Relationship With X

[Raoul]

I was "hoping" that she would be released from the alien ship and come back to earth. I think she has. I think she has realized that the grass is never greener. I think she misses the "concept" of a family. There is too much ego, too much pride for her to accept that she made a mistake. She doesn't know how to say sorry for destroying a family and changing our lives forever. She doesnt want to lose face with friends and family, for it was she that began the alien spew to everybody I knew 2+ years ago. She does not want to feel guilty for what happened.

 

Benga,

 

While it hurts to hear this, it is exactly what's happening to me, our children, her family and all of our friends. And to her. She's in a shabby apartment, the kids hate going there, they do not like to loser she's taken up with. No one does (except her of course). She goes with 'bad boy' to all family functions. He is always at her place when the children are there. I think she's decided that if people (our children included) don't like him or 'them' that's their problem and they will adjust.

 

And yet, there is an unmistakable sadness in her for the changes she's wrought on everyone that actually knows what happened (that's most people that she can't 'gaslight' anymore). But she is willful and prideful. She does not want to face blowing up a family or feel guilty. So while the alien abduction may be over, her act remains, fueled by her own pride.

 

Thanks for the insight,

Raoul

[John Bendix]

On the back cover of my book:

 

“I envisioned her on her mission of escape as flying a plane to an unknown destination (happiness), realizing she was not going to get there (plan crumbling), but not having enough fuel to go back (past the point of no return), and just keep flying (into oblivion), and all the while denying there was anything wrong with the course she was on.”

 

As you two have written, this may help show that when they get to that "place" they are seeking and it turns out not to be what they imagined, their own emotional issues inhibit them from taking another flight out of there.

 

The fact that they went through such a period of emotional instability (being abducted) effects how they proceed now. I have stated that I think my X has more produced more pain in the aftermath of her efforts to get away then she did in performing her act of escape. She is still too irrational to have any kind of conversation with. She is still lost in her emotional distress.

 

Mine seems to be a exceptionally extreme case in that my kids do not want to interact with her much. No hostility but they just would rather not put up with her irrational and erratic ways. This has caused her a huge amount of suffering. Suffering that has resulted in additional (misplaced) anger towards me, for I am to blame for this. I had even tried to help her with this but she would not listen (because it was me advising her) and simply demanded that they act in the way that she wanted them to.

[Hosedbywife]

In reading the last several threads by Benga & Raoul- it's like you both were living in my house when my wife/life exploded. The similarities are so perfect, you all might be right, that those wives afflicted with "WAS" were abducted by aliens.

 

I have read John's book twice in the past 10 days, what an I eye opener!!

 

When my X left for greener pastures she moved 60 miles from me and took the kids. After 9 months of missing my kids, I moved into an apartment about 9 miles from them just this past weekend.

 

Here is my walkaway's latest antics from this past weekend. She had the kids for the weekend and as you know it was Mother's day on Sunday. I was alone for the weekend getting my place together while she had our kids.

 

I get the first text message from her at 9:00 PM, Sunday night saying "Thanks for the Mother's Day wishes!"

I did not respond.. 20 minutes later I got this text "Okay--why haven't you wished me a happy mothers day today?"

 

Continued into Monday morning: I sent her a text reminder to drop of my kids baseball stuff for practice at school, so I can pick him & the stuff up at the same time. Here is the response from her:

 

"Any reason U did not reply to my texts about mothers day? Is there something going on?"

 

I responded with "was busy and I hope you enjoyed Mother's day with the kids & Happy belated mothers day to ya!"

 

This from a woman who has stated on numerous occasions that she HATES ME! Blames me for her whole life being upside down. Never gave me a card for X-Mas, or any other holiday in the past 18 months during this whole escape period of hers. Although, she did wish me a happy fathers day last year via text. BTW: today would have been our 9th anniversary. Last year before we got divorced I made her a card and gave her a nice vase of flowers. Stupid me!! Her response- "Thanks for the flowers"

 

Had I bothered to send her anything (even a text) about Mothers Day, she would have been thinking... that's good, got him right where I want him...in the background waiting for me, in case things do not work out in the future over here where things are so wonderful and the grass is so green...NOT!

 

She even went as far as sending a basket of fruit to my Mom, who she has not spoken to in over 20 months. Go figure! One thing is for certain- I just have to ignore these things and keep on movin' on. I would love to hear all your comments. Thanks to you all!!

