Am I too needy ?

[Shycarrot]

2 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

I just think it's a bit weird that you have this resentment towards your friend because you didn't know anyone but she did. You said you moved away for some years and you lost touch with people. That's not her fault. I

I don't resent her for this at all ! And apart from her boyfriend and his friends, she does not have friends in this city either.

 

3 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

But it's not your friend's job or responsibility to make sure you're not lonely and take you out with her boyfriend or friends. As an adult you need to look after yourself. If you're looking for a job, you don't expect your friend to write your resume and Jon applications, right? You have to do that on your own.

I never said nor implied that.

When I knew she was lonely, I offered my help, it was an automatic behavior for me, so I just find it weird that she wouldn't reciprocate ? In her shoes, I know I would have been more thoughtful, boyfriend or not

 

5 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Her life has changed and she's living that life now. It's not reasonable that you're still expecting her to fit in with your expectations of that single, free bestie. This is what YOU want but she's not that anymore.

I know that as well. But to be fair, plenty of other women in a relationship nurture their friendships. I realized this when I met some groups of women hanging out together, on meet up, all coupled up. 

 

But at the end of the day, she's not giving me what I want. So I will continue to hang out with my new friends, but I really have that itch to tell her how I feel. 

I just don't really understand why she told me a few months earlier that she prioritized friendship. Like, how ? 

[Kwothe28]

37 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

I am pretty sure in her case, she does not feel like she is ditching me or like our friendship is ending at all. I am perfectly sure that if she ever breaks up with her guy (I hope not), she'll come back as if nothing happened. 

But again that is all part of the cycle. Lots of friends just come and go. Lots of them are only situational kind. Like work friends. If she has decided that she doesnt need you anymore because she has a boyfriend now, let it be. 

I was like you once. Felt very bad when I left my town for university. Lots of friends stayes home, you barely come home, have no time for them or them for you etc. Its hard. But through it I realized that true friends will be there no matter what. So I have friends from my town, university town, high school etc. That didnt break with distance, marriages, kids etc.

You just have to realize she is not a true friend. And act accordingly. There is no need for theatrics and speeches. 

[Tinydance]

39 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

I don't resent her for this at all ! And apart from her boyfriend and his friends, she does not have friends in this city either.

 

I never said nor implied that.

When I knew she was lonely, I offered my help, it was an automatic behavior for me, so I just find it weird that she wouldn't reciprocate ? In her shoes, I know I would have been more thoughtful, boyfriend or not

 

I know that as well. But to be fair, plenty of other women in a relationship nurture their friendships. I realized this when I met some groups of women hanging out together, on meet up, all coupled up. 

 

But at the end of the day, she's not giving me what I want. So I will continue to hang out with my new friends, but I really have that itch to tell her how I feel. 

I just don't really understand why she told me a few months earlier that she prioritized friendship. Like, how ? 

Well you said why is she asking you to invite you out with her friends when she didn't invite you with hers. And that you don't want to invite her because she didn't do it for you. As I said, you don't have an obligation to invite her. Personally I probably wouldn't invite her in the sense that I wouldn't text her and be like: "Hey I'm letting you know we're going out tonight and you should come." But if you were just talking about it in conversation and she asked: "Can I come?", I wouldn't be like: "No you can't " I mean, it's not necessary to get revenge or something.

Also what has your friendship with her been like? Do you mean that she would always text you a lot and catch up a lot until she found that boyfriend? I mean you said you moved away for a number of years. So I'm assuming you didn't see each other much during those years? 

Like, you've got expectations that because you moved back to that city and were lonely that she needs to be 100% constant bestie now. But when you needed to move away and you couldn't catch up, you weren't there either. People can actually drift away if they don't see each other for a number of years. I'm not saying you weren't there deliberately but it's just life circumstances.

