chocolady

I watched this film as part of a course I am attending and I just had to share it with you all. It has such a powerful message and would be found unethical in today's world but is something that everyone in the world should watch. If you only find the time to watch the 'the daring lesson', 'day two' and 'teaching it to adults' you will understand what I mean I am just jaw droppingly affected by this and wondered if you felt the same? link removed

'Making love' is not unrealistic or idealistic, it comes from maturity, depth of feeling and really is in a class of it's own and at 43, being together with my husband for 25 years I should know. When you experience it for yourself, you will realise that it's not just intense or great sex, or a form of bonding and that no others words can or do explain it. It really is Making Love and it's the most fantasitc thing in the world to share with your lover. Wait and see. But I have to say that it really IS unrealistic to expect to make love within a few weeks.

Start swooning over babies, but don't make it look like pressure of any kind because that's NOT the intention. Say things like 'aww isn't she cute' and 'omg, look at that little baby oufit, look at how small it is' and look starry eyed and with longing. It will probably(hopefully) open his eyes to and draw his attention to how much you would love one, which is what usually happens anyway before couples start a family.

Have you asked her straight out what she wants from you? Have you told her want you want from her? That is a very good start. Get a babysitter, crack open a bottle and SHARE as adults what you both want. How can you fix things if you don't know what the problem is or what you both want and need from each other? I also think the spark gets dampened because women and men turn into mothers and fathers and don't set any time aside for good honest fun alone, especially sexually. It's so easy t put aside sex because of the children awake throught the night, in the way etc. Always, always make that time, it will pay off in plenty. I think it's unfair for one to take all the blame, she is as much to blame for not communicating her wants and needs and you are to blame for accepting all the blame. You NEED to talk about what you BOTH want.

Alas, the perils of not meeting before you let your emotions flow. And I'm not preaching, I've done it myself. I guess what gets us through is not taking it personally and understanding that inside them there is some sort of doubt, whether it be meeting up and falling for each other, because that has it's own problems- will he/she expect me to move away from family and friends somewhere down the line? Or just that reality hits home, that this is turning real now and could possibly be a long term relationship then they are not ready for that or the explaining of herself and YOU to her family and friends whom all will be sceptical. Or, it could just be that they think that meeting off the net is for weirdos. Unfair I know seeing as they have never met you or given you to chance to 'prove' your not. Whatever it is, and it could be a combination of all those things, or something completely different, somewhere inside them despite really liking you they have doubt and cannot see a long term future and don't want the hassle and all we can do is accept that it wasn't meant to be. What worked for me was staying off the net for a while, understanding that somethings we have no control over,it's not our fault they have doubts and this works....Hold your head high and say to yourself.... IF NOT YOU, THEN SOMEONE BETTER!!

I think from his perceptive he might feel that if the woman he is in a relationship with doesn't want him 'there and then' like he does them, that she is not 'the one' for him. I certainly would feel that way to a certain degree and I NEED sex in my relationship and in my life so I would walk away because deep down I am looking for something 'different'.

I've been where she is and I know that when a guy likes me and keeps hassling me, it is a turn off. But then when he backs off I think awww he's a nice guy and I should give it a go, so I make a concerted effort to be available and call him first to show my interest. But if he backs off too much and becomes too distant I feel like he now playing games and that I'm wasting my time so I back off completely and it's over. Because I made that 'committment' to give it a go, he needs to step up to the plate, like I did and be as attentive as he was in the first place. Him becoming 'aloof' just makes my initital gut feeling that it's not going to work out comes back. Not sure if that makes much sense but hope it helps.

I must admit I absolutely HATE talking on the phone. I can't ever think of a thing to say, or I get self awareness..I'm not like this in real life, I can talk to anyone about anything and I'm worried that he will be put off by me being tongue-tied. It's getting to the stage where I 'feel' he thinks I'm messing him about but I'm not...I've told him that i'm not good on the phone and he seems to understand and I know it's something that has to be done and I WANT to talk to him but I'm having palpitations just thinking about it. So when you talk on the phone for the first time, what do do you talk about? How long should the conversation be? Is it ok to say hi and bye quickly? Any suggestions or tips?

