Trying to maintain friendships

[Seraphim]

What I am seeing here is anxiety. People with anxiety have problems with trying to control everything. 
 

I know because I had severe anxiety for decades and had controlling behaviours. It took me a long time to where I control the anxiety not the other way around. 

[boltnrun]

That's interesting. I have severe anxiety and while I definitely try to control my personal environment I've never tried to control the behavior of others and I don't feel I'm hypercritical of everyone around me. Sure, I do criticize my brother (on my journal) but I don't nitpick my friends over their life choices or who they get into relationships with and I don't get upset if family or friends don't give me praise or gratitude for things I choose to do for them, etc. I do realize mental disorders manifest differently for each individual. 

I personally see a lack of satisfaction with your own life, Alex, and it manifests as extreme criticism of everyone you encounter and as jealousy of people who have what you want for yourself. 

[rainbowsandroses]

48 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I personally see a lack of satisfaction with your own life,

Again only a trained medical professional can determine, but as an objective observer and responder, I actually see the opposite.  I see that she is extremely happy with her own life, her own choices and as such I see quite a bit of braggadocio in her posts and her false belief that the rest of the Universe should view her in the same superior way she views herself.

And when they don't, in HER mind clearly there is something wrong with them.  Virtually all her threads reflect this attitude.

I also think (rightly or wrongly) that this is why she doesn't read, react or respond to our posts.   It's dismissive and disrespectful IMO since those of us responding have taken time away from OUR own lives to try to help.

And at least for ME, it's difficult to find empathy when this happens (again MY perception of the situation).

It's more a personality disorder versus a mental illness IMO.  Although the two can sometimes overlap.  But again only a medical professional can determine after evaluation.

I also have anxiety, in fact I was diagnosed by a medical professional with GAD and Bipolar 2 (different from Bipolar 1 not as severe) many years ago which I manage effectively with yoga, pilates, exercise and eating healthy foods among other things (no meds) and even at my worst, I NEVER had such a superior or negative attitude towards anyone, including my friends, family, boss, ANYONE.

I think this thread should be locked.  I doubt she would care anyway.

Just my $.02.

 

[Batya33]

I don't think wanting others to live your life as you do means you are happy with your own life -it might have no connection at all.  I am very happy with certain of my choices like my exercise routine, certain professional choices, certain parenting choices -and, first I never try to impose them on anyone - because even if -even if -I was convinced one of my choices could make someone else very happy - I would not be happy with myself at all -including happy with how I was living my own life- for either coming across as judging by imposing or "strongly suggesting" they do what I do - or for giving myself a pass for "well I just care about him/her SOOO much that I had to tell him/her  to try what I do.

I think people who are happy with their choices with rare exception are quietly calm and confident about it and often recognize how individual it is -the choices and the happiness.  And are rarely defensive and often have humility and don't brag.

I think this all applies to Alex - perhaps -speculating! -her friends can sense the judgment vibe, her friends tire of the braggy comments.  Or the humble brag comments. Or the implied comparison comments.

I used to go to my neighbor's house downstairs -two really young kids- most often with my young kid but not always if he was at school etc and I'd walk in and simply say straight out.  Hi.  I'm here.  Go shower.  No big show of it -just "k.  go shower." 

It's -really freeing for a mom to have that 15-20 minutes or so to shower with no distractions. 

I went over to a woman I didn't know who had: lots of packages from shopping, one whining baby in the stroller and a toddler who did NOT want to leave the park and was very very loud.  The mom was off to the side clearly overwhelmed and clearly embarassed.  My child was playing and older.  She didn't know me.  I walked over and said to her quietly - so the toddler wouldn't hear "hey -if you need help with the packages I can keep them on the bench right here while you get the kids settled." 

I knew she wouldn't want a stranger near her children.  She declined and a couple of minutes later, finally leaving the park she stopped by and quietly thanked me.

Alex that's all it takes most often to be a human and show up as you are - open, genuine, blank slate sort of so the person knows you are there with friendship, support, neutrality at their choices or situation.  No air of superirority or judgment or statements to the effect of "Ohhhhh I've been there when I can't even shower/when I'm soo overwhelmed I know JUST how you feel!!!! I'm here and I'm going to [fill in the blank]."  If you show up without expecting a reward, with basic simplicity, the sort of invisible helping hand people will come to you with the same openness and feel safe with you.  Your friends don't feel safe with you.  One false move and they will be judged in some way.  While you gleefully hand them the homemade cookies you slaved over.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

9 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I don't think wanting others to live your life as you do means you are happy with your own life

You may be right, it's just my perception, that's all.

