smittenkitten

Thanks Nikki! I'm sorry you're going through this, too. It's pretty inexplicable to me that a guy would want to turn his back on such a seemingly intense connection. It could mean that it was never there (although I know that's not the case here!), or else... geez... I don't know!!! I just found an old document a friend sent me ages ago about breaking up with class. My favorite suggestion is to "Move on so fast it'll make his head spin!" Feet, don't fail me now!

Eeesh... I just lost the post I was writing! Yes, I've had those issues in the past, and there are still shadows of them in my life today, but I've worked on them a LOT. I went through a suicidal depression a couple of years ago. I really struggled with it, and if it hadn't been for my kids I would have just given up. But I realized I only had 2 choices- give up or get better- and the first choice wasn't an option, so I got better. It wasn't easy though, and it took my being open to ALL the resources available to me... therapy, medication, prayer, meditation, journaling, relying on friends & family, taking walks... I did everything I could to make friends with myself. I can honestly say that I like myself a whole lot today. Instead of the old negative tapes, I speak gently to myself. It's made a huge difference. Sometimes the old "I'm such an idiot, I'm such a jerk, I'm so stupid" thoughts come up, but I'm always able to catch them & reverse them. I've been really lucky. Anyway, I haven't been in a serious relationship for over 4 years. I've gotten much more peaceful with myself over these years- I don't feel like I'm empty or like there's a huge hole in my chest (like I used to). I'm sad about this, but yes, I'm walking away, with a fair amount of dignity. I haven't gone crying to him or begged him to be with me, I haven't driven past his house, and I haven't called him. I think I'm just in the process of accepting the situation- going through the stages of grief (denial, bargaining, anger, sadness, acceptance). And just allowing myself to feel what I'm feeling each moment. I know I deserve better, and that's why I'm able to be in this process of letting go. It's funny though, because I wasn't even looking for something serious when I met him. Guess that's good, 'cuz that's not what I got! I'm pretty content with my kids & my chickens & my dogs & cats. I'll probably grow old and be one of those crazy cat ladies, and then I'll be posting on an online cat-lovers support group about what kind of kitty litter I should buy! (I'll miss you guys though!)

Boy, I'm having some mood swings tonight! Now I'm having fun creating a second profile on link removed. Which is where one of his is posted... ha ha. And I was just re-reading his opening line, "I think most people like me because I'm honest to a fault." (That's making me laugh at the moment!) Anyway, I pulled myself out of that slump (thank you, with your help, and everyone else who's posted!) I'm sure I'll have more, but I'm going to enjoy this moment of actually feeling OK. Oh, and I agree that most men want that connection and intimacy... just that it's possible that some men don't, for whatever reason, so their relationship priorities are different. You are being so awesome. Thanks for talking me through this!

Thanks. I'm glad you understand! It's funny- I always assume that if things don't work out it's my fault somehow, that something in me wasn't good enough. I had a friend tell me that maybe the problem is that I'm too good... maybe a man doesn't want a high level of connection and intimacy with his partner... maybe he just wants to date someone who looks good & doesn't make him think too much. And yes, I've heard that every man we meet who isn't Mr. Right gets us one step closer to the one who is. I know I've improved a lot- I used to fall for men regardless of whether they were good for me, or shared the same views on important stuff like family, religion, & politics. At least I'm getting closer. This was a good one... we connected on all those levels. It might have been perfect... except for the tiny problem that he doesn't want me!

Nope. I thought that if we went the friend route it would all be the same, except for no kissing and I'd pay for myself when we went out. Even if he's in his "cave", if he cared at all he'd make some tiny effort (a short call, a short email) to let me know everything is OK & he's still just processing stuff. He wouldn't want me to get upset about it. He'd also have called to see if I was OK after the snow storm.

Yep. He went from "I want to take this slowly & build a healthy relationship" and "I'm not looking for anyone else, I don't think there's anyone out there who's better than you" to "I can't be in a romantic relationship with anyone right now". But he's obviously looking. Yep. The answer is so obvious, isn't it? I shouldn't be wasting so much time on this. I wish it didn't hurt so much.

