I swear my ex is a flippin' psychic...

[Lambert]

14 hours ago, Cynder said:

Say there is someone who's a heavy smoker... and they decide they want to work toward quitting.  And over time they go from smoking three packs a day to three cigarettes a day.  And then someone comes along and says, "Well, you haven't quit all the way yet, so you must not care about lung cancer and you must want to die early." 

This black and white way of thinking doesn't really work in these situations.  I didn't block her so therefore any other effort I've made is moot. It doesn't work that way. 

I know this post specifically doesn't say that.  But your other post did have some of that mentality. 

I really am trying to protect myself.  I won't let her drag me back down to her level.  But at the same time she needs to realize what she did. 

Black and white thinking when someone repeatedly abuses you, is exactly what works. 

 

[Cynder]

9 hours ago, arjumand said:

Agreed. The desire to have those who act badly and hurt us recognize their behavior is natural, but unrealistic. Your ex is deeply troubled and has never before recognized her behavior, why would she now? 

You only get one life and continuing to put energy and thought into someone who doesn’t deserve you—and by responding to her and keeping in touch—you are not using your time to make yourself happy. 

BTW, it may help to remember this desire for ‘realization’ happens in all kinds of relationships but very rarely happens. Did your parents hear you or realize their bad behavior? Probably not. You have realize that closure comes from you and that the stronger and better you feel about yourself the less you will allow those who treat you poorly into your life — which will give you time and space for higher-quality people. 

See, this is interesting because in my experience it almost always happens.  My dad was a POS who hated me and blamed everything that ever went wrong in his life from his late 20s on on me.  I mean, this man literally thought I was evil.  He is the only person I can think of who never really had a moment of clarity and realized what a jerk he was.  He drank himself to death.  He died at 51.  And I'm sure when he was in the hospital on his death bed he thought that was my fault too. 

My Mom was the same way.  She could have had this great life and this awesome career as a nurse, but then I had to come along and ruin everything because you know, I insisted on  being conceived.  It had nothing to do with her decision to have unprotected sex at 17 with an older married man.  And I was told all through childhood how I ruined her life, etc.  But eventually she woke up and realized none of that was my fault and she owned her part in it.  She has done a lot to make it up to me.  I know nothing can ever reverse the damage but at least she tried. 

The person who sexually abused me had a huge crisis of conscience.  He was diagnosed with cancer which I'm sure was the catalyst for it.  But he took the time to sit down and write me a letter telling me how sorry he is, etc. 

My ex husband had an epiphany and decided to get help for his issues.  He went to anger management classes.  He got into therapy.  Him and I had this long conversation one night and he told me he was really trying to take responsibility for everything he did wrong.  And we ended up becoming friends.  And I know someone's going to read this and be like, "Well yea, but didn't he kill himself?"  He had a lot of demons to fight.  He was a really troubled man.  And personally I don't think he killed himself.  I think his death was an accident and his family just told everyone he killed himself because that was less embarrassing for them. 

I could go on here...  But pretty much everyone who has really wronged me in my life (except for my dad) has realized what they did and tried to make amends in some way.  Maybe I'm just really lucky when it comes to that, idk.  There is one ex of mine who really messed up my life for a while who hasn't had their moment yet.  But he will.  It hasn't even been ten years.  Some times it takes a while.

Karma is real. 

[Cynder]

11 hours ago, jazz_lover said:

Yeah I think "needing her to hear me" and "she needs to realize what she did" are bad reasons to stay in touch. It gives her a significance that as your ex she does not deserve. And even if she does hear you and realize what she did (and I am not sure she is capable of either) it will not give you the satisfaction or closure you are looking to achieve. 

This isn't about what she deserves.  This is about what I deserve. 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Cynder said:

This isn't about what she deserves.  This is about what I deserve. 

If you believe you deserve closure from your ex, or you deserve your ex to transform into a healthy person who also wants to be in a committed relationship with you I think those beliefs are highly unrealistic and therefore staying in touch to get what you "deserve" doesn't seem to make a lot of sense and has huge downsides.

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

If you believe you deserve closure from your ex, or you deserve your ex to transform into a healthy person who also wants to be in a committed relationship with you I think those beliefs are highly unrealistic and therefore staying in touch to get what you "deserve" doesn't seem to make a lot of sense and has huge downsides.

She's not capable of a committed relationship with anyone and she won't ever be unless she gets sober and gets some professional help. 

[Batya33]

36 minutes ago, Cynder said:

She's not capable of a committed relationship with anyone and she won't ever be unless she gets sober and gets some professional help. 

