smittenkitten

I know, I'm being a total whiner. I wish it was as easy as just not giving it any more thought, but I can't do that right now. I feel kind of selfish to keep posting about it, but I'm trying to help other people on here with their problems, too... I don't want to be an emotional black hole sucking the life force out of everyone around me! So, agh, I'm trying to balance what I'm taking with what I'm giving. Anyway. I can't just "snap out of it". (Unfortunately!) My brain has to analyze every little detail and nuance of a situation before I'm able to come to terms with it. Yup, just gotta make sure there are NO loopholes anywhere that I can use to squirm out of this.

AHA!!! This, here, is my sticking point. I am having SUCH a hard time believing that he just doesn't care about me. I KNOW he does. This is what is so baffling. I know, everyone is saying if I haven't heard from him for this long, it means I don't matter to him. Part of me agrees. The other part of me is going, "Nooooooo, that's just not possible!!!!" I mean, yeah. Suppose that's true. Wouldn't it be really, really hard to say no to something that you want but know you can't have? Like, if that's the case, if he calls me & tells me it's not gonna happen, well then the possibility of eventually ever having a relationship is now destroyed. Geez. That probably made NO sense! I just talked to a friend who is convinced that he's going to come around, and that he's just trying to figure out how he feels. She said I should take down my online profile, because if he sees it he's going to just give up 'cuz he'll think I've moved on, and it will set the whole process back much further. I guess the theory is that he's like a turtle hiding in it's shell, and any sudden movement on my part might frighten him back into it. Hmmph. What a mind-(rhymes with "duck")!!!

](*,)

Sorry, just cycling... it seems that I've been hitting denial, sadness, & anger, around and around, all in the last few minutes- woo-hoo, fun! I was all sad when I got home tonight, listening to my sad songs on the way home in my car. So sad. Then I went online & looked at his profile again... he is SUCH a (insert bad word here)!!! Mad. Sad. Mad. Sad. Confused. Bewildered. Sad. Mad. This SUCKS!!! (insert bad word here) Sorry to keep whining about this...

Hey there! I just sent you a looooong email!!!

She's the one who's missing out! I have NO clue what she's doing. I can't imagine just ignoring a guy's email to me, unless he'd done something that really ticked me off. Even then I'd give him at least a chance or two. Even if she doesn't want to go out with you, she should at least have the integrity to respond with a "no thanks". You've done everything right. I'd just cut my losses & delete her from my IM list if I were you. If she tries to contact you asking why, you could either ignore her (ha ha!) or just say, "Sorry, but I'm accustomed to interacting with people who are a little more responsive. Have a nice life!" You'll meet someone who a) is interested in you, and b) helps you get over your fear of being in a relationship because she won't be playing games!!!

I'm still confused. This is day 11 of my not hearing from him. I know that the traditional wisdom is that he's just not into me- the thing is, I know he really liked me. He told me he liked me, he told me he loves spending time with me, he told me he could easily fall for me, but that right now isn't a good time. He said he wanted my friendship no matter what. I just can't believe I haven't heard from him. Even if he decided we should just be friends, wouldn't he have called me by now to let me know? He said he didn't want to lose me. Isn't (almost) 2 weeks of no contact kind of a guaranteed way to lose someone? Maybe he's just taking the easy way out so he doesn't have to decide anything. Maybe he's hoping I'll just disappear, thinking that if he doesn't see me anymore he won't have to deal with his conflicted feelings. Maybe he got hit by a bus and got amnesia & he's wandering around in South Florida right now thinking he's Jimmy Buffet. I just really didn't think I'd lose his friendship! Apparently it didn't matter to him as much as it did to me. He's proving that he can live without me. Even his last email to me, he told me not to worry, and that I'm really important to him. Yukko. I didn't expect this!

That's an interesting perspective on Ocrob's situation Mjane. You might be right. We were all trying to figure out why she's sending mixed messages, but I hadn't thought of that.