[Raoul]

They become truly boundaryless beings, don't they? Railing at you for not wishing them a happy Mother's Day but not acknowledging you as a human being. Screaming about how its all your fault when they commenced an affair and left the home.

 

Their manipulation skills are truly peerless and ability to distort and conveniently reconfigure reality (not to mention current events and history) infinite.

 

The best I can do is what John did, get away, protect your children and watch in complete amazement. My main emotion about her now is sadness. Yes I worry about my children and the ruinous divorce proceedings. But it is hard to watch a great woman, lover, wife, mother, sister, daughter and friend disintegrate.

 

I wished I believed in karma

 

Best,

Raoul

[John Bendix]

Raoul,

 

It could not have been better said.

[John Bendix]

Hosed,

 

Have you ever tried to hold a conversation with someone who is extremely intoxicated? Especially one that has been been on a lifelong bender? There is no rational exchange and eventually, no matter how calm and rational you try to be, they actually end up getting hostile. They may even begin to blame and degrade you for not being able to understand their gibberish. When they speak of the past, it is delusional and aimed towards exhalting themselves and placing the blame for their life on others.

 

I really do not see much of a difference in the scenario we all fin ourselves in. That is how I felt when I had to speak with my X.

[waveseer]

I agree completely. If I never hear the words "you always blah blah blah blah blah" in a discussion again I will die a happy woman.

[Hosedbywife]

Hosed,

 

Have you ever tried to hold a conversation with someone who is extremely intoxicated? Especially one that has been been on a lifelong bender? There is no rational exchange and eventually, no matter how calm and rational you try to be, they actually end up getting hostile. They may even begin to blame and degrade you for not being able to understand their gibberish. When they speak of the past, it is delusional and aimed towards exhalting themselves and placing the blame for their life on others.

 

I really do not see much of a difference in the scenario we all fin ourselves in. That is how I felt when I had to speak with my X.

 

John- I have tried talking with numerous drunks. It is a huge waste of time and frankly I find those conversations quite brain damaging, just like talking with my X.

 

Thank you for putting it all into the words that make it so easy to understand this mess.

 

As a side note; here is a funny follow up that occurred tonight.

 

Had we stayed married, today would have been our 9th wedding anniversary. At 11:31 PM tonight, she wrote the following text message to me: Happy "wouldve been" anniversary by the way! I did not waste my time with a response, however I thought about the following responses:

 

1. LOL- that's funny coming from the one (that's you) who walked away from our life together. or 2. LOL- that's funny coming from the one (that's you) who wanted a new life without me. or 3. Please! grow up.

 

Anybody wanna toss a few good responses my way, I might change my mind and send her something on Thursday...Maybe.

[Raoul]

'She' was here yesterday to sign some tax forms. I believe that, if she could have done it, she would have held her breath the entire time she was here. Its as if she says anything to me beyond the abo * * * * e minimum, she will die. This from someone I was married to for almost 25 years.

 

We meet again on Friday, in court. This is killing me.

 

Raoul

[Hosedbywife]

'She' was here yesterday to sign some tax forms. I believe that, if she could have done it, she would have held her breath the entire time she was here. Its as if she says anything to me beyond the abo * * * * e minimum, she will die. This from someone I was married to for almost 25 years.

 

We meet again on Friday, in court. This is killing me.

 

Raoul

 

Raoul,

 

I know how you feel man! That's one of the hardest parts to know that you shared your life someone who now cannot stand to be in the same room with you. You can feel the loathing that she has for you coming our of every pore in her body. I know, cause I have been there & done that!

 

I do my best to keep me conversations to the kids and shut up about everything else. Agree with the divorce that she wants, keep smiling around her at all times and move on. Be cool in court on Friday, do not show any sad faces or unhappy emotions at all. Laugh with your lawyer about something stupid the Mets did last night, start her wondering why you seem unphased now. This will make you feel better and you can move on faster too. It sucks- I feel for ya!

Hosed

[Raoul]

You can feel the loathing that she has for you coming our of every pore in her body. I know, cause I have been there & done that!

 

Hosed,

 

Its not just loathing, I sense near terror that she'll explode or collapse if any conversaton occurs.

 

My children sense this too. They have questions for her, sometimes inconvenient questions. When one of the gets the courage to ask, one of two things happens; in response, she: 1) 'goes off', berating them or wailing and crying something like "don't do this to me", or; 2) throws some incomprehensible social noise (but at least not shrieking) that they say no one could understand. This from 17 and 15 year old boys and (worse) our 12 year old daughter. Now this is nowhere near as bad as John's situation, but it scares me for the kids.

