I feel like you would stop at nothing to see me smile and show me you love me. it's not fair that I don't show you the way I should. I want to change that and need to change that. I don't want anyone else. Why do you even want to be with me?" (*tears*)

 

I told him, he was right. I said, "why DO I want to be with someone who says they love me so much but doesn't even know how to consistently show this love?" I was honest...I told him that I guess the thing that's made me stay around for this long is the fact that there's a little part of me that holds onto the hope that maybe one day, he'll actually consistently show me how much I mean to him and that he'll show me that I'm a priority like in a normal relationship; that one day, his words WILL match his actions.

 

But I told him that I was tired and exhausted with this whole thing. That the part that held out hope wasn't so dominant anymore and that I would find relief in being out of this situation. That we either do this for real, or he needs to go away because I'm sick of the waivering.

 

He said, "If we do decide to do this again, can we focus more on the positive instead of the negative?" I told him that of course we can, but I need to know that just because I mention something that concerns me he's not going to completely quit trying.

 

I told him that in September and October, he was only seeing it as "him trying" instead of understanding where I was coming from with wanting to spend more quality time together and taking responsibility for where he was coming up short. He took it as criticism when I was only voicing what I needed. I said that if I taken this same approach with him in the past with regard to putting effort into the relationship, I would have stopped trying a long time ago because of the unappreciation he often showed me. He said he understood where I was coming from and that I was right.

 

He took the call from his doctor in LA and called me back.

 

After talking to me a little about what the doctor told him, he said, "the bottom line is this: I love you with all my heart. I want to be with you. I want to be committed to you in the way that you need and start showing you that you truly are a priority to me. I want to start taking your feelings into consideration and prove to you how much I love you. I have indeed been thinking a lot about it over the last 2 weeks and I just spoke to my psychologist about things now. I know that's what I want and I know what I need to do. If that's what you're still interested in..."

 

I paused for a long time. I told him that just the other week, he was so unsure. I told him that I don't want it to be something that he decides on a whim, that I want him to be certain. That I don't want it to be because he's back in North Carolina and not used to being without me. He said that definitely wasn't the reason, but he understood my concerns.

 

He said he hoped that we could get together in a few days and talk about things.

 

I said that if we really give it a fair shot, we could be together for a long long time; that if that idea scared him, then that should tell him he's not ready. I told him that just 2 weeks or so ago, he said he needed time to get things straightened out. I told him I wanted him to really think about it so he has no doubts, no uncertainties about what he wants because he needs to really be able to step up to the plate this time.

 

We both had to go, so before getting off he told me how much he really does love me. I said "i love you too." We said we'd talk soon and hung up.

 

IF (and that's a big IF right now) we and I (because I do have to think about myself at this point) decide to do this based on him being certain he's serious about us, THIS IS THE LAST CHANCE. I'm not afraid to walk away and if I've learned anything, it's that I won't go through this again. I'm taking this conversation for face value. I'm not taking it to heart like I would have in the past which, in my case, is a really good thing. I'm no longer won over by his words of intent...it's about action now.

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Sorry, mari but I had to read his letter again. He said, he was seeing a relationship psychologist before all this, correct? The thing that has me scartching my head is that he wrote this heart felt letter. It looks genuine! Everyone agree? That's the reason why you tried again. You thought he got his act together and was ready to give it his ALL. The letter states he is READY and is WILLING to give it HIS ALL for YOU and YOU ONLY!

 

You guys get back to give it another shot..cool! Things seem to be looking good. Oh, Oh..he is starting to go back to his old habits, etc, etc (maybe because he has you again?). During his trip he had LOADS of time to think and was at a point where HE wanted to initiate NC and not even consider your feelings! Seems like it's all about him at this point. So, you are ready to go NC, AGAIN for 1 month. Yahoo..not.

 

He gets back from from the holidays. He calls you up and wants to get together, watch a movie, dinner, cuddle, etc..whatever. Everything is great, he thinks. Whatever happened to NC for 1 month? He says, huh? Did I say that? He's trying to hide and not take responsibilty for his actions.

 

At this point YOU are saying, I can't do this anymore! You let him know how you are truly feeling and everything at this point is flowing out of your system. BTW, good for you for digging deep for your inner strength.