Eeeesh!!! Yikes! Sorry to say this, but this guy doesn't sound like he's a very good prospect, not at all! He's ambivalent at best, he's an alcoholic at worst! Have you heard from him yet? The fact that he told your friend, not you, is not a good sign. I see that you're 26... I'm assuming he's in the same age range. Using your friend to pass on the message is... well... so HIGH SCHOOL!!! (My apologies to you younger members who have more integrity than this!) Wowser. Nope, I don't like it. He's been dating a girl on and off for a year but he kinda sorta forgot to mention that fact to you? And he pursued you on New Year's Eve (kind of), then less than 2 weeks later decides he wants to try to make things work with this other girl? It's not like he just met her... I think a year of dating her would be enough time for him to sort out his feelings for her! Sounds like he's a classic commitment-phobe (I know, some of you don't believe those exist)... he's always going to be thinking the grass is greener elsewhere. Put it this way. Say you don't give up. Say he "decides" he'd like to date you. How would you feel if he strung you along for a year, never really committing to you, keeping an eye out for other women he might prefer over you? That's what he's doing to her. Chances are, that's what he'll do to you! Oh my gosh. Please try to stop analyzing why he's doing what he's doing. (I know, easy for me to say!) Just take a good hard look at his behavior, then lace up your tennis shoes and RUN baby, RUN!!! You deserve much better!!!

Sure, why not? As long as it's not an engagement ring!

Yeah, I've got to remember that, too!

I'm glad he got back to you. At least you've got some closure now- he was honest enough to tell you how he's feeling. Of course it's not fun to hear that you're on the bottom of his priority list, but at least you're not in limbo anymore. It sounds like it really wasn't you at all, so take comfort in knowing that! I hope you're feeling better!

One other thing about NC- it might make her panic & she might try to prematurely "decide" to be with you. Don't let her do this. Hopefully she'll just say yes, she needs some time. If she responds to your message or tries to get back with you too soon, keep the brakes on. You'll need to be really strong. Tell her she's not going to lose you, there's no rush, and you're not going to get involved with her until she's ready. You want her to choose you because she's ready, not because she's panicking. Of course there's always the possibility that she ultimately won't choose to be with you. That's tough, but only time will tell.

No, I don't think she was rejecting you when she said "You deserve better than me". I think her self-esteem is in the toilet. I think she might have said that hoping you'd come back with, "No, you're wonderful, you're worth it, I don't want to be with anyone else and I'll wait as long as you need." I think you're doing the right thing. How long ago did you start NC? When did she send that message? I think it would be OK for you to send her a card, saying "I just want you to know that I really care about you and I'd like to try this again when you're ready. At the very least, I'd like to continue being friends with you at some point down the road. Take all the time you need, but don't ever think it's too late to contact me when you're ready. We have too much history together to just say good-bye forever. I'll always be here for you, even if we're not 'meant to be' romantically." Something like that. You can probably put your feelings into words better than I can! I wish Mike had walked away from me early on, when he realized how confused I was. I wish he would have said something like that to me, so I'd know the door wasn't shut, that he wasn't rejecting me but just giving me time to heal from my last relationship. Unfortunately, we didn't do the smart thing. I did love him, and I couldn't let him go. Sadly, I couldn't let the jerk go, either. When Mike finally walked away from me, it was too late. I was devastated because I knew I'd lost the best man I'd ever met. I chased him and chased him, called him, showed up at his house crying, begged & pleaded with him to give me another chance. He wouldn't even look at me. It was awful. The worst part was knowing that I'd destroyed it, and knowing that we could have had something really good together if we'd waited. (By the way, it wasn't him walking away that "pushed" me into feeling that way; it was the unfortunate coincidence that I realized I was over the jerk and ready for a real relationship with Mike EXACTLY when Mike decided he was 'done' with me!) Years later, I still look back & wonder what might have been. I heard he'd gotten married a couple years ago & it made me sad, thinking "That could have been me". Fortunately, I have enough faith that I've gotten over it, and I've been able to get some peace by telling myself that it just wasn't meant to be, maybe it wouldn't have worked even if we'd waited. But the point is, it didn't even have a CHANCE to work, the way we went about it. If you want to give your relationship with this girl the best possible chance it has, NC is the only option you have right now. Trying to have a friendship while you both still have feelings for each other sounds good in theory (I mean, you care about her, and something is better than nothing, right? WRONG!), but it won't work. Once she's processed her stuff with this guy & she's clear about her feelings, you can get back together, either as friends or lovers. But do send her a note. ONE note, short & sweet, letting her know that you haven't closed the door on her forever. If she's in even half the pain and confusion I was in with my situation, she will be so glad to know that she hasn't lost you for good & that there's still a chance. (Just don't promise her your undying love, because who knows how long this will take... you might fall in love with someone else along the way!) To bring this whole post down to it's essense: NC now= a chance for something in the future; Trying to have any type of relationship with her now= no chance!!! I hope this helps. Feel free to email me again if you want, or we can keep talking here.