Thanks Annie. Sorry I'm being such a pain about this. I just didn't see it coming, especially since he told me repeatedly how important I am to him, and we agreed that we'd be friends no matter what.

Yep. He kissed me on date 6, then 9 through 13. (Yes, I'm a dork, I kept track.) He told me he was really attracted to me but he was too scared to go any faster. His actions (calling me daily, seeing me 3 or 4 times a week, making plans in advance) seemed to belie his words. I was trusting what he did & what he told me about his feelings for me. I tried to hear him about going slowly & I thought we were.

OK. I'm going to quit wallowing & go read a funny book, maybe meditate, maybe take a nap.

I can't even talk to my mom right now. She keeps asking what we did this weekend, did he come over & help me shovel today, has he seen the brochure I designed. It's just too painful & I know I'll start crying if I tell her about it.

I know. I don't follow everything TR says. As you know, I've used them to learn how to not chase men & not go where I'm not wanted (at least, that's what I'm trying to do). But I'm too innocent, too ready to believe that if I have an impulse to do something, I should do it. I wasn't even thinking "should I send this" at first, because I didn't think anything was wrong. I guess I should have just shut down and not sent the last 2 when I realized there was a problem. We were on a basis of daily communication. He'd call me at least once a day. We'd had a great time together that day & everything seemed normal... up until he sent me home early. It's OK though. I've pulled back. I haven't sent him anything else & I haven't called him at all since we saw each other last Saturday. I'm feeling miserable again. I thought he was my friend no matter what, and I trusted him.

The first 4 emails weren't about "us" at all... just one-line things w/links to sites, a comment on something we were working on, stuff like that. I only email him once a week or so, with jokes & stuff. The 5th was the "hey can we talk", which he didn't respond to. 24 hours later I sent the 6th, which was the "sorry I bothered you, have a nice life" (OK, THAT was moving into psycho territory!) Anyway, I wasn't persistently sending emails he wasn't responding to... just a "batch" that first night, like I'd send to anyone. I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't hunting him down or being psycho... not on the first 4 anyway! But no, I'm not sending any more emails. Not even jokes. He can get his laughs elsewhere!

I know. I'm not saying TR is perfect! It just helped me a lot to learn how to quit chasing guys & to focus on myself & my happiness. (As you know, I still don't have that one down 100%)

Thanks Patience! Yep, he's probably not that into me. It's possible he's just "scared", but like other people have pointed out, if that was the case he wouldn't have an active profile on a dating site. Oh well.

Actually, there's a lot of good to The Rules. Many people think it's about manipulation & trying to trick a man (any old man will do) into committing, but I've found that the underlying message is "Go where you're wanted!" I've traditionally been a guy-chaser... sometimes it's worked (temporarily), most of the time it hasn't, and it's always led to heartache. For me, The Rules taught me to be true to myself and trust that by not chasing a man, by not getting too involved right off the bat (I used to be a notorious "sex-on-the-first-or-second-date" girl!), & by observing his actions and allowing him to "weed himself out", that I could create the conditions in which the right man for me would come into my life. Right now I'm in limbo with a guy I really like. I'm in the middle of no-contact (if he wants to talk to me, he'll call), and I'm forcing myself to start dating others. I don't want to date anyone else, but I realize that I need to open myself up to other possibilites. One of the TR tenets is to date a lot of people until you decide to commit to one person. Otherwise, all the pressure & focus is on one man, the phone is your best friend & worst enemy, and everything he says or does is cause for major obsession. Plus I think men can sense our energy... they know if we're sending intense laser-beams of emotion at them, even if we're not talking to them. Backing off & dating other people diffuses that energy. Regarding the 8 week wait, Dreamie explained it pretty well, but it's not set in stone. I recommend that you check the book out of the library or peruse it at Borders. It's called "Getting To 'I Do'", by Pat Allen. There are steps to take before initiating the 8 ww, a way of stating your intentions, to let the man know what you're looking for. Otherwise he might just think you're no longer interested if he calls a few times & doesn't hear back from you. It goes something like this: "I really care for you, but I'm looking for a more committed relationship. I realize that you're not ready right now, but if you ever decide that you'd like to pursue a commitment with me, I'd like to hear from you." If he calls & suggests "hanging out" or seems to be trying the same old stuff, you don't engage with him. If he calls and says "I've been thinking a lot about this, I don't want to lose you, I'd really like to take this to the next level", then you talk to him. It doesn't necessarily happen at 8 weeks. It might take 2, or 5... the premise is that if a man doesn't miss you and realize that you're "The One" by the end of 8 weeks, he probably never will, and by that time you're pretty much over him anyway, so it doesn't hurt so much. There's a lot more to it, and I'm sure I didn't explain it perfectly, so that's why, if you're interested, you should check out the book itself. One of the things about that book and The Rules is the focus on marriage. Not everyone necessarily wants to get married, and the assumption that a relationship is worthless unless the man shows up with a ring is wrong, in my opinion. There's a lot of good to those books, though. I wish you luck. This is the hardest part, but you'll get through it. Hang in there!