And yes I'm sure there are women in those Meetup groups who really prioritize friendships. And that's why they're actually in the Meetup. They have free time and specifically want new friends so they are acting very keen and available. It's a bit different to someone who's preoccupied with a relationship, study, etc.

Your friend probably has drifted from you. People actually do drift and I'm not saying it's not sad or disappointing. But you're just really fixated on this friend and you're really trying to mould the situation to what YOU want. You need to stop trying to push it in the direction you want because your friend just doesn't want to go in that direction. Maybe she's an a-hole for it but this is where she's at. 

[Tinydance]

I also wanted to add that it's OK to have certain expectations of friends. After all friendship isn't a job so you're friends with people by choice. But if someone isn't meeting your expectations then you either need to accept them as is, or you end the friendship.

Like for example if someone never wants kids and they're single but their friend gets married and has kids. For example if they want to go out to parties or bars, likely that friend won't go with them. And likely that friend will talk about their kids and spouse a lot. So the person can either just end the friendship because that friend isn't suitable to them anymore, or they can accept that the friendship is limited. Like, they can still message each other but they won't go to a bar or club together. So they might decide to make other friends to go to the bar. But they will still speak to their friend and catch up for a coffee when they can.

[Andrina]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

No. Because I dont think its necessary when you can simply go your own way. Friends are not romantic relationships. You dont need to break up or try to mend something that is clearly no longer working. You both can go your own way. She with her boyfriend and you with your new friends. Lots of friends just dont hang anymore and thats it. There is no need to take it so personally. Again, lots of friends just go their own way, whether its because of outside circumstances or just grow apart in time. 

I agree with this. I do discuss issues with my husband to fix things because we said vows to one another and share a house, and it's of course a much different situation where we can't and won't just part ways because there's an ebb in the flow.

But when it comes to friendships, I've never once made complaints of what I wanted fixed, because if a friend stopped making effort, then their actions speak loud and clear enough for me. I can imagine the effect on me telling a friend how I feel ignored, used, want them to contact me more often and to reply to texts more quickly would make that friend want to avoid me even more than before. I just don't want to coerce someone, or guilt-trip them, or play on their heartstrings to convince them of their wrongs and to pay attention to me. If a friend doesn't willingly do this of their own accord, I let them fade away. 

It's never happened to me, but if a friend asked why I no longer reach out, then at that time, I'd be honest and say that I stopped because I like friendships where the effort is made equally. If a friend asked that, I'd then know they cared and perhaps then, they could admit to themselves they've dropped the ball and will step up to salvage the friendship.

Your simmering anger, even if not expressed, oozes from you even if your words are unsaid and might be the reason she no longer reaches out as she did in the past. Your excuses for reaching out first and putting in effort even when she doesn't are really about you, not her. You're hanging in there and hoping things will go back to being how they were in the early days. 

In your shoes, I'd no longer be the one initially reaching out, and would only be returning an equal effort. Expect this friendship is fading away and if she sets up an activity with you, be pleasantly surprised. Enjoy the moment as is. Try a different mindset that doesn't involve anger, because that's not working for you right now.

[boltnrun]

What would be the goal of telling her off? Or of refusing to allow her to come along with you and your new friends? It seems you felt (and still feel) pain, resentment and a sense of abandonment from her so you want her to feel those same things. But let's say you follow through with telling her off and refusing to invite her to come along. What would that accomplish? Do you think you would feel better afterward?

[rainbowsandroses]

@ShycarrotI just had a chance to catch up with this thread and would like to paste my response to another similar thread, perhaps it will help you reframe your mindset about this particular friendship and friendships in general.... or perhaps not.

Like you I take certain friendships (not all) very seriously, some friendships I place more value on than some romantic relationships!

For you, you've been friends for 17 years!  That's a significant friendship imo.  

Anyway below is my response on the other thread fwiw:

___

>>Hi Sam.  Yes I read the entire post and (1) it was coherent to me and (2) I have experienced similar among my "friend group" at the time and it hurt my feelings tremendously!  This was in high school and I recall crying a few times (I'm female) when my very best friend since third grade made friends with two other girls (who eventually became the friend group) and often chose to spend time with them instead of me.

