I called CPS on my friends :(

[Cherylyn]

@Batya33  Each case is different. 

As for OP @MsAin1st.  She did the right thing by contacting CPS directly.  She was the protective voice for the child.  I would've done the same thing.  I wouldn't have spoken to the parents first either by giving them a heads up or advanced warning.    It's time for the authorities to step in and step up for the child's safety.  I don't believe in being the middle person at all.  Let CPS or law enforcement take action so the child's parents will know they are being closely monitored.  If it's enough to spook them to improve their parenting and know they're scrutinized by law enforcement / CPS,  then so be it.

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

@Batya33  Each case is different. 

As for OP @MsAin1st.  She did the right thing by contacting CPS directly.  She was the protective voice for the child.  I would've done the same thing.  I wouldn't have spoken to the parents first either by giving them a heads up or advanced warning.    It's time for the authorities to step in and step up for the child's safety.  I don't believe in being the middle person at all.  Let CPS or law enforcement take action so the child's parents will know they are being closely monitored.  If it's enough to spook them to improve their parenting and know they're scrutinized by law enforcement / CPS,  then so be it.

Yes every case is different.  I wrote that. There is room here IMO for different approaches that all protect the child equally in these particular circumstances.  I would disagree with doing nothing as in "it's a private matter" and in this case I'd weigh the relationship of me to the parents and my role in the parents' lives and likely would have said something first or said something at the time I learned about the initial situation of the husband throwing things -I would have said -which the OP chose not to (again judgment) "oh he is - so what are you going to do to protect the child - would you be comfortable reporting him? do you want me to look into resources?"  I'm not judging the OP for waiting just making it very clear there is not one way to judge or approach this that equally protects the child.

 

[Tinydance]

I think that definitely your heart was in the right place and I would have been worried about a child if they were abused too. Especially in this case since it's your close friend, of course you were concerned and wanted to help. Where I think you went wrong is that you should have probably taken a different approach. 

I'm not sure if you know it but there's a TV series on Netflix called "Maid". It's a really good show and very eye opening because it deals with domestic violence. It's also quite realistic and shows you how women in domestic violence situations behave and how difficult it is for them to leave the situation.

In some cases they either feel powerless because the abuser psychologically controls them, and/or because the abuser has alienated them from any friends or family and controls all the finances. For example, in the TV series the young woman main character didn't finish university or get any qualifications because she got pregnant with her daughter by accident. So in her relationship it's only her abusive boyfriend who works and she wasa stay at home mother. She runs away from him but she actually has nowhere else to go because she has no money. At one point she ends up in a women's shelter and becomes friends with another young woman with a child there. And she's really supportive to that woman and says that's great she finally left her ex, etc. Then one day the woman leaves and they lose touch. One time she runs into that friend in the street and the friend is back with her abusive ex. She approaches the woman happily but the guy has a hold on her arm. And the woman goes: "Sorry I don't know you, I gotta go." So basically they show how much control the abuser has over the victim.

The thing is that it's actually not just as easy as telling the victim: "Why can't you just leave, it's so obvious you're being abused." or calling Child Protective Services. They might have Stockholm Syndrome and actually be very attached to the abusive partner or they're brainwashed and gaslighted into thinking the abuser is actually good and it's them who is the problem. 

I understand you probably thought that protecting the child was urgent so that's why you called CPS. What I think you should have done is talk to your friend first and ask more questions. You could have shown concern and just acted supportive and said: "I'm here for you, you can tell me anything, you can tell me what's going on." And you could have encouraged her to call police or CPS herself.

Often the abuser actually threatens the victim and says: "If you tell anyone, I'll do XYZ". So your friend might have freaked out that he's going to "punish" her because you called child protective services. Also she could be scared that her son will actually be taken away from her and she sees that as that you did that to her.

