Unpacking my run in with a murderer... over ten years later.

[Cynder]

I really don't know if posting this is going to accomplish much or if I should even be posting it at all.  It's something I plan to talk about in therapy.  But that is over a week away.  I'm going to be vague with a lot of the details, too.  Because I don't want everyone running to Google and figuring out who it is I'm talking about. This isn't out of respect for him.  It's mainly because I don't want everyone knowing where I live. 

Over ten years ago I met and became acquainted with this guy through some volunteer work I was involved in.  We got to talking one day and started having these really long conversations about things like religion, etc.  We talked on the regular for a few months.  I mean, he would call me a couple times a week and our conversations were usually over an hour long.  He was divorced and had a child.  He was employed full time and seemed like an upstanding member of society. It seemed like he was a good dad.  He talked about his ex wife amicably, etc.   

Well, as time went on we drifted out of contact like people do.  I didn't really think much of it.  I wondered what he was up to occasionally, but that was it. 

Well, years later he was all over the news.  He was a serial killer and he had been active for over a decade.  Which means he was active when I knew him.  I talked about this with my therapist at the time.  But I didn't really know how to feel about it.  And, recently (through a a conversation with my writing mentor, oddly enough) this whole thing came bubbling back up to the surface and I realized I never really unpacked it. 

He didn't attack strangers.  He didn't pick up sex workers and kill them.  He befriended his victims.  I'm really trying to not give too many details here because I don't want people knowing who it is.  But he targeted people he considered weak.  And he had certain groups of people that were weak in his eyes.  He didn't like disabled people.  And so now I find myself wondering if he was targeting me because I'm disabled.  There is one person who survived an attack by him, and this person described something similar to what I experienced with him.  They were friends.  They had these long talks about heavy topics, etc.  I can't say for sure what his intentions were with me.  But I keep thinking about how close I might have came to being a murder victim. 

And for me this is something that has layers.  Because I've lived most of my life wishing I was dead.  And I have also lived most of my life feeling invisible and like I don't really matter to anyone.  I am also a big true crime person.  And in the past when I've listened to true crime podcasts and stuff...  And the way they talk about the victims has gotten to me when I've been really depressed.  Because they always say these amazing things about people who are murdered.  And I've found myself thinking the only way anyone will ever talk about me that way is if I die in some violent way, etc. 

And the last few days I keep thinking about what it was about me that made him interested...  But on the other side of it, I also keep thinking about why he decided to not try.  Like, did he think I didn't deserve to die because I'm not a weak disabled person?  Or was it just something as simple as I never went anywhere alone with him?  I know this question will never get answered.  But it's something I've kind of fixated on the last 48 hours or so.  And I am not wondering this as any form of validation.  It's not like, "Well, I must be awesome because this psycho didn't kill me."  The opinion of someone so disturbed is worthless to me.  But it's still something I've been thinking about.  I'm sure he had several potential victims in rotation.  His body count is reasonably high.  He was active for a long time. 

And I can't get over what a normal guy he seemed to be. 

Back when he was caught I don't think I had the tools to even process any of this.  Yes, I talked about it in therapy.  But I didn't really start unpacking it all until two nights ago when I was talking to the author who is mentoring me.  It's weird how a switch can flip like that.  And it's not a story I tell many people, either.  And something even more messed up... my Dad knew a prolific murderer back in the 80s.  Boy, the luck of my family, lol.  I do live in a state with a really high number of serial killers. But still... what are the odds of two family members knowing someone like this?  

I know there really isn't much advice to give here.  Any thoughts are welcome.  I am really just posting this to get it out of my head until I can talk about it in therapy.  And I really don't want any judgmental comments about how I should have known, why did I associate with this person, etc.  Keep in mind people like him are adept chameleons.  They have to be to blend in with society and not make anyone suspicious.  He is currently on death row, if anyone is curious.  I am into true crime but this is one case I never followed because it's too close to home.  But the other night I did get curious and looked up what his sentence was, etc. 

Anyway, if you made it to the end, thanks for reading.  I know this is something most people can't relate to.  

[Lambert]

Hi @Cynder

I'm sorry this is weighing on you. I know, things can get stirred up years later. 

Believe it or not, I also knew a murderer and feel I was also close to being a victim of his. 

In my case, I was a teen and hung out, as many kids did at the time, at the mall and at the local fast food place.  And there were many kids there. Some I knew very well.  Some I didn't.  Typical teen stuff.

