Men and their obsession with women's appearance...

[tylercdurden2004]

Man, men should just not hit on women. But then there will be thread titled "why do all men NOT hit on women". Oh wait, there already have been.

[itsallgrand]

Often women dress up to impress other women (yes, straight women).

 

Compete. To rub something in someone else's face.

 

Yes, I agree.

 

Well, it's not too bright. Easy pickings. The ones desperate to blend in with the herd.

[Gratsy]

So by not building a life you want ie career you are reduced to accepting your confidence from compliments from men?

 

 

No reducing going on. Its basely natural for women to gain confidence when they receive attention from men. However, you can also simulate confidence from other things through mental discipline.

[corvidae]

The last office I worked in was all women, aged 30-40, and they had a picture of Daniel Craige (the James Bond guy) up on the wall wearing nothing but speedos. Also, every time they met an attractive soldier (this was working in defence) they would go on and on about it.

 

Did I get offended? Of course not! Why? Because it was just harmless talk, and talk is just air, it's the actions that matter. Men talk about hot women, but just look around you...everyday I see women who are conventionally 'ugly' or obese and they have boyfriends. It's only my male friends that can't get partners. Men are a lot less demanding than women.

 

The women I know that are most successful with men are the ones that are friendly and nice, and make an effort to talk and be pleasant. So if you see one of these 'hot' women, tell her to forget push-up bras, short skirts and make-up and tell her to try being a friendly human being: they will attract a much nicer/classier type of man.

 

Finally, I'd like to say that on many occasions I have met women who thought they were too attractive to speak to me. Some (not all) women who are at a certain level of attractiveness deem guys like me unworthy to speak to/look at/acknowledge and only focus on the rich or very good-looking men.

 

Yes, as a teenager and somewhat in my early 20s I cared ALOT about looks (John Stamos was my poster of choice, my sister's was Jim Morrison). I made a few not so great choices in men based too much on looks. And passed up a few terrific guys who I could have found attractive but who I wasn't so into being seen with. Shallow, I know but pretty typical for that age.

[Batya33]

Some (not all) women who are at a certain level of attractiveness deem guys like me unworthy to speak to/look at/acknowledge and only focus on the rich or very good-looking men.

 

I would change "women" to "people" - there will always be people who are focused more on wealth and looks than what is inside. So what?

[Gratsy]

I don't mind being friends with a guy that I'm not attracted to but often that has turned out for the worst because then they are angry when I'm not interested in something more romantic. Because of that I only focus on talking to goodlooking men or extremely unintimidating men. I don't care if a guy is rich...I like a comfortable existence and rich men are often too busy etc to give me what I want in relationship...which is time and affection.

 

Also, sometimes I won't be interested in a guy but over time he becomes more attractive because he is friendly and kind. I wouldn't naturally focus on him in the beginning but his personality catches my eye.

[corvidae]

You make it sound easy, but speaking as a man with lots of hobbies and interests, it's actually quite rare you meet someone that way. My last theatre group had/has many members, but after subtracting people for age and relationship status the number of eligible people was zero. There might be someone in the next show, but I have to wait a few months to find out. Similarly if there's no-one suitable at work then you just have to wait for new recruits to join and see what's there. Also, women just aren't very friendly. When I'm in a new club/class I find it much easier to talk to and make friends with men at first.

 

Also, and here's a major problem faced by men here, if you are in a club/group/team and you ask a woman out and she says no, you have to leave a few months before ask someone else otherwise you get a reputation for being a 'letch' and people say you 'hit on lots of girls' and then women start avoiding you. You cannot ask a bunch of women out in a row...you will not be successful that way.

 

 

No - you don't have to "hit on lots of "girls." If you get involved in activities, sports, projects, work, etc that involve women then conversations start naturally and if there seems to be interest, it's natural to say "want to get dinner some time" or a drink or a walk in the park. No "hitting on" in any aggressive way is needed because you're meeting in an environment conducive to socializing.

 

But you do have to be willing to put in the time and the effort to get involved in interesting activities - you just don't have to do the "hitting on" you described. I did it - and I always had little free time - but I made the time.

[Gratsy]

Well, this is a case of desperation. Unfortunately, people can smell it a mile away. Find some way to build confidence and not worry about asking women out. It should be easy and natural. Women like to feel special...thats why they won't date someone who was turned down by someone else or is asking a bunch of women. They like to think that of all women...you saw her and desired her.

