What to do when fiancee spends more time with mother-in-law

[Sweet Sue]

My fiancee 'Joe' is a widower. 

Just to give you some background -my fiancee, 'Joe' lost his wife ten years ago. He two grown sons. He is semi-retired and works a part time job.  He is very close to his mother-in-law and helps her out any way he can. 'Carol'- the mother-in-law has a daughter and son-in-law and four adult grandchildren.

Over the course of our relationship, I have noticed that Joe and his mother-in-law are extremely close. She is 85 years old and has some health issues. She is legally blind and lives alone. She cannot drive and depends on the graciousness of family or friends to help her. 

Whenever she needs any kind of help, she will reach out to Joe before she calls her own daughter.  Joe lives just 5 minutes from her home. Every Sunday, he takes her to Sunday School, then church and out to lunch. This is a routine that started years ago. Since we began our relationship, I have made requests for him to attend church services with me - not every Sunday, but occasionally. He apologizes and tells me that he has promised 'Carol' that he will take her to church and then somewhere out to lunch. When she is unable to attend her services, then he will accompany me. 

Currently, we are making plans to move out of our area to another city, approximately 90 miles away. During a recent discussion about where to live he brought up 'Carol' and stated, " Carol is getting older and will be needing more of my help, so I can't be too far away." 

Keep in mind, 'Carol has a daughter and friends who have offered to help her but she tells Joe that she doesn't want to be an imposition on her friends -and as far as asking help from her daughter - she is not a caregiver and they don't have a close relationship. 

I have sensed some frustration in his voice when he wants to get out of town to go hiking or to attend church with me. He told me once, "I try to make plans and she asks me to take her to church, then lunch. She knows that her friends have offered to take her, but she says she doesn't want to impose on them. But she doesn't mind imposing on me." 

Joe is a kind and generous soul and has a big heart. He loves helping people and helped me out when I was caring for my elderly father. I love that about him. 

I don't know if I should just back off or am I just being selfish.

Also, am I being selfish when Joe has been bringing his laundry for me to wash and dry for the last 6 weeks because he's been - using his words "too busy helping 'Carol' with her with her needs". 

Joe's dryer broke down in early October. The parts are still scattered all over his kitchen floor. He told me one day in late October that 'Carol'  has been doing all his laundry until he can find the time to fix the dryer. I told him that I would be happy to pitch in and help as well. Since then, he has been bringing his laundry twice a week for me to was and dry. 

Today, when I inquired about the status of the dryer, he seemed a bit annoyed that I would raise the issue and stated to me once again, that taking care of 'Carol' takes up a lot of his time. 

He thanked me profusely for helping him out and grateful for all I have done. 

His comment left me wondering if I was out of line.

But, am I helping or is he taking advantage of the situation? 

[Andrina]

Yeah, sometimes there are people-pleasing people who won't say no, even if his/her own life is negatively impacted.

How is he pleasant to be around if he is regularly expressing irritation that he can't make plans for his own life because he's like an indentured servant to someone else? And when you can't ask him about a broken dryer after 6 weeks of doing his laundry without him getting snippy. You did offer, but a person who cared about not imposing too much wouldn't let this go on for such a lengthy time.

If he can't even afford to buy a new or used dryer, how will he afford a 180 mile trip roundtrip each Sunday to take Carol to church? 

If she had nobody else, I'd consider it like my fiancee doing volunteer work for someone needy, or doing something nice for a family member. But since her friends have offered to bring her to church, it would've been reasonable for him to lessen his involvement to once a month or 4 times a year, as examples.

Why are you two moving 90 miles away and are you buying property together? Do you know what his plans are for helping Carol when you're living farther away from her? I wouldn't assume anything and make that big move unless knowing this important info first.

Probably for the clothes, I'd say: I didn't know it'd take this long to get the dryer fixed. Maybe you should have Carol resume doing it since you do so much for her.

He was already in this routine when you arrived into his life. You can speak up but if nothing changes, decide if being regularly frustrated is worth being in a relationship with him.

[Wiseman2]

43 minutes ago, Sweet Sue said:

we are making plans to move out of our area to another city, approximately 90 miles away. During a recent discussion about where to live he brought up 'Carol' and stated, " Carol is getting older and will be needing more of my help, so I can't be too far away." he has been bringing his laundry twice a week for me to was and dry. 

