Red flag or just being honest

[Batya33]

Just now, eastcoastgal said:

Yes sure, blame it on me. It's impossible, it takes months, years to get to know what someone is really like...and even then you never REALLY know anyone.

I'm not blaming it on you. That's a copout and easier than actually reading what people are writing here. 

I'm in my mid 50s as is my husband.  Obviously all relationships are a risk but it's about balancing the risks.  I wouldn't risk seeing the person you mentioned again.  I did risk getting back together with my now husband/giving up my job/relocating 800 miles away from the city I'd lived in for 43 years to a city where I knew no one, while being a new mommy and unemployed/SAHM for the first time in my life. 

I didn't need to know the minutae of what he is really like - that can take years and years - for me I needed to know:  our values (family/religion/thoughtfulness/education/kindness, etc) and life goals aligned. 

We had mutual chemistry, mutual love, mutual respect, mutual trust.  I regarded him as a person of character and integrity in all the ways that mattered. I still do and I have known him a total of 20 plus years.  And I knew this -actually-early on -I think within a few months of dating him when we were in our late 20s I knew. 

I didn't have to REALLY know him - we're a couple -we're not the same person and we each have our private thoughts and personal stuff that maybe we don't even share with each other - because there shouldn't be meaningful secrets -and there aren't - but he's entitled to his privacy as am I.

  Last night he handed me his phone -which is not a daily thing at all -to show me a pic he took of our son and his friend.  A text popped up and it was one line -from our cousin - and I immediately said -oh I wasn't reading your texts (as I repeated what it said) -he brushed it off "oh we're texting about the game" - but it would never ever occur to me "I don't really know him so ..... hmmmm -maybe if I look through his phone I'll reassure myself he is loyal."  Never. 

Because I don't view people -or men - with the level of suspicion you do and I don't walk around thinking the sky will fall in either. If I did I wouldn't be married -to anyone - why take that risk if I viewed the world as you do -your skewed negative view?

When I realized I was ready to try to conceive -I was 40 -and it clicked for me that I was going to marry him and I was going to be 41 soonish - I told him.  (We'd talked at length about trying to conceive just not actual timing)  he said "if you get pregnant then will we get married earlier?"  I said -yes.  He didn't question me.  He didn't have to.  He had my word.  He had my love, my commitment, my loyalty. 

We were long distance so we hadn't yet figured out the right timing for marriage/my relocating.  But we intended to be married.  After I got pregnant we got engaged and planned our wedding for a few months later. 

He could have -according to your negative view -said oh ok nevermind -don't want to marry you.  Or I could have.  Because as you say "you never really know someone" - so -what -were we supposed to not try to fulfil our dreams of parenthood and marriage because of some notion that "well she says she'll marry me earlier if she gets pregnant and I don't want to be a single dad so since I can't guarantee I can trust her to marry me -- better use a condom."  I cannot imagine living life that way nor can I imagine raising my son to have that negative perspective or trying to prepare him for women who will view him with your level of toxic mistrust -it's toxic because it's based on negative generalizations about men. 

My son is a young teenager and since he's like 3 years old and started talking "for real" I've seen how thoughtful and kind he is to people and animals and plants.  To strangers and waiters and teachers and friends and his parents (well mostly) and his grandparents.  How generous he is with his money when he has spending money -giving to charity/treating a friend to a drink at the pool during a heatwave because I gave him a water bottle and juice box but his friend had nothing. 

He's no angel. Neither is my husband. Neither am I for sure.  We all have our flaws/quirks and we all make mistakes -it's a balance-but it can't be balanced with your toxic view of men.  Guilty till proven innocent? No thanks.  Questioning even for a second whether you should settle for a man who shared that disgusting story with you whether true or partly true or false -that's the really dangerous part of your world view.

 

 

[Seraphim]

24 minutes ago, eastcoastgal said:

Yes sure, blame it on me. It's impossible, it takes months, years to get to know what someone is really like...and even then you never REALLY know anyone.

So do you have friends ? Because you don’t REALLY know them either so should you have those ?

I have been with my husband since like 1988, I know him better than I know any human being except maybe our son. Then next I know my mother the best. Are you looking for something impossible? You will never know the inside workings of somebody’s mind all the time it’s just not possible people have their own inner thoughts that swirl around in their minds all day and they can’t possibly tell you them all and they may not want to, it doesn’t mean they are not good people ,not good partners, or anything else it just means that’s their private inner life . You can’t possibly say you tell people every thought that flows through your mind either. 
 

I can say I only ever found out one thing about my husband that was ever a surprise. And it wasn’t anything he himself did and it had nothing to do with me and it was before I met him. So no shocking skeletons just your average loving guy who wants to do well in life . 

[eastcoastgal]

55 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Questioning even for a second whether you should settle for a man who shared that disgusting story with you whether true or partly true or false -that's the really dangerous part of your world view.