 

Thedaps, thanks for your support. How goes things for you?

 

How can we all work together to get (and especially to get our kids) through this? I was hoping to be sane at this point in my life.

 

Raoul

[Hosedbywife]

Raoul,

 

It is so weird that all of us on here are in almost the same exact circumstances. I have long talks with myself while driving somewhere. I then realize when I get to my destination that I cannot recall what route I took to get there, how long it took, etc. It's like being in a trance or like a very bad nightmare that I cannot wake up from. Productivity at work is way down.

 

My X has shown signs of trying to reel me back in again. I will not fall for it, cause I believe my X has a form of BPD. Read the link below. I found this on another ENA thread and thought you might want to check this out too. I also read a book last year called "I hate you, don't leave me". Check that one out too.

 

Remember on Friday to smile in court, don't look sad or unhappy...Fake it! Because they want to see us ground up into S**t dust and you just cannot let them see that. Act perfectly fine with the entire process of divorce...then go home & find a closet to cry your eyes out if you must..

 

Hang in there!!- Hosed (By Wife)

 

Here is the link about BPD: link removed

[John Bendix]

Thought I would share this e-mail (only one I have ever recieved from her!)

I received from X a few moments ago. I have been in strict no-contact for months.

 

"Well Mother's Day has gone by, but do you think the kids care whether they saw me or not. Nope. But you never had respect for me so why would the kids. You have taught them to think that it is not important to be with their mom or that their mom is of no great value. I wonder how they will relate to their future wives if they can not relate to their own mom. But that's right I'm crazy. I guess because you think I am crazy so do they. That is so sad. What has happened between you and I has happened. But do not stop teaching the kids the right thing to do in life they will be lost. If you love them teach them to love,be forgiving, respectand that no matter that their mom will always love them and will always be their mom. Why can not you forget your anger with me and not be selfish and think about our two adult boys and (the youngest)? Let the boys grow up. I have tried to talk to you so that we could still communicate for the sake of the boys and coparenting, but you would not allow that. (The youngest) still has issues about spending the night or spending the time with me. This bothers me that he will not spend the night anywhere. His actions and anxiety are mostly learned behavior and I have taken him to the therapist to try to change how he feels. I hope that his feelings will change. And that one day they will realize that they never lost their mom like you say, but realized the time they have lost by not being with her. (her name)"

 

I cannot explain to you how full this is of faulty assumptions, misrepresentations, and untruths there are to be found.

 

My response? None. I see no need to defend myself to her. I have a tear in my eye remembering a once good woman, wife and mother.

[Mutley]

My response? None. I see no need to defend myself to her. I have a tear in my eye remembering a once good woman, wife and mother.

 

Sorry. I know that must really be painful.

 

I've experienced similiar insanity.

[Raoul]

John,

 

Wow! I've gotten lectures just like this (you cannot call them 'talks' or 'conversation' because they are monologues in a tongue I don't comprehend.

 

I go to great lengths to explain to my kids that their mother loves them, always has and always will. But her behavior is odd on good days and scary on other days. My oldest has asked "if we can have Mom tested for drugs". My daughter said that "Mom doesn't understand that what she told me means that she is really sef-centered". This from a 12-year old!

 

Let me get this straight - She wants to go out 1-3 times a week 'til 2,3 in the morning (even when I'm out of town on business), go to country music concerts (where I get the tickets but am not invited) on weekends 'til 2'3 in the morning. The day after any of these means she's a basket case the next day because she drank too much and got 4 hours sleep.

 

She wants a low-life, unemployed, mutlitple dui, bad boy lover and the comforts of home and financial security. She wants to lie to everyone she knows (our children, me, her mother, sisters, our friends) about what she's doing. She says I do nothing but I cook, clean, do laundry, shuttle the kids and (by the way) make 8 times as much money she does. That about right? BUT, I'm the one who isn't worthy of her, that she loves but isn't in love with. I'm the one who ruined the marriage.

 

Sound familiar to anyone?

 

Raoul

[lostandhurt]

All to familiar Roul.

There will always be people that think we are making up these behavoirs and aren't telling the whole story. We know the truth and our children will come to know it as well. Hopefully their futures will not be scarred to deeply by the rants of their mothers.

 

This is the saddest part of it all when a 12 yr old can see it but they will not.....

