Men and their obsession with women's appearance...

[CaptainPlanet]

I have no idea who any of those people are.

 

You can blame the media for showing what people want to see, in that case women have only themselves to blame, or you are blaming the media for showing what men want to see - in that case you are blaming men for finding good looking women attractive. Why then should the media be punished for being profitable ?

 

At the end of the day it is the womans own personal insecurities that allow her to have an eating disorder, or to be severly affected by images on TV. If it weren't the media it would be the pretty girl down the street that makes these women feel and act inferior.

[Barg123]

When looking for a relationship, I'm sure every guy has many criteria that look for in a girl, but the fact is, appearance is the EASIEST factor to determine. Sure, we want a girl who we share interests/values with, has a good personality, is a person we can trust, etc etc, but how long does it take to figure those out? Whether we realize it or not, appearance speaks volumes about ourselves.

 

In terms of weight and fitness, I personally view obese women to lack discipline (either eating or exercise habits) and more often than not, self-esteem in one regard or another. Is this always true? Of course not, but I don't have the time to date every obese woman I meet just so I can find the exceptions.

 

In terms of general appearance and fashion, I view well dressed women as having a good understanding of society tastes and standards. They don't have to wear expensive brand names or revealing outfits, but if they appear in public unkept (ignores/oblivious of opinions of others), sloppy (aloof or ignorant), or weird (excessively rebellious), then there is often something about their personality that is unappealing to me and many other guys. In fact, I avoid the overly dressed up women because I conclude that they are high maintenance. Again, generalizations, but why take the chance when there are others without these red flags?

 

All this can be determined within seconds of meeting a person. Am I being judgemental? Of course I am, but that's life, get used to it. I want to be with the best possibly person I could be with, so does everybody else.

[CynicalGuitarist]

If I were about 15-16 right now, I would agree with you...

 

My reason for my perceived "shallowness" is different than most guys'... If I'm gonna take the plunge and stifle my freedom and flexibility with a relationship... might as well go the full-nine and not settle for less in ANY department.

 

Also, attraction is kind of an imprisonment; it's not like peeps can really choose who they can be attracted to. I wish I could be attracted to every single less-than-dazzling girl out there soley for their personality, but oftentimes, reality isn't exactly the most consoling thing in existence. This case is no exception.

 

I catch myself wondering if these ugly women who preach "love is blind" would be doing the same thing if they, themselves were petite, slender, curvy, and gorgeous... then, all of a sudden, when they say they only want tall, dark, handsome, strong, muscular, multi-talented, rich men, it's a "preference".

 

Human attraction altogether is a pain in the... wrist.

[Lily04]

 

I catch myself wondering if these ugly women who preach "love is blind" would be doing the same thing if they, themselves were petite, slender, curvy, and gorgeous... then, all of a sudden, when they say they only want tall, dark, handsome, strong, muscular, multi-talented, rich men, it's a "preference".

 

Human attraction altogether is a pain in the... wrist.

 

Good points... I'm not sure if I myself am being unrealistic. I've only had 2 relationships my whole life (I'm 23) and both of those lasted less than 3 months. I'm *only* attracted to those type of guys you describe... i guess i have high expectations (minus the "rich" part, he doesn't have to be rich but just educated/smart.) but yet I wouldn't describe myself as gorgeous... largely because of my *** hair though. If i simply got hair extensions I would be... but I can't bare to put out $1,000 for hair right now.) Do you think hair honestly makes such a difference or am i maybe overthinking this... i have nice features, am tall, thin, etc. but have shortish (shoulder-length) but relatively thin hair due to a hair disorder.. it frames my face OK but i'd look like a model if I had long hair... i could probably model, actually. And I know most men like girls with long hair.........i'm not sure if thhe reason why i can't find a guy is because of my expectations or because i'm too ugly.......help

[Zorba]

Both genders respond to physical appearance. Even newborn babies respond more to more attractive faces. It denotes physical and hormonal fitness and good development. In the end 90% of couples end up with someone that is their equal in overall status. Study after study has shown that complete strangers when faced just with pictures of men and women of varying attractiveness can put the couples together with very high accuracy. That's without social cues, like weath and personality. Men who are successful have an easier time of it as the physical can be overcome by a higher status, as that is considered evolutionarily important by the female mind, even in todays post feminist world.

 

In any case men are just more vocal and particular about what they find physically attractive in women.

 

There's so little basis for accuracy in this it's pretty much pointless. Throw it in with reading tea leaves as a nice distraction but little else. There are big companies who use this as a way of vetting potential employees, but no properly run double blind study has ever shown any accuracy. Reads like spam to me.