There was a guy that came around sometimes, and people would tell me he liked me.  One day, he talked to me or someone I was with.  I really don't remember it because I looked in his eyes and he scared me. like there was something telling me this guy was effed up. and I walked away. I would avoid him going forward. 

A few weeks later.... he was arrested. he and another guy picked up two girls and were hanging out with them.  This guy killed the two girls and cut them up.  the other guy was innocent but was forced to help him or be killed himself. 

I was really disturbed for a long time that I knew this kid.  I could have been ended up in a situation where I was one of those girls. Easily.

So I think it's best to try not to dwell on it. You were spared for whatever reason and that's good!

It is such a shocking thing, don't blame yourself for any of it- being his friend, not knowing how to handle it, for burying it for all this time, for not knowing how to feel. 

I don't think anyone is prepared for the types of experiences and no one is to blame but the person that is a murderer.

Hope this helps.

[Batya33]

I hope talking about it in therapy helps.  

[Cynder]

7 hours ago, Lambert said:

Hi @Cynder

I'm sorry this is weighing on you. I know, things can get stirred up years later. 

Believe it or not, I also knew a murderer and feel I was also close to being a victim of his. 

In my case, I was a teen and hung out, as many kids did at the time, at the mall and at the local fast food place.  And there were many kids there. Some I knew very well.  Some I didn't.  Typical teen stuff.

There was a guy that came around sometimes, and people would tell me he liked me.  One day, he talked to me or someone I was with.  I really don't remember it because I looked in his eyes and he scared me. like there was something telling me this guy was effed up. and I walked away. I would avoid him going forward. 

A few weeks later.... he was arrested. he and another guy picked up two girls and were hanging out with them.  This guy killed the two girls and cut them up.  the other guy was innocent but was forced to help him or be killed himself. 

I was really disturbed for a long time that I knew this kid.  I could have been ended up in a situation where I was one of those girls. Easily.

So I think it's best to try not to dwell on it. You were spared for whatever reason and that's good!

It is such a shocking thing, don't blame yourself for any of it- being his friend, not knowing how to handle it, for burying it for all this time, for not knowing how to feel. 

I don't think anyone is prepared for the types of experiences and no one is to blame but the person that is a murderer.

Hope this helps.

So many people have told me I need to choose better company, etc.  I need to be more careful who I let into my life, etc.  But in my experience all these "stable" people who check all the right boxes and seem completely harmless are the truly bad people beneath the surface.  My ex husband was about as squeaky clean as you can get.  He had no criminal record.  He came from a really nice family.  He was an honor student all through school.  He had a good job.  He had never taken a drug and very rarely drank.  Most people who knew him casually said he was one of the nicest people they'd ever met.  But he used to beat the crap out of me and he cheated on me the whole time we were together.  And when we split up a lot of people were convinced I was the abuser. 

And there are two other people I dated who were very similar.  Nice families, they checked all the right boxes, basically.  But under all that they were actually awful people. 

I have a small group of close friends, most of which I've known since I was a teenager or my early 20s.  They are all flawed people.  But they are all good people when it comes to how they treat others, etc.  My SO is a former heroin addict who was involved in some shady stuff back when he was using.  But he's been clean for 15 years and he is a genuinely good person who wouldn't hurt a fly.  It's hard when society tells us who the good people are supposed to be, and then people with those qualities aren't good people. 

This guy was someone who checked all the boxes.  And on top of that he was a Christian and went to church every Sunday.  (I'm not a Christian, but being a Christian is something society accepts as good.)  He was also a clean cut, good looking guy. No one would ever see him walking down the street and think, "I bet that guy's a murderer."  

About a year after he was caught, I tried opening up a little about this.  I posted on Reddit about it.  And I got a lot of hate for not being able to tell something was off, etc.  And I also had a lot of people telling me how selfish I was for not going to the cops when they caught him.  Ok... go to the cops and tell them what?  "Hey, I used to be friends with this guy."  So?  I didn't have any information that would be useful to them. 

I tried talking to my Mom about it and she basically told me how stupid I am for giving him my phone number and talking to him.  Well, I didn't actually give him my phone number so we could have personal conversations.  He was coordinating volunteer work and so he had my number for scheduling reasons, etc.  Our conversations just turned personal over time. 

It's hard to accept that I was probably being targeted for being disabled, too.  Because this guy thought certain types of people didn't deserve to be alive.  And disabled people fell into that category.  And I don't go around telling everyone I'm disabled.  He only knew because he asked why I don't drive.  I guess I just need to remind myself that I don't know for sure that was the reason, or if he was even targeting me at all.  It's just a hard thing to wrap my head around. 