I could be wrong, but she might be one of those women who is using The Rules to screw up her love life. I've pulled some good things out of them (namely, learning not to chase a guy, and learning how to pace myself in a relationship), but I've seen a lot of women do a LOT of stupid things in the name of TR. I used to be active on an online TR group (this group is WAY better though!), and some of the stuff I'd hear would make me cringe. And some of it sounds JUST LIKE THIS!!! "Oh, he keeps telling me he misses me, but I just keep being elusive and all I say is 'mmm-hmmm'." "He keeps saying he wants to see me, but he's not asking me out for a specific time and day, so I keep pretending not to hear him." "I don't know what this guy is doing, he keeps IMing me & saying he likes me, but he's just not stepping up to the plate by asking me out for a proper date! I think I'll be mysterious and take a trip to Vegas & make him wonder what I'm up to. That will make him come running!" I could be wrong about this. Some of the stuff she's doing isn't TR (dates are "supposed" to only last 2 hours, women should never go to a guy's house, don't get into IMing). Maybe she's trying to do TR but doing it imperfectly. Maybe she's not doing it at all. But the part about her IGNORING things you say... even when she ASKED you to give an example... man, I can picture her IMing with you, thumbing through the book, going "Oh crap, what do I do now? I guess I'll just pretend I didn't hear that!!!" One of the pieces of TR advice is to NEVER 'lead' a guy. So if he says, "Hey, you want to do something/get together?", she's just supposed to say "OK" (pause) The man-puppet then is supposed to say, "How about Friday night?" She then responds (regardless if it's true), "Oh, so sorry, Friday night I already have plans!" (pause) Man-puppet then gets really excited & suggests another night (hopefully Saturday!), at which point she can say "Yes". She is not under any circumstances supposed to say, "Well, Friday night is out, how about we meet X night instead." Because if she does this, well, then, she's making your job too EASY and you'll lose interest. You're supposed to do all the work! Unfortunately all this pausing and hemming and hawing and refusal to show any excitement (in the interest of being elusive & 'light'!) is, to me, the dating equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot. Yep. That's the point of TR. Be so mysterious & elusive & unlike any other woman a man's ever known, so he can't get you out of his head, and he'll pursue you like mad & fall in love with you. Anyway, whether or not she's intentionally playing games, this doesn't sound like it's worth it. What a pain in the butt!!! It's too bad, because there are a lot of really nice women I've met in that group, but a lot of them do the most incredibly stupid things. One woman drove her fiancee of 2 years away because she was too afraid to ever call him or get into a serious discussion with him! I remember her posting about him going through some problems with his job, and how he was depressed & wanted her support, and she was like, "Gee, I don't know guys, do you think I should help him? No, I better keep being light & breezy. I don't want him to think of me like his mother!" Stupid! BTW Ocrob, thanks for replying to my post! I appreciate having a man's input!

LOL! Glad I'm not the only one. I mean, I'm not glad that you're going through it... just that I'm not alone!

