Serious compatibility issue in physical department

[riverlady]

Hi there, I've been dating a guy at my university casually for about 4 months and he's been pushing me to sleep with him. However due to religious beliefs, I'm saving myself for marriage. I've discussed my values with him before, and I thought he understood, but still we can never seem to put this issue completely behind us and things would always seem to come down to this. And we're now at a standoff again. This time around he even seems to be losing interest and is acting distant. I'm not sure if there is another girl in the picture but it seems to be too much of a coincidence that he starts pulling away right around the same time that we're having a standoff on this problem. Should I just give up on ever being able to work this out with this guy because our values and expectations are too different? or is there some other way to save this besides just talking things through? Then again if he really likes or values me as a person he should be willing to compromise and accept my values no? or is 4 months too short of a period of time to expect a guy to really care for you emotionally and compromise his physical needs? How do couples with religious or some other serious differences work things out?

[Batya33]

When I was in that situation (wanting to wait until marriage) I walked away. He called me about a month later saying he had changed his mind and was willing to wait. I had already met someone else so I am not sure if it would have worked out.

[DN]

Well you are not asking him to compromise - you are asking him to do what you want.

 

You are not at all wrong for not wanting have sex before marriage - that is a valid choice. But he is not wrong for having different values and wanting sex beforehand. They are both valid choices. The problem is that you are making different choices that are mutually exclusive unless one of you gives way.

 

Neither of you should blame the other if the relationship ends over this. It will be sad and hurtful but it is not something where anyone is in the wrong.

[jimthzz]

If this truly is a religious thing for you, then you ought to end the relationship and seek out a companion from your own religious background who shares your belief in virginity until marriage.

 

The vast majority of men, and even most women for that matter, do not wait until marriage to engage in sex.

 

Is there any sexual activity short of intercourse that you would indulge in? Maybe some type of activity that would satisfy, but not ruin your stance?

[Batya33]

I completely agree with this. What I would add though - and this I read into from her post - is that it seems that he is "saying" he is ok with it but then every so often he starts acting as if he is not. Both persons need to decide whether or not they accept the situation and then act as consistently as possible. It's not fair (to either of them) if he agrees but begrudgingly and his resentment surfaces every so often. Either he accepts it and can be fine or at least neutral about it or not.

[riverlady]

I haven't had intercourse of any kind with him out of the concern that things might get out of hand. Even with just us making out, things are already looking like they can get out of hand very quickly. I had to put my foot down to keep things from getting out of control but I can tell it was a serious damper to him. We do enjoy each other's company and it's been a wonderful 4 months with the exception of this issue. Bottom line is that I'm proud of myself for staying true to my beliefs, but am torn over this situation since I still care for him and it seems that he might want to break up over this. Would it be wrong or superficial for him to wanna break up for this?

[Batya33]

It would not be shallow or superficial of him if sex is an important part of a relationship to him - and if it is important that doesn't make him shallow or superficial. Would you date someone you found unattractive? Probably not. Does that make you shallow or superficial? I don't think so, do you?

[melrich]

Would it be wrong or superficial for him to wanna break up for this?

 

I don't think so. In the same way it's not wrong for you to want to wait, it's not wrong for him to not want to wait.

 

I hate to see you painting yourself into this corner. You guys really need to have a long, open and honest conversation and see if you can find some common ground here.

[need2bme]

DN: Very well said, or, er...written.

[MissTee]

If he can't handle it... then let him go.

 

Don't sacrifice your beliefs just because he wants to .

 

Trust me, at the end of the day, you will feel worse about compromising your religious values than you will about breaking up with him.

[shikashika]

the way you are feeling about NOT wanting to have sex... is probably the same way he is feeling about WANTING to have sex.

 

You shouldn't have to sacrifice your religious beliefs.. but also he should have not have to sacrifice his wants and desires as well to wait and not have sex because of you either. It doesn't sound like you are a good match because physical intimacy is very important to many people in a relationship.

 

Personally, if I met a guy who didn't want to have sex with me.. I would walk away then and wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a guy like that. Likewise, he would be better finding a girl who did not want to have sex either.

 

I would worry if he said he would wait for you.. because then you are getting what you want.. but he is not getting what he wants.. I think both people need to be with people where they both want the same thing in regards to physical intimacy

[Skippy]

It isnt a compatitibility issue, it is a respect issue.

You have your principles and that is NOT have sex before marriage.

If he is pressuring you to, he is not respecting you.

If he is pulling away the he chooses not to respect you or our beliefs and your principles.

People are defined by their principles, is this guy worth throwing away your principles? Because this is something that when done, you cant go back.

 

Look after yourself, stand for your principles because your are defined by them. Anything that compromises principles are not worth it.

Walk away from this guy.