Right  - my point was you said you think you deserve something from her and I guess I assumed you meant "closure" or that you two get back together where the relationship would involve her as a stable individual.  Obviously she is in no shape now for a stable relationship with you. I am not a mental health professional so I don't know precisely what she would need but based on her interactions with you this person is not a person who is stable and other than offering her external resources (of which she is not aware -but it sounds like she is) I'd distance myself for safety purposes.

[Cynder]

6 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Right  - my point was you said you think you deserve something from her and I guess I assumed you meant "closure" or that you two get back together where the relationship would involve her as a stable individual.  Obviously she is in no shape now for a stable relationship with you. I am not a mental health professional so I don't know precisely what she would need but based on her interactions with you this person is not a person who is stable and other than offering her external resources (of which she is not aware -but it sounds like she is) I'd distance myself for safety purposes.

Well I think I deserve a chance to be heard.  That's all.  If she is finally willing to listen then I'm taking advantage of that.  Even if she hears everything I say and does nothing with it.  At least I was heard.  I know a lot of people don't think that makes sense or don't agree.  For me it's a big deal, though. 

[MissCanuck]

But at what point do you decide you've said your piece, have been heard, and let her go?

What else do you want her to hear? 

[DarkCh0c0]

6 hours ago, Cynder said:

She's not capable of a committed relationship with anyone and she won't ever be unless she gets sober and gets some professional help

Right. And it shouldn't matter to you anymore as she's your EX.

What if she never "realizes" those things? Will you just limit yourself all your life to that? Will you close all new and better opportunities?

You need to let her go and give yourself space. If it's meant to be, in years, she'll find a way back. But for now, you need to focus on healing and moving on to better things in life.

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, Cynder said:

Well I think I deserve a chance to be heard.  That's all.  If she is finally willing to listen then I'm taking advantage of that.  Even if she hears everything I say and does nothing with it.  At least I was heard.  I know a lot of people don't think that makes sense or don't agree.  For me it's a big deal, though. 

She's not in a position to be able to hear what you would like to tell her in any meaningful way. It's not about will.  She is a person with a significant mental impairment whether temporary or permanent - I am not a doctor or a healthcare professional and if what you described is accurate -especially about calling your work and the menstrual blood story - she is not a person who can hear what you or anyone says in any way remotely the way you described it.  Would you ask a person gasping for air to just "will herself" to take a proper deep breath or a person with a broken leg to will herself to run down the street on two feet?

It can be a huge deal to you of course -you're entitled to your feelings. The reality is she cannot hear you in the way you describe.  Haven't you ever told your nephew no you can't take him to Disney tomorrow even though he feels he deserves breakfast with Goofy and it's a huge deal to him to be able to hug Goofy just once?

[jazz_lover]

Agreed. And you will not feel heard so you will keep continuing to communicate with her in the hope that eventually you will be able to get through to her. And this could continue for months or years and the whole while you will continue to have this toxic person in your life. 

[Cynder]

So, an update...

Her and I had really emotional conversations on Sunday night and Monday night.  She told me she attempted suicide by alcohol poisoning twice after she left.  In other words she tried to drink herself to death in one sitting.  I told her about the night I checked myself into a hotel room with a bottle of whiskey and a bunch of pills, also.  (In case anyone is wondering, it was prescription sleeping pills and my antidepressants, nothing illegal.)  This was something we each had a hard time digesting.  After two nights of these conversations, by Tuesday afternoon I was emotionally drained and didn't think I could do it for a third night.  On Tuesday afternoon I sent her a message that said basically, "Hey, I know it's been hard talking about all this stuff.  We don't have to talk about anything serious today if you don't want to.  I forgot to ask how the apartment hunt went yesterday.  And I'm glad we cleared the air about Joe.  I have to eat and get ready for work, later."  This is paraphrased.  The actual message was a little more detailed. 

She read the message but didn't reply. 

Wednesday she messaged me and told me that message really upset her.  I wrote back and said there was nothing mean or upsetting in that message.  Why are you upset?

She said "I'm at work.  I just need time." 

So I said, "Well do you want to talk about it later?  It's ok if no."

She said, "Stop pushing."  

I said, "I'm not pushing."  

The 20 minutes go bye where I don't say anything and she says, "I told you I don't want to talk right now so stop pushing me."   