And if OP would make an effort and be courteous enough to acknowledge and respond to at least some of our posts with a open mind and without getting defensive, I am willing to even change my perception altogether.

 

[Seraphim]

52 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

That's interesting. I have severe anxiety and while I definitely try to control my personal environment I've never tried to control the behavior of others and I don't feel I'm hypercritical of everyone around me. Sure, I do criticize my brother (on my journal) but I don't nitpick my friends over their life choices or who they get into relationships with and I don't get upset if family or friends don't give me praise or gratitude for things I choose to do for them, etc. I do realize mental disorders manifest differently for each individual. 

I personally see a lack of satisfaction with your own life, Alex, and it manifests as extreme criticism of everyone you encounter and as jealousy of people who have what you want for yourself. 

I will say I didn’t try to control friends etc but family members,yes , to avoid the pain of anxiety. The proximity to your effect on my life was key.  

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

You may be right, it's just my perception, that's all.

And if OP would make an effort and be courteous enough to respond to at least some of our posts with a open mind and without getting defensive, I am willing to even change my perception altogether.

 

I have no interest in being right.  I didn't quote your post and for sure it inspired mine.  Both are true -I didn't quote because my sharing wasn't meant to be in conflict with your sharing or to debate or argue and I know you meant the same by referring to mine.

The OP most often does not choose to have an open mind either when she posts or apparently in the situations she describes.  We all have a level of bias, of perspective, we all bring our baggage and it depends on the extent, the extreme to which we choose to let it effect us and many can choose to notice the bias and firmly choose to put it the heck aside to show up for a friend. 

I recently made an extremely "what! no mom would do that!" choice (nothing remotely harmful to our son -maybe even a really positive thing for him!)- and it was interesting the attitudes - those who know me and wanted to be supportive responded based on me -not based on what a "good mom" would do - or asked questions -curious not furious - and those with stereotypical notions of Mom and Shoulds responded with the whole slippery slope stuff. 

As it turned out -wow -just what the doctor ordered for me and I'll know in the next day or so whether our son truly was more than fine -he seems so! If the OP had been my friend -I know most likely I'd have lied to her - if at all possible - because I'd have felt too vulnerable about telling her my choice and that I had done something "most moms" would not do.  So she would be a friend i had stricter boundaries with - and I bet her vibe and attitude erodes the closeness with her friends in similar ways.  She probably has no idea what really goes on with a number of her friends as the risk of sharing isn't worth the -um- vibe.

[rainbowsandroses]

29 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I have no interest in being right. 

I didn't suggest that Bat, I basically meant I agree with you.

I also agree it doesn't matter who's "wrong" or "right," it's a figure of speech, semantics.  Same when you (and others including myself) respond to a post saying "I agree," or "I disagree."  

Hope that clarifies.

[Cherylyn]

Having sat on both sides of the fence,  I can relate.  I'm a mother,  have friends,  had friends and I'm a friend so I qualify to be all of them. 

I remember being a young mother of little ones.  I know I'll catch a lot of flak regarding not maintaining friendships when I was a young,  frazzled,  frenetically busy mother of two little boys.  Sorry,  and no,  I couldn't do it all.  There were times when I went crazy (not in a bad way) with being completely engrossed with motherhood,  family priorities,  local relatives and in-laws plus doing it all when there were only so many hours in a day. 😵 

I plead guilty for not being as attentive to friends who often fell by the wayside.   I will add,  that I don't include social media,  texts,  emails,  messages and voicemails to be the same as in person friendships.  I'm more old school.  In person friendships are very important especially if you're local and don't reside unreasonably far apart from one another.

As a friend,  you need to learn to adapt.  Your friends who are mothers who are no longer young and carefree.  They have familial responsibilities now and friends no longer are the top of their list.  I'm sorry but it's the reality of the situation.  These mothers are extremely consumed with raising families.  You will only grasp this concept with full comprehension when you become a mother someday.  Until then,  you'll never understand completely.  🫢

I know it's not an excuse but this is how life plays out.  A mother is very busy catering to her family's needs first and foremost.  You're not even secondary.  Hence,  you're limited and relegated to birthday parties,  special occasions, perhaps holidays and events. 

Friendships evolve and I'm sorry to say, you've been reduced to an acquaintance level.  It's no one's fault.  Life happens. 

