honesty NOT always best?

[Daddy Bear]

being in a relationship where it is always safe to tell your partner the truth and know that you can expect the same in return is wonderful. but are there other situations in which it is a wise idea to tell a lie?

 

 

taken from link removed:

 

Psychologist Robert Feldman of the University of Massachusetts found in a study that good liars tend to be more popular. Not only do they avoid hurting other's feelings, they have mastered certain social skills or they wouldn't be successful liars.

 

Another study showed no difference between men and women in the frequency of lying, but it did find a difference in subject matter.

 

"Women were more likely to lie to make the person they were talking to feel good, while men lied most often to make themselves look better," Feldman says.

 

 

i have heard it repeated again and again on ENA that honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. to those who would claim this, let me pose one question (and let's be civil--my last thread went literally up in flames):

 

let's say your daughter marries a man who then begins to show signs of psychosis. he physically attacks her and tells her that he will kill her if she leaves him. under police escort, she gathers her belongings to take to another city where she is to live with relatives. her husband knows the location of this home but is unaware of her intended destination. on her way out the door, this man asks her where she is going.

 

would you want her to answer truthfully?

[alteer]

let's say your daughter marries a man who then begins to show signs of psychosis. he physically attacks her and tells her that he will kill her if she leaves him. under police escort, she gathers her belongings to take to another city where she is to live with relatives. her husband knows the location of this home but is unaware of her intended destination. on her way out the door, this man asks her where she is going.

 

would you want her to answer truthfully?

 

This happened to me.......only I didn't marry him........and no he wasn't told the truth. He was psychotic and telling him the truth would have endangered my life. I think there are certain times that lying is acceptable. Especially when your life is in danger!

[annie24]

well, I think it is obvious that in the case of bodily harm, lying is more than fine. The girl could be killed if she tells the truth.

 

why are you using this story to back up the hypothesis that liars are more popular?

[RayKay]

Erm...I think that "honesty is the best policy" is something that has to be related to the situation.

 

No of course my future daughter should not tell her abusive partner where she is leaving too...but at that point they are not in a "day to day" situation, her life is dependent on it, and she owes him nothing. If your life is on the line, than I would hardly say "honesty is the best policy".

 

I also think there are times where white lies are appropriate....like not telling your partner they look hideous with their new haircut, especially if they are already self conscious. Instead, you can say, it's fine, but your other look suits you better...or flatters your cheekbones better.

 

 

However, I think having open communication with your partner, being honest about your future goals (ie someone whom does not want to get married probably should bring this up earlier!), being honest about your friendships, time, etc....those are very good things. I think if you are finding you are lying in a relationship continously....or hiding things from one another...it is time to re-evaluate the relationship.

[melrich]

"honesty is the best policy"

 

Usually - yes. Always - no.

 

Posts here asking whether to tell the truth or not usually get the response it is best to...as you say.

 

But if someone posted a situation where by telling the truth they may come to physical harm I don't think members would trot out the old "honesty is the best policy"

[itsallgrand]

Everybody lies all the time. lol. It's true - or am I lying?

 

Holding back important info is a form of lying. There are many, many forms of lies.

 

I do believe that there are times that lying is essential. All the time! It's to whom, for what, and how we do it.

And are we or are we not comprimising our integrity as a human being in the process? Are we causing harm? Are we causing harm we don't know about?

 

There are rare instances where a person's actual survival is at stake and a lie is the only option.

Think about it.

Most of the time, it is layers of excuses and a house of lies already built - and suddenly the person has a moral dilemma over some perceived true lie.

 

Another question that comes to mind is "How do we perceive the nature of lies? What are our awareness' as far as our own personal gauges of the moral nature of lies"?

 

It's all very complicated.

 

Ultimately though, lies distort and halt communication.

Do we want that?