If you can't remember, then ASK AGAIN!!!! Then do some research.

I wish I had the answers for you. All I can say is that people who commit sucide aren't thinking rationally. Because if they were, they would see and understand that they have irrational thoughts and feelings of never being free from their 'problems' and the suffering it causes them and wouldn't do it. If they WERE thinking rationally, they would seek help, talk to people, do ALL the things that rational people would do under those circumstances but they aren't. I don't think that ANYONE will ever truly understand why their loved one kills themselves, not ever. All we can get is a glimmering to what they might have been going through and I think thats the best we can hope for. I found a good page that gives good solid advice and I hope this wil help you in some small way. link removed

It goes against every moral code. It is never ok to lie, hurt and destroy lives of the people that you (supposedly) love most for your own sexual gratification. NEVER.

The point I am trying to make is that you MIGHT possibly HAVE TO accept that she wants you out of her life forever and you should start thinking about that. It might not go your way. And actually I am not a girl, I am a 43 year old widow who was married for happy 18 years to my childhood sweetheart so I know what makes a good relationship and how to make it work. But I also know that you have to accept that some things are beyond our control and have to be accepted. I have NEVER emailed you. I have made two posts on this thread besides this one, thats all. And I HAVE read her last mail to you and ALL your other posts and have noticed that you either become angry or ignore every single one of those posters who tell you something that you don't want to hear, including me it seems. But you seem to be missing the fact that every one of those posters, including me, has your best interests at heart, we don't want you to end up hurt or lost in heartache, become overwhelmed or obsessive to the point that you can't accept or let go. Even if it is difficult to listen to or believe, it's true. GIRL POWER - If it makes your anger at me feel more justified.

I think that it's thrown you for a loop that she didn't jump to your offer and has left you hanging. She's practically telling you by her actions that you don't have any control over her anymore and she is doing things from now on her way, whether you like it or not and that is something you have no choice but to accept. And you never did answer the question... What will you do if she DOES confirm, comes around and takes her stuff back and walks out of your life forever? What then? What will you do? Accept it, let go and move on? Because I'm beginning to wonder, I really am.

I'm so sorry to hear what has happened. I wish there was something I could say to make it all make sense for you and I can only guess why he did this. From what you have written it sounds to me like he was extremely depressed, things just got on top of him, he had more pain that he could cope with. He lost his wife and then his children, and losing his children by giving up his rights to them (even if it was the best thing for them), was the final straw and more than he could bear and FELT inside that he had nothing to live for. People who are unstable aren't thinking rationally, and DESPITE trying everything they can think of, ALL they can think about is the pain inside them, and what caused that pain and more importantly, how they can rid themselves of it. The pain becomes overwhelming and they see no end to it ever. Negative thoughts playing over and over in their mind just reaffirms their worthlessness and talks them into BELIEVING that there IS no end and never will be. Hope is lost. I honestly believe that if he did not love you all that there would be no pain inside him. He would have felt reilef and move on happily in his life, wouldn't he? You were a child at the time, you had probably never even heard the word Suicide or not understood what it had meant even if you did. And I think that everyone at some point feels or thinks, why didnt I do this, why didn't I do that, Why didnt he tell me, why? why? why? But the truth is, how could anyone have known how he felt inside, emotional pain does not have external symptoms, nobody could see or feel what was going on inside him. I think that to accept what has happened, everyone needs to understand and this page might give you just SOME understanding to why people do such a drastic and irreversable thing. link removed

Ever thought that she might feel exactly the same?

