At what age does being a PUA get creepy?

[JadedStar]

That's my point. All guys learning PUA aren't soley about notching the bedpost. In fact, I'd say that more PUA students are about relationships as they were formerly clueless individuals whom desperately wanted a girlfriend but had no idea how to attract one. The guys "notcing their bedpost" in my experience have almost exclusively been guys whom have always been able to do this. My brothers friend Rob for one. He coudln't tell you one single thing about PUA, yet all he does is go out, meet girls, and try to get them into bed. My brothers other friend Jon had never kissed a girl until 20 (by this time Rob has had sex with over 40 girls) and Jon studied PUA to meet the right girl.

 

That's all we're trying to say. PUA material doesn't equal out to "bed post notchers". To exclusively define PUA as material for that is unfair.

 

 

There is something about a man who considers himself a "student" of being a PUA that just makes me feel he lacks maturity or at a minimum lacks dating experience and savvy. That in itself is not enough to knock anyone, but it is what it is.

 

Seriously, agree with me or disagree but it really does. I get these images of the poor guy who keeps getting turned down night after night at the bar so he resorts to hiring a teacher to teach him some slick one liners for better success.

 

If this helps him achieve his goal of finding a date, more power to him. But I definitely advise he keep it to himself and not let the women he is pursuing know all of this or yeah, it will feel very creepy to her.

 

It is what it is guys.

[Dating Coach]

PUAs don't love, they seduce. If that's the fate a woman thinks she deserves, she may have it... but not from me.

 

Somebloke, you're yet again adding huge generalizations and prejudice. We've tried unsuccessfully to draw you into a conversation but you've decided you don't want to do that. So why are you continuing on this thread? Please, if you are going to participate then participate. Being close-minded isn't adding anything positive. I'd love to discuss this topic if you are willing to discuss it but so far you havent. What is your purpose?

[dietrying]

Why is the term PUA so affectionately used?

 

Shouldn't there be a more attractive word for it considering you're targeting women? I know it's a turn off to me.

[tylercdurden2004]

This is what I get out of it also. What happened to good old-fashioned Gentlemanly ways? Not sleazy and cheesy 'techniques' in order rack up a list of successful chat-ups attempts.

 

Sigh.

 

Brings me back to the discussions we've had on here before now about 'Players'...

 

Watch some old timey moving like Cary Grant movies. Good stuff. Gentlemanly stuff. But somehow he just seemed to be able to chat up women and well get them.

 

I think its goes beyond just attempts. Some of these guys are successful.

[Dating Coach]

There is something about a man who considers himself a "student" of being a PUA that just makes me feel he lacks maturity or at a minimum lacks dating experience and savvy. That in itself is not enough to knock anyone, but it is what it is.

 

So it's the term itself that is bringing up the "knee jerk" reaction? What if we relabeled it... "a student of improving social skills"? It could be the same thing just under a different label if that is what is keeping you with that negative vibe.

 

Seriously, agree with me or disagree but it really does. I get these images of the poor guy who keeps getting turned down night after night at the bar so he resorts to hiring a teacher to teach him some slick one liners for better success.

 

So it's just the images you attached to "Pick up Artist" and not the actual content. Because you can learn from someone like Mystery and not be anything like that poor guy at the bar.

 

If this helps him achieve his goal of finding a date, more power to him. But I definitely advise he keep it to himself and not let the women he is pursuing know all of this or yeah, it will feel very creepy to her.

 

It is what it is guys.

 

I understand. I think it's unfair but I understand. Perhaps if meeting women were an easy thing for shy guys or guys lacking social skills then such a thing wouldn't be necessary. Unfortunately it's the order of our world.

My fiance' was watching The Pick Up Artist with me and she was saying how she cannot fathom what it must be like to be those guys and feel the hurt that they felt. Look at Spoon on the show. He simply started a conversation by introducing himself to a group of girls and they were HARSH. It affected him so badly that he cried the next time he was asked to go back into the club and "open a set" (open a conversation with a group). This is not uncommon, just look at these forums and the same guys are here asking for help. My fiance' was telling me just how thankful she is that she never had to deal with that kind of pressure and embarrassment. I don't think a lot of women actually understand how hard it is for shy and socially lacking guys. It's dreadful. It's why I praise guys trying to help them.

[Dating Coach]

Why is the term PUA so affectionately used?

 

Shouldn't there be a more attractive word for it considering you're targeting women? I know it's a turn off to me.

 

Probably. I am not affectionate towards it. The label was there before me. I'm just using the name it was given.

[tylercdurden2004]

Why is the term PUA so affectionately used?

 

Shouldn't there be a more attractive word for it considering you're targeting women? I know it's a turn off to me.

 

Yes for you and Jaded I introduce the new term:

 

Men-who-formerly-had-trouble-but-now-will-approach-you-so-you-can-decide-if-they-are-want-you-want.

 

Not too sext but very decriptive.

 

Again its all about your choice. So why do you care.