[shikashika]

It isnt a compatitibility issue, it is a respect issue.

You have your principles and that is NOT have sex before marriage.

If he is pressuring you to, he is not respecting you.

If he is pulling away the he chooses not to respect you or our beliefs and your principles.

People are defined by their principles, is this guy worth throwing away your principles? Because this is something that when done, you cant go back.

 

Look after yourself, stand for your principles because your are defined by them. Anything that compromises principles are not worth it.

Walk away from this guy.

 

hey.. you're making HIM out to be the bad guy!

 

From her posts.. I don't really see that.

 

Its not always the person who is 'waiting' that deserves the respect.

 

Alternatively.. one could say.."if she really loved him and respected him.. she would sleep with him.. because thats what HE wants"

 

Why is it always that we have to respect the one who DOESN'T want to have sex?

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone wanting sex in a relationship.. I know I wouldn't be in a relationship with a guy who wanted to 'wait'

[i1dr]

I admire your stance! (and I'm a guy )

You have the right principles and should - no never mind that - need to stick to them. Those kinds of principles are hard to sell out and still feel good about yourself. He probably wont understand - but truly if he does not understand or be willing to stick with you on such important to yourself principles - what good is he in a long term sense toward becoming a man worth being with for the rest of your life.

If he is smart and if he is looking for the same thing you are - he will wait.

If not. Well you have no choice when it comes to personal integrity. You will find out what he is made of. You are made of the right stuff in my book.

[DN]

I admire your stance! (and I'm a guy )

You have the right principles and should - no never mind that - need to stick to them. Those kinds of principles are hard to sell out and still feel good about yourself. He probably wont understand - but truly if he does not understand or be willing to stick with you on such important to yourself principles - what good is he in a long term sense toward becoming a man worth being with for the rest of your life.

If he is smart and if he is looking for the same thing you are - he will wait.

If not. Well you have no choice when it comes to personal integrity. You will find out what he is made of. You are made of the right stuff in my book.

Well again, I think this is imposing a particular morality on a situation and refusing to recognise that someone may have different morals. Just because someone views sex before marriage as morally ok doesn't make them somehow morally inferior. Nor does wanting to wait make you morally superior. It just makes you different. And if that difference is sufficient for one person to leave the relationship that is a valid and fair decision for them to make and does not mean that they have no integrity. If it did mean that half of the Western world would have no integrity.

[shikashika]

Well again, I think this is imposing a particular morality on a situation and refusing to recognise that someone may have different morals. Just because someone views sex before marriage as morally ok doesn't make them somehow morally inferior. Nor does wanting to wait make you morally superior. It just makes you different. And if that difference is sufficient for one person to leave the relationship that is a valid and fair decision for them to make and does not mean that they have no integrity. If it did mean that half of the Western world would have no integrity.

 

I completely agree DN,

 

Its not fair to say this guy can't compromise or has a lack of respect for this girl or has less morals... ad you say.. its just different

 

I also don't think its fair to 'force' someone to wait until marriage if its not something they want to do. The person who is 'waiting' may get what they want but the other person who is waiting just to please them may become frustrated with the situation.

 

I also think its quite selfish and somewhat disrespectful to expect someone else to give up something they enjoy doing ( sex!) so the waiting-for-marriage person can have their own way.

 

If two people have opposing views on when to have sex.. I don't think they should be in a relationship with each other.

 

Its unfair of the person who is waiting for marriage to expect their partner to change for them, but they aren't willing to give their partner what he/she wants ants by having sex with them.

[i1dr]

DN ... I think you misunderstood my point. The morality as far as being a superior or inferior is not the important part of my stance - nor should it be infered from accepting one position or another. On the contrary it is a given here that it is a personal choice. In fact it would make me a hypocrite as my morality is quite different. The point however is that morality and ones acceptance of ones own standard and one's keeping their own integrity - is vital. And in this case the poster had made their own views clear. That is to be commended for t he simple reason that they are trying to be their own person. Further more she is not trying to foist her morality on anyone else but simply standing up to someone else's attempt to change hers.

I find that refreshing and to be admired and would encourage her (as I tried to do) to stay true to her convictions.

 

There is no value judgement in that however - else I would have to get down onmyself in a pretty severe way.

 

Of course however your argument opens this wide open. If all morality is relevant and a personal choice - then we have to accept the most despicable and disgusting versions of it. I do ... though only in principle as it's tough on the emotions and I believe cheating, lying and worse are simply another set of choices. I'd still counsel against them simply because I find they go against my accepted choices and the consequence of ostracism that can come and ruin your day when ya get busted.

 

But here my admiration only comes from her being resolute - not because her choices are as mine.

 

Cheers.

