Was this second guy a red flag from the start?

[Mick17]

Aloha eNA, I could use some honest thoughts and advice on this early dating situation that fizzled out. I've been trying steadily in the local dating scene mainly online. I'm looking for areas of improvement.

I was talking with a lady (35, let's call her M) that I matched with online for over a month before we could meet up for a date. We had different work schedules and I was traveling out of the country. The conversations were good online and got better when we met in person about two weeks ago. The first date was great and we followed up with a second date a week later which also went well. M then got tied up with a continuing work commitment that requires her to work long shift hours for two weeks straight.

The texting/calling started decreasing over the week following date #2. The busy work schedule probably contributes to that, but M also sent me a message yesterday saying that she was spending more time with a male coworker during this period. They are already good friends on the same shift and have known each other for almost a year. I have known about him for a couple weeks. At the first date, M was open about how the friend had previously tried to date her a few months ago, but she held back because the guy was still fresh from a recent divorce. I thought this was prudent of her to not get involved with him too soon. It seemed like he would not be an issue for us. However, this past week the friend asked M again for a chance to work things out between them. She said he's so easy to get along with it's just natural, and that she likes him. When I called to clarify, M let me know that she may try and see him when the opportunity comes. I asked if she still wanted to see me for a third date but it was evident that she is no longer interested and moving on. It was very frank and honest but seemed like an abrupt end to a promising relationship between us.

I'm worried that I did not signal enough attraction to her during the second date. I'm shy when it comes to becoming physical, not because I don't like it, but that I am really worried about coming off as needy too quickly. The first date went well and we exchanged hugs at the end. By the second date, we were really hitting it off, but we spent much of it outdoors hiking and at the beach, and I didn't find a good moment to share a kiss. We were flirty and touchy but no kiss initiated from either side. By the end of the 2nd date, we said our goodbyes and hugged, and M had to return home to finish online coursework. It felt like a missed opportunity on my part.

Is it possible that I didn't escalate enough on the 2nd date to build more attraction and prevent this? Or does it seem more likely a case of her going with someone she knows longer and feels more attracted to? 

[Cherylyn]

No, it wasn't your fault.  There's nothing wrong with moving slowly and not rushing into physical contact.  Never change who you are and what your comfort zone is.  In fact,  moving slowly and gradually actually puts most women's minds at ease.  They too want to get to know you better and not just superficial chit chat either.  They want to take time to observe your personality and character more thoroughly before hugs and kisses.  I don't represent all women but I speak as a lady and what I would've preferred had I remained in the dating phase.  (I'm married with sons.)

Even though your correspondence online and the date went well,  I'm sorry,  she became distracted, preoccupied with her colleague and lost interest in you.  She's no longer serious about you so you need to return the favor by moving on.  Don't contact her anymore.  It's over. 

 

[smackie9]

There was nothing you could have done to changed to outcome. That's what dating is all about...trying one on for size. Lots of people go on a second date to determine whether the chemistry is there. Obviously it wasn't for her. 

[bluecastle]

13 minutes ago, Mick17 said:

At the first date, M was open about how the friend had previously tried to date her a few months ago, but she held back because the guy was still fresh from a recent divorce.

Generally speaking, when someone is choosing to spend their first date with you talking about another man who is pursuing her and who she is interested in—well, I'd say that's the moment to fold up the tent and search for better soil. 

In other words, this has nothing to do with you, what you did or didn't do, and everything to do with her being into him. Perhaps she thought and/or hoped, as humans often do, that meeting a new person would zap this dude out of her system. Or perhaps she...really, it's not worth examining. 

Most people we go on dates with will go nowhere. That's just the fact of it: part of the fun, part of the agony. Dust off and keep doing what you're doing.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Mick17 said:

Is it possible that I didn't escalate enough on the 2nd date to build more attraction and prevent this? Or does it seem more likely a case of her going with someone she knows longer and feels more attracted to? 

Sorry this happened. Unfortunately, even after a couple of great dates things can fizzle, especially with conflicting schedules. Yes it's a red flag that she is involved with someone else, even if it's just an excuse.

You can't "build attraction", it's either there or not. Also, "escalating" is a pickup artist myth. Either they are interested, attracted and ready, willing and able to date you...or not. Sadly this was simply not the case her.

 Delete and block her so you can focus on other women. You'll need a thick skin and you'll need to not take anything personally with online dating. Just move forward it things aren't happening with someone.

[Mick17]

1 hour ago, bluecastle said:

Generally speaking, when someone is choosing to spend their first date with you talking about another man who is pursuing her and who she is interested in—well, I'd say that's the moment to fold up the tent and search for better soil.

You’re right. This got my spidey senses tingling and I should have taken note earlier. I think she honestly wanted to form a new connection but just wasn’t ready 

[Andrina]

4 hours ago, Mick17 said:

At the first date, M was open about how the friend had previously tried to date her a few months ago, but she held back because the guy was still fresh from a recent divorce. I thought this was prudent of her to not get involved with him too soon. It seemed like he would not be an issue for us. However, this past week the friend asked M again for a chance to work things out between them. She said he's so easy to get along with it's just natural, and that she likes him. When I called to clarify, M let me know that she may try and see him when the opportunity comes. I asked if she still wanted to see me for a third date but it was evident that she is no longer interested

I can't even believe you wanted to go on a 3rd date after even one discussion about another man. Her attractive looks likely had you keeping rose-colored glasses on. 

It's really okay if people like to multi-date until becoming exclusive with someone and it's best to have a don't ask, don't tell policy.

