Husband's female manager does this... is it weird?

[Rose Mosse]

1 hour ago, Charlie1984 said:

@Seraphim  At this point I wish he would. But he has grown so much there and continues to grow so much because he has the GM as a mentor and I would never ask or insist that he give that up. Hi GM has been a blessing to him. 

Actually during a conversation about this topic I told him to seek guidence on boundries from his GM. His GM has a very demanding no nonsense wife so I know the advice would be great. No word yet if he sought it out yet...my gut says no. 

I’m not sure how you feel about your husband at this point. Are you still attracted to him? I ask genuinely as it would cause me to step back. I’d probably turn cold and be less responsive in the marriage. This isn’t your issue to deal with. Your husband has to work this out. If he doesn’t or can’t he may not be the man you thought he was.

[Charlie1984]

@Jamie425 I am actually choked up reading this and got misty eyed. Thank you so much. I dont think I am articulating myself correctly and I come across super insecure but truth is I am not. I just was looking for help in communicating to my husband why it's weird and tips to help us fix it. I know this woman and the intentions are not good. I also know my husband is too passive. But I am just a woman that has feelings and is trying her best to do right. Thank you for understanding that. 

[Seraphim]

Well, it isn’t your job to fix it. It is his. Whether you are a no BS woman means very little in this context. HE needs to be a no nonsense man but he isn’t stepping up to the plate . 

[Wiseman2]

25 minutes ago, Charlie1984 said:

I just was looking for help in communicating to my husband why it's weird and tips to help us fix it.

Have you spoken to him about it? Is it that the drives upset you or that he is not undermining the chain of command according to how you feel he should?

Why exactly does all this upset you? He's not cheating. It sounds like you resent that they have this "quality time" that you and your husband lack in general. The problem is your marriage. You don't respect your husband. 

It sounds like you unaddressed have marital problems and his manager is your scapegoat for that. That's she's some sort of evil woman. Have you ever met her? Have you ever invited her and her partner to dinner? 

[redswim30]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:10 PM, Charlie1984 said:

@Wiseman2

4 years, we have a great relationship. I trust him and knows hes uninterested in cheating. 

If this is true, then what's the problem?

If he's completely uninterested in cheating, she could literally be begging him to have sex with her and he would say no.   And if you trust him, then you TRUST him to say NO. 

You can dislike her as much as you want, your husband has free will.  If he's uninterested in cheating, then he won't, no matter what this woman says/does/flirts about, etc.  

Or you don't actually trust him to say no. But if that's the case, then the problem is with your husband, not with her. 

[Jamie425]

31 minutes ago, Charlie1984 said:

@Jamie425 I am actually choked up reading this and got misty eyed. Thank you so much. I dont think I am articulating myself correctly and I come across super insecure but truth is I am not. I just was looking for help in communicating to my husband why it's weird and tips to help us fix it. I know this woman and the intentions are not good. I also know my husband is too passive. But I am just a woman that has feelings and is trying her best to do right. Thank you for understanding that. 

Now I'm gonna cry! You're fine. She's the one who comes off as insecure. Desperate for positive male attention...and a predator. She probably wants to spend time with your husband because he's not giving her the attention she wants. (This is just a guess. Is he just a little dense when it comes to women? No idea when they're flirting with him?)

Furthermore, she's not a good boss. If she were, she would appreciate her employees have family, friends, and lives outside of work (Guessing she doesn't or not one she enjoys) and not take so much of their time unnecessarily. Any spouse would feel the same.

His boss is, as we say down South, wrong up oneside and down the other. Stick to your guns.

[Charlie1984]

@Jamie425 Again, your kindness is having a very soul nurishing and warmhearted affect on me. To be told I am the problem or that my marriage is not happy or anything else so negative is damaging at the moment cause I have such a saddness and uneasiness about me. Your kindness and compassion is needed right now and I appriciate it so much. Seems like the plucking of time is becoming more frequent and I never know when its going to happen and it's so heavy on my heart. I didn't jump on here to talk about something that happens once in a while. It's an issue. No matter who is contributing to it, it's still happening to me and I feel helpless. So the last thing I was to read is mean things. Thank you kind hearted Jamie. 

[lostandhurt]

I have a simple question.