Thanks so much you guys! I'm backsliding a little bit, I think partly because I'm snowed in & just feeling soooo sorry for myself. I had to shovel out the barn this morning & it sucked because a week ago I could have just called & asked him to come help me. And I had to climb into my Jeep through the back because my front doors were frozen shut. Part of me thinks that if he cares, he'll call to see if I'm OK, because he knows I'm a single mom & it's hard to do all this stuff by myself. And that if he doesn't call, he's showing that he doesn't care about me or my kids. I hate winter. But I've always made it through on my own, and I can do it this year, too. You all have such good insight. The problem is, since I've known him, he's been consistently honest, which is why I don't get the lying thing. Maybe he's not lying. I know I've gotten emails from him in the past that wound up in my bulk folder, so I look through everything before I delete it now. Part of me thinks that if he didn't get my "It's OK" response, he'll think I didn't respond because I'm mad at him. He's pretty insecure, too, and scared of being hurt again. But if I call him, it will just be affirming his opinion that I want him more than he wants me. (In a sense, he'll "win", because I made the first move & proved that he's right.) You made some great points, Belle. Yes, I've probably been "pushing" him in subtle ways. I have a very strong personality, and it's so hard for me to be low-key. My energy can be kind of intense, so even though I have good intentions, it probably shows. I like what you said about "mirroring". It's so important to follow a guy's lead, and that's what I'm trying to do. It is SO hard though!!! I'm the kind of girl who will grab a guy, drag him onto the dance floor, & step on his toes while I'm trying to dip him! (OK, not literally, but that's my energy!) "Demure" and "subtle" are extremely difficult for me to pull off! I guess I'll just keep lying low. Even if he thinks I'm mad at him, even if he thinks I don't want to talk to him, that's better than continuing the current dynamic. Something has to shift. I'd rather have him be scared 'cuz he thinks I'm gone than be scared 'cuz he thinks I'm after him! Patience, the last time he called me was last Saturday, right before we went out. When he emailed me on Wednesday he said "I'll call you in a day or two, 'K?" Oh well. The good news is, my link removed profile just got approved. At least I'm taking some steps in the right direction! Thanks for being here for me.

Nope, no, I can't call him. That would just make me look like I'm chasing him. He already knows what the deal is. I have to chill out. Why is this so hard?

I hate calling guys unless I know they want to hear from me... I used to be a guy-chaser & I'd call & call & call someone I liked- it took me forever to break the habit! I don't want to fall back into that old behavior. My feeling is that if a guy wants to talk to me, he'll call me. Other than the emails I sent last weekend (which he must have gotten, but maybe he didn't?), I've only sent him one response to his email this week (on Wednesday... again, did he get it?). He needs space, I'm giving him space. But yes, I want to call him. Maybe he didn't get my email.