She invited me along occasionally however I found the two girls shallow, petty and gossipy and I didn't really care for them.  I felt awkward and out of place around them so would often decline the invites after which I was deemed "standoffish" and "unfriendly."  

What happened was my good friend and I eventually distanced and I made a couple of new friends.   There were no harsh words spoken or any drama.  The distance happened gradually and naturally. 

I was incredibly sad for a very long time, we didn't actually talk or see each other for two years!  I missed her A LOT.

One day (after around two years) she reached out and we reconnected.  It was literally like NO time had passed!   We ended up traveling through Europe together for a year after we both graduated.

To this day we are still best friends!!   And this never happened again.  We both realize we have separate lives and there is sometimes a bit of distance which is OKAY.  Like I said, our friendship will always remain strong regardless.

My thoughts on friendships, even close ones where you've known each other for years, is that they sometimes go through changes and even temporary estrangements.  That doesn't mean you are no longer friends, that friendship will always be there, you're simply in a different stage of life or one or both have made new friends and as a result have distanced.

BUT if it's a true close friendship, you will always find your way back eventually.

Yes it IS incredibly sad and hurtful, but you make it through and someday (hopefully it won't be TWO years as in my case), you will find your back to each other.

I guess what I am trying to say is that your feelings about this are 100% valid imo.  Friendships can be hard and often quite hurtful.  Not something one can easily just let roll off or become more flexible about.   I mean we try to be but emotions don't always cooperate the way we want them to.  But we make it through.<<

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

I know plenty of people in a relationship who still make time for their friends.

Obviously.  I do.  My input was far more nuanced.  Do you find that you give to get? Mostly? Also since you expressed such concern up front about her bf -even if she had as well -you also did -maybe she's reluctant to include you in her current life.  

I would not like the two week or 10 day response time -she is definitely distancing herself.  I'm sorry.

[Shycarrot]

First I want to say thank you to all of you. I want to clarify that, as surprising as this may seem, this issue does not take a lot of my mental space ! 

I generally reframe my thoughts to something that makes me happier : right now, I get a lot of free time to invest in my new hobbies, I meet new people through interesting activities, I discover new places to party in my hometown etc ...  When I look at it from an objective perspective, it's a time of growth and self-discovery ✨

I have even been grateful at times because if she didn't drift away, I would not have had this !! 

But sometimes, even if it's more rare than before, there are setbacks where I think of this friend and I remember how different things used to be and it stings (though less intensely).

I wish things were more linear, but no. I am not completely sure, but it's normal for emotions to fluctuate, isn't it ? 

I just got back from a first date, and that helped me to clear my head : it's definitely not a good idea to talk to her about this ! Nothing good can come out of this, thank you for advice. 

 

Having said that, I don't understand the comments saying that I have an unhealthy (anxious) attachment to her ?

I don't expect things to be like before, I know she's busy with her boyfriend. But like I said, it's gotten to the point where she barely makes any efforts and is just generally unthoughtful. For instance, I have my dissertation defense in June. My gut tells me that she will bail, probably because of money (it's 3 driving hours away). But it's more about priorities because she traveled a fair amount of time with him between February and March and I have been working on my thesis for almost a year.

So there must be a world of difference between being constantly in contact with your friends (which I don't want) and the way she's treating me. 

Surely, that distance would temporarily hurt even the most securely-attached person, right ?

4 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Also what has your friendship with her been like? Do you mean that she would always text you a lot and catch up a lot until she found that boyfriend? I mean you said you moved away for a number of years. So I'm assuming you didn't see each other much during those years? 

Like, you've got expectations that because you moved back to that city and were lonely that she needs to be 100% constant bestie now

Yes, I was away for 4 months straight last year, and for 6 months straight the year before. 

