Men and their obsession with women's appearance...

[Lily04]

 

How long is a woman fertile? How long has she got where she is likely to have healthy children. The latter tapers rapidly off after the age of 25 in most women. How long is a man fertile? Compare and contrast.

 

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After 25??? how many women are getting pregnant at 23-24 nowadays? I dont think you start to "taper off" after 25!!! LOL no wonder you are a male. Women are completely fertile up until mid-30s (maybe even longer) but they start to "taper off" after 30 I would say. The average marriage age is around 26-27 in the United States, and I doubt the majority are having babies before they marry, so by your definition many children currenlty being born are at risk of being unhealthy.......? Since they "rapidly" taper off? geez......

[JadedStar]

Most of the time in my life that i have had a pull towards a person that was not explainable when i really really thought about it i could explain it. there was something about that person that reminded me of someone i met in my past and connected with or they had a look like a celebrity i was dying for or something that is usually explainable but not right away. It takes some thought to really figure it out. But it was almost always some environmentally induced factor IMO.

 

But i am sure chemistry has a finite amount of pull based off of chemistry. But i think it is very finite.

[Zorba]

I was curious what people thought about my hypothesis (well, likely a few people already wrote about this, sociologists, scientists, etc.) that attraction isn't REALLY based on physical attraction alone (the pure, instinctual type even!!) but moreso on the biological attraction... what is the word for this again? I forget... there was a study on this and they termed it, it had been thrown around a bit on the Flirtation & Attraction form, which I used to post on a few years ago. But when your eyes connect with someone, and sometimes there's a biological push/pull you experience, almost at a biological level.

Apparently a lot of it is down to immune systems. The smell of a partner tells you that their immune systems are sufficiently different enough to yours and that any children you may have together will inherit a stronger immune system. Also men and women are attracted to features, mental and physical, in the opposite sex that are similar to those features invoked by the parent of the opposite sex. The old oedipal thang goin on. In women, men with strong facial and bodily symmetry are more attractive and women have more orgasms(and thus are more likely to get pregnant) with men who are more symmetrical.

 

It seems to be less of an issue with men, though features that show higher oestregen levels and fertility are triggers for men. Youthful skin, pertness, hip to waist ratios are major attractions, because they show reproductive fitness.

 

Apparently, even the long legs in women as an attractant has a reason. Girls, at the height of puberty have long bones that grow faster than the rest of the body. Many 16/17 year old girls are gangly and awkward because of that. That's also the start of when they are at their most fertile and the long legs attraction plugs into that.

 

It's all fascinating stuff.

[Zorba]

After 25??? how many women are getting pregnant at 23-24 nowadays? I dont think you start to "taper off" after 25!!! LOL no wonder you are a male. Women are completely fertile up until mid-30s (maybe even longer) but they start to "taper off" after 30 I would say. The average marriage age is around 26-27 in the United States, and I doubt the majority are having babies before they marry, so by your definition many children currenlty being born are at risk of being unhealthy.......? Since they "rapidly" taper off? geez......

No, I agree, that fertility is being delayed in the modern world. That does not mean that fertility and the highest fertility in women is not younger than those years. Women in general are at their highest fertility between the ages of 16 and 26. The risk of birth defects and infertility go up noticeably beyond 30. Beyond 35 those risks go up markedly. By the way, it's nothing to do with whether I'm male or not. That's the way it is regardless.

[JadedStar]

Also men and women are attracted to features, mental and physical, in the opposite sex that are similar to those features invoked by the parent of the opposite sex.

 

Exactly. But i would definitely disagree that this is biological because this phenomonon occurs with adopted children as well. It was the environmental influence of being raised by this person that IMO causes it.

 

I strongly doubt that an adopted child would have a pull to a persno who has characteristics of the mother or father if they had never met that parent. Only the one who raised him or her.