 

This is where it gets interesting...He is seeing how serious you are now. You're letting him know that this isn't going to work out the way he is treating this relationship...in other words, you are ready to walk (you already gave us enough details so I won't repeat them all). You are putting your foot down..BAM! I'm sure he was in panick mode! Believe it! Him crying on the phone says it all.

 

Now, he is scrambling to go see a therapist, and saying EVERYTHING that was already in the letter, AGAIN. I just don't understand him! He changes his mind from going NC to "I can't live without you Mari" in very little time.

 

I'll tell you what he is consistent at.. changing his feelings for you! Sorry, hun.

 

I'm not telling you to kick him to the curb, but how many more chances are you going to give him? Think about it and do what you think is best for, Mari.

 

This time around the crash can me devastating. That's my opionion. I'd be terrified trying again with my gf knowing she can change how she feels about US at any given time.

 

I sincerely wish you the best and hope for peace and happiness for you, hun. Bless you in abundance!

 

gee

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^^^ yeah, i agree. he seems so full of 'heartfelt letters' but then tells you he can't talk to you for a month, and he's just a flip-flopper! going back and forth between calling you the love of his life to telling you he doesn't know if he wants a future for sure with you. what is up with that? it's just so selfish.

 

"No, it's not about what you DO for me. I don't think I will ever find someone who loves me the way you do. I feel like you would stop at nothing to see me smile and show me you love me. it's not fair that I don't show you the way I should. I want to change that and need to change that. I don't want anyone else. Why do you even want to be with me?" (*tears*)

 

this reminded me of a conversation i had with a bf many years ago. i asked him why he was with me, when he was so critical of me. he said because i loved him and made him feel loved, because i took care of him, etc..... none of his answers were, 'because you are so talented and beautiful and smart....etc...." all his answers were about him. i wonder if your guy is like that too. he likes you because of how you treat him, but not necessarily because of who you are???

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Wait.....................who the hell is Lauren????

 

I dunno Mari. Seems he keeps 'sucking you in' with his crying and crap. LOL. I just dunno anymore.

 

Me either!!!

 

Lauren is an ex-girlfriend. They lived together, he was in love with her, but (according to what he told me a long time ago) he moved out before he came to North Carolina for his residency. She didn't see it coming. He did it because they had only been dating for 10 months and he felt like he needed to get over it before he moved out here for 3 years because he didn't want to do long distance with her. That's it in a nutshell. Don't worry...she's nobody who's relevant to what's going on now, lol.

 

 

Gee-- He started seeing a relationship therapist when I broke up with him last summer, so he's been seeing one for about 6 months now.

 

You definitely put it very very clearly. GREAT summary of the chain of events! I'm feeling the same way. I also feel like he's really only consistent with being indecisive in general. Even if deep down, the fact that he loves me doesn't change, he has a push-pull when it comes to me: when he's about to lose me, he realizes where he's come up short and wants to do what it takes to be with me so he doesn't lose me. But when I'm in his life, he takes my presense for granted and doesn't keep up his end of the bargain.

 

He needs to know this. How do I know he's not going to do this again? How am I going to know he's going to take it seriously THIS time when he wasn't ready and willing to keep it up last time?? This is why I haven't agreed to anything yet. I just don't know if I can trust it.

 

A small part of me is interested in seeing if he means it, but Ughhh...I don't know if it's worth it if he doesn't.

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this reminded me of a conversation i had with a bf many years ago. i asked him why he was with me, when he was so critical of me. he said because i loved him and made him feel loved, because i took care of him, etc..... none of his answers were, 'because you are so talented and beautiful and smart....etc...." all his answers were about him. i wonder if your guy is like that too. he likes you because of how you treat him, but not necessarily because of who you are???

 

 

This is a good point. He's stated many times though that he loves me because I'm beautiful, loving, family-oriented, career-driven, etc... But I've never even thought this way...that maybe he does love me because of how I treat him and how much I love him, not because of WHO I am.

 

Maybe that's why he waivers so much...because that type of love isn't enough..???

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IMHO - walk.

 

Everytime you put your foot down, he plays the same card. Heartfelt pleas of love.

 

He was confused - then he saw his shrink and now he's not. He's been seeing the shrink for 6 months!! Why suddenly just work it out now??

 

Even if you get back together properly, you will always doubt him, waiting for him to do a 'Lauren'.

 

He's basically given you a verbal version of his letter. You've tried based on that. Move along, nothing new to see here.

 

Its hard, and I'll keep responding no matter what you do, but if you want an opinion - enough is enough.