[Lily04]

Zorba: I doubt that companies use that as a way of weeding out potential employees (I am guess what is what "vetting" means here..) I think you're right though and I was going to mention that point as well. That is, that couples of relatively equal physical attractiveness tend to date each There are exceptions but that's generally true. However... that said. for me, I tend to be attracted to men who aren't necessarily "goodlooking" by conventional standard but there is something in their eyes or overall look that communicates intelligence to me. I will need a guy who is somewhat attractive because I am attractive myself... but I dont need a supermodel type of guy either because intelligence to me is more important. In fact, I've dated a professor in the past who wasn't all that hot, but decently attractive... it's like there's a minimum level of attractiveness and after that's achieve, depending on the preson, other factors come into play. I think that's true for men as well.... if you have personality that can definitely play into it as long as you are "not too ugly or fat" other things can be looked past.

 

Case example... I was totally shocked this summer to find my ex-bf (who is relatively goodlooking but more charming and intelligent) start dating this girl who is asian and not that goodlooking at all... I would have never pegged him as the type. When we were dating I got the impression that he was just looking for a pretty girl to "lay", a fling with a hottie so to speak and that was precisely the reason I dumped him. I didnt think he treated me seriously. Now he is dating a girl who is, by societal standards i guess, actually not goodlooking at all (not very thin or pretty) but a top executive at a law firm...and she looks nice and smart in her photos. His other ex-gfs weren't that attractive either but ... I guess decent. Thin and very smart, but not that pretty.

 

I suspect that men who are very intelligent... they need a girl to match in intelligence. For some men that may not be as important (i.e let's say the Hugh Heffner type assuming he's very intelligent... I dont know, but the type of guy who is and dates Playboy bunnies) but for those who are more down-to-earth they may value that more. It's all about values...

 

I place intelligence and compatible personality as highest. In fact I have had a crush on a guy who was middle-eastern and people wouldn't consider him my type at all in terms fo looks, but I was because he was very quick-witted and charming. I value that above all... some people also place high value in the person being the same nationality and religion. So that said, if I were given photos of my ex-bf and his current gf I would never place them as a pair, if I were given that study... on looks alone. But if I knew their compatible educational backgrounds and such, then I may have assumed it.... and him with his other ex-gfs, more likely.

[Zorba]

Zorba: I doubt that companies use that as a way of weeding out potential employees (I am guess what is what "vetting" means here..)

Believe it or not some do. Big ones too. It happens when human recourses departments run out of reasons for their existence. Next it'll be star signs

 

I agree with you in the rest of what you say. Generally the purely physical matches work most of the time, but there are factors on top of that.

[JadedStar]

Both genders respond to physical appearance. Even newborn babies respond more to more attractive faces. It denotes physical and hormonal fitness and good development.

 

the problem with this tho zorba is that what is attractive is largely cultural. What one culture might find attractive another culture might find hideous - what most of us find attractive is usually engrained in us from small children on up to adulthood...that is the only issue i'd have with saying babies are more attracted to "prettier faces". Since beauty is so subjective I'm not inclined to really agree with that. It is in this regard that I think the media can drive what people find beautiful or not. This has been proven over the decades when you think about how some decades fuller figures were the rage - like Marilyn Monroe, then other decades the pencil thin look like the Twiggy era...then you have some cultures where the amount of rings a woman can fit on her neck and how far she can expand it is a sign of beauty, other cultures would find that shocking.

 

I do agree tho that employers tend to hire more attractive people. Some industries will be more prone to this than others. Jobs where a person comes in contact with the public are definitely full of prettier people than ugly.

 

Quote by Lily04: Case example... I was totally shocked this summer to find my ex-bf (who is relatively goodlooking but more charming and intelligent) start dating this girl who is asian and not that goodlooking at all... I would have never pegged him as the type. When we were dating I got the impression that he was just looking for a pretty girl to "lay", a fling with a hottie so to speak and that was precisely the reason I dumped him. I didnt think he treated me seriously. Now he is dating a girl who is, by societal standards i guess, actually not goodlooking at all (not very thin or pretty) but a top executive at a law firm...and she looks nice and smart in her photos. His other ex-gfs weren't that attractive either but ... I guess decent. Thin and very smart, but not that pretty.

 

Hopefully you learned something from your b/fs choice in dating that girl LIly. Not everything you do in life will depend on your looks. This is why it is so important to have a great personality and some intelligence to fall back on. I think you place far too much importance on how you look.

[Batya33]

I agree that the key is the fact that you are "shocked" that someone might choose someone who you do not consider attractive (sorry, but your "societal standards" while amusing, is meaningless - what society? what age group?) over you. My bf thinks I am beautiful and when I have pressed him (when I have been feeling down on my looks) the most he will say is "I don't care what you think, or what anyone else could think -all that matters is that I think you are beautiful."