 

I still maintain that attraction influence as it relates to biology is only as far as the sex one is attracted to - females as a rule typically have breasts, smaller waists than hips, and other features you mention. This is just a difference in female anatomy vs male so its a gimmie that a man who is genetically wired to be straight would be attracted to some or all of those attributes. But the intricate and less definable rules of attraction such as does a person prefer the blonde or brunette female, or shorter or taller one, or thinner or plumper i think is almost entirely environmentally influenced.

[JadedStar]

After 25??? how many women are getting pregnant at 23-24 nowadays? I dont think you start to "taper off" after 25!!! LOL no wonder you are a male. Women are completely fertile up until mid-30s (maybe even longer) but they start to "taper off" after 30 I would say. The average marriage age is around 26-27 in the United States, and I doubt the majority are having babies before they marry, so by your definition many children currenlty being born are at risk of being unhealthy.......? Since they "rapidly" taper off? geez......

 

And that post of zorba's almost allows me to rest my case. his saying that is IMO is proof that this is entirely cultural based. he has heard such things his whole life so believes it to be fact. I know he is primarily discussing this in terms of fertility but I know for a fact that this type of mindset gets convoluted into thinking women become inferior the more they age in MANY factors, not just bearing children. Some women never even HAVE kids by choice or because they can't...so to base it all on that is so archaic in thinking.

 

thank goodness culture is shifting and some of the best looking hotties who make the top 100 list in beauty polls are women like renee russo and heather locklear and those restless housewives hotties. All who are over 35. And this should be good news to ANY women whether she is 18 or 60 because everyone is going to be that age at some point.

 

If we women sit back and let ourselves go and become asexual after the age of 30 like some of these men would have you believe happens what a pathetic world this would be! IF what zorba says is true I'd like to know why many women NEVER have their first orgasm until after the age of 30? Or why the older we get the more sexual beings we become.......i was a dead weight in bed at the age of 20. NOw? I won't go into any details i'll spare everyone but i aint no dead weight. LMAO.

 

In my honest opinion i think this is largely a cultural belief BECAUSE men have in the past surpressed women to keep them out of places of power and stature so they can keep on with their gentlemen's clubs. Wow what a great way to do that to prepetuate the mindset that women "taper off" after the age of 25. HMM, is it a coincendence that just at the age as women are getting smarter and smarter is the age they are supposed to be tapering off? LMAO. I don't want to go wildly off topic but these are the same cultural beliefs that have kept minorities down...there is no genetic difference as to why the opportunities have been slimmer for many..it is CULTURAL. And the laws of attraction I think are also HEAVILY influenced by our culture and what we are exposed to. If you lived in a culture that highly regarded women of the age of 35 and up that society would have a different view. This whole new "MILF" concept running around has younger boys seeing older women in a different light. WHY? Not genetics. What they see on the internet and the media has influenced a lot of it.

 

Sorry Zorba. LOL I respect your advice but that last quote lily responded to proves my point. Women dont taper off after 25. That is when many of them become interesting. Prior to 25 i was pretty non interesting. LOL Not that women younger than that aren't, but for most of us average chicks it takes awhile to really hone our skills and be our very best. It is a sad state of affairs for anyone to think the way you are thinking in that post. And this is not me saying this because I am 40 this is me saying this because I have a daughter and she for darn sure won't be "tapering off" in a couple of years. LMAO that is so ludicrous and I didn't raise her to have such silly views.

[tmp0620]

The harder a girl/woman tries to look pretty, the less attractive I find her.

[JadedStar]

The harder a girl/woman tries to look pretty, the less attractive I find her.

 

And i hate to stereotype because it really serves little purpose but to be honest, the younger a girl is the harder she TRIES. ONce she relaxes and is able to be herself - sure a woman should always look her best but not obsess over it - but once she relaxes the world sees her as a more attractive person most of the time. The girl who can't leave the house without hair all fixed and makeup just right often seems way too contrived. Too much of a stressball.

 

And the age that women "relax" and stop stressing is different for all women. Some are able to achieve this very young, for others it takes a good while to get there.....happened for me at around the age of 28. This is another reason some of these biological rules are whack. I didn't even become what i would consider "attractive" until about the age of 28. Prior to that i was too skinny and didn't really know how to fix my hair or put together a wardrobe.