It sounds like it's still too soon for you to make that overture. I just read your initial post about the situation. You're risking a world of hurt by contacting her now. I know I once met a guy right after a boyfriend broke up with me. I dated him even though I knew it was too soon, but even though I knew the ex-boyfriend was no good for me, I was still in love with him. However, I also had feelings for the new guy. I wound up getting into a relationship with the new guy, and then I started sleeping with the old boyfriend when he came sniffing around. It was absolutely horrible. I broke the new guy's heart, and by the time I was "ready" for him (absolutely, 100% over the bad boyfriend), he'd had enough and walked away from me. I never heard from him again. She very likely does have feelings for you, but you're going to have to be patient. VERY patient. It took me 6 months to get over the bad boyfriend. And I admit, I did use the new one as an emotional band-aid, but I also cared about him. And yes, I was very confused. I hated what I was doing but I felt powerless to stop it. Girls do get confused, too, ya know! You really don't need that. You deserve someone who is very clear about wanting to be with you. I'm not saying your situation is exactly the same as mine was, but it sounds similar. You'll know when & if it's time to contact her. You'll feel strong, and you'll know that you'll be OK whether she comes back into your life or not. I agree that she's not going to contact you, since you're the one who broke it off, and someday (not now!) it would be good for you to call her and say, "Hey, I miss you, I'd like to see you". Then take it slowly and see how it goes. Keep your eyes open for any signs that she's not over the guy yet. Of course by that time, you might have moved on & be over her. Hang in there!

LOL! That's awesome! Dako, you really don't want a woman who's so shallow she'll reject you based on your material possessions! If you need a new car, by all means get one, but don't do it to get dates! I'll tell ya, the last thing I'm looking for is a guy with money. If he's got a job & a decent work ethic, that's good enough for me. Much more important are things like conversation, emotional connection, and the like. If you show up looking good & you treat her well, that should be enough. If you're meeting women online, you should always meet in a public place for the first couple dates anyway. (Just make sure you arrange to meet her inside the establishment so she doesn't see your car right off!) Establish a connection with a woman first; if the conversation is good and the spark is there, and you want to continue dating her, chances are she'll feel the same way. So by the time you reach the stage where you're picking her up, she won't care about your car. You can always laugh lightly and pat the dashboard, saying "Yep, this baby and I have been through a lot together!" or "She's not much to look at but she runs like a dream!" If you act apologetic and expect her to look down on you because of what you drive, she just might think, "Gee, he's right, he's right, this really is a POS car!" You might even steal DN's line & say "Yeah, my car's really a (whatever); I just disguise it to avoid damage by jealous fellow suburbanites!" Make her laugh with you, not at you. If you're accepting and matter-of-fact about it, she will be, too. Anyway, I doubt it's as bad as you think it is. Is it held together with duct tape? Does it have more rust than metal? Are there holes in the floorboards? Does the heater work? The guy I was dating had a POS car. The door handle on my side had a set of pliers attached instead of a window handle. I laughed and told him I liked how he'd customized his car! As long as it's clean & you look good, she won't think you're a loser. I think it's cute when it's obvious that my date took the effort to vaccuum his car & spiff it up for me, even if it is a POS!

Awww, sweetie! I'm glad I helped. I know it's so hard to go through this. Just keep hanging in there. Love yourself & be gentle with yourself, and realize that you're worthy of a love that enhances your life, that makes you feel bigger & better & stronger about yourself. You want someone who makes you feel like skipping down the hall and singing at the top of your lungs... not someone who makes you play sad songs over and over and cry your heart out.