Our society has evolved so much when it comes to how we treat marginalized people.  But sadly, how we treat disabled people hasn't changed much in my life time.  And it probably won't any time soon.  But that's a whole other topic. 

 

[Seraphim]

I feel so much you are right about how the disabled are treated . My dad was completely deaf in one ear from birth, he also had very severe mental health issues. 

My son is disabled, he is Autistic and has been treated like total crap by society. My mom is now physically disabled and mostly deaf and she gets treated badly. My husband has a disability and when he allows people to get close enough or has work challenges he also gets treated very badly by some . He was mentally and emotionally mistreated at home . 
 

Society is horrible to those who are different. 

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, Seraphim said:

I feel so much you are right about how the disabled are treated . My dad was completely deaf in one ear from birth, he also had very severe mental health issues. 

My son is disabled, he is Autistic and has been treated like total crap by society. My mom is now physically disabled and mostly deaf and she gets treated badly. My husband has a disability and when he allows people to get close enough or has work challenges he also gets treated very badly by some . He was mentally and emotionally mistreated at home . 
 

Society is horrible to those who are different. 

My disability is mostly invisible.  I keep it on a need to know basis.  I have lost several jobs because someone at work found out.  And of course they don't say that's why I'm being let go.  But it's an awfully big coincidence that as soon as someone finds out I'm disabled they just find some reason to let me go. 

At my automotive job someone found out about a year in. I was still a temp and they straight up told me I can stay on as a temp but they won't hire me on full time because I'm a liability.  I remember posting about that here, actually.  And someone here told me I just need to "lighten up" and be grateful I still have a job.  Ok...  so I don't get benefits.  I get paid a lot less to do the same work as everyone else.  No paid vacation.  No paid holidays.  No insurance etc.  And I just need to lighten up and be grateful.  Could you imagine the outrage if it was the same situation but I was a racial minority and they told me that's why I'm not being hired?  Or if they told me it's because I'm a woman?  But because I'm disabled, it's no biggie and I just need to lighten up. 

I've had people accuse me of faking it, too.  My ex husband's whole family was convinced I was just faking it for attention and that I was just too lazy to get a driver's license. 

I've had companies hire me and then when they see my ID they change their minds because I can't drive.  And it's always, "Well how are you going to get here to work?"  I just want to be like, "Um, hello...  I got here for the interview didn't I?"  People seem to think someone who can't drive just never leaves the house.  People don't seem to know about this magical thing called public transportation. 

I have a friend who has a Master's in English and she's a literary agent.  But she's in a wheelchair.  When she goes out in public with her wife people always assume her wife is her caretaker.  And people will speak to her wife about her and not to her directly.  "Oh, what's her name?  Has she always been paralyzed?"  Like... why not ask her directly?  That would be so infuriating. And when she goes out alone people talk to her like she's a child. 

My eyes are intense looking.  I've been told I look stoned a lot.  I had a boss at an old job who would wave her hand in front of my face and say in this baby talk kind of way, "Hellooooo, back to reality pleeeeease?"  While I was fully aware of what she was saying and looking right at her. 

Yea...  these days when everyone is offended by everything it really is amazing how disabled people still get treated.  It's disgusting, really. 

[Seraphim]

5 minutes ago, Cynder said:

My disability is mostly invisible.  I keep it on a need to know basis.  I have lost several jobs because someone at work found out.  And of course they don't say that's why I'm being let go.  But it's an awfully big coincidence that as soon as someone finds out I'm disabled they just find some reason to let me go. 

At my automotive job someone found out about a year in. I was still a temp and they straight up told me I can stay on as a temp but they won't hire me on full time because I'm a liability.  I remember posting about that here, actually.  And someone here told me I just need to "lighten up" and be grateful I still have a job.  Ok...  so I don't get benefits.  I get paid a lot less to do the same work as everyone else.  No paid vacation.  No paid holidays.  No insurance etc.  And I just need to lighten up and be grateful.  Could you imagine the outrage if it was the same situation but I was a racial minority and they told me that's why I'm not being hired.  Or if they told me it's because I'm a woman?  But because I'm disabled, it's no biggie and I just need to lighten up. 

I've had people accuse me of faking it, too.  My ex husband's whole family was convinced I was just faking it for attention and that I was just too lazy to get a driver's license. 