Ok... I'm being gaslit at this point.  I wasn't pushing her to talk about anything.  I asked if she wanted to talk later and said fine if she doesn't.  I was quiet for 20 minutes and she's still saying I'm "pushing."  So I just texted back and said, "Noted."  Because I thought anything I said would be considered pushing, and if I didn't reply then she would get mad at me for ignoring her.  She said, "There are a lot of bad things happening in my life right now." 

I said, "I'm sorry there are bad things happening right now and I'm sorry I upset you." 

Several hours later in the middle of the night (I work at night, and she is usually up all night) I wrote a message that said, "If you need to talk to someone about the bad things going on right now I am always here for you as a friend.  I won't bring up anything from our past anymore unless you ask to talk about it.  I hope you're having a good night." 

No response, as expected.  Then I woke up the next day and I was blocked. 

It's like she has this whole fantasy built up around how everything is supposed to happen... and the second it doesn't happen exactly the way she wants, she just removes herself from the equation.  I don't think I pushed her at all and I don't think she had a damn thing to be upset about. 

And I'm not stupid, I know I just need to block her and wash my hands of the whole situation.  I just am not ready to do that yet.  It's like telling a smoker over and over again how bad it is for them and that they will get cancer if they don't stop.  People who smoke aren't stupid.  They know it's bad.  But no one ever quits until they are truly ready to quit.  (And this is coming from an ex smoker... been smoke free 11 years.) 

I wanted to be heard, and now I feel heard.  I'm not devastated that she blocked me.  I knew it was coming because she does this every couple months.  She probably wants me to call her and beg her forgiveness or come into her work and beg her forgiveness.  I won't do that.  I didn't do anything that I need forgiven for. 

[MissCanuck]

What advice are you looking for? 

[Batya33]

Since it sounds like she attempted suicide recently perhaps notify -if you can safely-someone who can step in and make sure she is not successful.  

[Cynder]

10 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

What advice are you looking for? 

None really.  I just felt like posting an update. 

[bluecastle]

14 hours ago, Cynder said:

I know I just need to block her and wash my hands of the whole situation.  I just am not ready to do that yet.  It's like telling a smoker over and over again how bad it is for them and that they will get cancer if they don't stop.  People who smoke aren't stupid.  They know it's bad.  But no one ever quits until they are truly ready to quit.

I'm going to pick apart this analogy a bit, if you'll humor me, in hopes of offering some words that may be useful to you. 

The reason the smoker doesn't quit is simple: smoking is very, very pleasurable. When you're stressed, it calms you down. When you're tired, it wakes you up. The danger is maybe part of the appeal, sure, to say nothing of the addictive qualities if nicotine. But all in all? The act of smoking is pretty soothing, lovely, and that immediate, tangible pleasure is hard to let go of to prevent something (cancer, death, whatever) that is still abstract.  

These exchanges you're opting into with your ex? They sound pretty agonizing, not quite the release one gets from ducking out for a smoke. Still, my question to you is: what is the pleasure you are getting from them? I think that's worth exploring, owing, and isolating. If you can see what that is, without judgement, self-recrimination, or her-recrimination, you may find that you assign less power to her and have an easier time moving on so you can find  a version of connection (with yourself, with others) that delivers what you're looking for in a less turbulent form. 

[Cynder]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Since it sounds like she attempted suicide recently perhaps notify -if you can safely-someone who can step in and make sure she is not successful.  

I thought about it.  I am still friends with her Mom and her sister on Facebook. 

Her Mom was one of the few people who actually comforted me right after she left.  Most of our friends took her side.  Her Mom called me and listened to me cry my eyes out on the phone for 20 minutes.  She told me she just didn't understand why this happened because I made her daughter so happy. 

Then of course the next day I get a furious message from my ex along the lines of "How dare you talk about me to my family!?  You better not ever do that again!"  

And then a few months later her Mom messaged me out of nowhere and told me she knows I'm having a really hard time, and then she said, "I'm not supposed to talk about certain situations with you, but trust me, you're better off without a certain person in your life."  

It's pretty bad when even her own mother says that.  

But, I've thought about messaging her Mom and basically being like, "Hey... you didn't hear this from me, but a certain person I'm not supposed to talk about really needs some help."  

I feel like nothing good will come of it.  But I also would feel awful if she tried again and succeeded.  According to her this was back when she first left me in August.  I don't know if 9 months ago is recent in terms of suicide attempts.  I know that probably sounds really stupid on my part.  But someone attempting suicide 9 months ago doesn't seem as worrying as someone doing it 9 days ago, etc.  I'm not saying it's not valid or cause for concern because it was 9 months ago.  I'm just saying I don't know if she still feels that way.