[tmp0620]

A lot of young women (teens and early 20's) haven't thought enough to realize that they're selling out to the shallow guys that they complain about all the time.

[JadedStar]

A lot of young women (teens and early 20's) haven't thought enough to realize that they're selling out to the shallow guys that they complain about all the time.

 

Edit: Sorry if they came off as offensive, I'm in a whack mood.

 

Well i think you are right. That is because they are pretty self obsessed and often self absorbed so when you see a girl in that mode she is naturally going to migrate to shallow men.

 

Not all is lost. Many women your age are NOT like that. Good thing for you maturity comes earlier for some.

[Sweet Buttabean Jellayroll]

i dont see a problem with wanting only a hot gf

 

however, sometimes someone who isent so hot sweeps you off your feet

 

but men often times have to go out looking for mate and assume the responsibility of approaching a total stranger and i think we have the right to go after only ones that we think are hot.

 

i only approach/talk to extensivly with girls that i think are hot..........why? beacuse im not going to approach someone i find ugly now am i?

 

so all in all most want hot GF's.......this is why we all see people differently, so i dont know why women get upset.....if i found a woman ugly someone else would find her cute.....

 

 

[JadedStar]

sweetbutta that is what the debate of the last couple pages is about tho.....does what a person thinks is hot come innately thru biology or is it influenced by environment.

 

I don't think anyone is angry. Everyone knows what they look like and if they are on a society accepted norm, or not.

 

 

But that is the thing, i think it is a society accepted norm, not biological.

 

And also what you think is a "hot girlfriend" someone like ironlion might not. Etc etc. You might think a Halle Barry look alike is a hot girlfriend. Another young guy might think a Terry Hatcher look alike is a hot girlfriend. The last few posts were debating is that preference biological or environment/culture influenced.

[Sweet Buttabean Jellayroll]

sweetbutta that is what the debate of the last couple pages is about tho.....does what a person thinks is hot come innately thru biology or is it influenced by environment.

 

I don't think anyone is angry. Everyone knows what they look like and if they are on a society accepted norm, or not.

 

 

But that is the thing, i think it is a society accepted norm, not biological.

 

thats easy, its influenced by the environment we live in.

 

ive been to vermont, men like women with small butts, maybe a c cup at best, and a nice face and a adorable smile

 

i find that to be a normal woman walking down the street that i wouldnt look at

 

now in MD where i reside, we tend to like our women ghetto, the nails, the atitude, the big booty all that is attractive to us......

why? MD is a hip-hop state, influenced heavily by club scene and living the rap video life....thats just us.

 

so i would most def say the environment. so what i find attractive lots of people would run away from, but a ghetto chick with nails and a bit of edge would make me run to her and say "HEY BAY BAY LET SWEET BUTTA BE YA MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

i dont think your "born" just liking one set of people, sounds off the wall to me

 

 

And also what you think is a "hot girlfriend" someone like ironlion might not. Etc etc. You might think a Halle Barry look alike is a hot girlfriend. Another young guy might think a Terry Hatcher look alike is a hot girlfriend. The last few posts were debating is that preference biological or environment/culture influenced.[/Quote]

i find halle berry average at best..........and others like jessical alba ect.

 

and i still would stick to its environmental/culture influenced

[Zorba]

his saying that is IMO is proof that this is entirely cultural based. he has heard such things his whole life so believes it to be fact.

It is a fact that women over 30 are less fertile than they are at 20. End of. What this means for the individual and society is up to that individual and society to work out.

I know he is primarily discussing this in terms of fertility but I know for a fact that this type of mindset gets convoluted into thinking women become inferior the more they age in MANY factors, not just bearing children. Some women never even HAVE kids by choice or because they can't...so to base it all on that is so archaic in thinking.