I've had companies hire me and then when they see my ID they change their minds because I can't drive.  And it's always, "Well how are you going to get here to work?"  I just want to be like, "Um, hello...  I got here for the interview didn't I?"  People seem to think someone who can't drive just never leaves the house.  People don't seem to know about this magical thing called public transportation. 

I have a friend who has a Master's in English and she's a literary agent.  But she's in a wheelchair.  When she goes out in public with her wife people always assume her wife is her caretaker.  And people will speak to her wife about her and not to her directly.  "Oh, what's her name?  Has she always been paralyzed?"  Like... why not ask her directly?  That would be so infuriating. And when she goes out alone people talk to her like she's a child. 

My eyes are intense looking.  I've been told I look stoned a lot.  I had a boss at an old job who would wave her hand in front of my face and say in this baby talk kind of way, "Hellooooo, back to reality pleeeeease?"  While I was fully aware of what she was saying and looking right at her. 

Yea...  these days when everyone is offended by everything it really is amazing how disabled people still get treated.  It's disgusting, really. 

Disabled people are still invisible unless it is to dump on .😓

[Cherylyn]

I'm sorry for your angst @Cynder.  Change the way you think.  Consider yourself extremely lucky that you dodged a bullet!  Don't wish yourself dead and you could've died at the hands of this murderer! 

I can somewhat relate.  Long ago,  when I was 12 years old,  my late father befriended a man whom he met in public.  I think it was at a local restaurant.  He brought him home and my mother would cook for him because my father insisted upon entertaining him with dinners at our house.  I felt sorry for my subservient mother but that's what she did.  This man would show up on our doorstep with a an armful of Christmas gifts for my siblings and me on Christmas Eve.  He slowly and gradually nurtured the relationship as he built trust,  generosity and admiration over the years.   We even dubbed him "Uncle ________." 

While my father was at work,  he "volunteered" to drive my mother,  siblings and I to an Oktoberfest event faraway from home.  It was a long,  fatiguing drive home. 

Dinners at our house continued.  My father and this guy drank with those dinners.

One day,  the guy asked my mother's permission to take just ME for a long drive somewhere in the wilderness.  Alarmed,  my mother promptly declined his request yet he continued to come over for dinner.

Then when he showed up on our doorstep on a weeknight while my father was still working and while my mother was cooking dinner for her children,  he showed up with a black eye!  🤕  His eye was bloodshot,  purple,  very swollen shut and it looked as if he was beat up badly by some outraged person.  While my mother was in the kitchen and my siblings were in another room,  this guy did something nefarious but he didn't physically harm me.  I'll spare you the gory details. 😡 The landline phone was nearby but I couldn't call the police.  I quickly excused myself from the living room,  went to the kitchen and told my mother what had happened.  She immediately escorted the guy out the door in a hurry. 

My mother told my father what had happened and he was incensed. 😡  I never knew my father's reaction because when I saw him,  he donned his best poker face for years. 

(My father died young.  Note:  He was a wife beater,  womanizer,  left my mother with $450,000 debts,  smoker,  alcoholic and never attained stable employment.  My mother prevented foreclosure and bankruptcy and has since thrived with her economic independence.  She raised 3 kids all by herself without child support and visitations.) 

Anyway,  I never knew what became of the guy because after that incident,  we never saw him again. 

Many years later,  when I was happily married and mother of sons in the suburbs by then,  I asked my mother what became of the guy?  Apparently,  my father chased the guy's brother down (no cell phones nor social media back then) and requested that he relay a message to his brother,  the guy.  The message was that my father would kill him 🔫 if he were ever to show his face at our doorstep again.  Not that my father would but the brother contacted his brother.  The guy got the message loud and clear.  He didn't have to hear my father's very serious forewarning and threat twice. 

Now that I think about it,  the guy most likely attempted to rape a girl or woman and she ferociously fought back with her life.  Or,  a man beat him up for severe punishment.  Hence, the black eye. 

This guy was big,  6'  4"  250 pounds.  He was a big,  tall,  big boned guy.  Early 30's. 

For all the heinous acts inflicted upon my mother courtesy of my late father,  the ONLY one good thing he did from beyond the grave was to  permanently  protect us from that guy whom he befriended long ago.  I'll give him that. 

My mother said that had the guy took me to the wilderness,  there is no doubt,  I could've been raped and brutally murdered.  No one wants a snitch so snitches are murdered in advance.  There was no CSI back then,  no forensic science,  no DNA and who knows?  I could've ended up either as a cold case file or on the homicide shows you watch on TV.  No matter.  I would've been dead and long gone anyway.  😢

I consider myself extremely lucky and fortunate and I hope you will feel the same as I do @Cynder. 