 

Lost

[Raoul]

thedaps,

 

I think that they give up long before we can sense or see it. Early on as my marriage began to 'auger-in', I read somewhere that 'once women are done, they really are done'. Finding that was painful but also a source of strength because I had to face the possibility of it. I don't think it was a case of watching for it and therefore seeing it. Knowledge is power.

 

When you realize that they really are gone (and how really gone they are), its like being in a room with all the air sucked out of it. It may look hospitable, but you'll die if you stay there.

 

As hard as it may be, can you help her leave and sooner rather than later? Because so long as you're together, she has the benefit of you as training wheels and safety net. What she needs is the 'reality therapy' that only being on her own, or (more painfully for you) with another can bring. She cannot have a sense of your marriage at present. This is hard, it is fraught with risk and laden with pain for you. But they have these delusions about how perfect the world will be without you in it. Best they get to what its really like as soon as they can.

 

Best,

Raoul

[Raoul]

I trust that you did not send this. Maybe at some future point. Right now, you need to give her space and time so that she can come to full grips with her decision. If you want to be her training wheels and safety net, sending her this will accomplish that. It will also assure that she continues to move away from you as she's in a no risk position.

 

You've never said, is there another man in her life

 

Raoul

[Raoul]

Thedaps,

 

Don't worry. Its safe to say that you've done what nearly everyone (including me) has done when faced with your situation.

 

The message she needs to get from you is that she can have her 'space' but that whe will do that without you being there for her. That can start now. This is called variously, most frequently as No Contact (NC) or a 180. This idea has two beneifts:

1) You will invest the time you were using with her to build yourself into the kind of person you want to be. You've made a good start with this by redefining your work role so that you could be a better family man. That may morph into being a great Dad, given the cicrumstances. You should adopt a physical fitness regime too as it helps mood, improves self-image and generally puts focus on where it belongs - on you. Add to this things that you've put off doing because you were and are so busy. find things to do that you enjoy that help you to discover your emotional, mental, physical and (if you're so inclined) spiritual centers. You cannot be your best unless you're working on being your best you.

2) Gives her the gift of missing you. No union as long as yours can be dismissed entirely. She needs time to remember the things that tieed you together. She cannot see them now. She has rewritten your history as mostly bad and is focused on getting away from you. In time, (and that may be a long time and maybe never) she will begin to recall better things about the realtionship, but not if you're 'in her face' and fighting for the relationship. You need not and should not be rude about this. But if the relationship is to be discussed, best to let her raise that if and when she's ready. Be cordial, be brief and be open. Just let her decide to bring up the collective 'us'.

 

Best to go into this with #1 as your goal with #2 as a wish and a hope for the future.

 

This is counterintuitive stuff. But it really is your best shot to stay sane, build some immunity to the chaos around you and perhaps make yourself mre attractive to her.

 

You can do this,

Raoul

[John Bendix]

I have to add one thing about NC. I went into this mode before I even knew it had a name. I had already given my X space when she was still living with us. I did not pester her, ask her anything, etc.

 

I went N/C after she left and I realized that I did not want to be in the toxic environment that she had built. Hostility, manipulation, selfishness, anger, personal and unwarranted attacks, etc., were not going to be a part of my life, anymore. Receiving all of that for months, trying to help her, and staying calm as one would do for someone in a disturbed state of mind, was not getting her actions or reactions more rational.

[Hosedbywife]

To John- that email your X sent to you seemed really like my X sent it to you instead. Scary to me that they way it is phrased looks just like my X wrote it.

 

To Raoul- You are right on the money about what comes forth out of their mouths. These words really are monologues in a tongue that are not easy to be comprehended by a sane person. I hear this dribble repeated like a broken record, the re-writing of history, the devaluing of me & our former marriage/ relationship & our lives together.

 

The strangest thing to me is why are all of our stories so similar? I mean, think about this for a second. If these women were a product that we all purchased from a company, we would be sending them back in one by one for repair because they turned out to be defective in that they seem to go hay wire at some point during the warranty period and the results were complete brain fade/ loss of human emotion/ dysfunctional behavior and the list goes on... Imagine this a step further once the word got out that many others around the world were having the same exact problems with there product (women). The company would be forced to issue a notice of recall because of a latent defect in the women that it manufactured. The reports would come flooding in about numerous catastrophic breakdowns of this product that led to unwanted life changes for the surrounding family. The women involved in these breakdowns really never seem to notice the destruction that occurred or did they ever really care about anything except their own happiness. I WANT A REFUND PLEASE! They can have my X back!!