[Batya33]

That's your personal experience- the theater group I know of has resulted in several marriages and many more long term relationships and only in the last 5 years or so. Obviously there's a little sensitivity involved because you're going to see each other often in the group but that doesn't seem to be an impediment in the groups I know of.

 

When you say age I can understand 10plus years older but there is a point where, even though you are entitled to want someone your age or within a year or two that limitation might be a bit too self-limiting.

 

And, no, you don't ask out lots of people - you get to know people and you do things socially that are not dates, and thereforeeee when you do ask someone out you're being a bit selective and probably lowering the risk that you were dead wrong. And even if you were, if you are friendly with the person it doesn't need to be awkward.

[itsallgrand]

I don't mind being friends with a guy that I'm not attracted to but often that has turned out for the worst because then they are angry when I'm not interested in something more romantic. Because of that I only focus on talking to goodlooking men or extremely unintimidating men.

 

Whoa. Sorry, just had to see if I was reading right.

[Gratsy]

Whoa. Sorry, just had to see if I was reading right.

 

 

?? I'm confused.

[itsallgrand]

Sorry, Gratsy, I made a mistake there.

 

Just ignore it, please.

[CaptainPlanet]

Well, this is a case of desperation. Unfortunately, people can smell it a mile away. Find some way to build confidence and not worry about asking women out. It should be easy and natural. Women like to feel special...thats why they won't date someone who was turned down by someone else or is asking a bunch of women. They like to think that of all women...you saw her and desired her.

 

People like to feel special. I'd like to believe the one girl I ask out is the right one for me. Unfortunately I have to deal with the reality that I am more likely to be rejected.

[rocio]

How many threads have we seen on ENA that say, "my boyfriend has let himself go. what should I do?" None that I've seen. Now, how many threads are there about a guy whose girlfriend doesn't shave her legs, doesn't get dressed up in high heels, etc? It's a dilemma for these guys when they find themselves stuck with someone who has let herself go and is surrounded by hot women who "take care of themselves. (Their words, not mine.)

 

I personally find it a bit offensive. I would accept myself whether I was fat or thin, whether I wore high heels and tight jeans, or sweats and messy hair. So why would I settle for a guy who's going to start feeling sorry for himself as soon as I put on 10 lbs?

 

On another note, it's so funny how my man, of course, likes it when I look good. But not when there's sacrifice involved.. Of course, he wants me to go to the gym. But whenever I don't go, it's because he didn't feel like babysitting. He likes my hair to be nice, but he complains about how it takes so long to blowdry and straighten (as if the whole process is a tea party for me!)

 

Yesterday I even asked him "do you think I sometimes don't take as good of care of myself as I could?" He thought about it and said, "no, just your hair. I wish it was blonde."

me: "yeah? ok, can I book an appointment at the salon to get highlights?"

him: "no way! That's like $100!"

me: "well, yeah...."

him: "why can't you just do it at home?"

me: "you can't go blonde at home. you have to get professional highlights.:

him: "ok, fine. go at the end of the month."

 

...which is what we had budgetted and planned for all along.. These guys are so funny.

 

 

On another note, reading this thread makes me feel a bit hmmm... guilty? I like to take care of myself. I'm one of these people who wears heels to visit the doctor. I like fashion, I wear makeup.. I even have a subscription to InStyle. So, according to this thread, that makes me:

 

a) Just as superficial as these men who are obsessed with appearances. Now, I'm not sure that's true. I enjoy looking good. It makes me happy. However, I would still like and accept myself if I wasn't all dolled up. It doesn't define me as a person. I disagree that reading fashion magazines puts me on the same level as a guy who wants to break up with his gf when she gains 10 lbs.

 

b) It makes me that catty "other" woman. The competition. That's not who I want to be at all. But I know that women see me that way. In fact, it destroyed a friendship recently. This woman's husband is always comparing her to me, telling her she should take care of herself like I do. This woman is beautiful and dresses well and I would give anything to have her body. I'm not big but I have love handles and a flat butt and sagging boobs after having a baby. This woman is bigger than me but she's solid, with hot breasts and a beautiful, round booty. Unfortunately, her husband can't appreciate the beauty that's before his eyes and keeps telling her to get thin like me. It's given her negative feelings toward me (which I totally understand. I would feel the same way) and destroyed our friendship.

 

In my experience, any competition that I've encountered between women was basically caused by men in this way. Two friends who are both beautiful in their own right will encounter a man who compares them and suddenly there are all sorts of insecurities.

[CaptainPlanet]

I suppose this is the same as a thread about girls only looking for money.

 

*Shrug* don't deal in extremes, its stupid.