 

And - by "standards" you refer to I would be dating beneath me because of the (I think silly) standard that a man's height is important in the "attractive" quotient. He is below average in height (so am I). I would find it very amusing if someone thought that I wasn't doing as well as I could because he is 5"5 and not 5"11.

[Dating Coach]

This works both ways. Shame on any of you blaming the male gender.

[Zorba]

the problem with this tho zorba is that what is attractive is largely cultural.

Not as much as is usually thought of. Yes there are cultural norms that vary over time, but certain things are constant. In women; clear skin, a particular hip waist ratio(Marilyn, Twiggy, Kate moss, stone age fertility statues and the venus de milo all have exactly the same ratio), wrinkle free, pert breasts and bottoms, symmetrical faces and bodies, large eyes, small jaws(juvenile features), all of which denote youth, hormonal, developmental and reproductive fitness. There are similar attraction triggers with men. Women will have more orgasms with men who have less body fat, have wider shoulders and are more facially symmetrical as an example. These are pretty much constant accross culture and time.

[tylercdurden2004]

Not as much as is usually thought of. Yes there are cultural norms that vary over time, but certain things are constant. In women; clear skin, a particular hip waist ratio(Marilyn, Twiggy, Kate moss, stone age fertility statues and the venus de milo all have exactly the same ratio), wrinkle free, pert breasts and bottoms, symmetrical faces and bodies, large eyes, small jaws(juvenile features), all of which denote youth, hormonal, developmental and reproductive fitness. There are similar attraction triggers with men. Women will have more orgasms with men who have less body fat, have wider shoulders and are more facially symmetrical as an example. These are pretty much constant accross culture and time.

 

 

Yes there have been many studies accross cultures that show things like waist to hip ratio.

[tylercdurden2004]

This works both ways. Shame on any of you blaming the male gender.

 

Its unfortunate but this is something that is particularily common today. Male bashing is almost seen as a right by some in particular I find it at its height in North America.

 

I think men just have to stand up and say its not right and that its as unacceptable and it would be if the shoe was on the other foot. Women wont be doing that for men anytime soon as you can see on this thread.

[glegend]

Well here is a quote that I found about women being tha same about men.

 

"Girls with butss like mine dont talk to guys with faces like yours"

[Gratsy]

Statistics Canada did a study on this and found that people in urban areas were, on average, much more thin than those in rural areas. I don't remember the figures, but it was something like 3 times as many obese. The explanation they offered was that people in rural areas don't walk in their everyday life. That makes sense to me. Growing up in a small town, the only walking we did was from our front door to our car. Walking anywhere would take hours. Living in downtown Montreal, I walked everywhere. I probably walked a couple of hours each day, just getting from work to school to home to the coffee shop to the store..

 

Depends on the area. I live in a tropical-esque, urban sprawl type of city and a lot of the people are overweight...in fact most people are fat. The places are too far apart to walk to and fast food is everywhere. But there is also a preference for women who have curves here...as always the men hate fat women but they have this thing for women who are not overly slim. Skinny women do not get as much attention around here.

[Gratsy]

I know what you mean. There are a lot of assumptions about skinny women...that men want them more...but when I've gone out with friends, men tend to gravitate towards me...and I'm curvy. When I was skinny...I had less men hitting on me and was more deppressed about my looks than I am now.

[Gratsy]

Its unfortunate but this is something that is particularily common today. Male bashing is almost seen as a right by some in particular I find it at its height in North America.

 

I think men just have to stand up and say its not right and that its as unacceptable and it would be if the shoe was on the other foot. Women wont be doing that for men anytime soon as you can see on this thread.

 

In North America, egalitarianism between people from varying backgrounds is prominent as it became more necessary. I don't think that men are bashed in North America. It doesn't make sense, especially since women aren't being oppressed like they are in other parts of the world.

[tylercdurden2004]

In North America, egalitarianism between people from varying backgrounds is prominent as it became more necessary. I don't think that men are bashed in North America. It doesn't make sense, especially since women aren't being oppressed like they are in other parts of the world.

 

Absolutely there is. I have lived in 3 other areas of the world and travelled many more. Granted there are some aspects of North American life that are more egalitarian that other parts of the world there is an illusion that North America is more egaltarian. Its not in my opinion that it is.

 

Male bashing is an accepted practice in society these days as behaviours traditionally associated with men are now deemed to be politically incorrect. Such as the subject of this thread.