I'm a little confused... you've only seen her once? And you say you'll see her 3 more times before Valentine's Day, and that will be your "official" first date? Sorry, I don't get it! Don't overanalyze this or wait too long to kiss her. The guy I was seeing (and nuts about!) took 5 (or 6?) dates to kiss me... and it made me insane & insecure. I couldn't figure out what was going on with him... did he like me? Was I just a friend? All I saw were mixed signals & it drove me nuts. Kissing is totally expected. Holding back from having sex right away, yes... always a good idea. But when a guy doesn't kiss a girl he likes, it throws off the natural rhythms of dating (IMHO). If you're forcing yourself to not do something you want to do, you're denying the natural energy flow of the relationship. You might wind up shooting yourself in the foot. Saying "I love you" too soon though... that's a much bigger mistake than kissing "too soon" (I don't think there's such a thing as kissing too soon, BTW!) THAT can just scare someone away. So be cool about that one... when you start to feel the overwhelming urge to blurt that one out, post here & we can help you figure out if it's the right time!

Nothing's wrong with you. Just kiss her or you'll make her go insane. (The bad kind, not the "nuts about you" kind). You both like each other, just do it! Have fun.

This made me laugh... it's mean, but funny! I'm having a tough time. Now I've crossed into "What if he didn't get my last message so he thinks I'm mad at him?" territory. Because his comment to me ("After not hearing from you Sunday or Monday") makes NO sense. Why would he tell such a bald-faced lie? He's not that kind of guy. Even if he was, how could someone say "I haven't heard from you" after getting 6 emails? That's just craziness!!! So now my brain is whispering "Maybe he didn't get those messages... maybe he didn't get your 'it's OK' response... maybe you should just give him a quick call to see..." Which totally sucks. If he did get my messages last week & lied about it, that's just totally cruel on his part. I want to give him space, and thinking like that makes me just want to call him. I just don't know why he would lie about it!!! Up until now, he has been very honest and open with me. I don't get it.

Awww... what a sweetie you are! I think those ideas sound great! So you're saying that the first time you took her out was to a movie? (Sorry, I got a little confused in the middle there!) If so, I think it's cool to re-create the first date. You can be all snuggly & romantic with her while you're in the theatre. Plus you'll be having dinner, too, so it's not like the movie is all there is to the night. Good luck! Congratulations on making it a year together!

Hey Annie, Well, he was making me happy. I felt very energized & peaceful when I was with him. We talked about so many things, and I rediscovered many parts of myself that I'd forgotten or thought were lost forever. I just felt very positive in general & very content. Thankfully, those feelings are still there. I'm sad but not destroyed. There was a time when I would have turned myself inside out to try to get him to love me, but I've learned to stop doing that. I've been able to "hook" men in the past & get them into a relationship with me, but it never worked out & it always turned out awful. It took a long time for me to learn to stop chasing men & trying to earn their love. I wasn't even looking for a serious relationship when I met him. I had a couple of online profiles up & I'd gone on a few dates, but nothing serious. Then when I met him, I was like, "WOW!!! Holy cow, this might be The One!!!" Geesh. Everything was fine a week ago. I'd be bopping along in my car, singing at the top of my lungs, thinking of how happy he made me. Completely unaware that I was about to go dancing off a cliff!!!

