Waiting for better

[Truth05]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Your criteria are fine. However you seem to be looking in the wrong places. It's especially difficult if you are searching for someone with the same faith but claim the men who attend your church are jerks. 

Please consider upscale PAID relationship focused dating apps.

There are apps for Christian singles and people looking for serious relationships. Paid apps may give you a more select group of people and may have better screening and matching tools. 

That's exactly what I did. I put an emphasis more on paid dating apps. I have nice picture, profile, still get dismissed by men or they get offended just by asking them simple questions such as 'how would they define a real Christian woman' as some of them seem to say they cannot find a real Christian woman.  After asking such questions, they stopped replying, which it's a good thing, as I cannot imagine myself being with someone I cannot ask a simple question. Then, there is the other category as those at church. After few days, they send me biblical verses on how a woman should be. Then if I ask them are they the real Christian men, they get offended and say as a woman should not give advice. Many of these men were living worldly, became Christian lately in life and became entitled and have double standards. They interpret the Bible wrong and assume a woman is less than a man, again wrong interpreted. Realistically, I know it's difficult to find a man to treat me as a partner, not as 'the woman who needs to serve'. I do not think dating apps are better either. Hearing from other ladies, seems to be an 'empitemic', not only in church, but generally. Perhaps, I need to paraphrase, not 'waiting for better', but 'waiting for a compatible partner' to me. This does not mean will come, but I am also open to stay celibate, I won't compromise my core identity for someone again, as I did in the past. Being with someone, I am forcing to connect, it's the worse scenario. Not only I will hurt myself, but also the other person, and this will be extended to other people. Under no circumstances! 

[Jaunty]

Why not just concentrate on other areas of your life.  Nurture your friendships,  learn a new skill, maybe do some kind of inner work that doesn't have anything to do with what you learned in your church.   Nothing against your church.  But there are many ways to go deeper.

[Wiseman2]

21 minutes ago, Truth05 said:

 I am also open to stay celibate, I won't compromise my core identity for someone again, as I did in the past.

Sorry this is happening. Maybe taking a break from dating until your hurt and anger have subsided and your heart is open again. 

[Truth05]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. Maybe taking a break from dating until your hurt and anger have subsided and your heart is open again. 

I actually took my time to heal after my last relationship. I got to a point where I receive rejection better, and  anger subsided. It's just a reality of how things are, putting the blame on me, won't help, as I did in the past. I'm focusing on seeing things as a whole picture, including the society's impact on people etc, changes in the dating process etc. I think this would help me overall. 

[dias]

34 minutes ago, Truth05 said:

 the real Christian men

How are the real Christian men? I am (very) far from that but I am curious to know. 

[Truth05]

36 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Why not just concentrate on other areas of your life.  Nurture your friendships,  learn a new skill, maybe do some kind of inner work that doesn't have anything to do with what you learned in your church.   Nothing against your church.  But there are many ways to go deeper.

Yes, I have started doing this. I feel already much better and happier. 😊

[lostandhurt]

So you are using this guy you are dating to keep you company even though you feel he is below your standards.  This makes you no different than the men you described as entitled you met when you were younger. Also it is not a very christian thing to be doing wouldn't you agree?

  Let this guy down as easy and kindly as possible so as to not hurt him and then spend some time really figuring out what you want. 

 Your masters degree means you went to school longer than most but it does not make you a better person.  Traveling the same so let go of these things and focus on who you are, your character, empathy, interests, passions, hobbies and what you want for and in your life as you continue to search for the guy that is right for you.

 I agree meeting someone that can converse at a similar level and has similar interests is important but if they are not it doesn't mean they are better or worse than you, it just means they are different.  This is a distinction you seem to be missing by judging them as unworthy.

 Please end your relationship so this guy can meet someone that is honest and cares for who he is and doesn't just use him as a place holder.

  I have met a lot of very attractive women that are not unlike you and they seem to be perpetually on dating sites.  This begs the question: Is it the quality of men they meet or sky high expectations?

