At what age does being a PUA get creepy?

[Dating Coach]

I pick up women all the time. Not agitated about that in the least. What is it about my posting and having this discussion that would aggitate you so much that you'd have to call me out by name?

 

He probably called you out by name because he picked up an impassioned defensive reaction from you.

[JadedStar]

Carrie

 

I am one of these people that is adamant about backing up what you assert and not saying "its my opinion as a cop out".

 

What is not respectful about it?

 

 

If I go about my day, lets say to the supermarket, to Starbucks, to the mall, to the bar etc

 

At each of these places I meet a girl I find attractive and think "hey I like to get to know her better, I am going to talk to her." And then I do that. Then I decide yes/no I would like to get to know her better by asking for her phone number so I can set up a date with her is that wrong?

 

IMO it is wrong if your mindset is to pad the numbers on your bedpost. If you want to really go out on a date then it is not wrong I would think.

 

So I reach out to yahoo to see what I can find. Interestingly enough the same thought about the term PUA that was in my mind when I saw this was what was being discussed is also what the main definition and feel on the nEt tends to be. The term is associated with the seduction community, a male subculture based on the goal of improved sexual and romantic abilities with women using self-help and an understanding of social psychology

 

For those of you who don't think "pick up artist" sounds negative or sleazy, what would you say to the above defintion? Now that definition is not etched in stone but it IS a very popular definition of it. WOuld you say that is completely legit and not a bit sleazy? If it only were to increase one's dating changes that would be different than increasing one's one night stand capability. The latter, not the former, is associated with the term PUA very widely in the U.S.

 

I think it is and that is why I find it disrespectful if a man were using some pick up artist tactic on me. The entire game is sxual.

[Dating Coach]

It's so gratifying to me that the guys whose thinking I admire most are arguing on the side of treating women as people.

 

You just described everyone in this thread, only you didn't know it.

[tylercdurden2004]

It's not wrong and I'm not really talking about right and wrong.

 

But if I can pick up on that I won't like it and I doubt it would go anywhere.

 

Carrie

 

I have no doubt many women can pick up on a man who just wants to get in there pants.

 

The misconception is that is what all PUA want to do from the get go.

 

Lets be honest a huge part of a happy healthy relationship is sex. Women are sexual men are sexual. Its part of life and why we are here.

 

Having sex on a one night stand. No thats not for everyone. And its not for all PUA.

 

What I find amazing though is that there are people on here who are the first to denounce generalizations yet that is what they are basing their arguments on.

 

For yourself I think you would love for a man to make a move on you, if he truly meant it. Wel the fact is in the first instance of meeting him its all based on your appearance which includes physical traits and body language. Thats the reality. No one is going to love you for your mind without meeting you.

 

So you are relegated to trying to be friends with a guy first in order to date but you can also open your mind and accept that there are men out there who are looking for a great girl and may have to go through a few to find the one they want. Which may be you.

[Dating Coach]

Someone trying to "pick up" is creepy no matter what...age and appearance don't matter. Even if it's not just sex, it's weird for someone to consider them selves skillful when it comes to meeting women. I don't want a guy whose been with a lot of people.

 

But if I were up for that I'd say 20's is an appropriate age for it. But I'm young. Depends what age you're going for.

 

By your description I was "creepy" because I approached my current wife-to-be at a bar because I saw her as an attractive person I wanted to get to know better.

 

Since I know you aren't intending to say such a thing, I am left with the assumption that you don't mean what you said literally "Someone trying to "pick up" is creepy no matter what". Instead I think you were being far more specific in your mind as to what you were responding too, it just didn't come off in your post as intended.

 

That, or you were being literal and you just described me meeting my wife as creepy, as well as anyone who intentionally approaches someone they find attractive. I prefer to assume the former, not the latter as you've seemed intelligent from previous posts.

[Daddy Bear]

You just described everyone in this thread, only you didn't know it.

Don't even try that one on me. I know what respect for women is... and isn't.

[Dating Coach]

By being passive and not being aggressive or 'on the prowl', so to speak.

 

Oh c'mon now. Now you're just being argumentive. This statement is so silly that it doesn't deserve an analysis.

[dietrying]

I'm just not too comfortable feeling as though I'm in a competition of some sort. And I don't like a guy talking to me simply because he wants a girlfriend. I'm not desperate for a boyfriend. I have plenty of time.

 

Guy A: Has a lot of female interests and girls love him.

 

Guy B: Is kind of shy with girls but really clicks with me in particular.

 

I'd pick B always.

[Dating Coach]

As a woman, I don’t find anything wrong with concept of a pick-up artist. So a guy has taken the time to learn how to talk to women, learn how top approach them in settings that can be intimidating (at a crowded club, with a group of their girlfriends, etc). So what??

 

I think I am in love.

 

Finally, a lady who will admit there is nothing wrong with a guy learning good social skills so he can not only portray himself in a positive light, but also not annoy the pants off of every lady he tries to introduce himself too... all the meanwhile having his self esteem destroyed by the brutallity of the rejection he received from attempting to communicate with an attractive female.

