At what age does being a PUA get creepy?

[tylercdurden2004]

Yes like I said it happens. Just doesnt happen all that often that friends end up marrying each other. But again it depends on what a persons definition of friends is.

 

So how old are you?

[jettison]

Yes like I said it happens. Just doesnt happen all that often that friends end up marrying each other. But again it depends on what a persons definition of friends is.

 

So how old are you?

 

Proper name. Age. Many other specifics.... all things I don't mention on ENA for a reason. This place is like an online journal with spectators, and it's kept separate from "reality" for me. Plus, the last thing I want is for all my friends to have unfettered access to my deepest thoughts and desires because they just happened upon this site.

 

A buddy of mine kept a rather obscure blog once and then detailed his entire personal life on it, including his breakup. The link got passed around like a dubie once he went through a rather ugly breakup. I'll never forget the gossip train that stormed out of the station after that one. I think I'll leave it at "jettison", "from San Francisco", and "in his 30s".

 

However, I've started quite a few relationships via PM on ENA so there's always room for more friends separate from the fray.

[dietrying]

Someone trying to "pick up" is creepy no matter what...age and appearance don't matter. Even if it's not just sex, it's weird for someone to consider them selves skillful when it comes to meeting women. I don't want a guy whose been with a lot of people.

 

But if I were up for that I'd say 20's is an appropriate age for it. But I'm young. Depends what age you're going for.

[tylercdurden2004]

Proper name. Age. Many other specifics.... all things I don't mention on ENA for a reason. This place is like an online journal with spectators, and it's kept separate from "reality" for me. Plus, the last thing I want is for all my friends to have unfettered access to my deepest thoughts and desires because they just happened upon this site.

 

A buddy of mine kept a rather obscure blog once and then detailed his entire personal life on it, including his breakup. The link got passed around like a dubie once he went through a rather ugly breakup. I'll never forget the gossip train that stormed out of the station after that one. I think I'll leave it at "jettison", "from San Francisco", and "in his 30s".

 

However, I've started quite a few relationships via PM on ENA so there's always room for more friends separate from the fray.

 

So at your age what wisdom would you impart on guys who have difficulty meeting and dating women?

[Raiden]

I've always considered the entire so-called "PUA" system cheesy and shallow. Not to mention a bit silly, and Glen Quagmire-esque, frankly. People have tried to persuade me otherwise, though...

 

In the context of this thread, I never thought of a PUA potentially being creepy, however. I now am not so naive, thankfully.

[tylercdurden2004]

Someone trying to "pick up" is creepy no matter what...age and appearance don't matter. Even if it's not just sex, it's weird for someone to consider them selves skillful when it comes to meeting women. I don't want a guy whose been with a lot of people.

 

But if I were up for that I'd say 20's is an appropriate age for it. But I'm young. Depends what age you're going for.

 

So how should a man find a woman he likes?

[Sweet Buttabean Jellayroll]

So how should a man find a woman he likes?

 

c/s

 

thats what im saying

 

how you expect a man too find a woman, he has too go approach her.......

 

unless technology invents a way us men can just howl and woman sense it and run too us

[Raiden]

So how should a man find a woman he likes?

 

By being passive and not being aggressive or 'on the prowl', so to speak.

[Sweet Buttabean Jellayroll]

By being passive and not being aggressive or 'on the prowl', so to speak.

 

by stripping naked in the street and holding his balls in one hand and shouting too the heavens 'SI ESTA MUY BUENO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

c'mon thought you knew that

[dietrying]

So how should a man find a woman he likes?

 

If he can approach me respectfully because he likes me and he's not just out woman hunting that's fine. He can ask me out on a date after we talk for a while or become friends first (best way). "Picking up" is an awful term for it. Sounds as if he'd go for any woman. I need some genuine interest in me not just my gender first.

[Raiden]

by stripping naked in the street and holding his balls in one hand and shouting too the heavens 'SI ESTA MUY BUENO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

c'mon thought you knew that

 

Actually, I didn't have a clue. Nope... completely naive....

 

Come on, anyway. You're contradicting yourself, for starters.

[tylercdurden2004]

By being passive and not being aggressive or 'on the prowl', so to speak.

 

Jeez Ken

 

Thats exaclty how I got the jobs I have enjoyed working, the women I have enjoyed dating, going to college, travelling.

 

Yup all by being passive and sitting back.

[tylercdurden2004]

If he can approach me respectfully because he likes me and he's not just out woman hunting that's fine. He can ask me out on a date after we talk for a while or become friends first (best way). "Picking up" is an awful term for it. Sounds as if he'd go for any woman. I need some genuine interest in me not just my gender first.

 

 

Carrie

 

If you dont mind can you elaborate on what you mean. What is approaching you respectfully?

 

I mean I watched a few of the clips of Mystery and it seems to me that he talks to a girl for a while before askign for her number to set up a date. I am a bit confused.

[Raiden]

Jeez Ken

 

Thats exaclty how I got the jobs I have enjoyed working, the women I have enjoyed dating, going to college, travelling.