Lost

[Batya33]

I would ask the "define real Christian man" sort of question when you have a phone call - if you have to know before the first meet -not in a typed message to a stranger.

[Truth05]

1 hour ago, lostandhurt said:

So you are using this guy you are dating to keep you company even though you feel he is below your standards.  This makes you no different than the men you described as entitled you met when you were younger. Also it is not a very christian thing to be doing wouldn't you agree?

  Let this guy down as easy and kindly as possible so as to not hurt him and then spend some time really figuring out what you want. 

 Your masters degree means you went to school longer than most but it does not make you a better person.  Traveling the same so let go of these things and focus on who you are, your character, empathy, interests, passions, hobbies and what you want for and in your life as you continue to search for the guy that is right for you.

 I agree meeting someone that can converse at a similar level and has similar interests is important but if they are not it doesn't mean they are better or worse than you, it just means they are different.  This is a distinction you seem to be missing by judging them as unworthy.

 Please end your relationship so this guy can meet someone that is honest and cares for who he is and doesn't just use him as a place holder.

  I have met a lot of very attractive women that are not unlike you and they seem to be perpetually on dating sites.  This begs the question: Is it the quality of men they meet or sky high expectations?

Lost

I have already mentioned I ended up dating him and I've explained him in a nice, mature way. He was understanding and respected my decision. I have not used anyone for company.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Truth05 said:

. Many of these men were living worldly, became Christian lately in life and became entitled and have double standards. 

Are you open to dating men of other faiths who have integrity and a good moral compass? 

[Truth05]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Are you open to dating men of other faiths who have integrity and a good moral compass? 

The guy I was talking about was from a different Christian faith, which lately would have been a clash of beliefs. I am open though to date Christian guys from similar denominations, but with strong faith. 

[lostandhurt]

I can tell you right now you have a very steep hill to climb once you throw religion into the mix.

 You said that the men interpreted the bible wrong when in fact they interpreted it differently than you is all. Very devout Christians view the role of the woman very differently than more modern Christians do and some like you mentioned like the idea of having the woman subservient and that is why they desire a Christian woman.

Perhaps a more progressive church might help you meet people with the same interpretation as you.

  Remember just because you read a passage and find comfort, understanding and knowledge a certain way doesn't mean you are right or wrong it just means this is the way you feel about the meaning. This holds true for someone that reads the same words and views them differently.  Not right or wrong, just different.  

 Core beliefs, values, character are very important to share in a relationship but understanding and acceptance is also extremely important.

 There are so many kinds/types of churches out there now from old testament hard liners to very progressive almost party vibe congregations and everything in between. Perhaps visiting a few different ones once in a while might lead you to meet people more inline with who you are looking for.

If you keep fishing in the same old pond you catch the same fish...

I believe he is out there searching for you as you search for him.  Keep looking it will happen and be well worth the effort.

Lost   

[Wiseman2]

48 minutes ago, Truth05 said:

 I am open though to date Christian guys from similar denominations, but with strong faith. 

It's good to be a bit open minded since you described the men from your church more like wolves in sheep's clothing. Maybe you need to see beyond the wool into the true character of someone you would consider dating?

[Truth05]

14 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's good to be a bit open minded since you described the men from your church more like wolves in sheep's clothing. Maybe you need to see beyond the wool into the true character of someone you would consider dating?

Yes, I am open to this, but certainly I know there are real Christian, similar to me. I would rather wait, or just accept celibacy as an alternative, but won't compromise again if a guy does not have strong Christian values and principles to guide his life. I do not use bad language, do not believe in idolatry,horoscope, praying to saints, witchcraft etc etc. Definitely, I won't get along with a so called 'Christian' who practices or  believes in any of these.

There are so many principles, of course, the above mentioned are just a few of the fundamental ones. I would not feel comfortable in the future to consider having kids with someone who is okay for the kids to watch cartoons with witchcraft etc. I am seeing the whole picture, long-term. If I want to have a family and kids, I will be directly responsible not only for my choice for a partner, but also for my future kids. I know few cases of marriage in different denominations, they brought up the children to a state of not knowing if they have faith in something.