[Superfreak]

Part of it is society in general rather then just the male gender. When I introduced my ex-g/f to female friends the first thing they'd usally tell me is that "wow, she's very pretty", whereas the response if she introduces me to people she knows would be more along of the lines of "He seems very funny/sweet/nice" etc.

 

I could try to rationalize why this is, but I'm not in the mood right now.

[rocio]

I suppose this is the same as a thread about girls only looking for money.

 

Almost all men seek an attractive woman. Only a few men seek a rich man.

[Gratsy]

That was really your friend's fault for putting up with the husband. I would never take something like that out on a friend. I wouldn't put up with a man who did that. My father did that to me growing up and its hell. I'll never put up with that.

[CaptainPlanet]

Almost all men seek an attractive woman. Only a few men seek a rich man.

 

so do almost all women

[rocio]

That was really your friend's fault for putting up with the husband. I would never take something like that out on a friend. I wouldn't put up with a man who did that. My father did that to me growing up and its hell. I'll never put up with that.

 

I would like to say that I would never put up with that. But never say never. Their situation is complicated. They were married in another country, then he came back to Canada while she stayed there for about a year. In that year, she put on a few pounds. So when she finally came to live with him in Canada, she looked a bit different than when they'd married. He probably didn't act like that when she was more thin. Bottom line, he should never compare her to other women. But she's already married to him and what can she do, other than try to discuss it with him and try to get him to be more respectful? It's not grounds for divorce.

[Gratsy]

I would like to say that I would never put up with that. But never say never. Their situation is complicated. They were married in another country, then he came back to Canada while she stayed there for about a year. In that year, she put on a few pounds. So when she finally came to live with him in Canada, she looked a bit different than when they'd married. He probably didn't act like that when she was more thin. Bottom line, he should never compare her to other women. But she's already married to him and what can she do, other than try to discuss it with him and try to get him to be more respectful? It's not grounds for divorce.

 

I'd divorce him.

[rocio]

Just another rant I wanted to put out there..

 

My baby is 9months old and she's nice and chubby, but there are definitely fatter babies than her. My sister's daughter is underweight. She's 2.5 and weighs only a couple more pounds than my baby. Anyway, my brother recently made a comment that it's better for them to be thin like my neice. He said, "that's the way you want them to be". Now my neice is adorable but my sister has had lots of trouble trying to get her to get at a healthy weight. She's been very sickly because she doesn't eat enough. Why would my brother say that it's better for them to be underweight than to be a healthy chubby weight?

 

Also, my husband has suggested several times that we put our baby on a diet. I have to get doctors and nurses to tell him that breastfed babies are more healthy when they're nice and chubby, that you can't put a baby on a diet, and that it doesn't mean she'll have weight problems later in life.

 

How freaky is that? The little girl is only 9 months old and already the men in her life are wanting her to be thin! Why do men have this thin obsession?

[itsallgrand]

Ok, that's ridiculous! Babies are supposed to be chubby. Chubby baby=cuter baby. (I think so, anyways).

 

A diet for a baby? Really high on something to come up with that out of the blue cause a baby has some, well, baby chub. That's plain not healthy.

 

I'm in no mood to argue, but are you serious about wearing heels to the doctor's office?

 

No mood to argue, but to be frank, when I see women do that, I always wonder "Why?".

 

Even more - to see a female doctor and she is wearing heels. Why?!

 

It doesn't make me feel inadequate, or like it's a competition or anything, it is simply something I don't understand.

 

There are a lot of things people do that I don't understand. I guess.

[Batya33]

I had an eating disorder for several years many years ago. I was able to kick it (with some small traces remaining which are normal/manageable). I promised myself I would never date a man who was critical of what I ate or what I weighed (I have always ranged from thin/too thin to slim - never been overweight) or who was overly focused on thinness. And I would be nauseous in a relationship where he was focused on wanting me to be blonde or get any kind of plastic surgery. I suspect - but have no proof - that those objectively "hot' guys who know they are hot would tend to be more focused on that. At least, I've had several examples of that. Picking the nice looking or cute guy who was normal on that subject was an easy tradeoff for me.

[rocio]

I dunno. Yesterday we had to go quickly to the doctor's office because my baby had a bleeding ear. I wore heels (not high ones, but still..), tight jeans and a designer diaper bag. Does that make me a weirdo? lol... maybe it does. I dunno, when that's just your regular style, I guess it's just as easy to throw on as a pair of sweats and runners. Actually, heels take less time to put on than runners, which is why I wear them more often!