Relationship With X

[John Bendix]

I have said before that I felt like a criminal out on probation because I was going through A Divorce with Children (name for a new TV sitcom? j/k). I was questioned, processed, made to sign testimonies, agreed to "lesser terms", forced to defend my actions, etc., just as if I had commited a criminal offense. I had to put up a "defense" for my and my children's financial well being.

 

I had to watch every move I made in order to not have some social worker come and tell me that they were going to take my kids away. I was told that I had no right to keep a county social worker from entering my house, at any time of day or night, because I had custody of MY children.

 

I was told in my final decree of divorce how I had to act around my X, around my children, how to put up a chores list in my house for my kids to do (not kidding! It is in the standard decree), and other invasions of my right to raise my family.

 

I forgive my X ("Forgive them, for they know not what they do") for what she put me and the kids through but I will not let it happen to us again.

[John Bendix]

One of things I see as I look at the WAS situation is that the hard time most everyone has with accepting change. Not just the change in the relationship, there is change in ourselves, change in our lifestyle, change in our partner, etc.

 

In attempting to talk out our differences with our X or STBX, there is an attempt to relate to them as we have always. In most cases, we appeal to their reasonable side, their compassion, try to use deductive reasoning, and so on, as we have done before.

 

Problem is that that no longer works. The attempts hit a wall. Sometimes a wall of heavily emotional reactions such as hostility. It does not get through. It becomes a series of frustrating attempts to get throuh to the person that has been presented to us for a long time. We cannot understand why we cannot seem to get them to even comprehend what we are trying to say.

 

We have not accepted that we are dealing with someone very different. Our communication lines have been cut and re-wired in a much different way. A way that is unfamiliar. We search through the "fog" for another way but it seems that we go run into another wall.

[chrisparq]

john gives a lot of good insight, but not the golden apple of a successful way of reaching them and getting them to come home

[John Bendix]

john gives a lot of good insight, but not the golden apple of a successful way of reaching them and getting them to come home

 

I apologize for not being able to do this for you or myself. If I could do that, I would be the talk of the counseling profession. It is one of the reasons that I have just applied to get my masters in community counseling.

 

The therapsits, counselors, psychologists, psychiatrists, and doctors, that I have interviewed have all admitted to be at a loss on how to do this. The "wall" that has been established by most people (in all aspects of life) is one of the toughest nuts to crack by any therapist. It is the main goal of therapy.

 

Justing getting someone to admit that they may need therapy is huge breakthrough. Denial is a powerful, yet dysfunctional, defense mechanism.

 

One therapist recently told me that she had a patient that has been in her charge for over four years and has just got her to acknowledge that she has a wall established. This, of course, is just another step on the road to helping her see the way out of suffering.

[lostandhurt]

Hey guys and Girls,

 

Well my son had another surgery on his leg and is in a partial body cast so he will be staying with me again for 5 whole weeks solid while I care for him. I took off last year for the surgery on the other leg just like this year.

The stbx visits him frequently which is not much fun for me to say the least but I can say it is better than last year. Acceptance has brought that to me.

A problem arose out of her showing up and staying all day and while I waited in the wings to help my son. Make him lunch and leave the room, help him use the bathroom and leave the room, pick him up and move him and leave the room. I finally had enough and spoke to the stbx while she was leaving. I approached this with a plan. No emotion just calm words. I told her that I didn't think it was right for her to monopolize our son while I wait to get a few moments with him. I didn't make demands and when she became angry I simply told her that I was pointing out what I thought wasn't fair, nothing more, nothing less. She then angrily asked if she could take him to her house which I simply answered with a question "can you care for him?" (he is over 80 lbs and needs to be picked up often). She was still upset when I told her that I just wanted to let her know how I felt about the situation.

The next day and the day after she has been much more considerate to my time with our son. I have found that just putting things (my thoughts) out there and letting her think about it instead of reacting to them gets way better results.

I still don't like her in this house but our son needs his mother.

 

We all must learn of ways to deal with our ex's when children are involved. This might not work for you but it is worth a shot.

 

My son is doing great by the way.

 

Lost

[Raoul]

We have not accepted that we are dealing with someone very different. Our communication lines have been cut and re-wired in a much different way. A way that is unfamiliar. We search through the "fog" for another way but it seems that we go run into another wall.

 

John,

 

As usual, you're right. It is dealing with someone that "is very different" than you've known for 28 years that I find so difficult to grasp, understand and accept. The "person presented to me for a long time" is gone. I wish she would come back and am willing to fail at the effort if it ever comes. That is so strange that I'm not surprised its difficult to see or deal with. After all, we are looking at the same person, they just are (apparently) a wholly different person inside.