[JadedStar]

I understand. I think it's unfair but I understand. Perhaps if meeting women were an easy thing for shy guys or guys lacking social skills then such a thing wouldn't be necessary. Unfortunately it's the order of our world.

My fiance' was watching The Pick Up Artist with me and she was saying how she cannot fathom what it must be like to be those guys and feel the hurt that they felt

 

This is why I don't label these guys bottom feeders or pervs or any other labels that get thrown their way because yes, I do understand it must be a huge blow to keep getting turned down time and time again.

 

I just don't really agree with some of the articles and such that I have seen during my life that schools guys on how to be a pick up artist. I think the tactics relayed are gimmicky and can be viewed as sleazy or cheesy by women.

 

But I don't knock the guys who are trying very hard to make it work because they just want to get some decent dates.

 

But there are some pick up artists who do not fall into this group of men. They are just serious womanizers and want to learn every trick in the book to get them some unsuspecting female in a vulnerable and compromising position. Some of these guys are pick up artists too.

 

PUA's are not created equal.

[JadedStar]

Again its all about your choice. So why do you care.

 

Because this is a thread and a debate, and interesting discussion.

 

Tyler, your posts and concepts normally mirror mine, or at a minimum I find myself definitely agreeing with your concepts. I find myself giving you rep points sometimes to the point I get that little message saying I have to spread it around before giving you more, but evenso the fact that we disagree on the semantics of PUA is not all that surprising because even people who stay on point a lot disagree some of the time.

[tylercdurden2004]

I just don't really agree with some of the articles and such that I have seen during my life that schools guys on how to be a pick up artist.

 

Jaded this is the crux of why I even got involved in this argument.

 

There have been constant generalizations that:

 

1) All PUA just want sex and nothing more.

 

2) All PUA are creepy.

 

3) All PUA want notches in their bedposts.

 

4) All PUA want ....ad naseum

 

 

It isnt rational arguing. But as you have mentioned above you dont really agree with SOME.

[tylercdurden2004]

Because this is a thread and a debate, and interesting discussion.

 

Tyler, your posts and concepts normally mirror mine, or at a minimum I find myself definitely agreeing with your concepts. I find myself giving you rep points sometimes to the point I get that little message saying I have to spread it around before giving you more, but evenso the fact that we disagree on the semantics of PUA is not all that surprising because even people who stay on point a lot disagree some of the time.

 

You have totally confused me here.

 

I think I need that beer you owe me. *cough cough*

[Daddy Bear]

Somebloke, you're yet again adding huge generalizations and prejudice. We've tried unsuccessfully to draw you into a conversation but you've decided you don't want to do that. So why are you continuing on this thread? Please, if you are going to participate then participate. Being close-minded isn't adding anything positive. I'd love to discuss this topic if you are willing to discuss it but so far you havent. What is your purpose?

The personal attacks that you're fond of making don't win arguments. If you disagree with my definition of PUA, show me one that refutes it. Don't ever tell me where I can post or what I can say.

[dietrying]

Yes for you and Jaded I introduce the new term:

 

Men-who-formerly-had-trouble-but-now-will-approach-you-so-you-can-decide-if-they-are-want-you-want.

 

Not too sext but very decriptive.

 

Again its all about your choice. So why do you care.

 

That's much better.

 

There's a difference between wanting to get to know me and wanting to pick up multiple women. Not sure why they call gaining social skills picking women up. I'm not going anywhere. lol

 

I'm not sure why these guys are in the same group as the ones looking to score every weekend. Just don't associate yourself with that if that's not what you're looking for.

[JadedStar]

You have totally confused me here.

 

I think I need that beer you owe me. *cough cough*

 

My point was you asked "why are we here" to dietrying and myself, as in why are we on this thread.

 

So I was explaining why, and also explaining that we normally agree but on this one topic can't seem to see eye to eye totally but its no biggie everyone has different takes on things. Doesn't mean I am 100% right or you 100% right.

 

Even tho I am really usually 100% right and you should probably just go ahead and buy ME a beer and get it over with. lol

[servedcold]

that men started focusing more on social skills and psychology when dealing with women. I came of age in the 80s, and while my buddies and I were talking about the new Pink Floyd album and playing sports, the women were spending time talking endlessly about relationships, social skills, reading Cosmo and other mags, self help books.

 

Traditionally, women are loaded for bear in social settings because so much of their talk and activities revolved around their relationships. Not a bad thing IMO. Men are catching up. I actually care about my wardrobe these days and use lotion on my face at night (can't believe I just admitted that).

 

A dishonest, manipulative person will accomplish their bad designs regardless of what techniques they learn because they become good at lying and treating people poorly over the years. These types are NOT the type of men attracted to the PUA community generally, THEY DON'T NEED THE HELP.