Why are you two moving? Are either or both of you selling your homes? What's 90 min away and whose idea is it move there? Unfortunately he seems reluctant to move and leave his sons and family behind.

As far as his laundry, just stop doing it. He can do it at a laundromat or a friend or family's house. Certainly he can afford $5 a load for dryer? It's unclear why you're doing this or care when his dryer is fixed since there are many other options for him.

It seems like he's using the "Carol" excuse to avoid a lot of things. 

[Batya33]

I think you are helping him too much so he can help Carol. I’ve done volunteer work for years including when my son was young.  I didn’t ask my husband to do tons of extras so I could attend to my volunteer responsibilities. With the exception of volunteering for our son’s school. Then it’s for the family. I scheduled my work so it would be when our son was in school or later on when my husband was home anyway. This is the same. He’s burdening you with the extra work he can’t do because he’s expending his time and energy on Carol. It’s not your job or responsibility.
 

Also make if very clear you’re not ok with him driving to her with any regularity once you’re 90 miles away. 

are you buying property with him before you’re married ? And if so why ? When is the wedding?

[Sweet Sue]

The wedding will probably be this Spring.

'Carol' just had major surgery last week. She had a total knee replacement. Just yesterday, he helped her move from the hospital to the rehab center. Once she's home in three weeks, she has already asked him to take her to her physical therapy sessions. Then, she is planning to have the other knee replaced sometime in the Spring. 

No, we are not buying property together before getting married. We will both be selling our homes, then we plan to buy another home approx. 90 miles away. We both narrowed down the town that we would like to live in. We selected this town because He's 90 miles from his sons and mother-in-law and I will be just over 100 miles from my grandchildren. 

With 'Carol' in rehab away from home, she will not be able to help him wash his clothes or dry them. Initially I thought that I might be helping him out for a week or so - with the laundry. And now, it's been 6 weeks. 'How long does it take to find out why the dryer isn't heating, then fix the problem?" 

I think he likes someone having to do his laundry- it's a task he does not like doing. Also, there's a chance he might have to buy a new dryer and he doesn't want to spend the money when we will be getting married and he'll be moving in with me when that happens, probably in Feb or March 2024.

I see 'Carol' as the mother of his deceased late wife. Joe sees 'Carol' as the grandmother of his children. I think it's sweet that he lends a sympathetic ear or a helping hand when she needs the help. But I really think 'Carol' takes advantage of him and he feels obligated to help her. I think he enjoys helping her, too. Perhaps there's an incentive to help her- that I have not been made aware of. 

When is helping too much? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

I'd have him send his laundry out.  I did that for years.  I get she's grandma but yes this is too much  -she can hire an aide or driver.

[Andrina]

2 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

We selected this town because He's 90 miles from his sons and mother-in-law and I will be just over 100 miles from my grandchildren. 

What does this mean? Why are you moving? As you can see, elderly people need help so why is he moving away from grown sons who will one day be able to help with him and grandchildren who might be able to help you out?

[Cherylyn]

You'll have to share your fiance with Carol until she dies.  This arrangement will not change when you're married to him. 

As for his laundry,  he should be responsible for his own dirty clothes.  Have him launder his clothes at a laundromat. 

No,  you're not selfish.  He is because he doesn't consider your feelings.  Apparently,  you don't matter that much to him.  🙄 😒

I'm not you but if it were me,  I wouldn't marry him.  This problem will not go away.  Therefore,  either put up and shut up (tolerate) or don't marry him.  He will not change for you and neither will Carol. 

[catfeeder]

I'm sorry to say, this man will never move 90 miles away from Carol and the rest of his family.

He's showing you exactly what he's been locked into since long before his wife died, and he's not going to unlock it--ever--regardless of how frustrated he may sound about it at times.

You'll need to consider whether you want to marry into this package exactly as it stands now until Carol passes away, because you are not going to change it.

 

[Kwothe28]

I really dont see why you arent included in "church and lunch". Its not like that he needs to attend those either with her or with you. It would also maybe bridged the gap between you and his ex-MIL. But he seem to be decided to keep you two in a separate world. 

Anyway, with that and his family not really be accepting, I am sorry, but I would think about buying property and marrry somebody like that. Its just a pretty big issue and he isnt willing to work on it. 

[smackie9]

You two really need to learn to communicate better. Start with going to pre-marital counselling together with your pastor. It will be a safe place to bring up issues and your fiance won't have the opportunity to blow you off with some excuse.