Also,  this bad experience taught me how to be a better mother.  I'm extra vigilant and my radar is always up.  My sons are growing up safely because of me.   I was a SAHM for several years and I've told my husband everything.  He is also very vigilant.  I don't trust everyone in public.  My husband,  sons and I pick and choose people very wisely.  My key takeaway from bad experiences is many hard lessons learned.  This is how I took a very bad,  negative experience and ran away with it.  I hope you will, too.  Teach yourself how to be safe,   how to prevent associating with people who are red flags (abnormal),  learn how to be wary and jaded because it will save your life.  🙏  Live and learn.  Count your blessings.

[Cynder]

13 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

I'm sorry for your angst @Cynder.  Change the way you think.  Consider yourself extremely lucky that you dodged a bullet!  Don't wish yourself dead and you could've died at the hands of this murderer! 

I can somewhat relate.  Long ago,  when I was 12 years old,  my late father befriended a man whom he met in public.  I think it was at a local restaurant.  He brought him home and my mother would cook for him because my father insisted upon entertaining him with dinners at our house.  I felt sorry for my subservient mother but that's what she did.  This man would show up on our doorstep with a an armful of Christmas gifts for my siblings and me on Christmas Eve.  He slowly and gradually nurtured the relationship as he built trust,  generosity and admiration over the years.

While my father was at work,  he "volunteered" to drive my mother,  siblings and I to an Oktoberfest event faraway from home.  It was a long drive home. 

Dinners at our house continued.  My father and this guy drank with those dinners.

One day,  the guy asked my mother's permission to take just ME for a long drive somewhere in the wilderness.  Alarmed,  my mother promptly declined his request yet he continued to come over for dinner.

Then when he came to our door on a weeknight while my father was still working and while my mother was cooking dinner for her children,  he showed up with a black eye!  🤕  His eye was purple,  swollen and it looked like he was beat up badly by some angry person.  While my mother was in the kitchen and my siblings were in another room,  this guy did something nefarious but he didn't physically harm me.  I'll spare you the gory details. 😡 The landline phone was nearby but I couldn't call the police.  I quickly excused myself from the living room and told my mother what had happened.  She immediately escorted the guy out the door in a hurry. 

My mother told my father what had happened and he was incensed. 😡  I never knew my father's reaction because when I saw him,  he donned his best poker face. 

(My father died young.  Note:  He was a wife beater,  womanizer,  left my mother with $450,000 debts,  smoker,  alcoholic and never attained stable employment.  My mother prevented foreclosure and bankruptcy and has since thrived with her economic independence.  She raised 3 kids all by herself without child support and visitations.) 

Anyway,  I never knew what became of the guy because after that incident,  we never saw him again. 

Many years later,  when I was happily married and mother of sons in the suburbs by then,  I asked my mother what became of the guy?  Apparently,  my father chased the guy's brother down (no cell phones nor social media back then) and requested that he relay a message to his brother,  the guy.  The message was that my father would kill him 🔫 if he were ever to show his face at our doorstep again.  Not that my father would but the brother contacted his brother,  guy and he got the message loud and clear.  He didn't have to hear my father's threats twice. 

Now that I think about it,  the guy most likely attempted to rape a girl or woman and she ferociously fought back with her life.  Or, a man beat him up for severe punishment. 

This guy was big,  6'  4"  250 pounds.  He was a big,  tall,  big boned guy.  Early 30's. 

For all the heinous acts inflicted on my mother courtesy of my late father,  the one good thing he did from beyond the grave was to permanently protect us from that guy whom he befriended long ago.  I'll give him that. 

My mother said that had the guy took me to the wilderness,  there is no doubt,  I could've been raped and brutally murdered.  There was no CSI back then,  no forensic science,  no DNA and who knows?  I could've ended up either as a cold case file or on the homicide shows you watch on TV.  No matter.  I would've been long dead and gone anyway.  😢

I consider myself extremely lucky and fortunate and I hope you will feel the same as I do @Cynder. 