 

The guys paying for help from these "gurus" are the nice guys who have always gotten the short end of the stick in relationships, if they have even experienced one at all, the guys who have never had a woman in love or lust with them. The natural jerks aren't lining up for this sort of help precisely because they DON'T NEED IT. Their manipulative ways are in place from early on.

 

Now, you can go on PUA forums and see all kinds of disrespectful, manipulative talk. Just remember that the internet is full of 12 year old Beavis and Butthead types, and that posts do not equal reality in such an environment.

 

Interestingly, the big trend in pickup skills is something called "inner game," which revolves around attracting women not by patter or rehearsed routine, but making yourself into a BETTER MAN, the type of real man that most women want. What on earth is wrong with that?

 

Women deserve to be seduced, it makes them happy. They want to feel the power of raw masculine energy in their lives. It is the natural order. Now whether someone uses charisma to deceive is an entirely different question, and separate from the merits of pickup techniques.

[tylercdurden2004]

That's much better.

 

There's a difference between wanting to get to know me and wanting to pick up multiple women. Not sure why they call gaining social skills picking women up. I'm not going anywhere. lol

 

I'm not sure why these guys are in the same group as the ones looking to score every weekend. Just don't associate yourself with that if that's not what you're looking for.

 

 

The thing is you will never know. Unless you have some magical powers how will you know that your future BF hasnt tried to pick up anyone else?

[tylercdurden2004]

My point was you asked "why are we here" to dietrying and myself, as in why are we on this thread.

 

 

 

No I asked why do you care.

 

As in why do you care if a guy uses cheesy lines on you are not. Because dotn you have a choice at the end of the day?

[JadedStar]

No I asked why do you care.

 

As in why do you care if a guy uses cheesy lines on you are not. Because dotn you have a choice at the end of the day?

 

I confused your question.

 

No, I don't care because I am not the kind of person who gets ticked off at stuff like that. I find it flattery either way because I am mature enough to know that yes, i have the choice. You are correct. And I will talk to lots of people, I am not like some women who look at some guys like they have horns growing out of their head simply because he wants to engage in some conversation.

 

Some women think EVERY man who looks her way wants a date and get this pretentious attitude. The type that hides their self esteem issues behind a mask of smug.

[Raiden]

The thing is you will never know. Unless you have some magical powers how will you know that your future BF hasnt tried to pick up anyone else?

 

 

At the risk pf playing the antagonist here

 

That's not the point dietrying is trying to make. No ones arguing that every guy she encounters will be 'holier than thou' in regards to his previous encounters with the fairer sex. It's irrational.

 

What she is trying to say is that she (and other girls like her, I might add) can smell A Player a mile off. A nice guy who is confident with women is a different lingo.

[tylercdurden2004]

I confused your question.

 

No, I don't care because I am not the kind of person who gets ticked off at stuff like that.

 

Thats it right there.

 

Next time read more carefully![-X

[dietrying]

The thing is you will never know. Unless you have some magical powers how will you know that your future BF hasnt tried to pick up anyone else?

 

It can be obvious when you've had experience with them.

 

But I don't know sometimes so I get hurt.

 

I haven't met a guy who "picks up" women who hasn't been hurtful in some way providing that I care enough about what he's been doing.

[tylercdurden2004]

At the risk pf playing the antagonist here

 

That's not the point dietrying is trying to make. No ones arguing that every guy she encounters will be 'holier than thou' in regards to his previous encounters with the fairer sex. It's irrational.

 

What she is trying to say is that she (and other girls like her, I might add) can smell A Player a mile off. A nice guy who is confident with women is a different lingo.

 

So again my question is why does she care, if she can smell them a mile away.

 

Its water off a ducks back then.

[Daddy Bear]

So again my question is why does she care, if she can smell them a mile away.

 

Its water off a ducks back then.

You can't see how it would be annoying for a girl to be approached by four guys in an a hour, all with the same artificial patter, all trying to get into her pants without even knowing who she is?

[Siriana]

I am too lazy to read all 12 pages.

 

But I wonder, whats the big deal about PUA?

 

Why do we need to worry about that?

Aren't we smart enough to recognize when someone is not sincere?

He is not getting tips how to hypnotize me.

Just how to be interesting.

I still can say no to a guy.

He can't be interesting if there's no chemistry.

 

And again if it helped some guys to gain confidence to approach women and that helped them to improve their social skills, why not?

 

You can be a brilliant scientist and use that for doing good, or a brilliant scientist who creates weapon for massive destruction.

It's all about how you use it.

 

I find it little naive to go to that class when you can read a lot of books at home, but I guess doing the first step is the hardest so thats where they help.

[JadedStar]

I don't think it is so much that Carrie cares as it is that she is a young woman out there in the dating field and it is pretty disconcerting to run into a bunch of player's and pick up artists. Sure she can shrug them off, but she is also allowed to be aggravated by the whole scene.

 

Her aggravation won't likely change anything, but its a valid emotion given the issue.

 

Just because it doesn't bother or matter to me doesn't mean that the whole thing isn't bothersome to many.