How do I stop feeling envious and angry at couples?

[WaywardKiwi]

Hey again,

Ita clear from your reaponses her that you are intent in dealing in generalisations and vaguery as opposed to dealing with objective facts and details. I understand, confronting reality would undermine your narrative. However, its a somewhat circular and franking boring conversation. So until you are willing to actually engage, Im out.

T

[1a1a]

On 7/5/2023 at 2:44 AM, P4nther said:

Women always have options.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

The option to get used for sex maybe 

[Jaunty]

36 minutes ago, 1a1a said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

The option to get used for sex maybe 

Well ... the MANOSPHERE thinks that that's a good option.  The guys who populate it would be thrilled to be used for sex.  Projection.

[Capricorn3]

3 hours ago, WaywardKiwi said:

 I understand, confronting reality would undermine your narrative. However, its a somewhat circular and franking boring conversation. So until you are willing to actually engage, Im out.

^ Indeed.  Very, very wise.

[boltnrun]

What would these "signs" be that would indicate interest from a woman?

[Jaunty]

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

What would these "signs" be that would indicate interest from a woman?

Perhaps flashing of the breasts?   That would be hard to overlook.

[1a1a]

A more constructive thought to contribute, how do you go making friends? Also how do you go striking up conversations with strangers?

The way you speak it sounds like you don’t have any women friends and it might help diffuse your sense of alienation and rejection if you can make some connections (with men and women).

 

This is no easy task also, it’ll will take just as much work and risk taking as looking for romance. Both tasks are worth undertaking though. As is the much lower stakes challenge of making a point of striking up conversations with and showing interest in the lives of new people you meet. 
 

 

[P4nther]

12 hours ago, bluecastle said:

Anyhow, if I'm following this correctly, here is the issue: You have never asked a woman out, or attempted to use dating sites to meet women, but are confident that you are "unwanted by every woman on the planet" because you have yet to register the "signal" women give off to show/prompt interest. As such, and as the years have passed, you have come to envy and despise anyone who is a relationship because you view them as a mirror to your condition, and are now looking for ways to address those toxic feelings brewing.  

Does that get to the nuts and bolts? 

I would prefer to say that I've never had the opportunity to ask a woman out, as they have never shown interest in me, but apart from that you're pretty much right.

11 hours ago, boltnrun said:

What happened the last time you attempted to have a conversation with or even speak to a woman? 

In what context? You will need to be a little more specific please.

[P4nther]

9 hours ago, WaywardKiwi said:

Hey again,

Ita clear from your reaponses her that you are intent in dealing in generalisations and vaguery as opposed to dealing with objective facts and details. I understand, confronting reality would undermine your narrative. However, its a somewhat circular and franking boring conversation. So until you are willing to actually engage, Im out.

T

Well, the objective facts are that I've never had a girlfriend, and if I was attractive, I would've had a girlfriend by now. There are PLENTY of men who bumble their way into relationships. In fact, I would say that the majority of them do so. I absolutely deny the assertion that men are all going around like James Bond wooing the pants off ladies, for the simple reason that 99% of men are completely unexceptional and unremarkable.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, P4nther said:

Well, the objective facts are that I've never had a girlfriend, and if I was attractive, I would've had a girlfriend by now. There are PLENTY of men who bumble their way into relationships.

Well no that's not true at all -a false assumption.  A man who is attractive (just like a woman who is sexy looking/attractive even assuming there is an objective standard) might in certain specific situations have an easier time attracting a woman in a specific environment (I declined dates or walked away from a man who seemed interested -  with very very handsome men who were single -sometimes after a first meet, sometimes before a first meet and sometimes in person).  

Just because it might come easier for certain types of people - extroverts/people who are of a certain age -meaning 20 somethings vs. 70 somethings - doesn't lead at all to the assumptions you are making about yourself.

Also what someone looks like might make it easier to get that first spark of interest, or easier to agree to a date in certain circumstances but a healthy relationship? With rare exception healthy long lasting relationships are not based on visual appearance.