But in her case, she was never really that into you, and treating you more like a friend she was having an outing with and chatting about the guy she has a crush on. Because unless a woman is a clueless dolt, if she meets a guy she's wowed by and wants more dates with, she's not going to risk losing out on that opportunity to talk about the other guy orbiting around her at work.

You were a fun distraction when she had no other plans at the moment, and that's not fair to you. She's no loss. This now leaves you free to find someone worthy of you. I know when I did OLD, I went through a lot of crappy dating experiences too. Eventually, I did meet the right guy and we've been happily married for 11 years. Good luck!

 

[Mick17]

3 hours ago, Andrina said:

But in her case, she was never really that into you, and treating you more like a friend she was having an outing with and chatting about the guy she has a crush on. Because unless a woman is a clueless dolt, if she meets a guy she's wowed by and wants more dates with, she's not going to risk losing out on that opportunity to talk about the other guy orbiting around her at work.

I appreciate the insight! Just to be clear, she did not specifically talk about this guy with rosy glasses, but he came up quite a bit. When I asked more about her friend, she opened up about how they tried to start something in the past but she held off as I described. I do think she was interested in me, but perhaps more as a novel interest without realizing it. However, she did speak about this guy a lot, more than I was comfortable with.

[Mick17]

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You can't "build attraction", it's either there or not. Also, "escalating" is a pickup artist myth. Either they are interested, attracted and ready, willing and able to date you...or not. Sadly this was simply not the case her.

You nailed it on the head. I need to stop listening to crappy pickup artist advice and feel things out naturally.

[MissCanuck]

3 hours ago, Mick17 said:

You nailed it on the head. I need to stop listening to crappy pickup artist advice and feel things out naturally.

Good idea. There is no need to "signal attraction" when someone is naturally attracted to you. That mutual attraction will come through naturally. Ignore the lame PUA tips. They are irrelevant here anyway, because she was already interested in this other man. 

13 hours ago, Mick17 said:

M was open about how the friend had previously tried to date her a few months ago, but she held back because the guy was still fresh from a recent divorce. I thought this was prudent of her

This was a red flag that you missed. The only reason she didn't go out with him was because he was too recently single - not because she isn't interested. That was your clue that she was biding her time until he was further away from his break-up, and then she would date him. 

I'm sorry. This one was out of your hands, so try not to be too hard on yourself. 

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Mick17 said:

 However, she did speak about this guy a lot, more than I was comfortable with.

Unfortunately there are people out there who think dating is free therapy and the poor soul sitting across the table is a captive audience for their problems and emotion dump. She's one of them.

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, Mick17 said:

I appreciate the insight! Just to be clear, she did not specifically talk about this guy with rosy glasses, but he came up quite a bit. When I asked more about her friend, she opened up about how they tried to start something in the past but she held off as I described. I do think she was interested in me, but perhaps more as a novel interest without realizing it. However, she did speak about this guy a lot, more than I was comfortable with.

I would find it TMI to hear how another person had hit on the person I was out on a date with.

[Mick17]

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I would find it TMI to hear how another person had hit on the person I was out on a date with.

To be fair, I recall opening up first about a previous interest of mine that didn’t work out this year, and she shared her story in turn. I don’t remember the context, but she appreciated how candid I was about my past and felt okay talking about her side.

It was a natural conversation and didn’t seem like she was fawning over the other guy. But he was/is still very much present in her life. 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Mick17 said:

To be fair, I recall opening up first about a previous interest of mine that didn’t work out this year, and she shared her story in turn. I don’t remember the context, but she appreciated how candid I was about my past and felt okay talking about her side.

It was a natural conversation and didn’t seem like she was fawning over the other guy. But he was/is still very much present in her life. 

To me it's a bad idea to overshare about exes like that especially on an early date.  She "appreciated" your decision to share this information but it's not the sort of appreciation that bodes well for future dates.

[Kwothe28]

ANY talk about some other guy is a red flag. Ex, friend, coworker etc. As that means those people are on her mind. Talking about some guy that wanted to date her and her to date him is a "Communist China" red flag. Still dont know how you thought that wouldnt be an issue. 

[Andrina]

On 11/5/2022 at 2:12 PM, Mick17 said:

To be fair, I recall opening up first about a previous interest of mine that didn’t work out this year, and she shared her story in turn

Wouldn't it have been more interesting to find out about the person sitting across the table from you than speaking about someone you'd had a crush on? Stick to safer topics.

There does come a point when a dating couple discusses, in general (if their smart) past relationship history. The reason for that is to assess if they are decent dating material, or to recognize red flags.  Such as if a person is capable of a longterm relationship if that's your goal, i.e, if a person is 50 years old and his or her longest relationship was 6 months. Or if the person admits to cheating on their last partner.

No going into detail. And who you had a crush on recently, and irrelevant experiences such as that, should never be mentioned.

Anyway, what's done is done. Just learn from your mistakes. 

[lostandhurt]

Sounds like she had this guy on a string knowing he is there when she wants him but was looking to see if there is anything better out there.  I  would guess she mentioned going on a few dates with you which caused this coworker to kick it in overdrive trying to seal the deal between them.

In the end you did great other than talking about an ex on a date.   Please don't do that again unless specifically asked and then keep it brief and take the high road always when speaking about ex's.

  Don't be surprised if you end up seeing her back on the dating site in a few months.  This guy is a coworker but once they are a couple things get real and sometimes messy.

Keep putting yourself out there

Lost