[catfeeder]

4 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

I really dont see why you arent included in "church and lunch". Its not like that he needs to attend those either with her or with you. It would also maybe bridged the gap between you and his ex-MIL. But he seem to be decided to keep you two in a separate world. 

Anyway, with that and his family not really be accepting, I am sorry, but I would think about buying property and marrry somebody like that. Its just a pretty big issue and he isnt willing to work on it. 

Oh, dear. That's right. I forgot about this man's compartmentalization of you from his family. Was this MIL the woman who accepted the news of your engagement gracefully? If so, why has your fiancé made a point of tending to her Sundays without you? I would think he'd want to integrate the two of you as a model for the rest of his family rather than keep you locked out of his participation with her and them.

I agree with @Wiseman2 that he's been using this 'Carol' excuse rather conveniently to keep you away from whatever he's been doing, and with whom, within his family. I'm really sorry to say, this man will never even attempt to heal the divide. He's going to coast along with it and continue training you like a puppy dog to accept his curt responses as, "No! Now, go lay down."

We can all agree with you on every complaint you have about this man's behavior, but it won't buy you a thing. If you want to accept this treatment as the price you're willing to pay for being allowed to orbit this man, then this is what it looks like, and it's not going to change. However, I would think carefully about combining any financial investments with this man. He won't even get a clothes dryer repaired, what makes you think he would ever expend any energy to look out for your best interests in any legal sense when it comes to his property, his finances and his family?

And forget the 90 mile fantasy. It's not going to happen. I'm so sorry.

 

[smackie9]

Maybe his interest in her is financial. Keeping himself in the will. Taking care of the golden goose.

[Tinydance]

Well I don't think it's actually that weird that he gets along well with Carol and is close to her. If his wife actually died and they didn't break up or divorce, he obviously still loved his wife and was on good terms with her family. If he was with his wife for a very long time then maybe Carol was a big part of their lives as a family.

Some people do get along well with their MIL and maybe back in the day she helped them a lot too. Maybe she babysat the children, did nice things for them and the children. I mean, this is a very elderly lady. It's not like he's hanging out with a single woman his own age or something. She also is still his children's grandmother even though they are adults now. If the sons have some kind of event, let's say their 30th or engagement party. Both Joe and Carol would be there. So they are actually still in each other's lives through the sons as well, as Carol is their grandmother.

How often is Joe helping Carol? Is it just once a week he takes her to church or lunch? Or he helps her really often, a few times a week? If it's basically only once a week then personally I wouldn't see it any differently than my partner meeting a friend or family member for lunch. I have no problem with my partner spending time with friends or family. I mean, his relationship with Carol isn't romantic. He probably sees her mother as like a mother figure and friend.

I don't think the laundry situation is actually Carol's fault. You said yourself Joe hates doing laundry and he himself wanted Carol or you to do it. That's something Joe is doing by his own choice.

You could suggest to Joe that he can talk to Carol and say to her that maybe she can also call on her friends, daughter and grandkids to help. But again, if Joe is doing all this then maybe he actually wants to do it. I wouldn't be blaming Carol for this because Joe can say no if he wanted to. I'm actually getting the impression he WANTS to help her. But if he only helps her occasionally I don't necessarily see a big deal in it.

In terms of her being in rehab.  If my friend or family member was in hospital then I'd be happy to help as well. I don't really understand why people are saying don't marry this guy because he helps an elderly family member. I mean, if you really don't like it then don't marry him. But I don't think it makes him a bad guy.

You said he was actually helping your father too when your father was sick. Also if he's been going to that church with Carol for many years then he probably sees that as "his" church. I'm not religious but from my understanding someone's church is their community, they have friends there. Maybe you think Joe goes there only because of Carol but he might be going there also for himself. You're asking him to join another church and that's not where he knows everyone or has belonged there for many years.

Sounds very jaded to me to just call him a gold digger just because he helps this old woman. If she was a stranger then sure but she's actually family.

 

[Wiseman2]

On 12/2/2023 at 3:56 PM, Sweet Sue said:

. She is 85 years old and has some health issues. She is legally blind and lives alone. Joe has been bringing his laundry for me to wash and dry for the last 6 weeks 

Why was this woman doing his laundry?  Joe seems to have some issues with independence and finances. Perhaps step back and observe before you jump in and especially get legally involved or sell your house. 