I focused almost entirely on looks when I was a teenager/early 20s - those times when I was wanting to dance with a cute guy and maybe make out, when I went to a famous male stripper club and paid a dollar lol to kiss one of the dancers -I picked the absolute best looking one! (for a dollar!! 1980s),

And yes for sure when I broke an engagement at age 23 and met my friend's distant cousin who went out dancing/clubbing with us -we were all sober -I focused on him first and foremost because he was hot - and her other friend who actually was more interested in me was not as hot so I absolutely focused on looks.  I ended up with hottie for 3 years - and I also dated not hot briefly. 

Overall -I probably made the wrong choice for a variety of reasons including that hottie came out of the closet a year after he proposed to me,I said no and we broke up.  But at that point I was out of an engagement and Not Hot guy was simply too staid/solid for me.  So I actually did have in parts a really fun and sometimes excellent relationship with Hottie -and his looks were the first thing I noticed - but that didn't make it healthy.  Also we're still in touch. He's my age and hasn't been hot looking in awhile for health related reasons so it's also not a great idea to get into a relationship where the focus is inordinately on looks cause they fade.  

Overall when I was looking for a long term relationship which was most of the time I did not intensely focus on visual appearance at all. Chemistry/spark was essential.  Visual appearance is only one factor in that IMO.  Which is why I never based attraction on a photo on a dating site.

[boltnrun]

6 hours ago, P4nther said:

In what context? You will need to be a little more specific please.

In any social or public situation. Not a work colleague, supervisor or coworker. And not a server asking if you need any condiments to go with your meal. 

[bluecastle]

6 hours ago, P4nther said:

I would prefer to say that I've never had the opportunity to ask a woman out, as they have never shown interest in me,

Let's imagine I'm here asking you for advice about the following: I am finding myself consumed by anger at writers who are publishing books and articles—something no magazine or publisher has ever done for me. In our exchange you learn that I have never once submitted a word of writing to any outlet, because it's my belief that the people who are published are part of some kind of inside tract: academic connections, wealthy parents, the coddling tutelage of professors of the sort that eluded me, and so on. 

Would you find my narrative sound, as indisputable as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west? Or would you find it troubling given that I had never made a sincere attempt to do the thing I am so angry that others are out there doing? 

Anyhow, I get that your "preference" is to say you've never had the opportunity. I am also sincerely sorry that that's how you see things, and that, at least judging by this tread, there seems to be no room to turn the prism a few degrees in a different direction and question that perception. 

[P4nther]

4 hours ago, bluecastle said:

Let's imagine I'm here asking you for advice about the following: I am finding myself consumed by anger at writers who are publishing books and articles—something no magazine or publisher has ever done for me. In our exchange you learn that I have never once submitted a word of writing to any outlet, because it's my belief that the people who are published are part of some kind of inside tract: academic connections, wealthy parents, the coddling tutelage of professors of the sort that eluded me, and so on. 

Would you find my narrative sound, as indisputable as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west? Or would you find it troubling given that I had never made a sincere attempt to do the thing I am so angry that others are out there doing? 

Anyhow, I get that your "preference" is to say you've never had the opportunity. I am also sincerely sorry that that's how you see things, and that, at least judging by this tread, there seems to be no room to turn the prism a few degrees in a different direction and question that perception. 

While something of a clunky analogy, I would say that you were well within your rights to complain. There are many unappreciated artists out there whose work is never given the recognition it deserves, while all manner of talentless hacks succeed through sheer luck or nepotism. 

If no woman is willing to give me a chance despite all the efforts I've made to improve the hand I was dealt, then what other conclusion am I meant to reach?

[P4nther]

5 hours ago, boltnrun said:

In any social or public situation. Not a work colleague, supervisor or coworker. And not a server asking if you need any condiments to go with your meal. 

Honestly? The only example I can think of is not worth mentioning.

[boltnrun]

3 minutes ago, P4nther said:

Honestly? The only example I can think of is not worth mentioning.

So how can you conclude no woman would ever be interested in you?

You can't give examples of how you believe a woman shows interest, and you can't provide a single example of when you approached or even had a conversation with a woman.

It's like a scientist writing a report of an experiment with zero data to refer to. You can't draw a conclusion. 

[Jaunty]

21 minutes ago, P4nther said:

While something of a clunky analogy, I would say that you were well within your rights to complain.

Seriously?  The writer NEVER submitted anything for publication and they have a "right" to complain that they are not published?