Also,  this bad experience taught me how to be a better mother.  I'm extra vigilant and my radar is always up.  My sons are growing up safely because of me.   I was a SAHM for several years and I've told my husband everything.  He is also very vigilant.  I don't trust everyone in public.  My husband,  sons and I pick and choose people very wisely.  My key takeaway from bad experiences is many lessons learned.  This is how I took a very bad,  negative experience and ran away with it.  I hope you will, too.  Teach yourself how to be safe,   how to prevent associating with people who are red flags (not normal),  learn how to be wary and jaded because it will save your life.  🙏  Live and learn.  Count your blessings.

Wow, what a story.  I'm sorry you went through that and I'm glad your dad did the right thing. 

Honestly, my Dad probably would have handed me over in that situation because he hated me.  I was at my cousin's wedding when I was 14 and some guy in his late 20s was creeping all over me.  He kept asking me to dance, and getting really handsy.  He tried to give me mixed drinks.  I was getting really uncomfortable and told my parents and they thought it was hilarious.  Ok... if dude is trying to give a 14 year old girl alcohol and trying to touch her in front of people, what kind of stuff would he do alone if given the opportunity? 

My sister and I used to go hang out at this skatepark when we were teenagers.  A lot of people gathered there just to socialize even if they didn't skate.  I had some older guy hitting on me there once.  I mean, I was maybe 15 and this guy was easily 45.  He wouldn't leave me alone and I ended up going and hiding most of the night until it was time to leave.  When I got home I cried to my Mom about it and she told me I shouldn't have answered him when he first said hi to me.  Honestly when he talked to me I thought maybe he was someone's dad trying to find his kid.  I thought he was going to ask me, "Have you seen so and so?"  So according to my Mom it was all my fault because I answered him.  But growing up I was always taught to be polite, etc.

There are so many mixed messages about this kind of stuff when you're a kid, and it doesn't stop when you're an adult. 

This guy didn't really show any red flags.  That's one of the things that's so hard to process. 

I've had a near death experience, too.  And my NDE happened the same year he was caught.  So, twice within a few months I had these really intense things happen in my life.  And earlier that year I went through a really bad breakup.  Boy was that a year, lol. 

[catfeeder]

13 hours ago, Cynder said:

... I have also lived most of my life feeling invisible and like I don't really matter to anyone.  ...And I've found myself thinking the only way anyone will ever talk about me that way is if I die in some violent way, etc. 

You're a swan who's been conditioned to believe that you're inferior by some mean ducklings.

On top of that, I'm awfully sorry you went through this possibly close call, Cynder. After getting to know you, the guy probably recognized that you are far from weak. 

[Lambert]

Hi @Cynder

You name a lot of instances of people being aholes and I can relate! I think we all can.  people do and say things because it helps them.  it comforts them.

Its all about them. Anyone can end up a victim to a crime or poor treatment. But some people need to continue to put down a person, a victim mind you, so that they can feel better. It's like "you make bad choices, I don't.  So I won't be victimized".

The longer I live, the more I experience, the more I see we all go through things and we can't protect ourselves from everything.  Sometimes it's just luck of the draw.

Keep doing your best @Cynder. That's all you can do.  The people that are good to you, hold on to them, focus on them. 

That's what I try to do.  Keep my circle small and enjoy things for myself.  

[Cynder]

10 hours ago, catfeeder said:

You're a swan who's been conditioned to believe that you're inferior by some mean ducklings.

On top of that, I'm awfully sorry you went through this possibly close call, Cynder. After getting to know you, the guy probably recognized that you are far from weak. 

I have absolutely no desire for any contact with this guy ever again.  But if under some weird set of circumstances I ever found myself in contact with him, that would be the only question I would want to ask.  Why didn't he come after me?  But I know the answer wouldn't even matter if he said it to me face to face.  Because he's most likely a psychopath and they can lie like it's nothing.  He could tell me anything and it probably wouldn't even be true. 

So, I would like to think that's the reason.  Maybe he thought, "Well, I only go after weak people who deserve to die.  And she's not weak.  I guess it's time to start the hunt over again."

[Cynder]

39 minutes ago, Lambert said:

Hi @Cynder

You name a lot of instances of people being aholes and I can relate! I think we all can.  people do and say things because it helps them.  it comforts them.

Its all about them. Anyone can end up a victim to a crime or poor treatment. But some people need to continue to put down a person, a victim mind you, so that they can feel better. It's like "you make bad choices, I don't.  So I won't be victimized".

The longer I live, the more I experience, the more I see we all go through things and we can't protect ourselves from everything.  Sometimes it's just luck of the draw.

Keep doing your best @Cynder. That's all you can do.  The people that are good to you, hold on to them, focus on them. 