[DN]

Of course however your argument opens this wide open. If all morality is relevant and a personal choice - then we have to accept the most despicable and disgusting versions of it. I do ... though only in principle as it's tough on the emotions and I believe cheating, lying and worse are simply another set of choices. I'd still counsel against them simply because I find they go against my accepted choices and the consequence of ostracism that can come and ruin your day when ya get busted.

 

I don't agree with the premise that says if one can view someone's morals as different to yours but respect their right to hold them in one particular instance that means that any morals that are different from your own must also be respected. That is an all or nothing argument.

 

Morals are not only personal but societal. If society at large is ambivalent about a particular moral viewpoint then it is likely that you should respect the right of someone to hold a different one to yours - as in the case of sex before marriage. There is no longer a universal condemnation of it in Western society. But there is of sexual assault or pedophilia for example and thereforeeee it is reasonable to refuse to accept the moral stance of someone who thinks it ok to do those things.

[i1dr]

I get what you are trying to say and don't disagree with any of it. On an individual level but not on the societal. All or nothing does apply here in a narrow way to avoid hypocrisy. For example if you think drug use is morally wrong except in the case of your friends or perfectly ok if it's heroin but disgusting if it is cocaine. Part of a moral philosophy is the adoption of linear ideas ... rather than a dodge podge of what suits someone today.

 

As to your closing line about the west being immoral - relatively speaking and how it's considered the rest of the world over - we are!

We think we like it .... but sometimes I wonder if it's not in the same thoughtless way a crack addict is in bliss - until they wake up to the consequences of their actions. I've lived in many different countries (including canada) and marvel how with so much more material wealth here, which one would think would be a recipe for relative inner wealth - how poor so many people are spiritually and emotionally. Could our relative and weak moral compass's be at least partially responsible?

 

If not ... what else could there be? (that is a question ... not a rhetoric statement)

 

But it's taking the topic off track (sorry). I commend the poster for the adhering to of moral principals that she feels inside. I encourage her to stay true to them because I believe that whatever we feel strongly about in the moral realm - that it is vital for our emotional well being to be strong and to stay true to those feelings. Let's look at all the hurt people and see how much straying from their principals makes their plight worse. Imho - it is an epidemic!

[riverlady]

Thank you to all for sharing your insights (particularly for the support that I get). You guys are awesome! Just a quick update on the situation. Currently he and I are on a break initiated by him being all distant and it feels that we're heading toward a breakup eventually. I can tell that he's been growing increasingly unhappy with the status quo of where things are physically, but this is nothing new (wouldn't be surprised if he's already looking for a backup girl). It's just a shame that we're also losing the friendship that we've had in the process (we've been friends since freshman year of college and now we're juniors). For a long time I thought he knew me well and accepted my values, but until I started dating him in these last few months I realize that things aren't as they seemed before. Not only is he acting distant these days, he's also being rude in cutting our convos short whenever I see him and claims to be very busy and stressed out with classes and his intramural sports stuff to have time to get together. Can this get anymore ridiculous? I want to work this out but my willpower and patience are severely tested, and don't want to be the only one trying to mend the fences here. Anyone else thinks I should throw in the towel?

[i1dr]

Give him time. Ignore the hard parts and presume the best of him. If he was a good friend he deserves that. Who knows what the future will bring.

[Northalius]

If he's pushing you to have sex with him even after discussing, and agreeing to, your personal choice to remain a virgin until marriage, then he's disrespecting you. This is not a good sign for him being the one for you, imo. I'd seriously consider seeking out another man that'll respect your wishes.

 

But on the other hand, if you knew he didn't want to wait until marriage to have sex (?), yet are pressuring him to stay with you until marriage to have sex, then you'd be as wrong as he is.

 

So, are you pressuring him to remain 'sexless' until marriage? Or did he verbally say "I'll respect your wishes and wait until marriage." at first, but now pressuring you?

 

If he agreed to wait before, yet is now pressuring you, then he's in the wrong here.

 

If he said he can't wait until marriage, yet you stayed with him anyway, then you guys both made the wrong choice by staying with each other knowing both didn't see eye-to-eye on this issue.

 

My opinion on it, anyway.

[i1dr]

Very,very well put yokeydokey. It is a philosophy that is not often thought of but I think it is worthy of consideration. Nice!

[chocolady]

I think from his perceptive he might feel that if the woman he is in a relationship with doesn't want him 'there and then' like he does them, that she is not 'the one' for him.

 

I certainly would feel that way to a certain degree and I NEED sex in my relationship and in my life so I would walk away because deep down I am looking for something 'different'.

[Remade]

What do you want? Do you want him more than your religion? Or do you care more about religion? You can't have it both. What he thinks doesn't matter. If he doesn't value your ways then he doesn't matter to you.