If she was a man would you be here asking these questions?

I just want to know, or more importantly want you to know what part of this whole thing is really bothering you.

I am not judging you because you are well within your rights to feel any way you want to about this person engineering ways to spend time with your husband.

 Lost

[Wiseman2]

On 7/22/2022 at 1:14 PM, Charlie1984 said:

@Rose Mosse. I think he has to be firmer and is being too passive. He doesn't hesitate to give the CEO, General Manager or Owners the business but seems to have a "yes boss" attitide with her. . 

He doesn't seem all that passive if he stands up to you and does his job as he sees fit, rather than allow a jealous wife to call the shots.

Rather than try to micromanage him and his workplace situation or get this hateful about this manager, figure out why you're so jealous if you claim he's trustworthy.

You're marriage is not as perfect as you claim if you are already having issues just 4 years in.

[MissCanuck]

11 hours ago, Charlie1984 said:

@MissCanuck I think because he is unsure how to handle it,

Is he unsure, though?

Or he just isn't handling it the way you want? Again, I don't see the GM's situation (or his advice) as particularly useful here because setting boundaries with a spouse is not at all the same as setting professional boundaries in the workplace with a superior. And honestly, it's not your place to try to pilot this. 

If you don't trust you husband to be able to handle this appropriately, then something is amiss in your marriage. 

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, Jamie425 said:

 I think your husband should tell her he'd rather fly and meet her there because it's taking too much time away from MY WIFE he should tell her he will drive himself because you're uncomfortable with the amount of time spent alone together. 

It's doubtful that more nagging and micromanaging will be helpful. Should should should doesn't really solve problems.

No man is going to tell a superior that he can't do his job or go on business trips because it makes his wife too insecure suspicious and jealous. 

This manager and his workplace are not marriage counseling. However they may have a health plan that covers that. That would be the appropriate approach since there's obviously discord.

You can also see your physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health and discuss feeling "teary". Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support. You may get more insight into what is behind all this.

 

[redswim30]

7 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

Is he unsure, though?

Or he just isn't handling it the way you want? Again, I don't see the GM's situation (or his advice) as particularly useful here because setting boundaries with a spouse is not at all the same as setting professional boundaries in the workplace with a superior. And honestly, it's not your place to try to pilot this. 

If you don't trust you husband to be able to handle this appropriately, then something is amiss in your marriage. 

^^ THIS!  

Can I ask why you think she's even interested in your husband romantically?   Re-reading your posts, I'm not seeing evidence of that anywhere.  It sounds like she's just his friend and on friendly terms with him. If she really has crossed a line your husband is truly uncomfortable with, he could always report her to HR. (and sorry, I'm not buying the "she's harassed many other people at work but still has her job"- there's no way that's true if multiple people reported her for sexual harassment.  Most companies have a ZERO TOLERANCE sexual harassment policy. Their company would be getting lawsuits left and right if people reporting sexual harassment were fired.)   But honestly, I've been on business trips with co-workers.  It's not uncommon to share personal info. It's not uncommon to talk to co-workers you are friendly with outside of work. Sharing personal info isn't against the law or even inappropriate.  I don't really see anything she has done "wrong" here.  Your husband is always welcome to say he doesn't want to talk about personal things, and if she stops when he says that- there's no issue. 

If you don't want your husband taking a work call during your alone time, talk to your husband.  That has zero to do with her.  He's the one answering the phone. 

Perhaps she is an over-sharer.  Lonely. Disappointed in love. Has a failed marriage.  Flirts with a lot of men. So what?  That has zero to do with your marriage. Stop focusing on this woman and all you dislike about her, because it's just a deflection from the actual issue, which is your marriage. 

But the biggest question I have for you is this, that I think you really need to ask yourself.  

Why do you think your husband is interested in her?  If you don' think that, then there is no problem here.  She's his boss and his friend.  Maybe you don't like him having female friends? Maybe it triggers jealousy and insecurity in you?  But again, that's a marital issue.  She is not the problem.  It's just easier to focus your anger towards her than towards your husband or even yourself. 

The way you say "the devil never sleeps" makes it sound like you think it's inevitable that your husband is going to cheat on you or leave you.  This woman doesn't need to be his boss for him to cheat on you.  He could sleep with a complete stranger on these trips- and honestly that would be smarter than sleeping with his boss.  Why do you think him cheating on you is inevitable?  If you don't think that, then what are you so worried about?  