 

Chris, I respect your point by find it a bit sharp. Some problems don't have solutions. But if they do, its likley that understanding will precede them.

 

I find it easier to accept where I am and how to deal with the wreckage and prospects for my children and me. That ease would not be possible without having a map drawn by John and filled in (incomplete though it may be) by others here. It is an imperfect map of a strange land anf the most frustrating place any of us has ever been in. But it is way better than no map at all.

 

Raoul

[John Bendix]

Lost,

 

Once again, I applaud your efforts at being genuine.

 

Of course, there is a way of saying something to someone that you feel needs to be said without trying to make yourself look right and the other look wrong. This is doing it without the egoic need to be right or superior.

 

I am glad to hear that your son got through the 2nd operation and is doing fine.

 

In my view, the hostility that your wife showed when confronted, even in a peaceful way, indicates self absorbtion. I could be wrong. You could have stayed in the room with your son while she was there. I would not have just as you chose not to do. It would have seemed too ingenuine and a false appearance of a family intact. My X, as well as many others, has chosen not to have that and I would not have portrayed that to my son.

 

The family court believes that that is exactly how you are supposed to conduct yourselves. Act as though everything is great between the former partners. I, for one, will not give my kids a false image on which to build their lives on.

[John Bendix]

Raoul,

 

You give me too much credit. I still, at times, miss my family as it was and my X as she was before, but I accept those emotions when they arise. Realise that they are my creation and mine to deal with. No one else causes them.

 

We are all different people every moment in comparison to just a short time ago. This is something that we need to accept in ourselves and others. If I learned anything it is that everything changes. It is more difficult to accept people (that we have known for a long time) changing in such a radical way, but it still needs to be accepted. Any other way to me, is irrational and dysfunctional. Learning this, as well as many other factors of life, is indeed on a learning curve.

[lostandhurt]

If you read above about me dealing with my stbx visiting while I take care of my son you will understand. If not read above.

 

After speaking with her about monopolizing my son's time the ex suddenly just quit coming by. She calls and does pop in for a few minutes (always calling first) but went from one extreme to another. I never told her she couldn't stay with him, I just told her maybe 4 hours a day would be more fair to me.

 

Well this morning the answer became clear. While my son was talking to his mother on the phone I heard him say "who else is there with you?" It turns out it is her bf daughters. She is baby sitting them since school is out.

Now at first I started to become a little angry that she chose his daughters over our son. Realizing what I was doing in my mind I quickly started thinking not of the negative, but of the positive. I did not want her here anyways and did it really matter why she wasn't here? No it didn't. True it was sad she would do such a thing but it didn't surprise me at all.

In the end I have my son close to me as he recovers and I don't have to deal with having her here and everything that goes along with it.

 

We all have the power to see things for what they are. Peering through all the crap our minds put in the way is the trick.

I am learning to do just that.......

 

Lost

[John Bendix]

Lost,

 

We all need to do more of this. Seeing through our thoughts and emotions in order that they do not dominate (through our egos) our decison making processes. By simply becoming aware of our incessant thoughts and resulting emotions from a better "perspective", they cease to rule our actions and reactions.

[John Bendix]

I am going the Edgar Cayce route and predict my X's next series of actions without ever been in contact with her. Her birthday (49) is this weekend and she will start some sort of drama about it. She will probably drive my kids crazy in trying to get them to spend this time with her. As the kids tell me, her attempts at being with them is entirely attempted through guilt.

 

The birthday will probably run her emotional reactions up high. 50 should put her over the top! She was so worried about getting old when she left. The last mid-life crisis was a bute. Fortunately, I will not be around to see this one but I am sure I will hear about it from the kids. Irrationality will be the theme.

 

I hope that I am wrong but the patterns are there to go in that direction. I might even blamed for her being this old and unhappy.

[Raoul]

John,

 

I've not doubt that you will see something here and you don't need to be psychic to predict it. Birthdays, anniversaries, holidays and such are triggers for us all. For most of us, these are times for reflection. The more broken among us have problems reflecting and so project instead.

 

I am convinced that in addition to seeing our marriage as unsatisfying and being unwilling or unable to work on it, my wife's 50th birthday and perhaps some midlife and pre-monopause issues (and especially the death of her father - all in 2008) combined to send her over the edge.

 

Birth dates, general holidays and the like remind you of where you were last year at this time and of time's steady march. Combine that with no ability or willingness to confront internal demons and you have the perfect recipe for acting out.

 

But forewarned is forearmed. So you can 'batten down the hatches' for the storm ahead. Bon chance.

 

Raoul

[lostandhurt]

John I find I must be ever diligent. I know it must get easier....right?

A few moments of clarity bring days of peace so it is well worth the effort.