I actually had the chance to come back to my home town about once every 1-2 months during these months away.  We saw each other one or two times when I came back. And the rest of the time, I was generally present.

I had a look at our old texts before and they were much more frequent and above all, she seemed more caring I would say. When I talked to her about whatever issue I had, she would reply kindly. Now, it's more like "good luck with X" and then ... no reply for 6 weeks 😂

But at the time, she had no boyfriend (only a situation ship) and she had no friends in the city. The more I think about it the more I wonder if she didn't just behave that way because she was lonely ?

4 hours ago, Tinydance said:

They have free time and specifically want new friends so they are acting very keen and available. It's a bit different to someone who's preoccupied with a relationship, study, etc.

I think I overstated the importance of her studies : she didn't study after her first exam session and actually had plenty of free time for a good chunk of her current semester. It's more about priorities, but either way, not my business.

I actually have way less free time than her. 

4 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Your friend probably has drifted from you. People actually do drift and I'm not saying it's not sad or disappointing. But you're just really fixated on this friend and you're really trying to mould the situation to what YOU want. You need to stop trying to push it in the direction you want because your friend just doesn't want to go in that direction. Maybe she's an a-hole for it but this is where she's at. 

I don't think she's an a-hole. 

I see, would you also advise that I stop contacting her ? (I usually text her once a month, twice sometimes). 

3 hours ago, Andrina said:

But when it comes to friendships, I've never once made complaints of what I wanted fixed, because if a friend stopped making effort, then their actions speak loud and clear enough for me.

Thank you for this. For some reason, it feels liberating to read this. 

You're right, I won't talk to her about this at all. 

3 hours ago, Andrina said:

In your shoes, I'd no longer be the one initially reaching out, and would only be returning an equal effort. Expect this friendship is fading away and if she sets up an activity with you, be pleasantly surprised. Enjoy the moment as is. Try a different mindset that doesn't involve anger, because that's not working for you right now

Thank you, I will promptly do this 🙂 

3 hours ago, Andrina said:

Your simmering anger, even if not expressed, oozes from you even if your words are unsaid and might be the reason she no longer reaches out as she did in the past. Your excuses for reaching out first and putting in effort even when she doesn't are really about you, not her. You're hanging in there and hoping things will go back to being how they were in the early days. 

She no longer reaches out because she has others things on her mind, but I can assure you that it has nothing to do with the frustration/anger, that I feel once a month at most. Like I said, I am generally not bothered by this, and I don't harass her with texts, not at all. 

But you are right in the sense that I have to let go and accept the new terms of our "friendship" 

[Batya33]

Had she promised to attend your dissertation defense? Were there specific plans made? That seems like a sizeable commitment.  Also you have no idea about her daily life now - maybe she helps her boyfriend with his family responsibilities -he may have elderly parents for example.  You don't know.  Once you go down path of "oh not so busy" know that that is not healthy.  Yes if she told you "wow I have toooo much time on my hands I'm so bored I sit on the couch all day waiting for my man to come home" -fine - but otherwise -stop judging.  It's like the old sterotypical question to a SAHM "what do you DO all day??" Or to teachers "but you get summers off!!"

She is fading away yes. I'm sorry and you don't need to dwell on the cringey part but you also don't need to pretend it's not cringey -there's a balance there.

I'm glad you're not going to tell her how you're feeling.  I'm glad you're dating and doing meetups.

[Wiseman2]

22 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

 I just got back from a first date, and that helped me to clear my head : it's definitely not a good idea to talk to her about this ! Nothing good can come out of this, thank you for advice. 

That's great. Continue to build your social life, dating adventures and hobbies, interests and activities. This helps you fill thie voids that caused over dependence on her and jealousy about her BF and life.

. In fact because you criticized her BF with your "concerns", is most likely the reason she distanced herself. That's turned out to be a good thing for you instead of being over enmeshed. 