There should be family violence services and you could have called the service and talked to them and got advice. Then maybe they could have given your friend a call and provided her with support and resources. E.g. Maybe she has nowhere else to go and that's why she was scared to call police etc. because if she left she'd be out on the street. The social services could help her with maybe somewhere to stay, some food vouchers, things like that. Then she might be more set up to actually leave him. 

[Tinydance]

8 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

@Batya33  Each case is different. 

As for OP @MsAin1st.  She did the right thing by contacting CPS directly.  She was the protective voice for the child.  I would've done the same thing.  I wouldn't have spoken to the parents first either by giving them a heads up or advanced warning.    It's time for the authorities to step in and step up for the child's safety.  I don't believe in being the middle person at all.  Let CPS or law enforcement take action so the child's parents will know they are being closely monitored.  If it's enough to spook them to improve their parenting and know they're scrutinized by law enforcement / CPS,  then so be it.

I think that depends as to whether calling CPS straight away without any discussion with the friend would actually end the friendship or at least cause problems in the friendship. The first step should probably be talking to the friend immediately and encouraging HER to call. By calling CPS straight away you actually don't keep the friend in the loop at all and give her no choice. Even if it needs to be done but the friend should be informed first that you want to do it and also allowed to talk about it.

For example, most psychologists and psychiatrists let you know at the start that what you say to them is confidential. Except in cases where you're at risk of harm to yourself or others. So for example if you're suicidal, they might say to you: "I'm sorry but I'm going to have to call your husband/wife/mother/etc. to let them know you want to hurt yourself." They wouldn't usually just call someone behind your back and not tell you they did it.

[Cherylyn]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes every case is different.  I wrote that. There is room here IMO for different approaches that all protect the child equally in these particular circumstances.  I would disagree with doing nothing as in "it's a private matter" and in this case I'd weigh the relationship of me to the parents and my role in the parents' lives and likely would have said something first or said something at the time I learned about the initial situation of the husband throwing things -I would have said -which the OP chose not to (again judgment) "oh he is - so what are you going to do to protect the child - would you be comfortable reporting him? do you want me to look into resources?"  I'm not judging the OP for waiting just making it very clear there is not one way to judge or approach this that equally protects the child.

 

Well, not the same story but when my husband was a little boy,  a group of bullies took him to the woods and commanded him to crouch down as they pelted him with rocks and sticks to the point of injuring him; not just bruises either.   My husband told his mother upon returning home.  Outraged,  my MIL (mother-in-law) contacted the police and the police immediately rang the bullies' houses doorbells one by one.  The police spoke with each parent.  MIL did not need to get involved.  She did not have a talk with any of the parents.  She let the police do all the talking and it worked wonders.  Those bullies never bothered my husband ever again.  

It can get messy when parents intervene and predictably, each side will become defensive, confrontational or feel threatened.  It has the propensity of turning ugly even if there are good intentions to soften the dialogue before authorities are contacted.  This is why in many cases,  it's better to contact CPS / law enforcement directly and let them handle it.  There is a fine line between meddling,  concern,  advanced notice,  intervening,  interfering and those approaches.  This is why  is CPS / law enforcement exists in the first place.  They're professionally equipped for these types of domestic violence / child abuse type cases.  

[boltnrun]

I wouldn't care one bit about the "friendship".  Give abusive parents a heads up and they'll have a chance to clean up, threaten the child not to say anything and force them to memorize a cover story ("tell them you fell") and get their stories straight.

I know someone who got CPS called on her.  She was using meth in her children's presence.  Her excuse was "I need it to get up early with the kids".  Bull.  She had to provide a urine sample, which came up dirty.  She was then required to submit to monthly urine tests for a full year to prove she wasn't using.  If she'd gotten a heads up from the person ahead of time she could have stopped using before CPS showed up and possibly even used a "cleanse" (although since I don't use drugs I don't know if those work for meth).  Unfortunately once the year was up she went right back to using.  She even told me "tomorrow's my last pee test!" excitedly because it meant she could go back to using.  Her kids weren't removed from her home because they weren't being physically abused.  