I've found what works best is to be able to relate to people who are similar to you whether it's occupation,  hobbies,  intellect,  interests,  sports,  childless in your case,  single,  etc.  You'll have more in common with people who share your similar lifestyle and stage in life.  People who are similar to you will have more time,  energy and brain space for you as well.  It's not always true about opposites attract.  To the contrary,  there is more camaraderie with those with shared values and whatever stage in life you're at. 

I will not be harsh when giving you my perspective.  I find your concerns to be very valid and I can definitely relate.  I've walked a mile in your shoes. 

Another piece of advice is to not be too focused on others.  Carve out your own life whatever it may be whether it's working hard,  taking care of your health,  fitness,  eating well,  immersing yourself into hobbies,  reading library books (for example), various endeavors or doing what you enjoy.  People are attracted to independent types or so I've noticed.  Be happy within your own skin.  Exude self confidence and strength.  When you do this,  you won't find the need to glom onto others.  They'll come to you while you won't even have to try to be well liked.  Nothing is more attractive than you oozing toughness,  😉self confidence and security.  Change your mindset and behavior.  You'll become your own best friend.  Everything else is gravy after that.  🙂 👍

[Alex39]

On 4/22/2024 at 11:44 AM, Seraphim said:

What I am seeing here is anxiety. People with anxiety have problems with trying to control everything. 
 

I know because I had severe anxiety for decades and had controlling behaviours. It took me a long time to where I control the anxiety not the other way around. 

I have severe anxiety. I have OCD. I see a therapist. 

I can also be a naive person who has been used and stomped on throughout my life, because of my overly sweet upbringing, and now that I'm older and wiser, I try to protect myself and be very logical and stand up for myself and what's right for me. No one ever cared what I wanted or thought, and I always went along with others ignoring my own self and needs. I am trying to not do this anymore. I know me, I know what works for me, and my life. 

I'm extremely respectful that my friend is a mother with a child. I treat her and her child really well. i travel to see her almost every time. But I don't have a child and I don't need to cater my life around them. My friend that was visiting from out of town doesn't work.  So she didn't have a job schedule to stick to. She always wants to hang out during weekdays, not accounting for that people work and she doesn't. My mom friend works at home part-time. She barely works during the week. I work over 50 hours a week. So I have to take care of me and my needs as a busy working woman, living alone, with no one to help cook, clean, do outdoor landscaping maintenance,  laundry. I do it all solo.  They have help, husband's, and family nearby and they barely work. My out of town friend was even saying she hires a lawn service. I dont have that luxury. I work and have no help. I do as much as I can with what I have. So yes, maybe I expect a little more concessions from them to help me. 

And I'm sad and hurting. I just want people to care again for me.  I've essentially lost all my friends in a matter of a few years. They say we are best friends, but I don't feel or see that anymore. 

[Wiseman2]

23 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

. I dont have that luxury. I work and have no help. I do as much as I can with what I have. So yes, maybe I expect a little more concessions from them to help me. 

And I'm sad and hurting. I just want people to care again for me.  

Try not to expect so much accommodations from your friends and try to respect their lives instead of expecting special treatment. Especially try to understand that they have their own lives and you've grown apart, so staying stuck in the past while they evolved is your issue not theirs.

Perhaps a referral to a physician for the severe anxiety and other issues would help with more complete treatment because talk therapy alone doesn't seem to alleviate your discomfort.

 

 

[MissCanuck]

1 hour ago, Alex39 said:

because of my overly sweet upbringing

Overly sweet? You have spoken on multiple occasions how difficult your mother has been on you, and how damaging it has been to your self-esteem. Unless you've been exaggerating in your threads, your upbringing was not that sweet. 

2 hours ago, Alex39 said:

I've essentially lost all my friends in a matter of a few years.

Again, the common denominator is you. You need to reflect on why people have distanced themselves from you. You are clearly missing some pieces of the puzzle if people don't want to be around you as much. 

[Seraphim]

So you put yourself first but are shocked when others do the same . Why? 

[Batya33]

For sure some people work less than others. Some full time parents who don't have a salaried job outsource lots - they hire sitters/nannies/have family who come over daily and give free child care. They spend $$$ on this or that activity which is not so much for enriching as to have some other adult supervise their child.  That's how they do work-life balance.  Some people without kids are satisfied working 35-40 hours a week during business hours only and hiring people to clean/maintain their homes and finding lots of ways to chill. 

Or they take classes or play pickleball or the like.  Others do busy work they claim they "have to do" for their kids or their boss or their spouse but it's actually an excuse not to put in the effort to socialize. 