 

Props to Jenny. Major props.

 

When I was single and dating, if a guy was a Grade-A cheeseball, I’m not giving him my number, no matter how clever his opening line was. But if I met a cute guy, who approached me confidently and we had a great conversation, and he made me laugh, heck yeah he can have my number, and who cares where he learned these “skills”!

 

Exactly. Because him doing so doesn't mean that he lied, pretended to be someone he is not, is trying to use you, etc. It just means he has strong social skills.

 

Although it also doesn't mean that he DIDN'T lie, pretend, or is not trying to use you.

 

Some people on this thread act like learning these pick up artist skills is like learning hypnotism, and now the creepy, disgusting pua is going to be able to trick all the naïve ladies into having sex with him.

 

Sometimes women are looking for a one night stand or a very casual relationship. And if a woman is looking for a real relationship, why in the world would she sleep with some virtual stranger she just met at a bar? Women aren’t stupid, they know what they want, they aren’t being tricked into hooking up.

 

Sheesh.

 

*CLAPS!*

[JadedStar]

What I find amazing though is that there are people on here who are the first to denounce generalizations yet that is what they are basing their arguments on.

 

Life is full of generalizations, tho, and no argument here nor there will totally get rid of them.

 

The term "pick up artist" has widely in the past and still does conjure up negative connotations.

 

I have found in my life that younger men more frequently subscribe to pick up tactics and try to read up and learn on all kinds of dating gimmicks, whereas men as they mature don't rely on gimmicks they rely on their technique and style that they develop from good old fashioned experience and trial and error. Then you have the older men who even after years on the scene STILL rely on gimmicks and those men I just find sad anyway you look at it.

 

I see pick up artist as gimmicky, whereas I see dating techniques more borne of style and finesse one learns as they gain experience in dating.

 

I am not saying one is right or wrong, but one is definitely preferred by the ladies, and at the end of the day isn't that the end result? Maturity does have its advantages in relationships a lot of the time because mature women can often pick up on the pick up artist more frequently than her younger counterparts. Again, not saying a pick up artist is necessarily in the wrong, but to me the term and the person subscribing to it reeks of some immaturity.

[tylercdurden2004]

Jaded you know I am always game.

 

IMO it is wrong if your mindset is to pad the numbers on your bedpost. If you want to really go out on a date then it is not wrong I would think.

 

Sure if you intention is to further yourself at all costs no matter who you hurt them yes I do not believe that to be good.

 

However if you are doing something such as padding the numbers and you are doing this with people who are into the same, know the score, want nothing more then no its not a problem.

 

What I posted about this yesterday was:

 

Does it work?

 

Does anyone get hurt?

 

That of course depends on the individual using the tool. Like any other tool.

 

The term is associated with the seduction community, a male subculture based on the goal of improved sexual and romantic abilities with women using self-help and an understanding of social psychology

 

If I have this down when I marry my future wife she will be a happy women and thusly me a happy man.

 

But the misconception is that sexual and romatic somehow only apply to One night stands. No wonder so many relationships are in trouble. Somehow you are supposed to stop romancing your wife and being sexual with her, all in the name of respect and decency.

 

For those of you who don't think "pick up artist" sounds negative or sleazy, what would you say to the above defintion? Now that definition is not etched in stone but it IS a very popular definition of it. WOuld you say that is completely legit and not a bit sleazy? If it only were to increase one's dating changes that would be different than increasing one's one night stand capability. The latter, not the former, is associated with the term PUA very widely in the U.S.

 

As above.

 

Anytime a man or woman can improve he sexuality and romance. Hell I support that. I figure there would be alot of less uphappy marriages out there.

I think it is and that is why I find it disrespectful if a man were using some pick up artist tactic on me. The entire game is sxual

 

What like talking to you and joking around. Heck I've done that to you.

 

Time for the gallows?

[tylercdurden2004]

I think I am in love.

 

 

Back up. I saw her first. *waddles in* * scratches crotch* *spits out tobacco*

[JadedStar]

What like talking to you and joking around. Heck I've done that to you.

 

But you are not trying to pick me up!

[dietrying]

By your description I was "creepy" because I approached my current wife-to-be at a bar because I saw her as an attractive person I wanted to get to know better.

 

Since I know you aren't intending to say such a thing, I am left with the assumption that you don't mean what you said literally "Someone trying to "pick up" is creepy no matter what". Instead I think you were being far more specific in your mind as to what you were responding too, it just didn't come off in your post as intended.

 

That, or you were being literal and you just described me meeting my wife as creepy, as well as anyone who intentionally approaches someone they find attractive. I prefer to assume the former, not the latter as you've seemed intelligent from previous posts.

 

Let's not discuss my intelligence or lack thereof. It's really OT.

 

Approaching someone you want to get to know better and having the goal of meeting many women to "pick up" can be two separate things.

 

There's nothing wrong with learning social skills. Just depends what you do with them. Calling yourself a Pick Up Artist.....well I don't know why you'd like to call it that.