As someone who was abused and no adult stepped in to help me, I am very sensitive to cases of alleged abuse.  I'm glad you stepped in to protect the child.

[Cherylyn]

The problem with giving the parents a heads up is that they'll prepare themselves to become defensive and give excuses.  The strategy is not to give them preparation to become defensive and argumentative.  Stealth,  speed and surprise is highly effective which CPS / law enforcement are professional experts at. 

[Cherylyn]

13 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I wouldn't care one bit about the "friendship".  Give abusive parents a heads up and they'll have a chance to clean up, threaten the child not to say anything and force them to memorize a cover story ("tell them you fell") and get their stories straight.

I know someone who got CPS called on her.  She was using meth in her children's presence.  Her excuse was "I need it to get up early with the kids".  Bull.  She had to provide a urine sample, which came up dirty.  She was then required to submit to monthly urine tests for a full year to prove she wasn't using.  If she'd gotten a heads up from the person ahead of time she could have stopped using before CPS showed up and possibly even used a "cleanse" (although since I don't use drugs I don't know if those work for meth).  Unfortunately once the year was up she went right back to using.  She even told me "tomorrow's my last pee test!" excitedly because it meant she could go back to using.  Her kids weren't removed from her home because they weren't being physically abused.  

As someone who was abused and no adult stepped in to help me, I am very sensitive to cases of alleged abuse.  I'm glad you stepped in to protect the child.

Amen @boltnrun.  My parents had a violent streak.  I wish someone would've called CPS / law enforcement on them.  I would've been better for it to this day. 

Had someone approached my parents in advance,  they would've been better prepared to become very defensive,  dispense convenient excuses,  confrontational and / or threaten any potential snitch.  I didn't want to go here but this very bad memory of mine drums up a lot of pain.  Many times, the authorities need to be called to step up for the child because obviously the parents are failing miserably. 

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

The problem with giving the parents a heads up is that they'll prepare themselves to become defensive and give excuses.  The strategy is not to give them preparation to become defensive and argumentative.  Stealth,  speed and surprise is highly effective which CPS / law enforcement are professional experts at. 

Well as I said, it really depends whether you are prepared that the friendship might end. I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do but it actually is very likely that the person will become defensive and angry. And either distance themselves or end the friendship all together. I mean it actually is obvious that likely they'll be freaking out that their child will be removed and they will see you as the enemy. I'm just saying that's very likely to happen and it's just something to be prepared for because I think that would be a common reaction.

[Cherylyn]

Just now, Tinydance said:

Well as I said, it really depends whether you are prepared that the friendship might end. I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do but it actually is very likely that the person will become defensive and angry. And either distance themselves or end the friendship all together. I mean it actually is obvious that likely they'll be freaking out that their child will be removed and they will see you as the enemy. I'm just saying that's very likely to happen and it's just something to be prepared for because I think that would be a common reaction.

The friendship is worth discarding for the child's safety which is tantamount.  It's worth the tradeoff.   The friendship be d _______.  I wouldn't want to be friends with parents like that.  If anything,  all my former respect and admiration for them went down the drain in a nanosecond.  If I'm seen as an enemy,  I don't care. 

[MsAin1st]

I have talked to her about it before. I’ve suggested she leave or get some kind of help. (I did post this but sometimes I think replies might get overlooked in the sea of text). My parents have a place she & kiddo could temporarily stay too, she knows this. She makes excuses for his behaviors and says things like  “he doesn’t mean to” be rough. Well yeah, people don’t “mean to be rough” & then kids end up dead. 😞
Little Dude is 5, I work with 5 year old. They can be annoying, impulsive & want lots of attention. I get that, but leaving marks on a child is not OK. 