In some ways yes, it is. In primitive societies most women would be nearly dead by 40, through childbirth if nothing else. Most tribal societies have more older men than older women.

 

thank goodness culture is shifting and some of the best looking hotties who make the top 100 list in beauty polls are women like renee russo and heather locklear and those restless housewives hotties. All who are over 35.

Yes but they soft focus them and photoshop them to a ridiculous degree. Those same women are spending hours in the gym or starving themselves to the point of illness and why? To look "great for their age", IE younger. Terru hatcher looked sexier when she was 25. When they do the same kind of stuff to George Clooney I'll believe the MILF hype. Look at the top 100 of male sex symbols. the top 10 are mostly 30 or older.

And this should be good news to ANY women whether she is 18 or 60 because everyone is going to be that age at some point.

And the trick is to be cool in your own skin regardless of what society may think.

If we women sit back and let ourselves go and become asexual after the age of 30 like some of these men would have you believe happens what a pathetic world this would be!

At no point would I go along with that I must say.

IF what zorba says is true I'd like to know why many women NEVER have their first orgasm until after the age of 30? Or why the older we get the more sexual beings we become.......i was a dead weight in bed at the age of 20. NOw? I won't go into any details i'll spare everyone but i aint no dead weight. LMAO.

I could be rogueish and suggest that it's because 20 year old women are sleeping with 20 year old men who have less than a clue..... It could also be a biological response to make sure a woman becomes pregnant as her fertility tapers off.

 

In my honest opinion i think this is largely a cultural belief BECAUSE men have in the past surpressed women to keep them out of places of power and stature so they can keep on with their gentlemen's clubs. Wow what a great way to do that to prepetuate the mindset that women "taper off" after the age of 25. HMM, is it a coincendence that just at the age as women are getting smarter and smarter is the age they are supposed to be tapering off? LMAO.

Men get wiser and more intelligent as they pass the 25/30 age too. Indeed I would say that most women are well ahead of most men at that age.

I don't want to go wildly off topic but these are the same cultural beliefs that have kept minorities down...there is no genetic difference as to why the opportunities have been slimmer for many..it is CULTURAL.

Race and gender are wildly different and can't be compared. On so many levels that's the case.

And the laws of attraction I think are also HEAVILY influenced by our culture and what we are exposed to. If you lived in a culture that highly regarded women of the age of 35 and up that society would have a different view. This whole new "MILF" concept running around has younger boys seeing older women in a different light. WHY? Not genetics. What they see on the internet and the media has influenced a lot of it.

Oh it does influence and it does have an effect, but the fact is, that young men will still in general seek out young women.

Sorry Zorba. LOL I respect your advice but that last quote lily responded to proves my point. Women dont taper off after 25. That is when many of them become interesting. Prior to 25 i was pretty non interesting. LOL Not that women younger than that aren't, but for most of us average chicks it takes awhile to really hone our skills and be our very best. It is a sad state of affairs for anyone to think the way you are thinking in that post. And this is not me saying this because I am 40 this is me saying this because I have a daughter and she for darn sure won't be "tapering off" in a couple of years. LMAO that is so ludicrous and I didn't raise her to have such silly views.

Hell I'm looking down the barrel of 40. So what? I know I have more knowledge than I did at 20. I also know I was faster and stronger at 20 and I dare say my sperm count was higher. Can I run as fast now as I did then? No. Can I take as many risks physically or with things like smoking and drinking? No. Can I change career or direction as easily as I could at 20? No. Have I as many options in the dating scene as I did at 20? No. Does a woman's ass look better at 20 than it does at 40. yes. Does this keep me awake at night? No.

 

If I'm lucky what I have gained with the years will offset what I've lost, until the point is reached of diminishing returns. That could be in 2 years time, it could be in 10. That's up to me and my genetics and luck. I don't deny the cruelty of same though.