 

Raoul,

The are just days to me now. My wedding anniversary passed by without much thought on my part. The marriage is long since dead. As time passes I have learned to be more realistic about these things. Honestly, I do look forward to making happy memories......

 

Lost

[John Bendix]

Lost,

 

When you say diligent, in what way? If you mean awareness of what your thoughts and emotional readctions are, then, to me, that is a good thing. If it means your attention is on what could happen then it may be taking your concentration awat on what is going on right now.

 

What gets easier? When I accept things as they are right now, it seems to be naturally easy or still. When full acceptance is not there, drama and the unpleasant emotions prevail and the "easiness" or stillness is covered over.

[lostandhurt]

John,

 

YES!

I think it should come like breathing. I would like it to be like my heartbeat, without thought.

I am on guard against the thoughts that do no good. The thoughts that feed other bad thoughts and so on. I ask myself often "what good will come from this line of thought" It is strange to have to remind yourself how to think, but until it is second nature and permeates my being I will endeavor towards that end.

 

Lost

[John Bendix]

John,

 

YES!

I think it should come like breathing. I would like it to be like my heartbeat, without thought.

I am on guard against the thoughts that do no good. The thoughts that feed other bad thoughts and so on. I ask myself often "what good will come from this line of thought" It is strange to have to remind yourself how to think, but until it is second nature and permeates my being I will endeavor towards that end.

 

Lost

 

You are not reminding yourself how to think. You are processing the world at a higher level of awareness. You are seeing through your thoughts and emotions. Seeing them for what they really are, just fleeting thoughts and emotions, and not who you are. Seeing them from a higher self, of being. Congrats-

 

So, "good" things can come out of "bad"?

[thistime]

I was told by a couselor that, it isnt so much how your kids see your relationship with your ex now that makes the difference, it's later on, when they are adults, and can look back and say know, Mom was oretty crappy to Dad or us most of the time, but Dad never went down to her level..never said a bad word about her to us, and always tried to help us understand that she probably didnt know she was hurting us that badly' they will get it, as they get older,l and have respect for you. I know its not easy...i am divorced with a 12 yr old whos father is remarried to someone who does not treat my daighter very well, but I always try...not alwys perfectly...to take the high road and not bash him in front of her. we try to work together in her best interest, even tho there are times I wanna smack him...be true to yourself and the person you need your kids to see. You'll do fine. I swear at mine under my breath in the shower...that helps!

[John Bendix]

Well, I anticipated something but it was not that bad.

 

My X's birthday is today and I got a phone call from a different number than hers. I answered it and she sai that she wanted ask me a question about my youngest's summer schedule. She had dinner last night with him so she had already asked him but needed to ask me.

 

THEN, it turned into her calmly and rationally how she can get the kids to want to see her more. I have told her quite a few times in the last 2 years what she was doing was not working and needed to be honest and compassionate as they are with her. Same old tune of mine that she refused to listen to. She listened calmly and agreed. She went into some of the problems that she had ith our former relationship but I cut that short by saying that I have learned from my mistakes from the past and did not want to beat a dead horse as I have said the same things I had said before.

 

I told her that I accepted her decisions and no longer want to judge them or her for making them. That the kids were the only issue but thashe would have to deal with that. She said she wanted my help with this but that I had never done so.

 

I did not go into how I tried to help and she would not listen, or how she was blaming me for the relationship she had with kids (non-acceptance of responsibility of her actions), or that she was irrational in her approach, etc. What good would that do?

 

Fortunately (j/k) my cell battery went out in mid sentence and I was 1 1/2 hrs frm home with no car charger. It did not turn hostile on her part or it least it did not have time to go that way.

 

Just FYI.

[scornandtorn]

Fortunately (j/k) my cell battery went out in mid sentence and I was 1 1/2 hrs from home with no car charger. It did not turn hostile on her part or it least it did not have time to go that way.Just FYI.

 

Thanks for the update John. Is this because you have learned the "predictable outcome" or is it because your battery really died?

 

Things are still quiet on my storm front. However, every single day when I walk to my mailbox or the phone rings I anticipate another contact from her (which is prohibited by the court) that is totally fabricated by her to bring out the worst in me. Just like the old days prior to the protective order.

[John Bendix]

Thanks for the update John. Is this because you have learned the "predictable outcome" or is it because your battery really died?

 

Things are still quiet on my storm front. However, every single day when I walk to my mailbox or the phone rings I anticipate another contact from her (which is prohibited by the court) that is totally fabricated by her to bring out the worst in me. Just like the old days prior to the protective order.

 

Good to hear from Scorn!

 

No, it was real. My battery did go out. I started laughing because I figured she thought that I just got tired of the conversation (which was really one of the few rational ones) and just hung up.