[Cherylyn]

Just now, MsAin1st said:

I have talked to her about it before. I’ve suggested she leave or get some kind of help. (I did post this but sometimes I think replies might get overlooked in the sea of text). My parents have a place she & kiddo could temporarily stay too, she knows this. She makes excuses for his behaviors and says things like  “he doesn’t mean to” be rough. Well yeah, people don’t “mean to be rough” & then kids end up dead. 😞
Little Dude is 5, I work with 5 year old. They can be annoying, impulsive & want lots of attention. I get that, but leaving marks on a child is not OK. 

Excuses.  Excuses are typical.  Or, there are other typical responses such as defensiveness,  confrontation,  threats to whoever will have the inclination to contact CPS / law enforcement.  Cut through all that by contacting the authorities.  I commend you for taking prompt action, @MsAin1st.

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, MsAin1st said:

I have talked to her about it before. I’ve suggested she leave or get some kind of help. (I did post this but sometimes I think replies might get overlooked in the sea of text). My parents have a place she & kiddo could temporarily stay too, she knows this. She makes excuses for his behaviors and says things like  “he doesn’t mean to” be rough. Well yeah, people don’t “mean to be rough” & then kids end up dead. 😞
Little Dude is 5, I work with 5 year old. They can be annoying, impulsive & want lots of attention. I get that, but leaving marks on a child is not OK. 

Yes absolutely it's not OK. I think that now that you actually have called CPS, that part has been taken care of. I think you're doing everything right to be a supportive friend and show your friend that she DOES have people to turn to and DOES have somewhere to go. I think it's very important to show her she's not alone and she can talk to you anytime and things like that. You could send her some links to family violence services or send her some resources about being with an abuser. Like, for example, if she reads the document and it's describing abuser behaviours, there's a chance she might think: "Wait a minute, my partner actually does that. And he says he did it because I did something bad but here it says that's how abusers behave." You know what I mean? Or you could call a family violence social service and ask them to give her a call or at least send her an E-mail or something. Just say to her: "I'm not trying to control your life but I'm just really concerned. Just have a chat to the support service, just see what they can do for you, they just trying to  help."

[MsAin1st]

10 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Yes absolutely it's not OK. I think that now that you actually have called CPS, that part has been taken care of. I think you're doing everything right to be a supportive friend and show your friend that she DOES have people to turn to and DOES have somewhere to go. I think it's very important to show her she's not alone and she can talk to you anytime and things like that. You could send her some links to family violence services or send her some resources about being with an abuser. Like, for example, if she reads the document and it's describing abuser behaviours, there's a chance she might think: "Wait a minute, my partner actually does that. And he says he did it because I did something bad but here it says that's how abusers behave." You know what I mean? Or you could call a family violence social service and ask them to give her a call or at least send her an E-mail or something. Just say to her: "I'm not trying to control your life but I'm just really concerned. Just have a chat to the support service, just see what they can do for you, they just trying to  help."

Wonderful advice. She’s blocked my texts but I’ can send them via email. 

[boltnrun]

The fact that she's defending the abuser instead of putting the safety and welfare of her child first is extremely concerning.  I understand, she would have to leave him and be a single mother, but if that's what it takes to keep her children safe then so be it.  Instead she's choosing to keep her child in harm's way.

I believe you did the right thing.

[Batya33]

31 minutes ago, MsAin1st said:

I have talked to her about it before. I’ve suggested she leave or get some kind of help. (I did post this but sometimes I think replies might get overlooked in the sea of text). My parents have a place she & kiddo could temporarily stay too, she knows this. She makes excuses for his behaviors and says things like  “he doesn’t mean to” be rough. Well yeah, people don’t “mean to be rough” & then kids end up dead. 😞
Little Dude is 5, I work with 5 year old. They can be annoying, impulsive & want lots of attention. I get that, but leaving marks on a child is not OK. 

Yes five year olds act like five year olds!  I didn't see where you affirmatively advised her to leave or told her about an alternative -that is extremely thoughtful and generous of you and your parents!