[mmmending]

Slightlybent,

 

Consider this:

 

let's say your daughter marries a man who then begins to show signs of psychosis. (...) her husband knows the location of this home but is unaware of her intended destination. on her way out the door, this man asks her where she is going.

"I'm not discussing that." is an honest, truthful, and honestly compassionate reply.

 

Honest, because it is a relatively impartial statement of reality, not intended to manipulate, or fabricate a misleading perception of the asker's reality.

 

Truthful, because it clearly states the genuine position and relative perception of the respondent's reality.

 

Honestly compassionate, because it authentically acknowledges both the asker - the question was answered, if even in a manner that did not shed light on the content of the question - and the respondent - compassionate in that it respects her self-preservation instinct, and demarcates a boundary to ensure her well-being.

[Skippy]

errhhh...

it depends on what you want in your life.

 

If you want to be POPULAR with alot of people with no good friends then by all means lie, even white lie. what ever.

 

But to me, i would rather the truth be told to me (occasionally a white lie on how i look) but in the end i would rather have more truthful and loyal friend that can tell me the way it is then to be popular. True friends are few because they will tell you the way things are when crap happens. I would not want someone telling a lie to make me feel good thus making me make wrong decisions. So in the end, i will tell the truth, painful or not, as to give the person i am talking to a true perspective on what i think. In the end they will know that with this guy you will get the truth thus there are not hidden agendas, true friendship can be made.

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

"Women were more likely to lie to make the person they were talking to feel good, while men lied most often to make themselves look better," Feldman says.

 

 

Can I just say....LOL!!! Ok thanks it's out of my system, shall we move on?

 

 

i have heard it repeated again and again on ENA that honesty is ALWAYS the best policy.

 

Honesty's so overrated. You can't apply it as a blanket policy. Integrity is better.

 

Psychologist Robert Feldman of the University of Massachusetts found in a study that good liars tend to be more popular. Not only do they avoid hurting other's feelings, they have mastered certain social skills or they wouldn't be successful liars.

 

I've had a long time friend who that statement fits to a tee. Example: She goes out and tells the drug users how much she loves to use drugs (which she actually doesn't use them)...then the next day tells her church-friends how dispicable drugs and drug users are...Everything to everyone....

 

let's say your daughter marries a man who then begins to show signs of psychosis. he physically attacks her and tells her that he will kill her if she leaves him. under police escort, she gathers her belongings to take to another city where she is to live with relatives. her husband knows the location of this home but is unaware of her intended destination. on her way out the door, this man asks her where she is going.

 

would you want her to answer truthfully?

H*** NO!! Even an outright lie would be justified here.

[tylercdurden2004]

Holding back important info is a form of lying. = Dissembling =to put on a false appearance conceal facts, intentions, or feelings under some pretense

 

 

Yes the whole idea of lying is dispicable!!!! There now that I got my lying outta my system.

 

Fact is everyone at some point has told or will tell A lie. Lies can be a social glue. How many men LOVE hearing the question "do you think I have gained weight honey?"

 

Here is a case where you answer (if in fact she has gained weight):

 

A) NO - which is a lie

 

B) NO but you have put on a bit of weight - honesty and will most likely do you no good what so ever.

 

C) I LOVE THE WAY YOU LOOK - which is dissembling. You are not directly answering the question.

 

I in fact made the consious decision not to lie one day when I was younger I kept getting in more trouble when I would get caught. So i didnt lie for how long I cant remember but it was a while. Then I realized that this option was no good either. I ended up in trouble alll the time or I hurt peoples feelings. Some people lie more than others but it is a necessary evil.

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

it is a necessary evil.

 

I think it pretty much is that.

[Daddy Bear]

thank you all for your thought-provoking input. this is what i came here for--to challenge my own beliefs and to find people who had better answers than my own.

 

mmmending:

"I'm not discussing that." is an honest, truthful, and honestly compassionate reply.

try as i might, i can't find a single flaw in that stunningly solid response to my question. let me then take it to the extreme, just for the sake of argument: if someone put a gun to your head and said, "lie to me right now, or i will shoot you," what should you do then?