So many permutations so we find our people who we have stuff in common with and hopefully also lifestyle/perspective on work-life balance.  I don't think people change that much when they have kids meaning if they worked hard before and it was sort of in their DNA they don't stop working hard they just aren't working in a job they're working with their child.  So that they might not be able to see you at the same times -or as much -or do the same social activities but if they were motivated before kids to have friends and spend time with friends they're still motivated it just looks different. Obviously there are exceptions -people change all the time - if how they were wasn't working for them they work on making a change. 

And for sure certain events can change your outlook on life dramatically for better or worse and that shift in outlook can mean what you focused on before that mattered -doesn't matter as much.  I think women who dump their friends because that was their "20s" and the "crazy single life" and now they're married and working on getting preggers and want "couple friends" and then "mom friends" probably -never really valued their friendships that much.  I saw a post by a woman on my moms FB group -thousands of members -she posted anonymously about how her dear friends promised to give support and be there for her when she went through a divorce (with kids) and all of a sudden -poof-she was some sort of pariah and potential husband-stealer.

But there's more to the story I bet just like there is more to your story -like - were these friends uber focused on "couple friends" and didn't value bonding/connection with all sorts of people -was she a difficult friend to begin with so it was more of an excuse? Did she talk too much about her ex or burden her friends too much with her new single mom needs? 

You think too much in black and white Alex -you're a fan of revisionist history so you can paint yourself a pretty picture of how hard you try- but you're painting yourself into a corner and getting in your own way IMHO.  You can change that. 

For example kudos to you for trying to accommodate your friend with a child and traveling to them but all your venomous judgment of her - I imagine that comes through in spades to her without you even knowing -most of the time -and likely to her child too -children have a spidey sense for that - could be why your offer to babysit was declined, could be why there's a distance now -you might think the kids "love" you but if mom feels negativity or feels judged it starts to bleed into her home and her child feels it keenly.

JMHO -I may be way off but that's always been my experience with young kids as a teacher/nanny/sitter/daycare worker, volunteer with kids -and mama. since around 1987

[Jaunty]

I question your use of the word "sweet."  You've described yourself as "sweet" numerous times and your posts depict you as anything but ...  and the household you talk about has no sweetness at all.   

I'm sorry if this is coming off as "mean" but I also don't see you knowing what you want and conducting yourself according to that.  You are extremely reactive to what other people are doing and your path in life and emotional responses seem to be exclusively informed by that.   I've read myriad posts of yours and when I try to think "what does Alex like," I get a dead end because it all boils down to what other people have or think; for example:

Alex likes to bake.  But that gets swallowed by your preoccupation with how much you "slaved" and whether somebody showed you appreciation for your baking.

Alex likes to decorate her home.  But then in the next breath we learn that you want other people to be "jealous" of what you have.

Do you experience joy or contentment in your life that's not based on other people? Just you, getting pleasure and a rush of good feelings because of an experience you are having? 

[Alex39]

6 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

Overly sweet? You have spoken on multiple occasions how difficult your mother has been on you, and how damaging it has been to your self-esteem. Unless you've been exaggerating in your threads, your upbringing was not that sweet. 

Again, the common denominator is you. You need to reflect on why people have distanced themselves from you. You are clearly missing some pieces of the puzzle if people don't want to be around you as much. 

It's not that they've distanced from me because of me. I genuinely chalk it up to they got married, were more focused on dating engagements, weddings, new husband's, pregnancy. And I didn't have that going for me. 

 

We used to gush in a group chat about dating and plans. Well, now they are both married and settled and I'm the only one in the group chat who is still gushing about a date or online dating. Because that's where I am in my life.  And they barely react or say a word, because they don't care. They got their guy, they aren't out dating. My one friend said to me one time- I'm so happy I met my husband and don't have to date anymore, it seems awful. 

I was like wow, thanks. 

As for my relationship with my friend and her child. I do treat them well. I work a second job where I am around a lot of children and am well liked. 

It's not so much I judge my mom friend. But she preaches all this Auntie stuff to me, I get all happy and excited. Then I barely see her child and she won't even let me babysit. I tell her how I love to be involved in her life, but I'm far from it. I've been the one trying. After a while when you are pulling another person up a hill with you, you get tired and let the rope go. How many times am I supposed to give, to travel, to put myself out and get nothing in return? But the attitude that I am Auntie and involved is there, but the action is not. Why sell me a false bill of goods?