Women generally don't do this if they're not interested. We usually try to avoid giving a man any idea that we'd like to go out... often pulling the "I'm sorry but I have a boyfriend" line (whether or not it's true!) The fact that she brought it up is a definite sign of interest. I don't know why she said she'd call & didn't. I know that I hate calling men, and sometimes I'll say OK when a guy says "Call me", and I usually don't, because I figure if he's interested enough he'll assume I was just busy & he'll call again. (I'm trying to break that habit, and now I say something like "Oh it's fine, you can call me whenever you'd like.") I don't want to be the pursuer in a relationship. She might be thinking, "Well, I asked him out, so he knows I like him and if he's really interested he'll call me." Or she might have forgotten that she said she'd call you & she's wondering why she hasn't heard from you. (I did that once in college, when a guy I was into passed me in the hall in a big crowd of people & put his hand up to his ear like a phone & mouthed "Call me"... but I thought he was signaling that he'd call me, and I didn't, and he didn't, and a couple weeks later we ran into each other and he asked why I hadn't called him! I know, that's not exactly your situation, is it? Oh well...) The point is, you just don't know what's going on in her head right now! Why assume the worst? Assume she has good intentions until she proves otherwise! I'd give it one more chance. Don't let her "bookmark" you (leaving it open-ended) though. If the night you suggest doesn't work for her, ask her what night would be good. When she tells you, say, "OK then, Saturday (or Friday, or Thursday) at 7pm, we can go out for dinner, would you like me to pick you up?" If she's truly interested she'll say yes. And if you have the date and time nailed down, you don't need to hang around waiting for her to call you. You have nothing to lose in this. Good luck!

Oooh, think about this! What if she doesn't like being outdoors in the cold? I know I hate it! It's an effort for me to leave my house, period, in the wintertime, especially when it's cold and dark! I have to force myself to go out on dates at all this time of year! Even walking from my house to my car is horrible! Now, if she's a buff, outdoorsy, winter-camping-ice-climbing-pee-in-the-snow kinda girl, this might be her thing. But most women expect to be taken out to dinner and a movie on a first (or second, or third) date. We like fixing our hair, getting pretty, the anticipation of where you'll take us to dinner, finding out what kind of movies you like, talking and getting to know you, etc. Plus, I think she'll be far more receptive to snuggling and kissing you if she's not worried about hat-head & if her nose isn't dripping snot like a faucet! I think your idea is sweet, but it's a definite no-go. Oh, oops, you're in middle school. So I don't know if the dinner-and-movie thing is gonna work. But you can think of something, indoors, that will be much more fun. Scope her out a bit, figure out what kind of girl she is, find out what she likes to do. Maybe take her to a school basketball game and go for some hot chocolate or coffee after; maybe take her roller-skating or bowling (unless she has long fingernails! Owie, it HURTS to bowl with long fingernails!) You definitely want to do something where she has easy access to a bathroom so she can touch up her makeup & check herself out. (I know when I was that age I was paranoid about boogers & spinach in my teeth!) Good luck!