[JadedStar]

Yes but they soft focus them and photoshop them to a ridiculous degree. Those same women are spending hours in the gym or starving themselves to the point of illness and why

 

LMAO! Zorba...you don't think the YOUNG women are doing that too? If you think these young celebs look like that all the time....well man, you are crazy LOL

 

HOLY COW women of the age of 18 are starving themselves and photoshopping their pics. This is a symptom of being a women TODAY not a certain age group!

 

I can't even have this discussion with you anymore. LOL (i'm not mad tho i know tone is misinterpreted easily over the net) You are not being sensical at all. Women OF ALL AGES are starving themselves because of the CULTURAL perception to fit a certain mold. They are not becoming anorexic due to "biological" influence i can tell you that.

 

Race and gender are wildly different and can't be compared. On so many levels that's the case

 

I EMPHATICALLY DISAGREE> The parallels are astoundingly similar.

[CaptainPlanet]

There is no way you can argue that a 20 year old woman is not more attractve that a 40 year old.

[JadedStar]

There is no way you can argue that a 20 year old woman is not more attractve that a 40 year old.

 

Depends on who the 20 year old and who the 40 year old is Captain Planet, and depending upon who you mean, yes i will argue it.

 

Truth is there are some ugly 20 year olds out there as are there are ugly 40 year olds. But there are also very good looking women in both of those age sets as well.

 

And its funny how ugly goes way deep to the bone for some.

[Batya33]

I am 41 and am much better looking than when I was 20 - when I was 20 I was too thin - emaciated looking - hair products were awful back then so i had major frizz issues, and I did not carry myself with the confidence I carry myself with now.

[CaptainPlanet]

You're correct Jaded Star but hold all other things equal and the 20 year old, ok maybe not a 20 year old because she wouldn't to be a proper adult, but a woman in her20's has a very, very strong advantage as far as being physically attractive.

 

To the point where you can say that most women in their 20's are more attractive than most women in their 40's.

[Batya33]

Not in my experience and it depends what you consider "attractive." Many women in their 20s are overweight if you look at statistics and if you're saying that youth is by definition more attractive then the other cliche is that thin is more attractive than fat.

[shikashika]

hmnnn.. I know a lot of stunningly gorgeous women in their 40s out there.

 

And I know that i definitely look better as a 30 year old than i did as a 20 year old!

 

My hair looked ridiculous and my self-image was terrible as a 20 year old

[v-neck]

Make-up does wonders I always say... take the make up off and some 'Hot" girls look like men! It's quite disturbing.

 

All in all, a girl to me must be attractive to my tastes and be kind and human... I can't stand party-type girls, even when I was younger (30 now), you can never have a good realtionship with a party girl or a girl that looks extremly good... Society now thinks it's "hot' to pick up married men and women, even if the rings are obvious, it's quite pathetic, no respect anymore.

 

oh, so let the hot girls do there thing, chances are they have to keep up such an image it'll drive them to insanity, trust me.

 

be normal and caring. a guy will pick up on that.

[Myk_]

Make-up does wonders I always say... take the make up off and some 'Hot" girls look like men! It's quite disturbing.

 

All in all, a girl to me must be attractive to my tastes and be kind and human... I can't stand party-type girls, even when I was younger (30 now), you can never have a good realtionship with a party girl or a girl that looks extremly good... Society now thinks it's "hot' to pick up married men and women, even if the rings are obvious, it's quite pathetic, no respect anymore.

 

oh, so let the hot girls do there thing, chances are they have to keep up such an image it'll drive them to insanity, trust me.

 

be normal and caring. a guy will pick up on that.

 

Why can't someone have a good relationship with a party girl? I know I certainly could.

[shikashika]

Why can't someone have a good relationship with a party girl? I know I certainly could.

 

Exactly!

 

 

v-neck, Whats wrong with a party girl? Just because she is a party girl does not mean she is not a marathon runner or a gourmet cook or a hiker or a snowboarder...... or 'normal and caring'

 

I love dancing 'til dawn. I also love running, cooking and mountain biking and a million other things.

 

some people, believe it or not, are multi-dimensional!

[Lily04]

Excellent post, Jaded!!!