That's what I try to do.  Keep my circle small and enjoy things for myself.  

This is exactly it.  People blame victims because it makes them feel better.  "Oh, that girl got assaulted because she left the house looking cute.  It's her fault.  That will never happen to me because I know better."  Etc. 

These people on Reddit back when I posted about this years ago were acting like I should have been a psychic or something.  I should have known, etc.  Well if I had that kind of super power my life would have been really different because I wouldn't have associated with a lot of people.  I wouldn't have given my ex husband the time of day if I knew he was going to beat me up and screw around all the time, etc.   

And the people who blame abuse victims for not leaving...  Leaving an abusive relationship is really hard.  And abusers isolate their victims to make it hard even harder.  They control money, etc.  It's not as simple as just packing a bag and leaving. 

Random question... are you from Germany?  You don't have to answer if you don't want.  The mention of Oktoberfest made me wonder. 

[catfeeder]

3 hours ago, Cynder said:

I have absolutely no desire for any contact with this guy ever again.  But if under some weird set of circumstances I ever found myself in contact with him, that would be the only question I would want to ask.  Why didn't he come after me?  But I know the answer wouldn't even matter if he said it to me face to face.  Because he's most likely a psychopath and they can lie like it's nothing.  He could tell me anything and it probably wouldn't even be true. 

So, I would like to think that's the reason.  Maybe he thought, "Well, I only go after weak people who deserve to die.  And she's not weak.  I guess it's time to start the hunt over again."

He may have had a few irons in the fire at the same time. He moved his focus onto someone else he was grooming at the time. This may have been because of an easier opportunity, or part of his grooming was to find a trigger. Something in the conversations that would flip a switch and make him angry.

Either someone else triggered him before you, or he found you straightforward and not weak enough to anger him.

Weakness may have prompted in him a suspicion of being manipulated. You tend to be frank, and that may have saved your azz!

[tattoobunnie]

WOW!  Tons of hugs.

If it helps, 1 out of 22 people are psychopathic.  And, we come across them regularly.

Several of them are married with kids like Ted Bundy. The Gilgo Killer that just got arrested, Rex Heuermann, who by the way, I know people who knew him. My buddy is related to Joel Rifkin.

I think you should go play the LOTTO like now, because you are one lucky duck!!

[Cherylyn]

15 hours ago, Cynder said:

Wow, what a story.  I'm sorry you went through that and I'm glad your dad did the right thing. 

Honestly, my Dad probably would have handed me over in that situation because he hated me.  I was at my cousin's wedding when I was 14 and some guy in his late 20s was creeping all over me.  He kept asking me to dance, and getting really handsy.  He tried to give me mixed drinks.  I was getting really uncomfortable and told my parents and they thought it was hilarious.  Ok... if dude is trying to give a 14 year old girl alcohol and trying to touch her in front of people, what kind of stuff would he do alone if given the opportunity? 

My sister and I used to go hang out at this skatepark when we were teenagers.  A lot of people gathered there just to socialize even if they didn't skate.  I had some older guy hitting on me there once.  I mean, I was maybe 15 and this guy was easily 45.  He wouldn't leave me alone and I ended up going and hiding most of the night until it was time to leave.  When I got home I cried to my Mom about it and she told me I shouldn't have answered him when he first said hi to me.  Honestly when he talked to me I thought maybe he was someone's dad trying to find his kid.  I thought he was going to ask me, "Have you seen so and so?"  So according to my Mom it was all my fault because I answered him.  But growing up I was always taught to be polite, etc.

There are so many mixed messages about this kind of stuff when you're a kid, and it doesn't stop when you're an adult. 

This guy didn't really show any red flags.  That's one of the things that's so hard to process. 

I've had a near death experience, too.  And my NDE happened the same year he was caught.  So, twice within a few months I had these really intense things happen in my life.  And earlier that year I went through a really bad breakup.  Boy was that a year, lol. 

Yeah,  that story was a very bad memory of mine but the silver lining (benefit) was learning how to prevent from associating with so many people in society.  People may look normal on the outside but there are a lot of very sick people out there so beware! 

I'm sorry about your Dad hating you.  ☹️ 

I'm sorry about happened to you with the handsy guy when you were 14 years old,  plying you with alcohol and your parents thinking it was hilarious.  I would not be amused and fail to see the humor.  ☹️ 😡

I actually agree with your mom about not saying "hi" to the 45 year old guy at the skate park.  Your mom teaching you to be polite was vague and she should've explained herself better.  Being polite is to people whom you trust in safe situations.  You do not have to greet random strangers.  There is a difference and perhaps you misunderstood the polite teachings given you were only 15 years old at the time. 