Oooh, the more I think about this the more irritated I get!!! In his email to me he said he thought I wanted a more serious, committed relationship. Now THAT just makes me mad!!! We've talked about the situation several times, and I have told him that I'm OK with whatever form our relationship takes, whether we're just friends or more than that. We have talked about sex, and agreed that it should happen when/if we decided to be in a committed relationship... my feeling is that it's OK to date other people until you reach the point where you know you want to be exclusive with someone, and then it's appropriate to become sexual. I have told him he should date other people, because he needs to be sure he's making the right choice before he settles down. And I'm not being hypocritical; no, I wouldn't necessarily like it, but I wouldn't want him to be with me & have any doubts about it. What makes me mad is that he insisted he's not looking for anyone else!!! AND that he doesn't think there's anyone better than me out there! So much for Mr. "Honest & open communication is essential... I want to build a healthy relationship slowly, on a foundation of trust." I haven't pushed him one bit. I never initiate calls to him (although I do return his calls)... I never ask him for more than what he's giving... I'm always happy with whatever we're doing & I let him know it (ie, I don't get sulky because he's not "committing"!) I have told him that I'm fine with just dating him for now & taking it slowly. I haven't asked for anything more from him, verbally or nonverbally!!! And yes, I have been very happy with the time we've spent together. I haven't felt that anything was lacking. I'm not at all impressed that he lied to me about being "so very tired" last weekend. I would have preferred that he simply tell me he wasn't up for company, or this wasn't working for him. I think that was pretty slimy. Especially since he's always stressed how important honesty is to him!!! I also don't know what to make of the "I haven't heard from you" comment. THAT is just insane!!! I know that six emails sounds excessive, but they weren't bad. The first 4 were just one-liners; a link to an urban legend, a picture of a project I was working on, a request for pics of some of his work. I didn't send anything emotional, needy, or clingy. Even the 5th email I sent that night, after I'd seen him online... I didn't say what it was about, just that I needed to talk to him & I was feeling stupid. For all he knew, I could've just had a fight with my ex-husband or a friend. I expected that he would respond & want to know what was wrong. It was just the sixth email, the next night, where I basically said "OK fine, 'bye", that was a little insane. Which he also ignored. I'm mad. I think he's projecting the commitment thing onto me in order to have an excuse to bail out. I have not ONCE said "I need a commitment". I HAVE said "It's OK, I understand, no problem. As long as we're at least friends, I'm happy." And I believed that we would be friends no matter what. We have had a great time together, and yes, we are incredibly compatible. I have never met anyone else who comes close to how connected we were. We talked about everything... god, religion, politics, sex, relationships, family, the environment, music, architecture, dreams, goals, values, etc. I thought I'd found someone with whom I was completely compatible mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. I thought it was all there, and I really enjoyed being with him. Yep. I'm not impressed with this new development. Not at all. I really appreciate all of your input. I feel like I'm getting clearer about this situation. The first few days of "no contact" were excruciating (I'm used to him calling every day)... then I started re-reading all my relationship books. I decided he was in his "cave" or rubber-banding (John Gray- Mars/Venus), and that it was really a sign of how strong his feelings for me were. Ha ha ha. Nope, I don't think so. Not now that I've taken a step back and looked at all the evidence (plus read your feedback!) This is not how a man in love acts. I didn't end up going out with my friend tonight because of the weather. Bummer. I really want to NOT be home on weekends b/c he might drive by my house. (Last Friday he called me a couple of times & I didn't pick up until about 10pm... I told him he could come over & he said he was already halfway here b/c he wanted to see if I was home & just avoiding him! God, I thought it was sweet at the time, but now I think that's a little weird... I used to do that sort of thing to guys when I was younger & obsessed with them. But I grew out of it!) OK, sorry for the monster posts. I haven't told my friends or family about this because I feel stupid. I was soooo excited before & I told everyone what a great guy I'd finally met... I'm just not ready to admit that I was wrong about him. So y'all are getting a week's worth of pent-up thoughts and emotions. I appreciate everyone who's taking the time to read this & respond!