All you can do is talk to your husband and the issues bothering you.  Focusing on his female boss will not do either of you or your marriage any good. 

[reinventmyself]

19 hours ago, Charlie1984 said:

@Wiseman2 Everything you say is valid and correct. The thing is she crossed some sort of line with previous subordinates in the department...to the point they quit. I don't want my husband to be the next one cause aside from her crap, he has done well there. 

This part stood out to me and maybe paints a picture of how bad it is.  What type of company is this that HR isn't stepping in and correcting this?  As someone pointed out before there are sexual harassment laws in place.  I personally had to go through SH training every two years, that's how serious my employer viewed it.

Having said that, are you uncomfortable with him traveling with women all together?  Or just this one?  I had to often travel to satellite offices and spent late nights being the only female on site with men.  I traveled with my male boss and as I shared earlier, carpooled for several years with a married man.  Granted, everyone had appropriate boundaries.  Inappropriateness was never once even on my radar.

I know you realize you can't control her behavior.  You say you trust your husband.  I guess this comes down to letting go of trying to control this situation.  Let go of the idea that this woman will try to engage your husband in personal conversations, and he'll do nothing more than endure it.  Besides, she seems awfully thirsty and her actions are very unattractive.  

[Jamie425]

6 minutes ago, reinventmyself said:

This part stood out to me and maybe paints a picture of how bad it is.  What type of company is this that HR isn't stepping in and correcting this?  As someone pointed out before there are sexual harassment laws in place.  I personally had to go through SH training every two years, that's how serious my employer viewed it.

Having said that, are you uncomfortable with him traveling with women all together?  Or just this one?  I had to often travel to satellite offices and spent late nights being the only female on site with men.  I traveled with my male boss and as I shared earlier, carpooled for several years with a married man.  Granted, everyone had appropriate boundaries.  Inappropriateness was never once even on my radar.

I know you realize you can't control her behavior.  You say you trust your husband.  I guess this comes down to letting go of trying to control this situation.  Let go of the idea that this woman will try to engage your husband in personal conversations, and he'll do nothing more than endure it.  Besides, she seems awfully thirsty and her actions are very unattractive.  

I was in a similar situation. My mate's hours were so early that we only had a couple hours every night before he had to go to bed. I asked to be transferred to a center closer to my home. My bosses didn't want to lose me. So we made an arrangement. I'd come in earlier so I could leave earlier.

Ask your husband to tell his boss these road trips are taking too much time from his family. Period. Leave it to her to come up with the solution. That is not nagging (And I've seen no evidence that you've nagged in the first place. Sounds like you've been very patient and understanding). Nor is it unreasonable.

The boss lady insisting on driving when flying is an option without explanation is unreasonable. It is also poor management: a waste of time and showing a complete lack of consideration for his life outside of work.

[Jamie425]

16 hours ago, Charlie1984 said:

@Jamie425 Again, your kindness is having a very soul nurishing and warmhearted affect on me. To be told I am the problem or that my marriage is not happy or anything else so negative is damaging at the moment cause I have such a saddness and uneasiness about me. Your kindness and compassion is needed right now and I appriciate it so much. Seems like the plucking of time is becoming more frequent and I never know when its going to happen and it's so heavy on my heart. I didn't jump on here to talk about something that happens once in a while. It's an issue. No matter who is contributing to it, it's still happening to me and I feel helpless. So the last thing I was to read is mean things. Thank you kind hearted Jamie. 