 

Take care

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While I am not a fan of the advice "it shouldn't be this hard" there is some truth to that. Mari, you're getting bogged down in psychobabble/overanalysis/overthinking/verbage. He is grasping at the straws of issues that were there from the start or early on - and other old issues - sex, your different ethnic backgrounds, etc etc. Excuses excuses. There is an appeal to that - right - we're supposed to think that relationships are soooo complex, soooo complicated so that if we throw around big words, psychobabble that's supposed to be productive.

 

Please stop getting caught up in all that crap. Because in this case it is (not saying it always is - I also believe that relationship therapy and therapy can be extremely valuable in certain situations) but try to step back and think about this in the simple terms you articulated before - or that someone did and you agreed with.

 

Is he committed to you and to the relationship? That's it, that's the only question he needs to answer. He knows - he's probably memorized - what that means to you in minute detail - you know it too - no need to talk more about that. As I think DN advised, if the answer is yes, cool, if not you move on until and unless he can say yes (and you move on such that you don't take him back unless it's from a position of strength).

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Hey again,

 

Although I recognize that this might not be an easy decision to make for you, it seems (to me, at least) that your coping mechanisms are quite similar.

 

HIM: He doesnt hear what he wants from you (i.e. "yes, let's take things slow and be more casual while you think things through"), so he drowns you in confusing words and hypothetical situations regarding issues that were there from the get-go (as Batya points out above).

 

If these were issues so troubling to him, why did he "come back" without resolving them?

 

To *me,* it's also very strange that he seems almost "surprised" by the whole long-term commitment issue -- where did he actually think this relationship was going to go, considering the duration/seriousness of your relationship before?

 

Even though people say when they reconcile, they should think of the relationship as starting anew (and I agree) BUT wouldnt it be fair to say that he was evoking the old relationship by addressing all his past wrong-doings and reiterating how much he loves you -- i.e. he was thinking of this "new" relationship as a continuation of the "old" one but with improvements?

 

HOWEVER, I see you handle the situation in a comparably indecisive manner (sorry for the bluntness).

 

Putting aside that this must be a difficult decision to make for you, didnt you give him an ultimatum of sorts recently? That he has to give you a direct "yes," or a "no" answer, and everything that falls in-between should be considered a "no"?

 

And yet, since you did not hear what you wanted ("yes, I want to be with you and I promise to invest myself in this relationship 100%"), you seem to be allowing yourself to get swayed yet again by his bs and are overanalyzing things.

 

 

I think you have two options at this juncture: 1) you give him time to clear his head and figure out what he wants. However, in so doing, you are basically agreeing to stay in limbo-land and confusion. OR 2) you feel that you are truly ready to embrace the ultimatum you gave him and accept his answer right now for what it is.

 

In the end, the decision should be YOURS, independent from what he says from this point onward (unless he give you a definite "yes").

 

Just my two cents but I hope I havent offended you.

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You all have made some very good points.

 

He called last night before he went to bed. He told me he's decided to stay in North Carolina for at least one or two years because he's promised to give his all and wants to take the pressure of time out of the equation so that we can work on having a future together. He told his parents and brother before he called last night and is sending his paperwork and resume for a job today.

 

I expressed to him the fact that we seem to have a push/pull: he pushes away when I'm here, but pulls me back when he thinks he's going to lose me. I also talked to him about the fact that he hasn't consistently shown that he wants to be with me with his actions. I told him that I don't even know what to think because just 2 weeks ago he was saying he needed more time to think. He said he's been trying to shift the way he thinks about things...that he's been learning how to place importance on the people who matter most. That instead of worrying about having "fun" all the time with his friends, he needs to start prioritizing the people and things in his life because those are the things that are the most worth while.

 

Anyway, I listened to him talk about a lot of things. I still feel numb to be honest. I feel like I have to make a decision: to try to trust him and try this last time, or not believe him and walk away forever.

 

Decisions, decisions...

 

P.S. No one's offended me.

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I agreed to go to dinner with him last night. He had sent a text earlier in the evening asking if he could take me out.