[Shycarrot]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@ShycarrotI just had a chance to catch up with this thread and would like to paste my response to another similar thread, perhaps it will help you reframe your mindset about this particular friendship and friendships in general.... or perhaps not.

Like you I take certain friendships (not all) very seriously, some friendships I place more value on than some romantic relationships!

For you, you've been friends for 17 years!  That's a significant friendship imo.  

Anyway below is my response on the other thread fwiw:

___

>>Hi Sam.  Yes I read the entire post and (1) it was coherent to me and (2) I have experienced similar among my "friend group" at the time and it hurt my feelings tremendously!  This was in high school and I recall crying a few times (I'm female) when my very best friend since third grade made friends with two other girls (who eventually became the friend group) and often chose to spend time with them instead of me.

She invited me along occasionally however I found the two girls shallow, petty and gossipy and I didn't really care for them.  I felt awkward and out of place around them so would often decline the invites after which I was deemed "standoffish" and "unfriendly."  

What happened was my good friend and I eventually distanced and I made a couple of new friends.   There were no harsh words spoken or any drama.  The distance happened gradually and naturally. 

I was incredibly sad for a very long time, we didn't actually talk or see each other for two years!  I missed her A LOT.

One day (after around two years) she reached out and we reconnected.  It was literally like NO time had passed!   We ended up traveling through Europe together for a year after we both graduated.

To this day we are still best friends!!   And this never happened again.  We both realize we have separate lives and there is sometimes a bit of distance which is OKAY.  Like I said, our friendship will always remain strong regardless.

My thoughts on friendships, even close ones where you've known each other for years, is that they sometimes go through changes and even temporary estrangements.  That doesn't mean you are no longer friends, that friendship will always be there, you're simply in a different stage of life or one or both have made new friends and as a result have distanced.

BUT if it's a true close friendship, you will always find your way back eventually.

Yes it IS incredibly sad and hurtful, but you make it through and someday (hopefully it won't be TWO years as in my case), you will find your back to each other.

I guess what I am trying to say is that your feelings about this are 100% valid imo.  Friendships can be hard and often quite hurtful.  Not something one can easily just let roll off or become more flexible about.   I mean we try to be but emotions don't always cooperate the way we want them to.  But we make it through.<<

It's such an inspirational post, thank you so much !! 

Maybe it's silly and inaccurate but I have come to think of friendships and intimate relationships in general, as multilayered. 

I would not say those are objective !!! I find that it describe my friendships pretty well.

The deepest one is built with trust and time, it's tied with the "esteem" you have of the person. It's the most difficult to tackle, unless something really serious happens like a betrayal, huge mistake etc ...

The shallow one is fed by shared moments/experiences, inside jokes ... It deteriorates quickly but can be rebuilt almost as fast. It's a sort of complicity/spontaneity that I only have with people I interact with the most. 

When it's not there because of circumstances, I am guarded, even if the deep layer is here. It takes some time to grow back.

For instance, when I went abroad with my other long time friend that I had not seen in a long time, at first, there was some kind of distance : we had not seen each other for 6 months (she was traveling) and in the meantime, we had experienced so much. But within a few hours/days, the "shallow layer" was back. 

But I don't know, maybe it's just me. 

With the other friend, there's only a deep layer. 

I am actually anxious before I see her, I make a list of what I want to share because I don't know when I will see her again, there's a lot of things that I don't tell her because things are just different now. There's no emotional intimacy, and it takes me a while to warm up again

[Batya33]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

That's great. Continue to build your social life, dating adventures and hobbies, interests and activities. This helps you fill thie voids that caused over dependence on her and jealousy about her BF and life.

. In fact because you criticized her BF with your "concerns", is most likely the reason she distanced herself. That's turned out to be a good thing for you instead of being over enmeshed. 