[Tinydance]

By the way, ten years ago I actually had a volunteer job. I was visiting a lonely 90-year-old woman in a nursing home. I did it on a regular basis. I would read books to her and we would sit in the garden and things like that. I actually enjoyed doing it.

[Sweet Sue]

 Tinydance- your first two paragraphs accurately describe the situation precisely. She has been an integral part of his life and even took care of their children while the both of them worked. 

You asked me how often does he help her out? 

He helps her out almost daily for 3-4 hours a day after work. Mind you, she has a daughter, another son in law who is retired and is home all day as well as friends and neighbors, but it is Joe that does helps the most. It is Joe that she will call in an emergency as they live just 5 minutes apart. Her daughter does work a full time job but is off on Monday and Sunday. They live further away and do not attend the same church. Carol and her daughter are not as close and that is why Carol depends so much on Joe because he is willing to help. 

We spent Christmas at her home tonight and she was very weak. She is still recovering from her total knee replacement surgery 3 weeks ago and will be having her other knee done in the Spring.

In the last week, Joe has been a little short with me every time I ask about what he is doing about getting his house ready for market and if he plans to have an Estate sell like I am. Whenever the topic about moving or preparing to move, he shuts me down. He'll say things like, "I haven't had time, I've been busy with Joyce, or working on the stock market. I also have a part time job that takes up all of my morning." Then he adds, "I don't want to talk about it, we've talked about it before". 

I just step back and let him cool his heels. A few days later, he told me that he is cleaning out some rooms. I asked him what he plans to do with all of his 'stuff'- things like furniture, appliances etc and he tells me he doesn't know yet. 

I only ask because it will help me decide if I want to sell my fridge or we keep his fridge and entertainment center and other items he has in his home- then I will know if I will sell mine or not.

I suspect he is putting off our moving -not the marriage- but moving away because he feels an obligation to care for Joyce who really has nobody that helps her to the extent that he does. 

It's like he has put our plans on 'hold' while Joyce is going through a difficult spot. So, where does that leave me, I wonder?

I am still doing his laundry- two months later. He gets a bit annoyed at me when I ask if he has fixed his dryer and reminds me how busy he is helping Joyce and other things he feels needs his attention.

As I stated before, I don't mind helping out my fiancee, but I am beginning to think he is taking advantage of me. I mean, how long does it take to identify the problem and fix it? Is it wrong for me to think maybe he's taking advantage of my offer of help? Wouldn't any of you reading this be glad to help out your fiancee? At what point would you NOT be so willing to help? 

If my car broke down and I couldn't drive it, I know my fiancee' wouldn't mind driving me all over town, helping me run errands and taking me to doctor appointments - at least for a while. At what point should I expect him to look at me and say, "It's been two months now, honey - do you have any idea when you might get your car fixed?" 

Initially I thought I would be doing his laundry for just two weeks and now, it is going on two months.

I know he doesn't want to have to buy a dryer if we are getting married in the Spring, so what's the rush! 

The reason I am in such rush to move is because the city in which we both reside has a high crime rate that most of our friends and some of my family, have already moved away. Also, I want to be closer to my grandchildren. Right now, it's a 3 1/2 hour drive to see my grandchildren. If we move 90-100 miles north, then we are in a better for me to see my grandchildren more regularly instead of once or twice a year - and Joe will be the same distance from his family- it's a compromise that we have agreed to- the problem is getting him to move this a little faster along. 

 

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

. It is Joe that she will call in an emergency as they live just 5 minutes apart.  I want to be closer to my grandchildren. Right now, it's a 3 1/2 hour drive to see my grandchildren. If we move 90-100 miles north, then we are in a better for me to see my grandchildren more regularly 

Unfortunately it seems like  Joe doesn't want to move. How far apart do you live from Joe? Please actually see if you are going to move at all before you start selling things and combining households. Why can't Joe do his laundry at his mother inlaws house? 

Please focus on Joe, not the rest of his in-laws. He's the one who doesn't want to move, sell his house or spend more time with you. What his in-laws are doing is not for you to manage as far as how much time Joe wants to spend with the mother in law. 

Unfortunately it seems like this move would only benefit you, so it's understandable he's not interested. It doesn't seem like a "compromise", it seems like an unnecessary, undesirable expense and hassle for him and his family. It's also unclear why you're having "estate sales" before you're even sure if you're moving.