My husband used to be in a motorcycle club and went on rallies at least 4 times a year. The only time I wasn't 'allowed' to go was then they were expecting trouble with rival bike clubs such as the HA where it would have been dangerous to go. My heart used to be in my mouth but in no way would I have tried to stop him, it was who he was and where he needed to be. Every other time though, there was no question of me going, he wanted me to go and I loved going, for the atmosphere, for the live music and the relaxed, totally free lifestyle. But there were other guys who never took their women because the women were 'straight', and wouldnt fit in, or because they were selfishly out to enjoy themselves regardless of the womans feelings. I personally would not have put up with that. If you are afraid he will cheat on you with these scantily clad women, don't be. Alot of these women are models brought in by promoters or have BF's/ husbands and even if there were a few who are single, it doesn't mean that he would cheat on you or they would want to have sex with him.. He's probably been going by himself for many years and thinks you would cramp his style. But I must admit it does sounds to me like he is trying to keep his bike life and his personal life with you separate and that as you are finding out, doesn't work.

Then don't send it.

As a mother of a 17 year old son I'm telling you that whatever you do.... DON'T MISS THAT!!!. He thought of YOU worrying at home so he called. He cares about others enough to stay with them in a supportive role. He can't be all bad. I think there is still hope. Have you ever though of family counselling, would you both be willing to give it a shot?

Then you have to do what you feel deep down is right for you. In my opinion, and speaking from experience...this man is seriously messed up right now and this woman is being used to soften the blow of grief and to forget the pain. There is no way on this earth that after 3 short months he has moved on from his late wife, no way on earth. Just be glad it's not you. BTW, you have a right to be hurt.

Thanks Annie.

This man practically begged me to meet him EVERYTIME we talked, pursued me for months, told me we'd take things nice and slowly when I told him I was scared and now this? What a loser....I just deleted him.

Ok I don't get it. Everything was going great, decided this guy is worth it and was going to set a date this weekend to meet but then this happened.... SO the same thing happened the next day. I got confused and annoyed, I messaged him saying "r u ignoring me"? and he said "nooooooooo" and then he said "My MSN is playing up. Honest".. then nothing. Sat there for like twenty minutes waiting for a reply, but nothing. So I sent him a mail saying that I felt like an idiot siting there talking to myself and for him to get in touch when he was fixed. He sent one back saying "Been trying to tell you that MSN is playing up. I tried re-booting a few times but no luck. Will try again tomorrow, sleep well xx" I replied and said ok speak soon and wished him a goodnight x. Today, he follows me onto 'our' site within minutes, has been online most of the evening (I hoped waiting for me?) but when I signed in.. no reply, so I asked him if he was fixed yet? And he replied I think so. I thought ok, give him the benefit here and we started chatting again. He then said that he had his tea on and that he wasn't going to ignore me, he just having some soup so I said "ok enjoy", and that was it! I sat there like a lemon for over half hour, then messaged him saying "Hey I'm off, night x" and went into 'offline' . he went into auto away not long after. I mean, if this guy likes me, why the hell didn't he come back? On his profile he states that Trust is number one to him and Honesty is a close second and I consider myself more than capable of both but he really is making it difficult for me here. I feel so pathetic because I know that if I was out of this, the answers to this question would be obvious to me but I'm too hurt and angry and can't step back yet. He has no idea how difficult this is for me, it will be the first step into dating for me since my husband died and he knows this... Why is he messing me about? What the hell is going on? And what should I do about it?

Thanks will do. But he is 4 and a half hours away so it's going to be more like a dinner and him in an hotel for the night. It could be why I'm stalling. Guess I just need to swallow my fears and take the plunge. And thanks Annie, I will by that book, I think I need it.

Thanks Annie, actually it was me stalling, not him. I was worried that it would be awkward but after reading what you wrote I guess I should meet him ASAP. Thanks again, Choco.

Annie, seeing as you have done the online dating thing and I am new to all this I would just like to ask you... If two people talk, for say 2 months, maybe longer, wouldn't it be easier to meet them in person? I mean, wouldn't you be more able to 'walk' right into a date/possible relationship and get on better with someone have talked daily to and probably have cammed several times, talked on the phone to regulary, rather than a stranger you have only exchanges emails with? I just wondered what your experience of this was. Thanks.