Let's say a realistic example for me will be: the partner wants to baptise the child as an infant to declare them Christians, where I am strongly against this practice and do not believe a baby can choose such a thing and should wait to grow up and decide. This will bring all sorts of problems, and I know the extended families will also suffer. Being with someone from similar faith, would make things easier and more acceptance and trust from the extended family also. 

Regarding the guys from church, indeed, this is upsetting. But, it does not mean I will need to compromise my beliefs and for the sake of being marry, just accept a guy who has a  ' good character', but has a faith, where fundamental beliefs are different. This is not an option for me and I have known this since I was young and I still hold on this belief even stronger now. Probably, the problem is about living in a different time where the Christian women outnumbers the Christian men, and then there is a lack of a positive, masculine role-model amongst men; and father- figure in families. 

[Kwothe28]

4 minutes ago, Truth05 said:

here I am strongly against this practice and do not believe a baby can choose such a thing and should wait to grow up and decide.

Again with contradictions. People who believe that baby cant choose gender or what to do, you wont find inside the church but at some other place. For example liberal arts college lol. People inside the church are very, very traditional value. They are not "free spirited" and stick to religious dogmas. They would very much have a problem with you not baptising a child because of their beliefs. On the other hand somebody from liberal arts college, would very much have a problem with you forbidding your kid from watching Harry Potter(well not Harry Potter, they hate that one now, probably some other witchcraft thing). Because it is exactly what religious fanatics would do and they dont like those.

That is what I mean by contradictions. You exhibited 2 extreme beliefs that contradict each other. And want to find a man who also holds 2 extreme beliefs that contradict each other. Beliefs that you would most likely find in a 2 different men. Who hate each other because of them. What you want is not realistic at all. 

[Truth05]

18 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Again with contradictions. People who believe that baby cant choose gender or what to do, you wont find inside the church but at some other place. For example liberal arts college lol. People inside the church are very, very traditional value. They are not "free spirited" and stick to religious dogmas. They would very much have a problem with you not baptising a child because of their beliefs. On the other hand somebody from liberal arts college, would very much have a problem with you forbidding your kid from watching Harry Potter(well not Harry Potter, they hate that one now, probably some other witchcraft thing). Because it is exactly what religious fanatics would do and they dont like those.

That is what I mean by contradictions. You exhibited 2 extreme beliefs that contradict each other. And want to find a man who also holds 2 extreme beliefs that contradict each other. Beliefs that you would most likely find in a 2 different men. Who hate each other because of them. What you want is not realistic at all. 

I think you can do a bit of research on Christian denominations to understand better before saying I contract myself.

In evangelical denominations, we receive the baptism as a personal choice at a mature age and we do not recognise the infant baptism as biblical, but rather a traditional process. We follow the biblical principles, not traditions. This type of baptism I follow, it's practised by at least 5 Christian denominations. When I was referring to not marrying in other denominations, I was strictly speaking about a few of them who we differ in fundamental principles of faith.  I won't give exact names of those denominations, as I do not want to offend someone.  But there are a few denominations similar to mine, who have similar/same fundamental principles and I strongly want to find someone from one of them as a partner. 

[Batya33]

I respect your religious preferences FWIW. And your preferences greatly restrict your dating pool. My suggestion- find a matchmaker with knowledge of your particular religious preferences.  Maybe someone at church might know someone?

[Jaunty]

There are religious dating sites and probably dating coaches who will only match you with people who are as fully indoctrinated to the exact same dogma as you are.   

You will have to put up with some things; for example, you are pretty much a loner in the Evangelical/ Fundamentalist community if you insist that the teachings of Paul regarding the roles of men and women in family, church and social life do not actually place the man in a primary position relative to women.   Husband is the "head."

If you want a man who doesn't believe in "sprinkling" but also agrees with you that those who adhere to the traditional interpretation of the writings of Paul are "wrong" about your bible, you are looking for a unicorn.  