If it's your late father's house you can sell off whatever you want but that doesn't mean Joe has to do the same thing with his house.

It's unclear why you are questioning him about his appliances and dryer when the solution is for him to go to a laundromat or someone else's house.

I'm sorry but it's seems like you and Joe are marching to your own drummers and not on the same page whatsoever. 

[Lambert]

I think you have to decide if the situation would not change, would you marry him?

He's dragging on his commitments to you and I think you're right to question it. 

I would not marry this guy until you move. Honestly, as an outsider, I can totally see him happily marrying you and then stonewalling on the move. because after all, MIL needs him. 

Ugh. I'm sorry but there's no way this situation would be good enough for me to be married to it. 

He's showing you what it will be like. That move is not going to happen.

[Batya33]

47 minutes ago, Lambert said:

I think you have to decide if the situation would not change, would you marry him?

He's dragging on his commitments to you and I think you're right to question it. 

I would not marry this guy until you move. Honestly, as an outsider, I can totally see him happily marrying you and then stonewalling on the move. because after all, MIL needs him. 

Ugh. I'm sorry but there's no way this situation would be good enough for me to be married to it. 

He's showing you what it will be like. That move is not going to happen.

 I completely agree.  Comes down to boundaries.  For the first 7 years of our marriage (our son was born a few months after the wedding) I solo parented a ton so he could go to our hometown 800 miles away and care for his aging/disabled parents.  I knew it would be like this I signed up for this, he is an only child.  For the first 5 years we spent most of the summer in our home town and when my son was young and on a nap schedule it was really hard for me to take him with me to come to family stuff plus my inlaws' home wasn't safe for a toddler.  

I say this all because one particular day stands out.  I was exhausted and sleep deprived from the baby and once again husband wanted to go see his parents plus some relatives who were visiting.  I couldn't go with the baby.  I asked him how long he would be out to know when I could get a little break.  He said he had to leave even earlier because a family friend wanted to visit and needed a ride from her home a half hour or so away to his parents' home.  And home again. 

In hindsight I wish I'd have put my foot down more.  There was no reason he had to play chauffer when his wife and mother of his son was exhausted like that and he'd be away hours longer. Again, after multiple visits . I think I did say something but not in a boundary way.  I can't believe I remember this day so clearly a dozen years later -not resentful just regretful that I didn't assert myself. 

It is that simple -state your boundaries simply and clearly.  In a polite and firm way and if you want to write it out and read it to him do so.  No ultimatum use I statements and be clear and without apology.  3-4 hours a day is fine in general and not fine with you. No need to judge- this is his choice to take on a part time job unpaid caring for this elderly woman in a way that means he cannot be with you or contribute to the relationship.  It doesn't matter if it would not be ok with me or anyone else.  It's why I agree so much with Lambert.

[Andrina]

When you marry someone, it should be because you're happy with your partner in all important ways in the present. It will be extremely unwise to marry while assuming and envisioning how all your major problems will dissolve after moving.

Right now:

He doesn't care that you're doing a regular chore for him when he does zero, regular chores for you. Isn't that telling of his character?

You don't feel fulfilled with quality couple time.

You're preparing for a move and he's solely going on with his normal, daily routine.

You're the only one stoking this relationship train with coal. Why are you okay with that? And yes, so far you are okay with it because you remain.

What would I do in your shoes? Sounds like you want to move further north whether you remain with him or breakup. So plan for just that. Tell him you're going full force into packing up and you no longer have time to do his laundry. Tell him you'd like to delay the marriage until after the move. And then do not ask him at all about estate sales, etc. Most people leave appliances when they sell, and so the house you move into will likely have appliances. Sell what you don't want. When you're done, sell your house and rent in the area you'd like to live and put your stuff in storage. If he doesn't move your way by the given, personal timeline you've set for yourself, buy a place for yourself close to your grandchildren. A good timeline would be the deadline when you're forced to buy to avoid paying taxes on the home's sale.

When you're in the new town, only match his effort. If he visits once, you can visit him next. But he has to be the first to do so and to communicate first. You don't reach out until he does. Sounds harsh and extreme? Well, your nudging hasn't worked. It's a good way to gauge whether or not he wants to build a new life with you.

You're good at observing but your inaction to those observations has you placing yourself as a doormat. The new year is a great time to change that.