 

I'm trying to be less shy, should I make it my goal to seduce as many men as possible and give myself a catchy title? lol

[tylercdurden2004]

I'm just not too comfortable feeling as though I'm in a competition of some sort. And I don't like a guy talking to me simply because he wants a girlfriend. I'm not desperate for a boyfriend. I have plenty of time.

 

Guy A: Has a lot of female interests and girls love him.

 

Guy B: Is kind of shy with girls but really clicks with me in particular.

 

I'd pick B always.

 

So what if the other girls love him.

 

Doesnt it matter that he loves you and you love him.

 

 

But then again Dietrying love is further down the road right?

 

I dont know if its safe to assume PUA continue this way when the find the love they want. Could be wrong though.

[tylercdurden2004]

What like talking to you and joking around. Heck I've done that to you.

 

 

But you are not trying to pick me up!

 

How do you know?

[Dating Coach]

Don't even try that one on me. I know what respect for women is... and isn't.

 

You're vague, yet again. You can't just say something extreme vague and general and think it's a great statement. I mentioned this before. A friend of mine once said, "Hey... it's not about the whole staircase... it's about the next step" when we were talking about life. I wanted to slap him. What he said meant NOTHING to the situation, it was just a broad statement that sounded smart to say.

 

You're being way too vague. What are you SPECIFICALLY talking about? Are you saying that we are not respectful to women? Are you saying that approaching an attractive girl in a social setting and striking up a conversation with them is "disrespectful"? to the female gender? Well a whole lot of women are going to start looking for disrespectful men then... because that attitude is going to put a large burden on their shoulders as all the "respectful guys" are going to make them do the approaching. Sounds kind of selfish to expect women to do that.

 

Or maybe that's not what you are saying at all. Perhaps you can start by being more specific.

[JadedStar]

Just the term pick up artist in itself seems to describe a man whose goal in life is to pick up women and there is no emphasis on quality, or dating longevity, nothing.

 

If I were a woman who believed in one night stands it would be grand, and the women here who don't have a problem with the term may be of that mindset.

 

Men who typically are looking for that one love and not have to keep looking over and over do not typically define themselves as a pick up artist.

[dietrying]

So what if the other girls love him.

 

Doesnt it matter that he loves you and you love him.

 

 

But then again Dietrying love is further down the road right?

 

I dont know if its safe to assume PUA continue this way when the find the love they want. Could be wrong though.

 

Why would he love me if other girls love him?

 

This is where my insecurities start coming out.

[dietrying]

Just the term pick up artist in itself seems to describe a man whose goal in life is to pick up women and there is no emphasis on quality, or dating longevity, nothing.

 

If I were a woman who believed in one night stands it would be grand, and the women here who don't have a problem with the term may be of that mindset.

 

Men who typically are looking for that one love and not have to keep looking over and over do not typically define themselves as a pick up artist.

 

Great post. I don't think I could really date someone who considers himself a PUA.

[JadedStar]

It's all the terms one uses.

 

I prefer to go to a stylist vs a barber. Escorts are usually better paid then hookers. I'D rather be a chef vs a short order cook.

 

ANd i'd rather date a man who "feels" he is a gentleman vs a pick up artist.

 

There are no right or wrongs here becuase we are talking about personal definitions, not black and white ones.

[Daddy Bear]

PUAs don't love, they seduce. If that's the fate a woman thinks she deserves, she may have it... but not from me.

[JadedStar]

How do you know?

 

Just have that hunch.

[Dating Coach]

Let's not discuss my intelligence or lack thereof. It's really OT.

 

Approaching someone you want to get to know better and having the goal of meeting many women to "pick up" can be two separate things.

 

There's nothing wrong with learning social skills. Just depends what you do with them. Calling yourself a Pick Up Artist.....well I don't know why you'd like to call it that.

 

I'm trying to be less shy, should I make it my goal to seduce as many men as possible and give myself a catchy title? lol

 

That's my point. All guys learning PUA aren't soley about notching the bedpost. In fact, I'd say that more PUA students are about relationships as they were formerly clueless individuals whom desperately wanted a girlfriend but had no idea how to attract one. The guys "notcing their bedpost" in my experience have almost exclusively been guys whom have always been able to do this. My brothers friend Rob for one. He coudln't tell you one single thing about PUA, yet all he does is go out, meet girls, and try to get them into bed. My brothers other friend Jon had never kissed a girl until 20 (by this time Rob has had sex with over 40 girls) and Jon studied PUA to meet the right girl.

 

That's all we're trying to say. PUA material doesn't equal out to "bed post notchers". To exclusively define PUA as material for that is unfair.

[Raiden]

PUAs don't love, they seduce.

 

This is what I get out of it also. What happened to good old-fashioned Gentlemanly ways? Not sleazy and cheesy 'techniques' in order rack up a list of successful chat-ups attempts.

 

Sigh.

 

Brings me back to the discussions we've had on here before now about 'Players'...