I absolutely would not care at all about losing the friendship -as I wrote even if you'd spoken to her first about the handprint -you likely would have lost the friendship, I'm sorry! 

Also it's one thing to play "too rough" with a child - like the whole pillow fight/play wrestling where someone ends up getting hurt or even tickling a child who doesn't like to be tickled (my son -always hated it -and I 100% respect that about him, I never do it and at times have told others not to either) - and another to affirmatively strike a child and dismiss it as "too rough" - striking a child out of anger is wrong IMO.  Being too rough to get a child out of a dangerous situation -child runs into the street impulsively - adult chases, grabs child away to avoid him getting hit by a car, and the grab is "rough" is different. 

And -the child I believe experiences it that way - the child knows when the "rough" is an accident like in a pillow fight -and/or done to protect him -when the restraint (like the kids with leashes in airports) is not done abusively but protectively.  

I think then you did forewarn her and -then there is something really odd here.  So - child had an obvious handprint -and child was left with you and your bf -I mean -she didn't know he had this handprint on his body? Didn't she know you'd see it?? And she already knew you were concerned about the home environment/dad's treatment... so odd!

[boltnrun]

I remember many years ago there was one of those investigative TV programs that had a story about a very small boy who was sadly being abused by his parents.  The parents would frequently let him visit his grandparents (the mother's parents) and they would drop him off with bruises and welts.  The grandparents were heartbroken, but they struggled between their loyalty to their daughter and their grandson's safety.  The last time they saw him his parents had dropped him off with his face covered with bruises.  The grandparents took him out for ice cream and they cried on the program while describing how the little boy could hardly open his mouth to eat his ice cream.

The little boy ended up being beaten to death by his parents.  They punched him in the stomach so hard it ruptured his colon.

The grandparents were wracked with guilt, as they should have been!  Instead of protecting the child they chose to protect their daughter.  I remember my mother sobbing as she told me about this program.  She was heartbroken for the poor little boy.

Too many times people keep quiet because they don't want to interfere, they think it's none of their business or they fear the parents will get angry.  And the results of inaction can end up being tragic.

I applaud you for reporting the parents and for putting the child's safety above your friendship with his mother who seems to be fine with keeping her child in an abusive environment.  

And sorry, but there's nothing a five year old can do that justifies abuse.  

[Seraphim]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

I wouldn't care one bit about the "friendship".  Give abusive parents a heads up and they'll have a chance to clean up, threaten the child not to say anything and force them to memorize a cover story ("tell them you fell") and get their stories straight.

I know someone who got CPS called on her.  She was using meth in her children's presence.  Her excuse was "I need it to get up early with the kids".  Bull.  She had to provide a urine sample, which came up dirty.  She was then required to submit to monthly urine tests for a full year to prove she wasn't using.  If she'd gotten a heads up from the person ahead of time she could have stopped using before CPS showed up and possibly even used a "cleanse" (although since I don't use drugs I don't know if those work for meth).  Unfortunately once the year was up she went right back to using.  She even told me "tomorrow's my last pee test!" excitedly because it meant she could go back to using.  Her kids weren't removed from her home because they weren't being physically abused.  

As someone who was abused and no adult stepped in to help me, I am very sensitive to cases of alleged abuse.  I'm glad you stepped in to protect the child.

Agreed. I wish My abuse had been reported would have saved me a lot of heartache. 

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, MsAin1st said:

 she figured out it was me who called CPS. She told me I betrayed her trust.

Sorry this is happening. You did the right thing. They'll do an investigation.

Does he beat her too? Abuse often escalates. All you can do is be there. She knows how to reach you.