 

 

How do I know what I should overlook and what I shouldn't? There's always something. An ex they are still in contact with, an off-colour comment, a suspicious text, a little white lie, gaps in a story... it's always something. It seems the higher my standards are, the more I level up ... the lower my chances are of anything working.
This guy just told me that my standards were too high. (I actually took it as a compliment). I am kind and thoughtful and patient to a point and I am very positive day to day despite these experiences.
You are very fortunate.

[eastcoastgal]

50 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I can say I only ever found out one thing about my husband that was ever a surprise. And it wasn’t anything he himself did and it had nothing to do with me and it was before I met him. So no shocking skeletons just your average loving guy who wants to do well in life . 

You are very fortunate. I am a loving person that wants to do well in life.... really that's all I want.

[MissCanuck]

1 minute ago, eastcoastgal said:

How do I know what I should overlook and what I shouldn't?

That's what posters here find troubling. You don't seem to have a baseline for recognizing even very indecent behaviour from men. 

 

[itsallgrand]

18 hours ago, eastcoastgal said:

Men are weak and helpless against temptation. Women are more calculating.

Despite what the bible says ... 🙂

Where did you get this idea? Wondering if it was something someone in your life believed and acted on?

Rooting out that bigotry around the sexes would probably help you more than anything in your quest to find someone lovely.

[Seraphim]

3 minutes ago, eastcoastgal said:

You are very fortunate. I am a loving person that wants to do well in life.... really that's all I want.

Then you have to stop looking at every man as a suspect . People are individuals. I was sexually assaulted by two individuals as a kid and as an adult, I have been stalked and harassed and sexually harassed many times. Do I blame ALL men. No. I married a man and raised a man. Individuals are responsible for deeds, not entire sectors of the population.

[eastcoastgal]

15 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

That's what posters here find troubling. You don't seem to have a baseline for recognizing even very indecent behaviour from men. 

 

I kicked this guy to the curb. I definitely recognize BAD behaviour. I am probably hyper vigilant and over compensating and the good ones get away. It makes me sad.

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, eastcoastgal said:

Yes sure, blame it on me. It's impossible, it takes months, years to get to know what someone is really like...and even then you never REALLY know anyone.

Did you read the article I linked?  There's a bit more to it.

But nevermind, I  can see you're not open to other ways of thinking other than 'all men suck.'

I find that sad but it's your life, so carry on and good luck.

 

 

[Jaunty]

2 hours ago, eastcoastgal said:

Yes sure, blame it on me. It's impossible, it takes months, years to get to know what someone is really like...and even then you never REALLY know anyone.

There is plenty you can know in a very short time - like the first time you meet a person.   Attitudes around sexism, racism, religious and political stances, can all be revealed by one sentence.   For a lot of things that's enough, no need to know any more.  

 

[boltnrun]

I know so many wonderful men. It's sad that you refuse to believe good men exist. 

[rainbowsandroses]

10 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I know so many wonderful men. It's sad that you refuse to believe good men exist. 

Agree. 

Or that she's at least 50% responsible for attracting such "horrible" men.  

"Like attracts like."

"We are who we attract."

NOT saying you're horrible OP, only that it goes deeper than believing all men suck or that there are no good men.

Meaning if you believe, truly believe, ALL men are bad, those are the men you will likely attract.

Positive energy attracts positive energy.

Negative energy attracts negative energy.

Think about it.

[Jaunty]

To take this in a different direction:  a man does not have to be a sociopathic loser to be "not a match" for you.   Besides not looking at men as generally "bad," it will help you to simply get some parameters for what you are looking for in a partner beyond "not a depraved bottomfeeder."   

You talk as if you are simply going to accept the "least of evils." 

I'm saying that there are plenty of great fellows out there who are not going to be a match for you either; not because they're bad or due to their specific flaws (which we all, men and women, have un abundance.)   Just because the two of you are not compatible.  

I think that you could benefit from some therapy to help you get through your generally negative perspective on men.  

 

[MissCanuck]

1 hour ago, eastcoastgal said:

I kicked this guy to the curb. I definitely recognize BAD behaviour. I am probably hyper vigilant and over compensating and the good ones get away. It makes me sad.

But you also questioned in this very thread if he is a good person and a good father. 

 

[eastcoastgal]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Positive energy attracts positive energy.

Negative energy attracts negative energy.

Think about it.

I fully believe this is not always true. Narcissists and sociopaths seek out people with positive energy, it's how they get their supply. And positive, good people seek out the opposite because they want to 'help' or 'save' them. Codependency.

Like attracts like ... yeah. Opposites attracts... also true.

 

[Jaunty]

Just now, eastcoastgal said:

I fully believe this is not always true. Narcissists and sociopaths seek out people with positive energy, it's how they get their supply. And positive, good people seek out the opposite because they want to 'help' or 'save' them. Codependency.

Like attracts like ... yeah. Opposites attracts... also true.

 

Well ... in your "opposites attract" examples you are talking about unhealthy people. Narcissists, sociopaths, and codependent people.   In that sense, it's still "like attracts like."  