[Gratsy]

Absolutely there is. I have lived in 3 other areas of the world and travelled many more. Granted there are some aspects of North American life that are more egalitarian that other parts of the world there is an illusion that North America is more egaltarian. Its not in my opinion that it is.

 

Male bashing is an accepted practice in society these days as behaviours traditionally associated with men are now deemed to be politically incorrect. Such as the subject of this thread.

 

 

I haven't been around the world, but I've spoken to people from other parts of the world and their opinions about the place of women in society have been very off-putting, specifically, I think- because they aren't what I'm used to in my North American culture. Of course exceptions exist... but I think gender role egalitarianism is more of a fundamental component of NA culture than it is elsewhere...not counting a very small number of Western(ized) nations.

[tylercdurden2004]

I haven't been around the world, but I've spoken to people from other parts of the world and their opinions about the place of women in society have been very off-putting, specifically, I think- because they aren't what I'm used to in my North American culture. Of course exceptions exist... but I think gender role egalitarianism is more of a fundamental component of NA culture than it is elsewhere...not counting a very small number of Western(ized) nations.

 

Sure there maybe more egalitarianism in North America compared to some other countries when it comes to genders. But egalitarian is an elusive term at best. Expecially when you are going beyond basic human rights.

 

That however has little to do with male bashing which was my point originally. Its still very ok to slander men and their nature as being archaic and politcally incorrect. Its not the same as bashing women. Not to say that bashing women doesnt occur but simply bashing women is less tolerated on a whole. Male bashing is often brushed off. There very much is a societal double standard.

[Altruist]

Slow down on those multivitamins, Multivitamin .

[Dating Coach]

I get annoyed by watching sitcoms in the US. Pretty much every sitcom on TV seems to have the dumb male head of the house who constantly is messing up, and there is always the wise and in control female to roll her eyes at him and set things straight.

 

This trend continues in many movies and pretty much every date movie.

[Gratsy]

Sure there maybe more egalitarianism in North America compared to some other countries when it comes to genders. But egalitarian is an elusive term at best. Expecially when you are going beyond basic human rights.

 

That however has little to do with male bashing which was my point originally. Its still very ok to slander men and their nature as being archaic and politcally incorrect. Its not the same as bashing women. Not to say that bashing women doesnt occur but simply bashing women is less tolerated on a whole. Male bashing is often brushed off. There very much is a societal double standard.

 

 

Nah, bashing comes from both sides. It probably seems prevelant in NA b/c women have more of a voice.

[tylercdurden2004]

Nah, bashing comes from both sides. It probably seems prevelant in NA b/c women have more of a voice.

 

Glad you could reiterate my point that it happens on both sides. What I did also say is that it is much more acceptable on a societal level to male bash that female bash especially in public. Dating Coach has made a perfect point regrading this. Sitcoms rarely show women who cant drive or read maps etc but they sure do show men such as bumbling fools who are insensitive and stupid. I dont watch much TV is any but shows that seems to follow this trend: Something about Raymons, King of Queens, Simpsons etc etc etc.

 

But this is always passed of as "only joking" and I will be passed off as overly sensitive. Because I am male and because the subject is male.

[Lily04]

You know what... I just had to come back to read a few threads as I posted a "Goodbye" thread recently lol... but this topic still intrigues me. I just have to say that I think when people on this thread aer saying "guys approach me all the time..." do you honestly think it's about looks? ... I say this because I notice that guys approach my sister constantly, and yet I am about the same level of attractiveness and I am not approached by guys that often, if at all... the type of guys I tend to be attracted to, who hit on me are older men... and also tend to be intellectual and ambitious, i.e. doctors, professors... whereas my sister will get the skateboarder Cali type of guys... her age. I think it's more about how well you CONNECT with people when you make eye contact that looks in a lot of cases (perhaps the exception is Angelina Jolie or 10/10 supermodel beauty) but people who are relatively attractive or of avg. attractiveness -- it's probably NOT the way you look as much as it is the subconscious signals you give off. There may be an air about you that says "intelligent" when you connect with a person, or "really confident" or "outgoing"... you can usually tell in a person's eyes. I've been attracted to men, as well, who are not typically that attractive and I've been told I can "do better" by friends, but I was still drawn to them for entirely different reasons.

 

Could it be that we're focusing entirely on the wrong reasons here?? That the reason why men approach you is not because you're that totally objectively hot (I mean, sure there are probably hot people on ENA but ... I'm going to assume the deviation is around average on this site as there's prob. NOT an atypical amount of hot people on this site lol...) but moreso because there's some subconscious magnetic attraction between you and another person. There is a scientific word for this, actually... some people say it's subconscious chemicals, some say it can be sense of smell that's compatible... but in any case, I think attraction is definitely more than just the physical that meets the eye.