I thought the same and also mentioned above. I had a good friend. She wanted me to meet her then newish boyfriend. As a double date with my husband. But I couldn’t manage that. Not within my comfort level. Our son was 2. We didn’t do sitters and we were living in summer housing. I suggested we meet at the restaurant down the block which was lovely and husband and I could take turns. Then they’d come to our apartment for a quiet dessert (son would br sleeping ). She said no. She never asked me to meet him again. It’s a simple matter of both of us now having different lifestyles. She was trying to impress her bf with her smart friends especially my husband. She doesn’t have kids. She probably found it ridiculous that we wouldn’t get a sitter. I didn’t understand why she couldn’t accommodate. So we grew apart. Sad but it happens when lifestyle changes.
 

Some “nurture “ the friendship and do what it takes and others have a more narrow vision of what if should look like. I think you fall more into the latter category. I mostly gravitate towards non “mom friends “ but it means more logistical difficulties scheduling.
 

I don’t think you were being nurturing when you warned her about her boyfriend and it’s not nurturing to expect her to introduce you to her new boyfriend’s friends. It’s more of a keeping score self absorbed thing. 
 

yes the silver lining is you’re being much more proactive about meeting people. 

[catfeeder]

On 5/16/2024 at 7:39 AM, Shycarrot said:

.... my fears were quite groundless  : being single at any age is not a fatality.

Yes! So happy you learned this.

Quote

... I had to make these efforts after she downgraded our friendship. 

And now she wants to come and meet them like it's easy 🙄

I don't think she has ill intention, but personally, I feel used... 

That's a fair observation. She's had no time or concern for you, not even to text, and now she wants to piggy back off your efforts to seek 'other,' ready-made friends? Skip that. You're perfectly justified in how you feel.

Quote

...I intend to tell her that I felt quite lonely this past year and that I had to make a special effort to socialize, that I am happy that I finally found "my people" and that I want to keep it that way, just like she has "her people" (her boyfriend and his friends). 

At the same time, I am worried that this will cause a rift in our friendship 😕 And I wonder if my behavior is vindictive ? 

No need to tell her this. You've already let her know that you've felt neglected, and what was her response? She continued to neglect you. So there she is, and you've reconciled that.

You don't 'owe' her an answer on this. If fact, as we've discussed before, you don't 'owe' anyone ANY answers to ANY question you don't want to address. You can either just change the subject, or you can operate as though you missed it, or you can say, "I'll think about this, and maybe we'll discuss it another time or not, but I'm just not comfortable with it right now."

If she calls or texts asking to meet you out, you can either do what she does...ignore the message unless and until you want to respond--out of the blue, completely changing the subject by raising something else...OR, you can respond in a timely way, and just say, "It's not good for me right now. You can let me know when you'd like to catch up again over lunch."

You're justified in handling this however you want. I just don't see a point in trying to educate her about your decision to stay compartmentalized if that makes you nervous, because she's already demonstrated that hurting your feelings is unimportant to her--so she doesn't deserve your nervousness. And there's no reason to burn bridges with her when you can just 'manage' her as a lesser priority in the same way that she's done with you.

That's not vindictive, it's just priority management. Head high, you're doing wonderfully! 

[Shycarrot]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I don’t think you were being nurturing when you warned her about her boyfriend and it’s not nurturing to expect her to introduce you to her new boyfriend’s friends. It’s more of a keeping score self absorbed thing. 

I don't understand why you saying this sentence out of context, she was the one asking me if I found her relationship weird. I just told her to be cautious in the beginning, especially because I know (and her too) her tendency to fall in love quickly.

 

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

In fact because you criticized her BF with your "concerns", is most likely the reason she distanced herself. That's turned out to be a good thing for you instead of being over enmeshed. 

Not at all. I said this in the beginning but when we saw each other in march or February, she told me some things that she knew I would find problematic. But she still did; 

 

To sum it up, when they met he told my friend that that none of his relationships ended badly. She later found out from her boyfriend's friend that the only 2 exes who live in town actually hate him. 