 

Yup all by being passive and sitting back.

 

That's an over-simplification. I never said that you should sit on your ass and do nothing.

 

No. The point here is that being a PUA, by implication(s), is treating finding a date/partner as a sport. It's being argued out in the other PUA thread, anyway... thus, any further discussion on this belongs in there, really.

[jenny_mcs]

As a woman, I don’t find anything wrong with concept of a pick-up artist. So a guy has taken the time to learn how to talk to women, learn how top approach them in settings that can be intimidating (at a crowded club, with a group of their girlfriends, etc). So what??

 

When I was single and dating, if a guy was a Grade-A cheeseball, I’m not giving him my number, no matter how clever his opening line was. But if I met a cute guy, who approached me confidently and we had a great conversation, and he made me laugh, heck yeah he can have my number, and who cares where he learned these “skills”!

 

Some people on this thread act like learning these pick up artist skills is like learning hypnotism, and now the creepy, disgusting pua is going to be able to trick all the naïve ladies into having sex with him.

 

Sometimes women are looking for a one night stand or a very casual relationship. And if a woman is looking for a real relationship, why in the world would she sleep with some virtual stranger she just met at a bar? Women aren’t stupid, they know what they want, they aren’t being tricked into hooking up.

 

Sheesh.

[tylercdurden2004]

That's an over-simplification. I never said that you should sit on your ass and do nothing.

 

No. The point here is that being a PUA, by implication(s), is treating finding a date/partner as a sport. It's being argued out in the other PUA thread, anyway... thus, any further discussion on this belongs in there, really.

 

Ken

 

Some men such as some of the PUA see dating and meeting women as fun.

 

I am far from a PUA myself but what I do know is its no different that getting anything else in your life such as the career you want its all about how you present yourself and how willing you are to learn and work for it.

 

 

To me that is admirable. I understand there a people on here who have issues etc and cant see that. Its difficult for them. But at the end of the day I do not see any problem with picking up chicks as long as in the process no one gets hurt.

 

The most important thing is to enjoy what ever it is that you do and to do it well. Having fun. From what I see of Mr Mysterious, he seems to have a lot of fun and so do the girls. Maybe that is wrong. Maybe I am off my nutter.

[tylercdurden2004]

Exactly. And many people some how view these women as victims. Which really is unfair to the woman. Think they can think for themselves. Or so the feminists told me.

[Dating Coach]

You're right though, it is ad hominem. And sometimes, ad hominem is appropriate. For example, if a 6 year old was giving me financial advice then i'd be pretty comfortable employing ad hominem.

 

Hahahaha! Show me a 6 year old that would actually be offering financial advice! LOL! And even still I bet you still wouldn't have to use Ad Hominem, just break apart their argument.

 

 

[dietrying]

Carrie

 

If you dont mind can you elaborate on what you mean. What is approaching you respectfully?

 

I mean I watched a few of the clips of Mystery and it seems to me that he talks to a girl for a while before askign for her number to set up a date. I am a bit confused.

 

All I can really say is that being a PUA isn't really respectful in my opinion. Some guys are obviously looking to score....and if it's not just about sex and they're trying to get the interest of as many women as possible to get their egos stroked and have a large group of choices...well, I don't really have time for that. Show more genuine interest in me specifically. If they don't I'll weed them out.

[tylercdurden2004]

All I can really say is that being a PUA isn't really respectful in my opinion.

 

Carrie

 

I am one of these people that is adamant about backing up what you assert and not saying "its my opinion as a cop out".

 

What is not respectful about it?

 

 

If I go about my day, lets say to the supermarket, to Starbucks, to the mall, to the bar etc

 

At each of these places I meet a girl I find attractive and think "hey I like to get to know her better, I am going to talk to her." And then I do that. Then I decide yes/no I would like to get to know her better by asking for her phone number so I can set up a date with her is that wrong?

[Daddy Bear]

The answer to the OP's titular question is 17. Anyone older than that should know better.

[dietrying]

Carrie

 

I am one of these people that is adamant about backing up what you assert and not saying "its my opinion as a cop out".

 

What is not respectful about it?

 

 

If I go about my day, lets say to the supermarket, to Starbucks, to the mall, to the bar etc

 

At each of these places I meet a girl I find attractive and think "hey I like to get to know her better, I am going to talk to her." And then I do that. Then I decide yes/no I would like to get to know her better by asking for her phone number so I can set up a date with her is that wrong?

 

No. Unless you do this every time you go out and consider yourself an expert at it.

[tylercdurden2004]

No. Unless you do this every time you go out and consider yourself an expert at it.

 

So if every weekend I go do the same routine. Maybe different bars, grocery stores etc and I happen upon a girl I find attractive and I decide to approach her and talk to her. After talking to her I think "hey she seems cool, I'll ask her for her number and see if I can set up a date with her." And each place I happen to see a girl I like.

 

Is that wrong?