There is an episode of Sex and the City. Carrie and her friends go to a friend's party. Her friend has children and has settled down, completely different than Carrie. Carrie is asked to take her shoes off at the door. So she does. Well someone steals her $400 shoes. Her friend apologizes and laughs it off. But to Carrie it wasn't funny or an oops.  

Days later Carrie calls her friend, and nicely insinuates that she replace her shoes that were stolen at her house. Her friend then shames her for foolishly purchasing expensive shoes and essentially living this frivolous single life and she must understand that those with kids and a family can't replace $400 shoes, because they have a family. 

Carrie then sits back and looks at all she has given to her friend. An expensive wedding gift, a bachelorette trip, a bridal shower gift, a housewarming gift, a baby shower gift, kids birthday gifts. And Carrie realizes that her friend hasn't had to dish out much to her at all, but continues to expect to be catered to by Carrie. And she sees inequity in the relationship. Carrie then says how if she never gets married or has kids, then her friends got off easy with her. And their friendship isn't equal. 

I really resonated with this episode because that's how I feel exactly. I've been giving for years, and I give because it's the right thing, but when is it my turn? And now that I'm knee deep in giving, will I get the same back? If I knew I wasn't going to get the same back then I'd be more cautious and stop giving a bit now. I've given so much, that yes, I expect occasionally to have my friend and her baby come to me and come around my work schedule. I don't think that's a lot to ask in the scheme of the money, time, and effort I've put out for them.  

Friendship is a give and take. That's just how I feel. 

In the end, Carrie calls her friend and says she's getting married and puts the shoes on her registry. But she wasn't getting married at all.  Her friend begrudgingly goes and replaces her shoes.

[Alex39]

3 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

I question your use of the word "sweet."  You've described yourself as "sweet" numerous times and your posts depict you as anything but ...  and the household you talk about has no sweetness at all.   

I'm sorry if this is coming off as "mean" but I also don't see you knowing what you want and conducting yourself according to that.  You are extremely reactive to what other people are doing and your path in life and emotional responses seem to be exclusively informed by that.   I've read myriad posts of yours and when I try to think "what does Alex like," I get a dead end because it all boils down to what other people have or think; for example:

Alex likes to bake.  But that gets swallowed by your preoccupation with how much you "slaved" and whether somebody showed you appreciation for your baking.

Alex likes to decorate her home.  But then in the next breath we learn that you want other people to be "jealous" of what you have.

Do you experience joy or contentment in your life that's not based on other people? Just you, getting pleasure and a rush of good feelings because of an experience you are having? 

A lot of people call me sweet out in the world and have made comments about how sweet I am. I have manners. I have class. The way I speak and hold myself is that. I am not raunchy- at least not in public. I was raised to be proper. To give to others. To do things the right way. To be perfect. I'm not perfect, but I try hard to be. 

[Seraphim]

And you resent the hell out of what you have been taught so it isn’t genuine. 

[itsallgrand]

39 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

A lot of people call me sweet out in the world and have made comments about how sweet I am. I have manners. I have class. The way I speak and hold myself is that. I am not raunchy- at least not in public. I was raised to be proper. To give to others. To do things the right way. To be perfect. I'm not perfect, but I try hard to be. 

You are describing "keeping sweet". Which is more about the appearance of being "nice", than being genuine in expressing your feelings. I grew up next to a pastor of a particular religious denomation where people emphasize this, especially for women. One of the daughters was my age, we were friends. And actually a lot of my friends growing up were raised this way. I'm very familiar! It's the plastered on smile and cookies at your doorstep, but those church ladies hate your guts and what you stand for. It's the seething anger underneath the facade. It's someone hiding who they are and then reacting extreme out of nowhere because they suppress so much.

Alex, you have to get past doing things for what you think is going to make someone else happy and think you are a good girl. You need to connect with yourself on a genuine level. Getting married, having kids, won't solve this. Then you will just be one of those martyr moms that doesn't get why her friends don't want to bend over for. Which you supposedly hate anyways??

[boltnrun]

You're still completely ignoring all of the excellent advice you've been given.  That's not "sweet".

Alex, what do you want?  Do you genuinely want advice?  Or do you want us to coddle you and tell you you're right and your friends are awful people?

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, Alex39 said:

A lot of people call me sweet out in the world and have made comments about how sweet I am. I have manners. I have class. The way I speak and hold myself is that. 

Alex on the off chance you read this, what you describe ^^ is a very superficial definition of "class."

How you portray yourself here in the many many threads you've created, your self-centeredness, entitlement, your belief that you are somehow "special" is NOT class.