You're just grasping at straws here, man.

And, its a very precise analogy.

[P4nther]

18 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

So how can you conclude no woman would ever be interested in you?

You can't give examples of how you believe a woman shows interest, and you can't provide a single example of when you approached or even had a conversation with a woman.

It's like a scientist writing a report of an experiment with zero data to refer to. You can't draw a conclusion. 

Women aren't interested in me. If they were, then one way or another, I would've had a girlfriend by now. It really is that simple. 

As for how women signal interest, this might be of interest to you: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/first-blush/201710/the-many-subtle-ways-women-signal-romantic-interest

[P4nther]

12 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Seriously?  The writer NEVER submitted anything for publication and they have a "right" to complain that they are not published?

You're just grasping at straws here, man.

And, its a very precise analogy.

No, it's not. Every single day I step outside, I am submitting myself for "publication".

[Jaunty]

Just now, P4nther said:

No, it's not. Every single day I step outside, I am submitting myself for "publication".

Oh.  Okay.  

You aren't willing to own your life or take any responsibility for yourself.  That must be terribly depressing, if you're over 11 years old.  I sincerely hope you're not, and that  you  grow a pair and man up at some point.  Otherwise - happy trolling.

[P4nther]

9 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Oh.  Okay.  

You aren't willing to own your life or take any responsibility for yourself.  That must be terribly depressing, if you're over 11 years old.  I sincerely hope you're not, and that  you  grow a pair and man up at some point.  Otherwise - happy trolling.

Ah yes, of course. When a man is struggling with loneliness and isolation, then it's okay to peddle sexist terms and play the responsibility card. 

[Batya33]

28 minutes ago, P4nther said:

No, it's not. Every single day I step outside, I am submitting myself for "publication".

No. That’s not how it works. Randomly it can happen that way for sure. Across a crowded room. But in my case I literally crossed a crowded room to greet the new employee who knew no one while the others did. Little did I know we’d be married 14 years, 5 weeks and 2 days later.  Had I not crossed the crowded room and simply shown up in the same room he was in we may never have had a conversation or met.  
Random connections can happen but a person who wants to date and wants a relationship can’t be passive with as I wrote rare exception. 

[jul-els]

On 7/2/2023 at 9:12 AM, P4nther said:

I've never had a girlfriend, I'm what you call "foreveralone", women are not interested in me no matter what steps I take to better myself. Every waking moment is unbearable for me, knowing that I am unwanted by every woman on the planet. But I have noticed lately that whenever I see couples irl, I am filled with hatred, envy, and even violent urges. I see these guys, many of them unremarkable and unexceptional, and wonder why can't I have what they have? It all feels so senselessly cruel and unfair. Why should they get to enjoy all the benefits of a relationship while I have to rot in loneliness and misery? 😔

It’s your my mindset. Envy and spite is seen as unattractive by anyone you could potentially date, and it will repel them.

If you have unresolved emotional issues when it comes to romance, you’ll have to discover what they are and then resolve and make peace with them before you’ll be ready for the love life you want. 

[P4nther]

10 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

...but a person who wants to date and wants a relationship can’t be passive with as I wrote rare exception. 

I'm only reduced to being passive because women do not find me attractive.

[P4nther]

10 minutes ago, jul-els said:

It’s your my mindset. Envy and spite is seen as unattractive by anyone you could potentially date, and it will repel them.

I agree with you in principle, but women never even give me a chance, so they would never know that I'm envious and spiteful to begin with.

And if your answer to that is "people can sense these things" then this just opens a whole new can of worms, because there are extremely dangerous, violent men who are successful with women. 

[jul-els]

Just now, P4nther said:

I agree with you in principle, but women never even give me a chance, so they would never know that I'm envious and spiteful to begin with.

And if your answer to that is "people can sense these things" then this just opens a whole new can of worms, because there are extremely dangerous, violent men who are successful with women. 

It’s about the energy you give to others. They can feel it. People who are successful with the opposite sex know how to give the energy necessary to make themselves attractive or interesting to other people. Whether or not they’re good people themselves has nothing to do with it. 

I assume you’re not a dishonest or deceptive person, so if that’s the case, then that’s something you have going in your favor. You just need to learn how to give the same energy to others that you want to receive.