Apparently, the first one was a trans women that he dated to assess if he was "gay". He dumped her saying he preferred sleeping with women (yes ... that's awful). 

Last December, this ex begged him to give her back one of the paintings she gave him during their relationship. (She's a painter)

He pettily refused and my friend had to convince him to do so, because she empathized with her. 

His second ex was "crazy" according to him. This relationship only lasted 3 months and apparently, there was some emotional and physical abuse (It's the only thing I know). 

Besides, his friends make racist and sexist jokes. She had to tell him that it was not okay for him to "realize" it.

Finally, he does not defend her when one of his roommates makes fun of her (apparently he belittles her, he loves to make fun of her laugh ...) . When she shared this with his bf, his reply was "well ... maybe he likes you". But then, he talked to his roommate saying "you know ... my gf is pretty sensitive, it's hard to handle sometimes" ... 

 

So yeah ... In my book, there are some orange and red flags in here (especially the treatment of his first ex).

Do not worry, I didn't make any remark about this, I only nodded when she told me this and I made sure that nothing in my facial expression would let her know how outraged I was. 

 

But my point is : I don't think she got offended that I told her to be cautious in the beginning. Otherwise, she would not have shared these massive red/orange flags with me.

[catfeeder]

18 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

On 5/16/2024 at 10:12 AM, boltnrun said:

Why not just direct her to the link to the Meetup groups? That way she can attend if she wants but it's not directly joining up with you and your friends. 

Thank you, I didn't think about this but yes, I will make this suggestion 

I wouldn't do this. It will prompt her want to pair up, and this will have you regularly addressing why you don't want to do that.

Skip all of this. Don't bring it up, and if she does, you can tell her you're still exploring on your own and in your own way. Being spontaneous and solo when you go out has been working for you, but you'll let her know if you come across anything you'd like to do with a friend.

[catfeeder]

10 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

But my point is : I don't think she got offended that I told her to be cautious in the beginning. Otherwise, she would not have shared these massive red/orange flags with me.

Yes, and I'm really getting tired of seeing this get raised over-and-over again, like it's the one sentence in history that won't go away.

There is nothing 'wrong' with cautioning a friend to be careful when they're first dating someone IF they've raise their OWN concerns. It's been said to every one of us by family and friends IF we've invited such comments by outlining our own pros and cons about a new person.

You are months down the road from that One. Singular. Moment. and there's nothing crucial about it beyond your friend going down her own road and diverging paths from the one you shared. And while that may have hurt for a time, you've since grown by leaps and bounds in your own right to mitigate that issue.

You didn't 'bad mouth' her boyfriend, and you haven't since. I hope you'll feel free to dismiss any such characterizations instead of feeling a need to keep defending yourself against that premise. You've been doing beautifully, and I'm so proud FOR you.

 

[Wiseman2]

22 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

 : I don't think she got offended that I told her to be cautious in the beginning. Otherwise, she would not have shared these massive red/orange flags with me.

She "shared" because she thought you were a friend she could confide in, not because you were outraged. You were judgemental even if you played pokerface. Anyone can sense that because you didn't stay in your own lane. . 

[catfeeder]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

She "shared" because she thought you were a friend she could confide in, not because you were outraged. You were judgemental even if you played pokerface. Anyone can sense that because you didn't stay in your own lane. . 

Talk about judgmental and staying in your own lane? None of us were there, and none of us have better insight into this friend's mind or conversation than the OP, who is smart and intuitive, and who certainly doesn't deserve to be bullied here.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

Yes, and I'm really getting tired of seeing this get raised over-and-over again, like it's the one sentence in history that won't go away.

There is nothing 'wrong' with cautioning a friend to be careful when they're first dating someone IF they've raise their OWN concerns. It's been said to every one of us by family and friends IF we've invited such comments by outlining our own pros and cons about a new person.