Good luck with that.  

[lostandhurt]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

find a matchmaker with knowledge of your particular religious preferences.

This is an excellent suggestion.  Debating your beliefs here is not allowed or recommend as it is always a touchy subject but they have narrowed your dating pool down to a very slim population so finding someone that specializes in finding needles in haystacks so to speak would be a smart move. A quick search shows they do exist so why not see if there is one in your area.

 Most Christian women I have met hated Christian dating sites because of the hypocrisy.

  Lost 

[Cherylyn]

I agree with @Kwothe28.  Try Christian websites and whittle down your search albeit safely.  If you decide to meet in a safe,  public place,  do so very wisely. 

There is nothing wrong with being very picky and choosy regarding your faith.  "Be evenly yoked."  Naturally,  you'll have more in common with a man who can relate to you better regarding your faith,  what both of you value,  principles,  tenets,  beliefs and how you want to raise your family.  I fully support it. 

It pays to remain patient instead of impulsive or settling.  Be very picky and choosy because it will pay off in the long run later.  🙂

[itsallgrand]

Do people in your faith/denom tend to marry young? Why did you say there are more women than men of this particular faith...why is that? Is it location based or some other reason? 

Are you open to dating older men, outside your culture, etc? 

Just trying to understand how small your pool really is with your dealbreakers.

 

[Tinydance]

I'm sorry but I think that your standards are in fact probably too high. You want a good man and there's nothing wrong with that part. But the fact you want a Christian man does actually narrow it down a lot more. You also said that a lot of Christian men you meet are too misogynistic or patriarchal, etc. So that narrows it down even more. Normally when people are looking for a partner, they think about what the most important things are to them and they don't dwell on lesser things.

Of course if someone asked anyone, if you could have a perfect partner, who would they be? Very likely people would say good-looking, rich, well educated, nice person, shares my interests and hobbies, shares my values, cooks for me. And if they have something more specific they might say: "I want them to be vegan/Muslim/Christian/Jewish, etc." The problem is that lists like these are too specific and too long. So it makes it nearly impossible to actually find anyone who is going to tick these check points.

I agree with you that it's hard to find a partner. But I'm just getting a sense from you specifically that your expectations are too high. I also agree with lostandhurt that just because you got a Master's degree or travelled doesn't mean that you're better than other people. I'm not saying that you need to date men with low IQ but there are plenty of people who don't have a university degree who are still intelligent or street smart. 

I also agree with the comment that there are attractive and smart women who don't seem to find anyone. My guess is it's because they're too picky.

[Wiseman2]

15 hours ago, Truth05 said:

 I strongly want to find someone from one of them as a partner. 

It also depends on demographics. It's unclear if you are a native English speaker or what type of area you live in such as city, rural, conservative, etc. So have you considered long distance relationships if the pool of potential desirable matches is limited in your area?

[Cherylyn]

I can't speak for everyone but I was extremely picky when choosing my husband.  I shopped around indeed.  We were both in our early 20s and had the time of our lives!  I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat, too!  💗

The reason why I was very selective was because I've already known the worst of the worst 'courtesy' of my familial background (namely my late father),  some obnoxious male colleagues throughout my career,  neighbors,  friends,  my family's friends,  relatives,  dates,  some men in society and it runs the gamut.  😒  I knew what I  didn't  want in a man.   There were times when I was so disgusted that it permanently cemented my resolve all the more. 

Sure,  it was a long list of very high standards but my perseverance and patience paid off and here I am today. 😊 Had I rushed into settling and lowering my standards and expectations,  there is no doubt that I'd be very unhappy today or divorced as opposed to living a great, very comfortable life with my husband and sons in an established suburb. 🏡

Even my friends and mother have commented that I've done well with my current outcome.  It was a long road to arrive at this point in my life.  There are no regrets.  🤗

I've known so many women including friends and my mother who thought they could either change a man or thought they only deserved to have men whom they weren't completely compatible with.  Both scenarios were disastrous and filled with bitterness and resentment galore.  ☹️ 😢  Nowadays,  they're either resigned if they hung onto endless problems in their marriages or relieved post-divorce. 