OK. We've been doing really well since our New Year's Eve talk. He's come over to my house a few times, we've continued to enjoy talking & spending time with each other, and he's even (gasp!) been kissing me. Unfortunately he's disappeared. The last time I saw him was last Saturday. Everything was great until we got back to his house. He told me he was "really really tired" & needed to go to bed, and sent me home at 11 pm. (Our dates usually last until 2 or 3 am.) I went home feeling like something was off, but I didn't know what. I went online & was messing around, & I sent him a few emails about a project we're working on... then, at 2:30 am I went to a dating site I know he's on (although he says he's not looking for anyone, he just has friends on there...)- and found that he was online. Yikes. I felt so bad. I realized that he wasn't "really really tired", he just didn't want to spend any more time with me & got rid of me. I sent him another email but didn't mention seeing him online, just said I was feeling kind of stupid & wanted to talk to him. (My other emails that night had been really light, I don't think I was over the top- just "check this out" kind of things). I didn't say my problem was with him, just that I wanted to talk to him. He didn't call the next day, and I thought he might not have gotten my message. I went back to the site at 1 am & he was on again; so then I felt like he was just ignoring me & just wanted to talk to other women. So I got kind of mad & sent him a "Guess I got things wrong, sorry about that, I had fun, good luck" email. (I know, STUPID!!!) I expected to hear back from him (ie, "Hey wait a minute, what's going on?"), but didn't. I suffered all day Monday, then Tuesday afternoon I sent him yet another email. (Definitely moving into psycho-girl territory?!?!) I apologized & said that I was worried something was wrong b/c I hadn't heard from him, and I really cared about him & didn't want to lose his friendship, what was going on, etc. He did answer this email... saying "After not hearing from you Sunday or Monday, I'm not sure what's going on, but I get the impression you think something's wrong?" (HUH?!?! In total, I sent him 6 emails!!!) He said he was confused & taking some time for himself, not to worry, he didn't want to lose my friendship but he wasn't ready for a serious relationship & he feels like I want a more committed relationship than he can give me. That he's still processing his past hurts (from his last girlfriend) and he needs to get a solid foundation under himself before he can pursue anything. He said "I'm not saying never, I'm just saying not now, if anyone's worth it, you are", and that he needs my friendship. He said it wasn't on me & to rest easy, and he'd call me in a day or two. I wrote back and said I understood, take all the time you need, I'd like to see you when you're ready. That was Wednesday, and I still haven't heard from him. I'm wondering if I've driven him off, or if "I'm not ready for a serious relationship" means he's just not ready for one... with me!!! Because I found another online dating profile that he's got up, and he's been active on it. It's a very detailed profile & it sounds like he's really looking for someone. It makes me think that he actually does want a relationship, just not with me. This just sucks. All along he's told me that he's scared & wants to take things slowly. We haven't done anything more physical than passionate kissing, and I thought we were taking things slowly. In his email to me he said he felt like things were going too fast. I thought I hadn't put any pressure on him for more than he could give; I was happy just going out with him and spending time with him... although secretly I was feeling like he might be "The One", and maybe he picked up on that. We've talked so much about everything, and I've told him repeatedly that even if we're not "meant to be" romantically, I still want his friendship. I really thought I made it clear that I wasn't expecting more from him. (Hoping, yes, but not expecting!) I'd like to believe that he's pulling away because he's just scared. But I remember the line in "He's Just Not That Into You", where the author says whenever a guy says he's "scared", the only thing he's scared of is how much he's not into you. And that a guy who really digs a girl will throw caution to the wind & go for it b/c he doesn't want to lose her. So... maybe he just doesn't have romantic feelings for me, and this is his way of telling me he just wants to be friends. Or maybe he's gone for good. I don't know. Have any of you ever run from a relationship with someone because you're scared of how much you care? And then realized they were the one for you & come back? (There's my fantasy, right there. Am I in denial?) He's said a lot of things that made me think he felt something for me. The last time he was at my house, he told me how comfortable he is here, and how easy it would be for him to get into a serious relationship with me & move in, but he can't do that right now. Eeesh. For now I'm just trying to chill out & I'm giving him his space. I've looked up events in my area & mapped out some things to do with myself for the next few weeks. Tonight I'm going dancing with a friend. I'm also going to re-activate some of my online dating profiles & make an effort to meet other men. Not that I WANT to meet anyone else, but I need to take my focus off of him. When he says "Not yet" to a romantic relationship, I'm too focused on WHEN he'll be ready. I need to get it out of my head, because "Not now" means "NO" (and truthfully, maybe not ever!) Thanks in advance for any feedback you might want to give me. I'm feeling a little shaky right now & I need some support!