I meant to respond to you but responded to reinvent myself instead. Read my response there 

[Charlie1984]

@Jamie425 Update: Husband and I had a good heart to heart last night. Throughout the day I had given a lot of thought as to how I wanted to effectively and directly articulate myself in order to keep things calm, on track and not let it drag out longer. I think I did very well at letting him know that I was not on board with him spending and extended periods of time in which no actual work is being done (i.e. long car trips). I am fine with quick travel via plane because if he has to get there, he has to get there of course. I am ok with them grabbing meals together while traveling (lunches at the office as usual also) because they do have to eat I am sure on the way back to hotel it just makes sense to eat. I did go as far as to say "keep it limited to grabbing a bite to eat" meaning no special outings in which freshening up and nicer clothes are worn. None of that. Keep it business as much as possible. The great part of this all was he never once questioned why all this came about cause he knows her history. He agreed to the boundaries I would like set, didn't seem put off by them and said he appreciated me still being willing to go to dinners with her and her husband (I know there is a bureaucracy to these dinners). So I am happy how it went but still need to see these boundaries in action. I know he doesn’t take calls from her after 7:30 anymore, so that is good and a step in the right direction. She called a couple times while we were on vacation, specifically on the morning of our anniversary a couple weeks ago on 7/15. I wasn’t happy cause she knows that’s our anniversary but still called with some trivial things as it to prove a point. Point here being, things change all the time and I know she wont be his manager forever. That woman seems to be gathering rope, so lets see if in fact she does hang herself at that company. Thank you so much again, for your compassion and concern. It really helped me so much and I am truly grateful.

[MissCanuck]

You really don't seem to trust your husband. 

 

[Batya33]

So what happens if he finds out before a plane flight that the plane might be delayed several hours and they're already at the airport.  According to your conditions is he then supposed to come home because it's no longer quick? Is it ok then if they decide to drive instead of fly? What if he feels like having a nice, relaxed sit down meal -is he supposed to tell her he's not available while on a business trip for lunch? And eat by himself?

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, Charlie1984 said:

@Jamie425 . I did go as far as to say "keep it limited to grabbing a bite to eat" 

How, exactly, are you going to enforce your rules? Unfortunately it sounds like a lecture to a school child as to what is allowed and what isn't. 

[reinventmyself]

Yah . .as much as I empathize with her discomfort over the inappropriate female, she isn't the first and won't be the last.  Keeping the husband on the driveway isn't the way to go about it.

Trusting he knows how to handle himself should be her focus.  Though he may very well be passive when it comes to speaking up, I'll assume he isn't a sheep that is easily coerced and can't think for himself.

In this instance I would share my discomfort with the whole situation so it's out in the open.  But the list of rules and conditions on how a grown man should handle himself goes a little past setting a boundary.  Besides, if he wanted to cheat, he will.  Simple work meal or not.  

This is just one of the those moments that calls for a having little faith in her man.  I'd be perfectly annoyed if my husband gave me a list of rules on how I needed to handle this situation.  As if I didn't already know better.

[Jaunty]

On 7/22/2022 at 10:25 AM, Charlie1984 said:

He said he quickly changed the subject. Husband: boundies Her: not a single boundry. 

He doesn't enforce boundaries.  Otherwise he would stop taking calls from her after work hours, fly instead of drive (you have said that he flies with other colleagues so I believe it's an option),  steer all conversations away from anything blatantly sexual.  I'm not quite sure what you mean by "getting inappropriate" - that can cover a lot of territory - but if it's truly bad, it might be actually harassment.

As for you - IMO you need to detach from this whole situation.  Your husband has some messy stuff going on at work but overall, you say that he's a great husband and your relationship is healthy.   His boss's relationship doesn't need to be any of your concern.  What she says, how she acts,  to others - not your problem.  If you feel uncomfortable about how he interacts with her, you need to take this up with HIM.   Yes, it's in your realm if she's calling and interrupting your personal time at home.  Ask your husband to put the kibosh on that.   

 

[Jamie425]

On 7/28/2022 at 2:06 PM, Charlie1984 said:

@Jamie425 Update: Husband and I had a good heart to heart last night. Throughout the day I had given a lot of thought as to how I wanted to effectively and directly articulate myself in order to keep things calm, on track and not let it drag out longer. I think I did very well at letting him know that I was not on board with him spending and extended periods of time in which no actual work is being done (i.e. long car trips). I am fine with quick travel via plane because if he has to get there, he has to get there of course. I am ok with them grabbing meals together while traveling (lunches at the office as usual also) because they do have to eat I am sure on the way back to hotel it just makes sense to eat. I did go as far as to say "keep it limited to grabbing a bite to eat" meaning no special outings in which freshening up and nicer clothes are worn. None of that. Keep it business as much as possible. The great part of this all was he never once questioned why all this came about cause he knows her history. He agreed to the boundaries I would like set, didn't seem put off by them and said he appreciated me still being willing to go to dinners with her and her husband (I know there is a bureaucracy to these dinners). So I am happy how it went but still need to see these boundaries in action. I know he doesn’t take calls from her after 7:30 anymore, so that is good and a step in the right direction. She called a couple times while we were on vacation, specifically on the morning of our anniversary a couple weeks ago on 7/15. I wasn’t happy cause she knows that’s our anniversary but still called with some trivial things as it to prove a point. Point here being, things change all the time and I know she wont be his manager forever. That woman seems to be gathering rope, so lets see if in fact she does hang herself at that company. Thank you so much again, for your compassion and concern. It really helped me so much and I am truly grateful.