[CarnelianButterfly]

If I were the woman, I would say "Somewhere away from you". It is the truth.

I think telling the truth keeps you from burdening yourself with the weight of lies. If you always tell the truth you never have to think of what to say because you already know.

[renaissancewoman101]

After seeing the way my best friend lives his life as a closeted gay guy, I am starting to think that telling the truth is a lot better than living the lie he is living right now. He is very much still in the closet about his sexuality and lives a lie at work, with his family and his friends (he doesnt have a lot of friends anymore). All this coverup he is doing is causing him a lot of stress since he has to keep up with his lies, etc., and it has caused him to age a lot. Today I was talking with him on the phone and we were discussing him being so much in the closet. He finally admitted to me that he sometimes wishes he had NOT been so much in the closet because all the lying he is doing is killing him emotionally and physically. So, in many ways, honesty is a good policy. When you lie you have to constantly remember the lies, build on it, and it becomes confusing and pretty soon you ARE living those lies.

[Momene]

Unfortunately, in these "enlightened" 21st century times there is enough prejudice around that a lot of gay people do find it easier to stay in the closet. I can't speak too much for the US but homophobia is alive and "well" in England.

[becallamjr]

let's say your daughter marries a man who then begins to show signs of psychosis. he physically attacks her and tells her that he will kill her if she leaves him. under police escort, she gathers her belongings to take to another city where she is to live with relatives. her husband knows the location of this home but is unaware of her intended destination. on her way out the door, this man asks her where she is going.

 

would you want her to answer truthfully?

 

Truth is always the best policy and i stick by that statement. If I had a daughter go through this and he asked before she left where she was going? Is it not still the truth if she were to say "somewhere, where you will never hurt me again" or something to that effect?

[Momene]

Truth is always the best policy and i stick by that statement. If I had a daughter go through this and he asked before she left where she was going? Is it not still the truth if she were to say "somewhere, where you will never hurt me again" or something to that effect?

 

You can be honest without being a complete open book.

[Daddy Bear]

After seeing the way my best friend lives his life as a closeted gay guy, I am starting to think that telling the truth is a lot better than living the lie he is living right now.

interestingly, RW, it was a closeted gay man's comment in another thread that got me thinking about doing this topic.

[babypink61]

Hmmm I think it depends on the situation. I've learned my mistake of telling my bf TOO MUCH of my past relationships and we have gotten into fights over it. He said he would rather not know . . . but at the time I thought it's good for the couple to be open about their past, I guess not in this case. Sometimes lilttle white lies would not hurt . . . if you apply them to the appropriate situation . . .

[RayKay]

Hmmm I think it depends on the situation. I've learned my mistake of telling my bf TOO MUCH of my past relationships and we have gotten into fights over it. He said he would rather not know . . . but at the time I thought it's good for the couple to be open about their past, I guess not in this case. Sometimes lilttle white lies would not hurt . . . if you apply them to the appropriate situation . . .

 

Um, yeah in cases like that it is NOT good to detail your past experiences with other men. I don't want to know the details of my boyfriend's past relationships/encounters either! Even when people say "they want to know" and "it's in the past so it's fine it won't matter", they really don't and it often turns out it DOES matter!

[mmmending]

Slightlybent,

 

Well.. *ahem*..

 

(...)let me then take it to the extreme, just for the sake of argument: if someone put a gun to your head and said, "lie to me right now, or i will shoot you," what should you do then?

...what would I "do"? I'd probably be watching my life flash before me in my mind's eye. Having a gun held to my head, I'd be disinclined to debate or banter with someone poised at the trigger.

 

If the gunman were the psychotic from the previous scenario, whatever I chose to say would be immaterial; consider: can truth or lie be discernable to someone whose delusional mindstates are governed in the first instance by the shortcircuitry of their brainchemistry?