You are months down the road from that One. Singular. Moment. and there's nothing crucial about it beyond your friend going down her own road and diverging paths from the one you shared. And while that may have hurt for a time, you've since grown by leaps and bounds in your own right to mitigate that issue.

You didn't 'bad mouth' her boyfriend, and you haven't since. I hope you'll feel free to dismiss any such characterizations instead of feeling a need to keep defending yourself against that premise. You've been doing beautifully, and I'm so proud FOR you.

^^Absolutely!  Every last word.

@ShycarrotI agree with what you posted about valuing every friendship differently.  Some friends I am closer with than others, some friendships are more for fun and for sharing activities, some friendships we share our most deepest, private thoughts and feelings; the friendship you are posting about is again a 17 YEAR friendship.   It's experiencing a temporary shift and yes that is hurtful!  Which may show itself through anger at times (within yourself) but it stems from HURT.

I gather it was quite close, like a sister?  That is how I feel about the friend I spoke about since the third grade, so that's 20+ years.

I don't think she's "abandoning" you or "fading away" or "offended" or "annoyed" she's in a different "place" from you right now and that is OKAY.  Like I said, close friendships can take many different paths depending on what's happening in each of our lives.  It's best to try to understand that and not take it personally.  

A 17 year friendship is not going to disappear because one or both got a boyfriend.  There may be distance, but like I said, the friendship is still there.  It's just in a different place at the moment.

If they ever break up, she will need you and if this were me, I would be there for her like a true friend would be.  Try to not be resentful that she was in a different place and didn't tend to the friendship perhaps how you would have, but that doesn't mean she values it any less.

Please know nothing you feel, nothing you have done is anything you should feel shame for and be negatively judged for, you're human, you have emotions and imo you are managing those emotions quite well under the circumstances, within yourself.  💛

 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

 who certainly doesn't deserve to be bullied here.

No one is bullying except you. My advice is sound and supportive of her choices. Follow your own advice as far as bullying so many on here so often. 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Yes, and I'm really getting tired of seeing this get raised over-and-over again, like it's the one sentence in history that won't go away.

There is nothing 'wrong' with cautioning a friend to be careful when they're first dating someone IF they've raise their OWN concerns. It's been said to every one of us by family and friends IF we've invited such comments by outlining our own pros and cons about a new person.

You are months down the road from that One. Singular. Moment. and there's nothing crucial about it beyond your friend going down her own road and diverging paths from the one you shared. And while that may have hurt for a time, you've since grown by leaps and bounds in your own right to mitigate that issue.

You didn't 'bad mouth' her boyfriend, and you haven't since. I hope you'll feel free to dismiss any such characterizations instead of feeling a need to keep defending yourself against that premise. You've been doing beautifully, and I'm so proud FOR you.

 

My sense of this was as she'd said a number of times she has a negative bias about relationships -perhaps the friend knows this already.  You're right I wasn't there -it came across to me as negative/heavy handed.

[rainbowsandroses]

What I read is that @Shycarrothad some negative 'thoughts' about the boyfriend but she kept those thoughts to herself.  She did not express them to her friend.  She specifically wrote "I thought to myself....."

She has clarified several times throughout the thread that the ONLY thing she actually said to her friend after her friend specifically asked was to "be cautious."  That's it.

I just read this entire thread again and confirmed this to be true.  "Be cautious."  That's it.

It's unclear why some are criticizing her for this.  I mean is that not what what we ALL do on this forum every single day?  Advise anonymous posters to be careful, be cautious?  At the very least!

Often times the advice is to flat out LEAVE, their boyfriend/girlfriend is toxic, a hot mess,  etc etc...   Here @shy did none of that.  After being asked, again all she said was "be cautious."

So we can advise anonymous posters to be cautious but not our own friends whom we've known for YEARS and whom we care about?

I truly do not understand this.

 

 

[kamurj]

Topic has run its course, closed.