I'm so glad. I don't know why people think you're Insecure or don't trust your husband.  This is unnecessary time taken from your family. And no spouse would want his or mate alone with an attractive, flirtatious person alone for that amount of time, especially when flying is an option. It doesn't make sense. Your husband probably realized he'd feel the same way. Good for you!

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, Jamie425 said:

I'm so glad. I don't know why people think you're Insecure or don't trust your husband.  This is unnecessary time taken from your family. And no spouse would want his or mate alone with an attractive, flirtatious person alone for that amount of time, especially when flying is an option. It doesn't make sense. Your husband probably realized he'd feel the same way. Good for you!

I know of many many jobs which are not traditional hours, which require lots of travel and lots of unpredictable late nights and weekends and calls during that time.  It sounds like that is more like the job/career he has so if he starts limiting evening phone calls about work and starts insisting on grabbing fast food that could hurt his career -if he wants this career.  If he wants a traditional 9 to 5 job where his evenings and weekends are off limits he can pursue that.  But he hasn't.  If she is attractive that's irrelevant -many coworkers and bosses are.  If she is flirtatious or inappropriate he can report that to HR or deal with it within his office or qiut, etc. 

My husband travels constantly for work and always has/always will.  I'm sure he has long dinners alone with people -men, women, whatever - and lunches and conference calls and on and on.  It's his career.  It's what's required in his career if you want to excel and be successful. 

There was one coworker who I felt was calling too much at night and for my own reasons I wouldn't put it past her to try to cross lines - I expressed that to my husband and he assured me all was fine.  It became a moot point as she stopped doing that. 

I trusted him so it was never a big deal just annoying because it would often be at or around our son's bedtime.  But yes issues come up at all times of day and night in certain careers (including my own) and it's not a 9 to 5 thing where you don't bring work home/deal with work issues that arise from home. 

I got an email the other day at 7am from my boss who is on a family vacation.  I responded before 8.  And I'm only part time.  But in our line of work things come up and there are few "personal" boundaries.  

I agree with the others that she is crossing lines by telling him how long he can take to eat lunch, etc. 

[MissCanuck]

7 hours ago, Jamie425 said:

I don't know why people think you're Insecure or don't trust your husband. 

Because rules like this suggest she perceives this other woman as a threat, and doesn't trust her husband to maintain appropriate boundaries on his own: 

On 7/28/2022 at 9:06 PM, Charlie1984 said:

I did go as far as to say "keep it limited to grabbing a bite to eat" meaning no special outings in which freshening up and nicer clothes are worn. None of that.

If she trusted him, she wouldn't need to spell this out. She would feel confident that he wouldn't give off signals that he's somehow trying to impress his manager. No need for rules like the above. 

So while this other women is a nusiance, I also see that OP doesn't feel secure that her husband will preserve the integrity of their marriage. That is a husband problem, not an annoying-manager problem. 

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, Jamie425 said:

This is unnecessary time taken from your family. And no spouse would want his or mate alone with an attractive, flirtatious person alone.

Making a living, including business trips, is not "unnessary time".  A spouse can not dictate the corporate culture or policies. If only CEOs have the allocated budget to fly, that's how it is. 

The more he's nagged about ridiculous rules at work, on business travel, the more she's eroding the marriage. Couples rules such as not taking calls on vacation are fine.

If people want to cheat, they will. Whether they fly, drive, eat at fast food places or restaurants.

This latest lecture on silly rules does nothing but confirm how jealous she is and how the real issue is she doesn't trust him.