Interesting side note... I was talking to my own mother about all this.  And I told her that my ex was suicidal the same time I was.  And her response was "You WERE NOT suicidal.  Stop being dramatic."  I told her "Just because I didn't do it doesn't mean I didn't want to."   It's messed up that talking about those feelings gets someone labeled as dramatic.  

[Cynder]

5 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

I'm going to pick apart this analogy a bit, if you'll humor me, in hopes of offering some words that may be useful to you. 

The reason the smoker doesn't quit is simple: smoking is very, very pleasurable. When you're stressed, it calms you down. When you're tired, it wakes you up. The danger is maybe part of the appeal, sure, to say nothing of the addictive qualities if nicotine. But all in all? The act of smoking is pretty soothing, lovely, and that immediate, tangible pleasure is hard to let go of to prevent something (cancer, death, whatever) that is still abstract.  

These exchanges you're opting into with your ex? They sound pretty agonizing, not quite the release one gets from ducking out for a smoke. Still, my question to you is: what is the pleasure you are getting from them? I think that's worth exploring, owing, and isolating. If you can see what that is, without judgement, self-recrimination, or her-recrimination, you may find that you assign less power to her and have an easier time moving on so you can find  a version of connection (with yourself, with others) that delivers what you're looking for in a less turbulent form. 

I used to be a smoker, maybe you missed that, lol.  I'm well aware of how pleasurable it is.  And nicotine is one of the most addictive substances in the world.  You can tell a smoker all day long how bad it is for them.  All you're doing is annoying them.  You would have to be living under a rock for the past 40 years or so to be completely oblivious to the dangers of tobacco. 

I guess the pleasure I get from interacting with her is finally having my time to be heard.  Like the thing about our friend Joe.  There were two friends of ours who really thought it was fun to play us off each other.  Joe was one of them.  And Monday night we talked all about the Joe situation.  It felt good to finally talk that out and hear her side of it and have her hear my side. 

My cat died two weeks after she left.  I texted her and said, "Hey, I just want to tell you that *cat's name* passed away today.  I know you were attached to her and so I thought you had a right to know."  She sent me back a whole bunch of angry texts cussing me out and telling me what a POS I am and how disappointed she is in me.

And the other night when we both were talking about how hard things were back in August... I told her so many things happened to me all at once.  She left.  I lost my high paying job that I had been at 11 years.  I was dealing with a cancer scare.  And the cat died.  She said she had no idea the cat died and that's she's really sorry and that she really loved the cat.  I told her "I texted you and told you and you told me what a POS I am and that you're disappointed in me and you called me every name in the book."  She used being drunk as an excuse.  And she seemed to genuinely feel bad.  So, maybe that will plant a seed.  Maybe she wills tart to realize the trouble her drinking is causing. I don't know if pleasure is the right word, but knowing she might actually start seeing that she has a problem makes me feel like the conversation was worth something.  

[catfeeder]

16 hours ago, Cynder said:

I wanted to be heard, and now I feel heard.  I'm not devastated that she blocked me.  I knew it was coming because she does this every couple months.  She probably wants me to call her and beg her forgiveness or come into her work and beg her forgiveness.  I won't do that.  I didn't do anything that I need forgiven for. 

Good, mission accomplished. She played the same old song, you did the same old dance. You get to decide exactly how upset and disrupted you'll want to be about that, or when it's become a big enough yawn for you.

This time I'd remind myself that you're dealing with someone who would crank call you about smearing menstrual blood on tiles, and I'd try to figure out what possible 'good' can come from that.

Decide whether you're romanticizing drama, and whether you want to keep habits that depress you needlessly--and if not, choose the behaviors you want to change.

You were doing so well, and you can step right back onto that road forward if you choose.

I hope you'll reach for your best resilience, and make yourself proud.

[Kwothe28]

I wanted to ask: Do you know any smoker that quited by just cutting the ratio every day or week? Meaning to just smoke 2 packs today, next week 15 cigs, next week 10 cigs etc. Because, I dont.

Reason I am pulling this analogy is that, its the same with you answering her. You are trying to get some kind of apology from her. You wont get that. Ever. You will get excuses. How you told her she is pretty and she didnt believed you, how she drank because of you etc. 

Only thing it will get all this to stop is to block her compeletely. Right here, right now. Told you that around 6 months ago, will tell you same now. Block her. And continue with your life. You wont get what you want from her. And it affects you dearly.