Noooo!!! Try not to think like this! I think your email was just fine! Perfect, actually! You weren't needy or clingy, it was very natural & actually very light. There's nothing wrong with expressing your concern- if you'd emailed him and said, "I want you so much, I need you and I love you, I want to marry you and have 20 children, please please rescue me from the gaping emotional black hole that is my life because you are my universe and I can't live without you!!!"... then yes, you could take credit for scaring him away! When people break up, it's for a reason, and whatever that reason is, it doesn't usually change enough for the relationship to work the second time. That's a massive generalization of course; I know that sometimes people come back together after a long time apart, realize that they're soul mates, get married & live happily ever after- I just think that's the exception, not the rule. You're doing OK. Better you should find this out now than after you're married with 20 children! I have a theory that if someone is right for you, if the relationship is "meant to be", that you can't do anything wrong to screw it up. And if it's not meant to be, you can't do anything right to make it work. Which means (if I take my own theory seriously!) that I, personally, would be much better off spending my time getting manicures & going dancing than putting all my energy into myriad relationship "How-To" books! Especially since so many of them give contradictory advice- I've read The Rules (I and II), The REAL Rules, Men are From Mars, Women are From Venus, Mars and Venus on a Date, Why Men Won't Commit, How to Make Anyone Fall in Love, Getting To 'I Do', etc. (Not to mention all the times I've spent money on psychics who tell me "Oh yes honey, he's the one, hang in there, he's your soulmate..." regardless of which guy I'm calling about! Damn, I have a LOT of "soulmates" out there! Funny I'm still single! Hmmm... think they're trying to build a repeat clientelle by telling people what they want to hear? GASP! Surely not!) I could practically take a luxury vacation with all the money I've spent on analyzing relationships! (And possibly meet the man of my dreams while basking in the sun on the deck of a ship, being waited on hand and foot by scantily clad sun-bronzed men... Mmmmmm...) Sorry, I digressed a bit there! Ooof. Nothing is as crazy-making as the guy who disappears! Especially since it's virtually impossible for a man to reach a certain age and NOT realize that if he doesn't call us (even to say "Thanks but no thanks!") it drives us INSANE!!! I don't get it. Anyway, hang in there sweetie! Don't stress about that email. Take pride in the fact that you didn't humiliate yourself. You went to him as an equal, with dignity, respect, and an assumption that he could meet you in grown-up land & talk about it, with honesty and openness. If I were you, I'd go ahead and make those plans to move accross the country. If he comes to his senses & realizes that he can't live without you, he'll jump through hoops to keep you. He can be the one who follows you, or puts the effort into a long-distance relationship. The worst thing you can do is put your life on hold and allow yourself to miss opportunities because you're holding out for a man who may not even be right for you! You don't want to look back in 5 years & be kicking yourself in the butt, going "GEEZ!!! What was I thinking! I wish I'd taken that opportunity instead of wasting these past 5 years with this guy!" 'Cuz it's possible that he'll decide to date you, even get hot & heavy again, but he may never get truly serious with you. You could spend years trying to make this relationship work. However, if you move, and he makes the (huge) effort to come after you, chances are good that he's serious. And if you're special enough to him, time and distance will be less important to him than keeping you in his life. There's only ONE you. If you're it for him, no one else will do. He'll want your magic in his life. Plus, who knows, maybe your soulmate is waiting for you over on the other side of the country, looking at his watch and tapping his foot, going "Gosh darn it, I sure hope she'll hurry it up and get her butt out here... Geez, I really hope she doesn't settle for that other guy! She doesn't know what she's missing!" Good luck hon!

Absolutely, dahlin'... I'll even send y'all some autographed copies! LOL! ...YUP! Kind of like the man who says, "TRUST ME!" Those are invariably the proverbial wolves in sheep's clothing. Honest, trustworthy guys take those traits in themselves for granted, and prove themselves through actions, not words! Anyway, if he comes back, I'm setting some major boundaries. No more 9 hour dates. No more "hang out at my house & cuddle" dates. I'm thinking along the lines of meeting for coffee for an hour at Borders & then, "Oh gosh, look at the time! Sorry, I gotta run!" (I know, I'm prematurely strategizing! I just don't want to be caught off guard if he calls & fall back into "Sure, come right over, I'm your puppy dog & I've been waiting and waiting for you to call, YIPPEEE!" mode!!!)

Anyway, I have a feeling that this isn't over. Now that I'm feeling clear and relatively strong (right this second anyway!), I don't think he's going to be able to stay away from me. I don't think I'm being arrogant or indulging in denial, it's just a feeling I have. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. Who knows. If that happens though, things will be much different. If he wants me, he can be the one who's trying to talk me into it. I've posted 2 really good profiles online (if I was a guy, I'd date me!)... I will be dating other men... and I will be having fun, with or without him. It's kind of cool. I've had so much downtime lately that I've gotten to do a lot of things I normally wouldn't. I crashed my regular computer this past week & had to give it to my ex-husband to fix, so I've been making do on an ancient Mac that I used years ago. So I was going through all my old files tonight & I found a book that I started writing a few years ago! I just re-read it, and it's GOOD. (I think!) I only have the introduction and the first 3 chapters written, but I think I might get going on it again. Who knows, maybe his disappearing act will be the catalyst to my becoming a famous author!