My mother taught me that you can never change a man.  I didn't have to hear her quote twice!  After growing up in a tension filled household,  I certainly did not want to follow my mother's miserable footsteps.  I wanted a better life for myself and a bright future. 

Granted,  my late father was an extreme case.  He was a smoker,  alcoholic,  wife beater,  womanizer and left my mother with insurmountable debts ($450,000 debts + mortgage).  She drove a jalopy,  he left her with 3 children with nary a penny towards child support and no visitations yet she triumphed.  She paid off all debts,  never filed for bankruptcy,  saved her house from foreclosure,  paid off her house,  currently owns her house free and clear,  raised 3 children all by herself without help from anyone,  worked 3 jobs 7 days a week to provide for us and she is the quintessential "Steel Magnolia."  I don't know of any woman tougher than my mother.  💪 She is true grit.  Failure was never an option for her.  

Having said that,  nonetheless,  I still wanted to make smarter choices than my mother.  She was very naive when she married.   I vowed to get it together and do it right.  I feel relieved by my choices.  My goal was to ensure my happily ever after and I achieved it.  For me,  being impulsive or having the mentality of "this is as good as it gets" was never enough for me.  I've always strived for the best in my life.  Being careful and satisfied with choices in the first place is more enduring. 

Throughout my childhood,  teen years and beyond,  I knew exactly what I wanted.  Fortunately,  I had some friends and neighbors who hailed from solid families and had amazing fathers.  These fathers and husbands were stalwarts and this is exactly what I aimed for and got him.   In retrospect,  being extremely observant and perceptive taught me to attain the best and nothing less in a man.  

Sound economics was a must.  I did not wish for a lifetime of hardship and struggle.  Been there done that already.  ☹️

Shopping around paid off handsomely!  I went on dates and those men were duds and instant rejects.  👎  😒

My husband and I share the same faith.  Our lifestyles are the same,  we're both teetotalers,  prefer clean living and agreed how to raise our sons properly.  He's extremely helpful,  kind,  considerate,  selfless,  well mannered,  a gentleman,  extremely respectful and reminiscent of his late father.  He always picks up the slack.  We enjoy cooking together and he'll always help with post-meal clean up in the kitchen.  I'm glad I did not marry a slob!  He helps with maintaining a clean house.  He's a weekend handyman (repairs / electrical / plumbing / construction / maintenance),  fixes everything including cars and the house, does yard work, etc.  We've saved a ton of money. 💰 He respects everyone but truly respects women thanks to his late father.  His late father taught him how to be a man,  how to respect women in particular,  how to be a father and husband.  I owe a world of gratitude especially to my late father-in-law (FIL) in particular.  He set the bar very high. 

Even though I love my brother,  he's not marriage material.  ☹️  He's nice but nice is not good enough because he lacks in other areas.  Perhaps he's better suited for a woman who isn't as picky and choosy as I was. 

Is it luck?  Yes.  I was at the right place at the right time.  Is it difficult to find a catch?  Yes,  it's like finding a needle in a haystack.  However,  it's not impossible.  They're out there and searching for you, too! 

 

[Truth05]

2 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

I can't speak for everyone but I was extremely picky when choosing my husband.  I shopped around indeed.  We were both in our early 20s and had the time of our lives!  I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat, too!  💗

The reason why I was very selective was because I've already known the worst of the worst 'courtesy' of my familial background (namely my late father),  some obnoxious male colleagues throughout my career,  neighbors,  friends,  my family's friends,  relatives,  dates,  some men in society and it runs the gamut.  😒  I knew what I  didn't  want in a man.   There were times when I was so disgusted that it permanently cemented my resolve all the more. 