 

Hosedbywife

[Raoul]

Back when (I thought that) I was a happily married spouse, I used to hear stories from friends and acquaintances (men and women) about marital breakups. It was irrational to me that one party always seemed to be completely 'around the bend' while the other seemed rather normal. It does not seem possible that its really this way - one sane, the other crazy.

 

I still think that those of us who seem sensible may be missing something important in how breakups develop and unfold. But, given my (and our collective) experiences, I have no idea what I missed and cannot determine the causes and reasons now.

 

This confusion is a big part of my angst.

 

I know that I didn't start the affair, write off the marriage, family, home, friends, life, but the questons WHAT DID I MISS AND WHY? are very much part of my constant thoughts.

 

That most breakups and divorces seem this way (one okay, the other frantic) cannot be right, can it?

 

Yours in confusion,

Raoul

[John Bendix]

Yes, I am sorry but it can seem that way. Actually, both parties can engage in this type of emotionally dysfunctional interaction and both simply walkaway but it is never noted because both parties have a wall up and never relate their situations to anyone. Other to tell friends and family that he/she was jerk.

 

The party under such emotional distress cannot see past their own "needs" to begin to understand what the other is going through or have room forany compassion. They are usually in self protection and emotional survival modes and have little room for anything but themselves and the attempt to enhance their ego which they perceive as vulnerable 24/7.

 

I, too, struggled with "what did I miss?". Hence, the change of perspective of the world. We are seeking rational answers in an irrational situation. IF you ask someone walking down the street, "Do you have the time?", and they answer, "The boat is at the dock.", you leave that person knowing that you cannot have a rational exchange of words. When it comes to your intimate partner, with whom you have held thousands of responsive conversations, and receive the same type of non-response, you question it and proceed to try and "make sense" with them.

 

It seems that we are trying to communicate with someone in a different mental/emotional state. One with which we are not used to dealing. It seems "alien" to us.

[Raoul]

John,

 

Thanks as always.

 

I got used to the confusion, dissembly and lies. After I found out about the other man, I got her out of the house. It still hurts but at least I don't have to hear it.

 

But she's still lying to everyone else, especially our children. I had a long talk with our 12-year old daughter this morning. (She refused to go to her mother's yesterday - our agreed weekly transition day) saying she'd go today. Now she's balking at that). When I asked her why, one of the things she said is that Mom lies constantly to her and her brothers. When I asked for an expample, she said "you know when I call Mommy and she says she's alone. Well you can hear (OM) talking to her right there." They know that this guy lives there when they're not staying with her. Yet she denies it.

 

How do you deal with this? I struggle with telling the kids that 'Mom loves you and wants the best for you. She just can't live here." But none of them trust her or believe her. And this is so corrosive to them (forget me!)

 

All our lives, we struggled to raise our children with values, standards and expectations. Now she lies to them as if it is nothing. What do I do?

 

Raoul

[John Bendix]

"How do you deal with this? I struggle with telling the kids that 'Mom loves you and wants the best for you. She just can't live here." But none of them trust her or believe her. And this is so corrosive to them (forget me!)

 

All our lives, we struggled to raise our children with values, standards and expectations. Now she lies to them as if it is nothing. What do I do?"

 

Raoul,

 

I struggled with this when the X walked out. It was hard to tell what should be done. The courts were telling me that I had to "force" my youngest to go spend time with her during the arranged visitations. If I did not then I was a bad parent and the court could take him away. I told them to do just that but I would hold them responsible any additional emotional damage that ensued from that decision.

 

My X started coming over to pick him up. She was all sweet and smilies but he, nicely but flatly, refused to go with her. I took him over a couple of times, he said hello but would not stay. He told me he would just walkway if he was forced to stay, He never stayed with her in three years. My adult sons, who live with me also, interact with her rarely.

 

I leave them to have any relationship with their mother that they want without any interference on my part.

 

The part where the court tells you that you "have" to talk with your X, be nice to her when you see her in front of the kids, tell the kids good things about her, and so on, seems so forced and phoney to me. Mind you, I have not argued with my X at any time, and not in front of the kids, since before she started her irrational behavior. They will not really discuss her to me very much but I'll listen, or with each other. I have told them many times that I still loved her and missed her and the family that we once had.

 

They know she lies, cares only about what is her best interest, acts phoney around them, and as you can see from the e-mail, tries to use guilt and berates them (and me). They have always seen through it. They seem to think that I am genuine and honest. That is all that I can do.