How about "healthy attracts healthy"?  

Sure you can find examples of a healthy person who fell for a narcissist but with some age and experience even this possibility will decrease.   

[Sindy_0311]

On 8/1/2023 at 4:11 PM, eastcoastgal said:

If I keep walking away from every man that has had an impure thought about a teen, paid for sex with a prostitute, watched porn, etc ... I'll be alone forever. Because they ALL HAVE. And if they say no they are lying.

Are you saying that watching porn is immoral? And as far as I know, having sex with a prostitute is not something illegal or pervert... you cannot put is in the same basket as having views on a teen...

I guess your guy is seriously damaged because of sex abuse when he was young. He is sick (or at least didn't heal from it yet) this what perverts are in general, they are sick people. 

I was shocked about your opinion about men. I think these bad opinions usually result from past traumas.  It's true that men are often more sex driven than women, this just how their brain work, its biology, doesn't mean they are all perverts. Some would watch porn just to relax, escape and think about something else, some would go to prostitutes because they lack intimacy or affection... But these men are not perverts... 

Try to be more selective in your OLD process. I'm surprised you didn't sense something weird before actually meeting him... did you text together or had a call? how was the conversation prior to the date? how was his profile? what kind of fotos did he have ? I never met a man who said things like that on a first date!! hell 😱 I'm still shocked he told you that... 

[eastcoastgal]

33 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Try to be more selective in your OLD process. I'm surprised you didn't sense something weird before actually meeting him... did you text together or had a call? how was the conversation prior to the date? how was his profile? what kind of fotos did he have ? I never met a man who said things like that on a first date!! hell 😱 I'm still shocked he told you that... 

Trust me he is totally normal. ex military, retired, no other red flags. Photos were nice. Him in uniform, playing his guitar, etc. We had very nice chats prior to meeting, he seemed very courteous and kind. And he just blurted it out. Said he liked me and didn't want any secrets.

[eastcoastgal]

2 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I think that you could benefit from some therapy to help you get through your generally negative perspective on men.  

 

I've done therapy. 6 years of "oh that must have been very difficult for you..." $200 please.

No thanks

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, eastcoastgal said:

How do I know what I should overlook and what I shouldn't? There's always something. An ex they are still in contact with, an off-colour comment, a suspicious text, a little white lie, gaps in a story... it's always something. It seems the higher my standards are, the more I level up ... the lower my chances are of anything working.
This guy just told me that my standards were too high. (I actually took it as a compliment). I am kind and thoughtful and patient to a point and I am very positive day to day despite these experiences.
You are very fortunate.

I do feel fortunate but I had to work very hard over many years to accomplish my goals and stop getting in my own way.  I do personal work regularly -to be a good spouse and mom.  

You have to be the right person to find the right person.  Know what your values are, standards are and goals are and stick to them.  I wouldn't listen to a near stranger as to whether your standards are too high.  Never hurts to reevaluate your own standards -internally.  I do at times- check in with myself.  Or ask a trusted friend.  

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Jaunty said:

There is plenty you can know in a very short time - like the first time you meet a person.   Attitudes around sexism, racism, religious and political stances, can all be revealed by one sentence.   For a lot of things that's enough, no need to know any more.  

 

Or by how they interact with waitstaff.

[lostandhurt]

So there is a thing called having a bad picker and there is a thing called dating.

A bad picker is where you almost always pick the wrong guy and then hang onto the loser way to long.  This comes from you for some reason.

In this case it isn't a bad picker it is dating.  You did well because you picked up on his story and it did not sit well with you.  It takes a lot of frogs before you find your prince and ask the ladies here how many good looking seemingly great guys turned out to be frogs once they got to know them.

 Don't make his boasting about a 19 yr old wanting to bang him about you and if you have issues.  He made some remarkably idiotic remarks at your first meeting which caused you to take a pass on him.  Could be why he is single in the first place.  I wonder if his daughter had forgiven him yet?

 Be smart, if it feels wrong it probably is and pay attention to what others show you and tell you and you will be fine.

Dating is tough

Lost

[eastcoastgal]

11 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

You have to be the right person to find the right person.  Know what your values are, standards are and goals are and stick to them.  I wouldn't listen to a near stranger as to whether your standards are too high.  Never hurts to reevaluate your own standards -internally.  I do at times- check in with myself.  Or ask a trusted friend.  

I like this, thank you

[eastcoastgal]

9 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

Be smart, if it feels wrong it probably is and pay attention to what others show you and tell you and you will be fine.

Dating is tough

Lost

It's so hard to keep going. Dating at this age and time is brutal

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, eastcoastgal said:

It's so hard to keep going. Dating at this age and time is brutal

I found it brutal in the 1980s.  Nothing has changed because of dating sites and apps except maybe increased risks related to safety except in the 70s and 80s ,etc people went home with people they met at bars and had no cell phones or other ways to contact someone to get help etc.  I kept going only because I wanted marriage and family.  Otherwise I would not have bothered.