 

We ended up going to a very nice restaurant. We had a bottle of wine and the food was great. Everything was going fine until right before we left, we somehow got on the subject of when we were broken up last summer. He revealed that he had slept with 6 girls in the 2 1/2 months we were broken up, one of which he had started dating more regularly at the time that he sent me the letter. When we got up to leave, I offered to pay the tab and after he let me (...yes, he let me; he said he had next time) we left. By the time we were in the car, he had changed the number to 2 girls and told me that was the honest number. I was irritated by the conversation although I'm at fault for not ending the conversation before it even began.

 

He texted me this morning saying he wants to work on building our relationship in the present...that what happened in the past doesn't matter and that the fact that we love each other should be all that's important. I honestly hadn't thought about it anymore since I went to bed the night before. I wrote him back and said, "Okay. It's a new year. The past is in the past. Let's just start with a clean slate."

 

He then texts me back about 10 minutes later and says, "Okay. The pandora's box is open: the real number is 6. That's the truth. All that should be important is that we love each other and we're going to work on our relationship now. If you don't think you can get past it or need time to process it, let me know..." blah blah blah. Arghhh..why would he keep talking about it when the conversation was over??! I didn't freakin' wanna know!!!

 

Honestly, it really doesn't matter how many people he was with (although, gosh...6 different girls in 2.5 months??). It's not like I expected him to put his life on hold when we broke up, but there are two things that bother me about the situation.

 

#1: He continued to contact me repeatedly when we were apart, talking about how bad he wanted to be with me and how he was "working" on himself to be a better man, etc. He claimed the reason why he slept with all those girls because he was mourning the loss of me. I know a lot of guys do that, but the guys I know that do that have done it without trying to continuously get back with their ex-girlfriends while sleeping with a different girl every weekend, even getting steady with one person towards the end at the same time they were writing a letter pledging their love to their ex to give them one last chance. Maybe I'm just really naive.

 

#2: He compared me to these girls as recently as a few days ago when we had our discussion...him telling me that when he had sex with these girls, they made him feel sexy and desireable and that I no longer do. That these girls would be so happy to see him when he would come over, but he feels like I'm not happy to see him...that total strangers would make him feel like they were so glad he was in their presense, but when he comes to my house, I don't act that way.

 

It made me feel like instead of working through his pain to truly improve himself and reflect on the relationship like he said he was doing, he got his "comfort" from these random sexual encounters. That they "comforted" him so much, that he even had the nerve to bring them up to me because he thought about and compared in his head what they did and I didn't. For a second, it made me feel like maybe the reason why his efforts were short-lived was because he hadn't really taken the time to work on himself like he'd made me think; that he was simply just "missing me."

 

Why didn't he just compare me to myself in the way I used to be if that's how he felt?? Why not just say, "You used to do xyz...but now you don't" instead of comparing me to all these girls he had flings with when we were apart?? Why would I, someone who loves him, want to be compared to a bunch of meaningless strangers who he just wanted to sleep with?

 

Sure, I dated a couple of guys when we were broken up, but I've ALWAYS kept that separate from him; separate from US. I've NEVER compared him to them or even brought them up, EVER. I would never even dream of saying, "So-and-so made me feel like this..but you don't do that anymore.."

 

We exchanged a few more texts and I told him I just wanted to drop it. So he asked me to lunch, but I told him I already ate. I honestly just don't want to be around him at the moment. I want and need to forget about the whole thing.

 

I know this isn't a big deal...I just need to forget about it because it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Maybe my brain's just still reeling from the past 6 weeks. I do wish he had never mentioned these girls in comparison to me and what I don't do. If the past is in the past, that's where he should have left it the other day when we were talking. That was the worst thing he could have done. And now knowing just how many girls I was compared to?...ughhhh

 

Just wanted to vent. Thanks for reading. Hope everyone's having a great weekend.

~Mari

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Ok, I seriously can't deal with this guy anymore. Bless your heart for putting up with him!!

 

 

what kind of decent man asks to take his woman out to dinner, reveals that he slept with 6 other women during a short 2.5 month breakup period during dinner, and then turns around to let his woman pay for that very same dinner???

 

 

Not to mention the back and forth story about how many women he did actually slept with, the fact that he was starting to get serious with one of the women while writing you a heartfelt letter, and how these random hookups made him feel more secure because you allegedly don't show that you're happy when you see him....etc etc etc

 

I could carry on, but he isn't even worth the effort anymore. There's alot wrong with what happened and what was revealed to you during your night out, Mari.

 

This guy is too emotionally immature to be in a serious relationship, especially with someone as great as you! I would move on pronto...Save yourself!!

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