Sure,  it was a long list of very high standards but my perseverance and patience paid off and here I am today. 😊 Had I rushed into settling and lowering my standards and expectations,  there is no doubt that I'd be very unhappy today or divorced as opposed to living a great, very comfortable life with my husband and sons in an established suburb. 🏡

Even my friends and mother have commented that I've done well with my current outcome.  It was a long road to arrive at this point in my life.  There are no regrets.  🤗

I've known so many women including friends and my mother who thought they could either change a man or thought they only deserved to have men whom they weren't completely compatible with.  Both scenarios were disastrous and filled with bitterness and resentment galore.  ☹️ 😢  Nowadays,  they're either resigned if they hung onto endless problems in their marriages or relieved post-divorce. 

My mother taught me that you can never change a man.  I didn't have to hear her quote twice!  After growing up in a tension filled household,  I certainly did not want to follow my mother's miserable footsteps.  I wanted a better life for myself and a bright future. 

Granted,  my late father was an extreme case.  He was a smoker,  alcoholic,  wife beater,  womanizer and left my mother with insurmountable debts ($450,000 debts + mortgage).  She drove a jalopy,  he left her with 3 children with nary a penny towards child support and no visitations yet she triumphed.  She paid off all debts,  never filed for bankruptcy,  saved her house from foreclosure,  paid off her house,  currently owns her house free and clear,  raised 3 children all by herself without help from anyone,  worked 3 jobs 7 days a week to provide for us and she is the quintessential "Steel Magnolia."  I don't know of any woman tougher than my mother.  💪 She is true grit.  Failure was never an option for her.  

Having said that,  nonetheless,  I still wanted to make smarter choices than my mother.  She was very naive when she married.   I vowed to get it together and do it right.  I feel relieved by my choices.  My goal was to ensure my happily ever after and I achieved it.  For me,  being impulsive or having the mentality of "this is as good as it gets" was never enough for me.  I've always strived for the best in my life.  Being careful and satisfied with choices in the first place is more enduring. 

Throughout my childhood,  teen years and beyond,  I knew exactly what I wanted.  Fortunately,  I had some friends and neighbors who hailed from solid families and had amazing fathers.  These fathers and husbands were stalwarts and this is exactly what I aimed for and got him.   In retrospect,  being extremely observant and perceptive taught me to attain the best and nothing less in a man.  

Sound economics was a must.  I did not wish for a lifetime of hardship and struggle.  Been there done that already.  ☹️

Shopping around paid off handsomely!  I went on dates and those men were duds and instant rejects.  👎  😒

My husband and I share the same faith.  Our lifestyles are the same,  we're both teetotalers,  prefer clean living and agreed how to raise our sons properly.  He's extremely helpful,  kind,  considerate,  selfless,  well mannered,  a gentleman,  extremely respectful and reminiscent of his late father.  He always picks up the slack.  We enjoy cooking together and he'll always help with post-meal clean up in the kitchen.  I'm glad I did not marry a slob!  He helps with maintaining a clean house.  He's a weekend handyman (repairs / electrical / plumbing / construction / maintenance),  fixes everything including cars and the house, does yard work, etc.  We've saved a ton of money. 💰 He respects everyone but truly respects women thanks to his late father.  His late father taught him how to be a man,  how to respect women in particular,  how to be a father and husband.  I owe a world of gratitude especially to my late father-in-law (FIL) in particular.  He set the bar very high. 

Even though I love my brother,  he's not marriage material.  ☹️  He's nice but nice is not good enough because he lacks in other areas.  Perhaps he's better suited for a woman who isn't as picky and choosy as I was. 

Is it luck?  Yes.  I was at the right place at the right time.  Is it difficult to find a catch?  Yes,  it's like finding a needle in a haystack.  However,  it's not impossible.  They're out there and searching for you, too! 

 

Thank you for sharing your story, Cherylyn. It is encouraging! 

I'm so happy for you, you got to meet your husband and receive what you truly deserved. You are blessed and you seem a very good person also.I have been following other topics on this website, and I've found your responses towards others also to be so helpful and realistic🙏