I agree, there are mixed messages and you won't fully learn how to navigate yourself safely and shrewdly until after you become an adult.  When you're younger,  you're very naive and don't know much about life and people yet.  In due time,  everything becomes a rude awakening indeed.  🤔 😒

Even if people don't show any red flags,  it's better to err on the side of caution and not be so trusting.  Better safe than sorry even if you're perceived as standoffish,  it's ok.  Better to remain standoffish,  wary and jaded than dead meat.  😢

I'm sorry about your NDE.  Consider yourself very fortunate and learned lesson as it taught you how to be safe and save yourself from this day forward.  The past was not all in vain.  Something valuable came out of it which was your key takeaway,  survival and a chance to have a better life from today and beyond.  I put a positive spin from a negative experience.

[Cherylyn]

6 hours ago, Lambert said:

That's what I try to do.  Keep my circle small and enjoy things for myself.  

Absolutely @Lambert 👍

[Cherylyn]

5 hours ago, Cynder said:

This is exactly it.  People blame victims because it makes them feel better.  "Oh, that girl got assaulted because she left the house looking cute.  It's her fault.  That will never happen to me because I know better."  Etc. 

These people on Reddit back when I posted about this years ago were acting like I should have been a psychic or something.  I should have known, etc.  Well if I had that kind of super power my life would have been really different because I wouldn't have associated with a lot of people.  I wouldn't have given my ex husband the time of day if I knew he was going to beat me up and screw around all the time, etc.   

And the people who blame abuse victims for not leaving...  Leaving an abusive relationship is really hard.  And abusers isolate their victims to make it hard even harder.  They control money, etc.  It's not as simple as just packing a bag and leaving. 

Random question... are you from Germany?  You don't have to answer if you don't want.  The mention of Oktoberfest made me wonder. 

@Cynder Whenever people blame victims,  it's a form of gaslighting, i.e., deflecting,  changing the subject,  twisting words so the victim is at fault,  minimizing the offense,  etc.  This ugly tactic is as old as time.  😠

Yes,  leaving an abusive relationship isn't always easy especially look at my poor mother saddled with her husband's debts,  didn't have financial independence back then and basically trapped with 3 kids in tow.  Her saving grace was when he mercifully died at a fairly young age.  Life was hard but she triumphed,  paid off $450,000 debts all by herself without help for anyone,  paid off her mortgage and secured her future.  She never remarried and remained fiercely independent to the hilt.  Later in life,  she achieved economic power. 

No,  I'm not from Germany.  I was born and raised in the US.  We have a huge population of German descendants and melting pot of other nationalities with various annual festivals,  food cultures and we frequent some of them at random.  However,  I've since only attended one Oktoberfest when I was 12 years old which was my first and  last. 

[Jibralta]

Wow, what an interesting experience! 

If I were in your shoes, I would be wondering the same: Why did he chat me up so much? Why didn't he kill me?

God, it could be anything. Some serial killers are meticulous planners, some are messy opportunists, and some are a mixture of both.

Maybe you didn't trigger him just quite right. Maybe you didn't have the exact flavor of vulnerability that he could successfully exploit.

Maybe he wasn't sure if he could overpower you....

Maybe he liked you and didn't feel like killing you (personality goes a long way lol).

On 8/7/2023 at 7:49 AM, Cynder said:

And for me this is something that has layers.  Because I've lived most of my life wishing I was dead.  And I have also lived most of my life feeling invisible and like I don't really matter to anyone.... I've found myself thinking the only way anyone will ever talk about me that way is if I die in some violent way, etc.

You've said this before and it's striking. I think it is something that's worth exploring in greater depth.

This also strikes me:

On 8/7/2023 at 5:41 PM, Cynder said:

It's hard to accept that I was probably being targeted for being disabled

I wonder why that is 'hard to accept?'

Is it also hard to accept that you were targeted for being female? That you were targeted for simply being alive?

I'm not sure if this is helpful, but after reading what you wrote I see two main ways that this experience has affected you:

First, having a friendship (or acquaintanceship) with a person who turns out to be a serial killer is a shocking thing. Ultimately, it's sort of a meaningless novelty. A great story. But it can shake you up.

Second, (and I think this is the more significant of the two) this experience has touched on some deep-seated self-image issues that come up again and again for you.