It's the antithesis of class.

People with class don't whine that they're not getting back what they give.  They give because it gives them joy to give, they don’t give a rat's rear if it's not given back. 

In fact, in my world people with class give to others silently, they don't even talk about it!  Either through their actions or monetarily. 

People with class aren't jealous of friends who have what they don't, they're happy for them and if it's what they want, they introspect and look within to determine why they have not been able to achieve it. 

People with class have NO need or desire to even mention to anyone including an online forum that they have class.  That's a form of braggadocio and the opposite of class.

True class is simply a given, it's quiet.  

True class is about character and integrity NOT being "sweet" and having good "manners."  Lord.

You're mindset is completely off, I'm sorry. 

I think I mentioned this earlier but the help you need is beyond what any of us here can help you with imo.

You need a serious overhaul of how you view yourself, others and the world in general.

Not only is it superficial, it's quite toxic. 

And if you don't receive help from a qualified professional nothing is going to change and you'll be 50-60-70 years old in the same place you are now. 

Lonely and bitter.

Get help! 

 

 

 

[MissCanuck]

3 hours ago, Alex39 said:

But the attitude that I am Auntie and involved is there, but the action is not. Why sell me a false bill of goods?

Maybe, just maybe, your definition of "auntie" and her definition are not the same. You are taking this way too seriously and choosing to be offended over something you are not actually owed to begin with. She is also allowed to change her mind about how much she wants you involved in her kid's life. 

3 hours ago, Alex39 said:

I've been giving for years, and I give because it's the right thing, but when is it my turn? And now that I'm knee deep in giving, will I get the same back?

You complain about this constantly. When are you going to realize it's not going to change, and you need to find new friends if these ones make you so unhappy?

I have never seen someone on these board who loves to complain as much as you do. 

 

 

[Jaunty]

On 4/27/2024 at 5:36 AM, Alex39 said:

Carrie then says how if she never gets married or has kids, then her friends got off easy with her. And their friendship isn't equal. 

Then the character of Carrie is an A-hole.  I will have to look that up and watch it, because I never thought of that character as a bitter tally-keeping scrooge.  True friendship is not a give-to-get relationship.  

If someone is truly a user, then get them out of your life.  If you love and care for someone, you're not going to be thinking about how much they owe you.  

Do you actually have any people in your life that you love and care for?  

 

 

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, Jaunty said:

Then the character of Carrie is an A-hole.  I will have to look that up and watch it, because I never thought of that character as a bitter tally-keeping scrooge.  True friendship is not a give-to-get relationship.  

If someone is truly a user, then get them out of your life.  If you love and care for someone, you're not going to be thinking about how much they owe you.  

Do you actually have any people in your life that you love and care for?  

 

 

Watch the episode IMO -much more nuanced than you're assuming (and  funny!).Season 6, episode 9: “A Woman’s Right to Shoes”

I agree with you and reciprocity is not an issue in close friendship because there is underlying trust and  respect and no need for a score card.

[Kwothe28]

On 4/27/2024 at 2:36 PM, Alex39 said:

There is an episode of Sex and the City. Carrie and her friends go to a friend's party. Her friend has children and has settled down, completely different than Carrie. Carrie is asked to take her shoes off at the door. So she does. Well someone steals her $400 shoes. Her friend apologizes and laughs it off. But to Carrie it wasn't funny or an oops.  

Days later Carrie calls her friend, and nicely insinuates that she replace her shoes that were stolen at her house. Her friend then shames her for foolishly purchasing expensive shoes and essentially living this frivolous single life and she must understand that those with kids and a family can't replace $400 shoes, because they have a family. 

Carrie then sits back and looks at all she has given to her friend. An expensive wedding gift, a bachelorette trip, a bridal shower gift, a housewarming gift, a baby shower gift, kids birthday gifts. And Carrie realizes that her friend hasn't had to dish out much to her at all, but continues to expect to be catered to by Carrie. And she sees inequity in the relationship. Carrie then says how if she never gets married or has kids, then her friends got off easy with her. And their friendship isn't equal. 

 

The damage that show has done to modern dating and family should be studied at universities lol

You are not entitled to reciprocity. Just because you buy expensive gift to a friend doesnt mean they would buy it to you too. It would be nice if they do but you are not entitled to it. You are buying a gift to your friend because you want to buy them something nice. Not because they would buy something expensive to you too. Its not "investing into your gifts", its gifting something to your friends. At the end of the day its about thought, not about the gift.