 

She did call my phone while it was out and meekly left the message, "I just wanted to see if you tried to call me back and could not get through". The ego really likes to twist things around to protect itself.

 

Sorry Scorn, but if I were you I would not give her that much thought. Let her bring out the best in you by letting whatever she says, or writes, go right through you.

[lostandhurt]

John,

I have lived much of what you described. I got the "we never really talked about us" after she choose the bf over our family. I stopped her cold and told her there was no reason bring up all that hurt. Our marriage is over, no reason talking now. I got a few buts until I walked away.

I don't see how any of us could help our ex's without being accused of being controlling or something else negative even for the children. It seems they are so unwilling to face the truth that it will haunt them for a very long time.

I am glad I have come so far.

My ex was just here to visit my son. I have him full time while he recovers from the surgery and she visits.....sometimes. She pops in for 30 minutes and I wait in the other room and then she leaves with out saying a word. She just left me a note listing the things I will need to bring to the first mediation meeting. It is info that is in the divorce filing and she has everything I have anyways.

 

Sometimes things work out in a good way like having your phone die at just the right time.

 

Scorn,

Nice to see you are doing well. Hopefully the anticipation of doom from her will pass and your life will be yours fully.

 

Lost

[Raoul]

I've tried to own my 50% of our marriage and its issues. But I cannot and will not accept responsibility for how its ending. Those were choices she made in silence where I was tried, found guilty and executed in absentia and out of sight.

 

To now hear (mostly from others because she cannot talk to me) that 'I'm indifferent' to her, that she had all kinds of issues, questions and opinions about 'us' that I never heard until after she left. This pisses me off, makes me sad and renders me stupid. It leaves no chance for redress or anything else.

 

I am trying to accept it, let it go and move on. But damn its hard, especially with children to raise and a divorce to conclude along with the static in my brain and heart.

 

Raoul

[John Bendix]

I'm with you Raoul.

 

Sorry to tell you that there will always be a bit of drama popping up now and again.

 

When they say things about you to other people (including the children) in regards to how you treat them or deal with them, it may be an indication that they have conflict issues. To me, cognitive dissonance is an issue that they do not deal very well with at all. They use the same dysfunctional coping mechanisms that got them into such emotional distress. In this way, their conflicts are never resolved.

 

My son's therapist once told me that the dissolution of an intimate relationship was a 50/50 proposition. That both parties contribute equally to its demise. I disagreed, though I did not discount my responsibility in but not to the degree that she was suggesting. I gave her a copy of my book and left. I am not looking to blame or who is right and who did what but when it came to life altering decisions, I really did not have much of a say.

 

Just another update. After the battery incident, she came to my house at 9:00 am and called me. I did not answer as I saw her car parked in front and I went outside. She did not get out and just yelled, "Is (our youngest) home from football camp yet?". I said I do not know but I'll go look upstairs. I got my son and we went down and she was gone with some food on the front porch. I called her later to ask what happened. She answered the phone with, "YEAH", as in pi**ed off. I said, "Hello" and she replied, "YEAH, what?, again with hostility. I guess said, "Never mind" and hung up.

 

A reason for the hostility? No idea. MY son suggested that she was made that I did not wish her a Happy B-day the day she called (which it was). She has not recognized any of my days, B-day, Fathers, X-mas, etc. Any B-day greeting I had given her after she left was ignored.

[John Bendix]

Lost,

 

I have not had we never really talked speech bc she did not want to talk. "There is nothing you can say, I do not trust you or believe you." This did not stop her from the few phone calls that I answered from her to tell me the things that I did wrong to her, in her view. I have apologized for mine many times but not one word of remorse or responsibility for her actions, to either me or the kids, has ever left her lips. In her emotional state I guess it would be too much to take on. Plays the victim very well, even to the kids.

 

They have chosen to live behind the wall but condemn it when it does suit their purposes. The shameless quote from brother Scorn fits in here nicely.

[Raoul]

A reason for the hostility? No idea. MY son suggested that she was made that I did not wish her a Happy B-day the day she called (which it was). She has not recognized any of my days, B-day, Fathers, X-mas, etc. Any B-day greeting I had given her after she left was ignored.

 

John,

Exactly!

- When my WW found out I was dating, the quote was "it sure didn't take him long!" This after she'd been in an affair for at least six months before she moved out, plus a couple of months after that.

 

- No cards, no recognition of any kind from her through the holidays, my birthday, our anniversary or other occsions. But to her mother she says "he ignores me". * * * ! I stopped sending her cards when I never even heard if she got them.

 

Still, Iam a putz. Tonight when I dropped my daughter off, I had just bought a case of wine and pulled a bottle for my daughter to give to her Mom.

 

OWA TAJER KIAM!

 

Raoul