[Andrina]

Something you could do is to read some books and articles on positive self-talk, to eventually overwrite the negative reels that have been imbedded in your mind since childhood. I know reading one such book helped me to practice positive self-talk, which in turn, changed my moods to more healthy ones. 

Such as now that she blocked you, you can put a positive spin on it and say, "She did me a favor so I didn't have to make that hard decision." Think about how that statement makes you feel versus anything negative you could say on the matter.

It takes a lot of practice, plus redirecting one's mind, but the brain can be trained to perform the way you want it to. 

Another example is if you think, "Why did she ever come into my life? She crushed my spirit." Instead, you could think, "My experience with her made me learn important things about myself--things that will help me make better choices in a partner in the future."

I was in a toxic relationship for a year, because my self-worth wasn't as good as I thought it was. I even wanted him back right after he broke up with me, though he caused me to get stress-related hives twice during the relationship. After three months of no contact, I was finally able to tell myself he did me a favor by breaking up with me. And then when I did meet someone who was actually great for me, I appreciated my new partner that much more. 

As they say, sometimes people only stay in your life for a season to teach you something.

Take care.

[Cynder]

3 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

I wanted to ask: Do you know any smoker that quited by just cutting the ratio every day or week? Meaning to just smoke 2 packs today, next week 15 cigs, next week 10 cigs etc. Because, I dont.

Reason I am pulling this analogy is that, its the same with you answering her. You are trying to get some kind of apology from her. You wont get that. Ever. You will get excuses. How you told her she is pretty and she didnt believed you, how she drank because of you etc. 

Only thing it will get all this to stop is to block her compeletely. Right here, right now. Told you that around 6 months ago, will tell you same now. Block her. And continue with your life. You wont get what you want from her. And it affects you dearly.

Lmao... are you referring to the thread where you misgendered me all throughout the thread and then told me I have no spine while patting yourself on the back for having the guts to say what everyone else wouldn't say?  Because you actually didn't tell me to block her.  And that thread wasn't 6 months ago btw.  Oh and you also defended my Mom for insisting on calling my ex He when she identifies as female.  And then you patted yourself on the back once again for having so many guts and saying what no one else will say. 

You must be missing that I actually did get what I wanted. 

[Cynder]

22 minutes ago, Andrina said:

Something you could do is to read some books and articles on positive self-talk, to eventually overwrite the negative reels that have been imbedded in your mind since childhood. I know reading one such book helped me to practice positive self-talk, which in turn, changed my moods to more healthy ones. 

Such as now that she blocked you, you can put a positive spin on it and say, "She did me a favor so I didn't have to make that hard decision." Think about how that statement makes you feel versus anything negative you could say on the matter.

It takes a lot of practice, plus redirecting one's mind, but the brain can be trained to perform the way you want it to. 

Another example is if you think, "Why did she ever come into my life? She crushed my spirit." Instead, you could think, "My experience with her made me learn important things about myself--things that will help me make better choices in a partner in the future."

I was in a toxic relationship for a year, because my self-worth wasn't as good as I thought it was. I even wanted him back right after he broke up with me, though he caused me to get stress-related hives twice during the relationship. After three months of no contact, I was finally able to tell myself he did me a favor by breaking up with me. And then when I did meet someone who was actually great for me, I appreciated my new partner that much more. 

As they say, sometimes people only stay in your life for a season to teach you something.

Take care.

I pretty much am seeing it that way.  I'm not upset that she blocked me.  I said my peace.  She knows the impact her actions had on my life.  She can go deal with that however she sees fit. 

[mylolita]

8 hours ago, Cynder said:

Lmao... are you referring to the thread where you misgendered me all throughout the thread and then told me I have no spine while patting yourself on the back for having the guts to say what everyone else wouldn't say?  Because you actually didn't tell me to block her.  And that thread wasn't 6 months ago btw.  Oh and you also defended my Mom for insisting on calling my ex He when she identifies as female.  And then you patted yourself on the back once again for having so many guts and saying what no one else will say. 

You must be missing that I actually did get what I wanted. 

Wait I am so confused Cynder!

 

I have been following this thread, the advice has been great from a stander by’s point of view!

 

Are you a boy? I presumed you were female? And your ex is a transsexual? 
 

I guess it doesn’t matter, I am just confused here!

[MissCanuck]

9 hours ago, Cynder said:

I pretty much am seeing it that way.  I'm not upset that she blocked me.  I said my peace.  She knows the impact her actions had on my life.  She can go deal with that however she sees fit. 

So now that you have done so, are you going to continue to respond to her if she contacts you again?