[dietrying]

So if every weekend I go do the same routine. Maybe different bars, grocery stores etc and I happen upon a girl I find attractive and I decide to approach her and talk to her. After talking to her I think "hey she seems cool, I'll ask her for her number and see if I can set up a date with her." And each place I happen to see a girl I like.

 

Is that wrong?

 

It's not wrong and I'm not really talking about right and wrong.

 

But if I can pick up on that I won't like it and I doubt it would go anywhere.

[Dating Coach]

There is nothing dishonst about dating a friend. Maybe you were in a relationship before. Maybe she was. Maybe you were co-workers. Maybe the timing was wrong. It's not dishonest. Love grows out of friendship all the time. Just because it's not true in your world, it doesn't make it false for everyone else. "one out of 100 times". Care to send me a link to some real statistics on that one?

 

About dating a friend? No, nothing wrong with that. I'm talking about moving in as friends because you secretly have a crush on her. That's dishonest, it's weak, shows low self confidence, it narrows down your options to one person when there are hundreds... thousands of potential partners, etc

 

As far as statistics. Go read the forums. There are an extremely high number of guys whom are hurting desperately because they secretly are crushing on their friend. Look at how many of them confessed eventually only to be rebuffed. Now compare that to the number of guys on these forums whom secretely crushed on their "friend" and confessed their feelings and ended up in a happy relationship. Any experience on these forums will show you that it's not even a comparison.

I too did that same mistake in my life many times. I had to overcome my ego to see that I was committing way too many mistakes that were easily avoidable, and that is why I consistantly failed to be attractive.

I can sit here all day and point out the many flaws in this approach which makes it one of the most common and least effective approaches there are.

 

However, two friends with mutual and open attraction? Sure, if you find yourself in this position, by all means.

 

Again, read above. There's no dishonesty involved. If I find someone attractive, I am under no obligation to take an add out about it in the Sunday Times. You're adding variables that weren't mentioned.

 

No, I am talking about the far and away most common mistake of shy/nice guys in trying to attract women. As far as two people whom are pals that have a mutual attraction simultaneous developing, that is a uncommon occurrence. Your example isn't a very effective way to go about things. How often do two friends, a guy and a girl, go about their daily routine of hanging out with their group, and then both realize simultaneously that they like each other? Not common.

So what is "friends first" but an attempt to tell someone to "not date" but to instead become "friends" and get to know each other first? Perhaps you aren't doing a thorough job of explaining what you are talking about. Even in a "friends liking friends" scenario, what then? Who decides they like someone first? Who breaks the news? They don't fall into a date together accidentally. Obviously someone makes a move. When does this happen? How do you know that the other person is interested back? Do you wait to find out or do you just go ask the person out the moment you decide you like them?

 

Your example is very abstract, please narrow it down for me. I went ahead and narrowed it down by talking about guys whom move in close to a girl they are attracted to and fill the role as a friend even though they secretly crave more because that is one of the most common situations that we see on these forums.

 

Then why call it a "pick up artist"? Why not just say "a guy who has overcome his ineptitude and can talk to women without stuttering and spilling his cocktail in the process." Why skirt it?

 

For one, I don't knwo who chose the label. For two, who cares what the label is? It's the content that matters and it's silly to dwell on a label. For three, I think it goes without saying that calling it: "a guy who has overcome his ineptitude and can talk to women without stuttering and spilling his cocktail in the process" wouldn't work. What a mouthful. That's not going to go over well in sales pitches.

 

We all know what "pick up" means, and certainly what it implies. You're looking to talk to women with the purpose of impressing them enough so they'd want to date you. There is NOTHING wrong with that. But just call it what it is. The "PUA" terminology is what wreaks of general douchebagedness. You don't have to like it, but it just does.

 

You're stuck on the label again. Who cares about something so trivial? Not only that, but you're prejudging.

 

Why does it need to stop? For the good of the planet? People make "fast judgments" all the time. You do it too. You're judging the people judging the term PUA on this thread for example without knowing almost anything about them or where they might be coming from.

 

Actually I am at least competently familiar with it. And yes, making FALSE fast assumptions does need to stop. It's making a false assumption about something that has the potential to do a lot of good.

 

No, that's terrific. Zero wrong with that at all. I'd say that means you likely have a great personality, you're engaging, and you put women at ease so they like you. Cool enough. I wouldn't refer to you as an "artist" though.

 

I'm no master, but I intentionally sent out certain signals about myself so that I would be pictured in a way I wanted to be pictured and that's what PUA is about.

I smiled at her wanting to appear friendly (which I am). I was cracking jokes because I wanted to be seen as funny and outgoing (which I am). I was flirty because I wanted her to see that I enjoyed her company (which I did). These are all part of social skills. I picked her up that night (forget the term "pick up") because I correctly portrayed who I was to her.

 

The thing about shy and clueless guys are that they find portraying themselves correctly to a beautiful woman a very difficult thing to do. They may struggle to put together an interesting sentence or statement, they may come accross as "trying too hard" for their nervousness, or any number of other things. These guys do this because they don't have the control or the knowledge or the experience of how best to present themselves. Things like The Mystery Method try to teach these guys how to do this.