[Tinydance]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

I remember many years ago there was one of those investigative TV programs that had a story about a very small boy who was sadly being abused by his parents.  The parents would frequently let him visit his grandparents (the mother's parents) and they would drop him off with bruises and welts.  The grandparents were heartbroken, but they struggled between their loyalty to their daughter and their grandson's safety.  The last time they saw him his parents had dropped him off with his face covered with bruises.  The grandparents took him out for ice cream and they cried on the program while describing how the little boy could hardly open his mouth to eat his ice cream.

The little boy ended up being beaten to death by his parents.  They punched him in the stomach so hard it ruptured his colon.

The grandparents were wracked with guilt, as they should have been!  Instead of protecting the child they chose to protect their daughter.  I remember my mother sobbing as she told me about this program.  She was heartbroken for the poor little boy.

Too many times people keep quiet because they don't want to interfere, they think it's none of their business or they fear the parents will get angry.  And the results of inaction can end up being tragic.

I applaud you for reporting the parents and for putting the child's safety above your friendship with his mother who seems to be fine with keeping her child in an abusive environment.  

And sorry, but there's nothing a five year old can do that justifies abuse.  

So sad, I'm tearing up myself  😞

[Tinydance]

On another note I really recommend the TV series Maid, it's a great show and gives so much insight into domestic violence. I actually feel like watching it again.

[Seraphim]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

I remember many years ago there was one of those investigative TV programs that had a story about a very small boy who was sadly being abused by his parents.  The parents would frequently let him visit his grandparents (the mother's parents) and they would drop him off with bruises and welts.  The grandparents were heartbroken, but they struggled between their loyalty to their daughter and their grandson's safety.  The last time they saw him his parents had dropped him off with his face covered with bruises.  The grandparents took him out for ice cream and they cried on the program while describing how the little boy could hardly open his mouth to eat his ice cream.

The little boy ended up being beaten to death by his parents.  They punched him in the stomach so hard it ruptured his colon.

The grandparents were wracked with guilt, as they should have been!  Instead of protecting the child they chose to protect their daughter.  I remember my mother sobbing as she told me about this program.  She was heartbroken for the poor little boy.

Too many times people keep quiet because they don't want to interfere, they think it's none of their business or they fear the parents will get angry.  And the results of inaction can end up being tragic.

I applaud you for reporting the parents and for putting the child's safety above your friendship with his mother who seems to be fine with keeping her child in an abusive environment.  

And sorry, but there's nothing a five year old can do that justifies abuse.  

Absolutely, child abuse is everyone’s business and should be reported no matter the relationship or loyalty. 

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, MsAin1st said:

. She’s blocked my texts but I’ can send them via email. 

For now, leave her alone and let the dust settle. The social workers will handle it from there. You reported alleged abuse and that's all you can do.

However please step back now. You never know what happens behind closed doors with a volatile abuser and he could take his wrath out on her. She knows how to reach you, if she needs or wants to.

[Graystation108]

I'm so sorry that happened. You did the right thing, but I would've talked to the friend first. Since it looks like she's shrugging off her husband's actions like it's no big deal, it's unlikely that she'll do anything about it once it escalates. Her priority should be her own baby, NOT covering up or enabling her husband's actions. I would just expect that you guys will never be friends again, but you did what you had to do to protect their child, and I think that's worth any price you had to pay in regards to the friendship. It's much better to bring this into light so it can be addressed early, rather than you not saying anything and risk the dad beating his child to death

[Cherylyn]

Sacrificing the friendship is worth protecting the child first and foremost. 

In so many cases in life,  there will always be sacrifices.  It's a different story for this instance but there were many times when I had to sacrifice various people in my life to either protect a person,  protect myself and protect my loved ones for so many reasons.  A lot of scenarios in life will come at such a dear cost and it was worth the price. 

Sometimes,  it feels like an initial loss but I always look at the big picture and the greater good.  Also,  it's the principle of the matter. 

Once respect,  trust and former admiration was lost for a person,  there is nothing left to recapture.  The relationship is completely dead forever.   This comes in all forms under the realm of abuse mental and physical,  either or both.